
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 11 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2147



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What is virus ?
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2135
IG: Naval Arch. Manual and Imp. Squarons.
Re: Bridge Ejection Plug (Help)
Re: Red Tape
Roving Gearheads -- ARRGH!
Re:  Re: Short Nap (was Virus)
Hard currency
Re: Subject: Re: What is virus ?
Re: Technological conservatism.
Re: Technological Conservatism
two programs (a mapper & a language aid)
Re: Spofustuff
Fwd: Traveller Writer's list
Re: Veiled threats and all of that turned to ObTraveller (Re:  MST3K and Leroy and Douglas)
Re: Fwd: Traveller Writer's list
KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:57:42 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: What is virus ?

>Speaking of future computer technology, did anyone see the article in New
>Scientist (15/11/97) on the work to 'evolve' rather than design chips? Any
>thoughts on how it will effect technology?

In a similar vein, there was this guy who wrote computer code to do
"something" and he decided he wanted to make it smaller.  What the code
actually did is unimportant.  
So this guy wrote crazy software and turned the code into "artificial life"
with certain rules.  After a certain amount of time the code would "die" they
could mate and produce offspring, and the offspring would have a chance of
random mutation.  The mutation would make the code smaller.  The code would
"die" quickly if it didn't do what the original code did.

What eventually happened was, after many iterations, the code became ultra
teeny, but still did what it was programmed to do.  He sponsored a contest on
the internet and alot of people tried to write a program that did the same
thing, only smaller, and nobody came close.

This is in the book _Out of Control_.  I forget the author's name off the top
of my head, but it is a fantastic book.  I can get the name of the author if
anyone would like.  The book deals with artificial life and robotics and
various things like that.  Very good read.

I think evolving chips is fantastic, and I think it could make the computer
industry grow even faster then it is now (what, my computer will be obselete
even quicker? :).

As I've stated in another message, I think that Traveller tech is highly
conservative in alot of respects.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:50:35 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: "Valerian J. Vortex" <s321874@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2135

On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Traveller-digest wrote:

> This sounds _great_ for story purposes but given the lower population
> and Tech Levels how can the Sword Worlds be a serious threat to the
> sector (much less to the Imperium) ?
> 
> The fact that that they "have a strong cultural identity.  They have a
> strong sense of manifest destiny." may help to explain why they are
> trying this but does not explain why they would have a chance of
> success.  Israel in the 50's was outnumbered but it had IMHO a higher
> military tech level than its neighbors, or at least it had equipment of
> (possibly fractionally) higher tech level that it had received from the
> USA.  Do you have the Zhodhani funneling arms into the Sword Worlds ?
> Given that the counselate is TL 14 and has TL 13 reserve forces (source
> 5thFW) it seems unlikely that it could/would be giving arms transfers of
> better than TL 12-13.  This is a step up from the Sword Worlds native
> military tech level of 10 - 12, but is it enough improvement to threaten
> the area ?

<snip>

> It looks as if the Sword Worlds have 14 billion (1x10^9) people at TL
> 12, 200 million at TL 11, and 20.6 billion at TL 10.  All their
> important planets have military bases.

IIRC, this puts them in a better position than the Solomani were when they
first encountered the Vilani.

"Don't annoy a little man - he might kill you."  Anon.

Ken Barns,
ex-Medical Student and Connoisseur of Life.

=============================================================

       "Life's tough...  SO WHAT??" - Angry Anderson
   
=============================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:05:16 EST
From: Ghan II <GhanII@aol.com>
Subject: IG: Naval Arch. Manual and Imp. Squarons.

     Just a note,
     Naval Architect's Manual and Imperial Squadrons were in my mail today. It
looks like IG decided to save money on postage by shipping them together.
      Bye,  Doug Snyder

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:23:18 EST
From: Dralasite <Dralasite@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bridge Ejection Plug (Help)

  Greetings All.  I think the Bridge Ejection Plug sounds.  Has anyone seen
the movie, "Event Horizon"?  It had a similar concept, just on a larger scale.
The ship was long with a large front and rear sections.  These sections were
connected by a long skinny section to seperate the bridge from the main
drive components.  Explosive charges were placed along the long skinny
section in the event of reason to seperate the front section from the rest.
Probably since they were using a new experimental jump or space folding 
drive.  Schoon, if you design something send it my way.  I'd love to see it
and use it in my campaign.
                                        Thanks,
                                      Ken(Dralasite@aol.com)   

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 20:24:49 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Red Tape

>Once docked, there must be more red tape, inspections, paperwork
>(electronic, I'd assume), and fees.  Any info on this as well?

  Does anyone have the old magazine (probably White Dwarf,
possibly Space Gamer) which spoofed the paperwork a ship
in Traveller needed to land and unload? It may have been
an April issue, but it would still be a joy to read again.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 04:24:36 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Roving Gearheads -- ARRGH!

On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:11:52 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:42:08 EST
>From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: FF&S-TNE and presentation (was Re: Virus--This...)
>
>However, Mr.McGregor seems to have a burning hatred for FF&S for other
>reasons.  He has been bitter about it for at least the six or seven months
>I've been around.  Dunno.  Maybe his kids were carried off by roving gearheads
>to be part of their dark ceremonies with mechanical pencils and scientific
>calculators :)

So *THAT'S* why the kids have been missing! (And I thought it was because I
didn't have any -- obviously the evil gearheads have used their mind-clouding
abilities to remove my memories of them!)

Actually, I have nothing against Scientific Calculators (I actually own a
moderately good one, a Sharp EL-5120 programmable -- I just objected to the
stupidly overly (and needlessly) complex system of FF&S which, when used to
attempt to reverse engineer real world designs, simply didn't come close most of
the time. GURPS Vehicles had a similar problem, but was so much simpler to use
that it could be worked around -- GV2 has removed that problem, but made the
system too complex to be usable.

The system I use now? Well, I use BTRC's VDS (Vehicle Design System), which is a
little beauty ... sure, you need a scientific calculator to use it, but it is
really not all that much more complex than "High Guard" when you boil it down.
And, best of all, the design sequence flows smoothly and logically -- *and* you
*can* reverse engineer vehicles using the system and get accurate (or close to)
real world results!

Actually, I didn't say anything else that you commented on -- so blame the
originator of those other comments, not *me*!

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:12:14 EST
From: StevenA197 <StevenA197@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: Short Nap (was Virus)

In a message dated 12/3/97 8:51:49 PM, Dedly@AOL.COM wrote:

>If you wanted to turn me into a hamster via hamster
>DNA then you would have to use a proper means of transmitting that sort of
>information.



Squeek!  Squeek!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:32:03 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Hard currency

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD00F3.E85242C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>>On an unrelated topic:  is there any good reason why the Imperium has
>>physical currency?  Why would electronic funds transfers NOT be
>>universal?  Is this simply an artifact of the age of the Traveller =
game?

>Hard currency is good for business.  Seriously, there is, in every =
culture,
>an 'underground economy' in illegal, unlawful, or simply unacceptable =
goods
>and the Imperium has an interest in keeping this trade alive.  If its =
not
>done with Imperial currency it will be done with some other form of =
trade.

>I've blabbed enough now, I'll let others answer your last question.

I believe that Hard currency is necessary in a traveller universe for =
the simple reason of communication. In todays world, money can be =
transferred electronically between accounts, credit cards and such. A =
"cash card" is all one really needs these days to purchase something. =
But, in the traveller universe it would be impossible to maintain =
interstellar bank accounts. For example, If I was on Agidda/Sol-Rim and =
I wanted to access my account on Terra/Sol-Rim, I would have to wait 2 =
weeks to get my money. 1 week to jump to Terra to verify funds and =
transfer them to Agidda.=20
What may work (and what I use in my current game) is similar to a cash =
card. Instead of the card accessing an account, the data is physically =
stored on the card. These cash cards could be used at virtually any A or =
B class starports, high tech worlds, and portable money transfer =
machines. Money could be transferred electronically in-system, between =
ships or to a starport for example.=20
Hard cash would still be necessary for areas that don't except or have =
the ability to accept cash cards.=20
One disadvantage to this "cash card" system is that it would lead to =
tampering. Some one may be able to "hack" into the card and increase the =
amount of money it contains.=20
A study was done on these kinds of cards recently and it was decided =
that it was easier to counterfeit paper money than to hack into a card.=20


- ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD00F3.E85242C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&gt;&gt;On an unrelated topic:&nbsp; is there any good reason why =
the=20
Imperium has<BR>&gt;&gt;physical currency?&nbsp; Why would electronic =
funds=20
transfers NOT be<BR>&gt;&gt;universal?&nbsp; Is this simply an artifact =
of the=20
age of the Traveller game?<BR><BR>&gt;Hard currency is good for =
business.&nbsp;=20
Seriously, there is, in every culture,<BR>&gt;an 'underground economy' =
in=20
illegal, unlawful, or simply unacceptable goods<BR>&gt;and the Imperium =
has an=20
interest in keeping this trade alive.&nbsp; If its not<BR>&gt;done with =
Imperial=20
currency it will be done with some other form of trade.<BR><BR>&gt;I've =
blabbed=20
enough now, I'll let others answer your last question.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I believe that Hard currency is necessary in a traveller universe =
for the=20
simple reason of communication. In todays world, money can be <FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>transferred </FONT>electronically between =
accounts, credit=20
cards and such. A &quot;cash card&quot; is all one really needs these =
days to=20
purchase something. But, in the traveller universe it would be =
impossible to=20
maintain interstellar bank accounts. For example, If I was on =
Agidda/Sol-Rim and=20
I wanted to access my account on Terra/Sol-Rim, I would have to wait 2 =
weeks to=20
get my money. 1 week to jump to Terra to verify funds and transfer them =
to=20
Agidda. </DIV>
<DIV>What may work (and what I use in my current game) is similar to a =
cash=20
card. Instead of the card accessing an account, the data is physically =
stored on=20
the card. These cash cards could be used at virtually any A or B class=20
starports, high tech worlds, and portable money transfer machines. Money =
could=20
be transferred electronically in-system, between ships or to a starport =
for=20
example. &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Hard cash would still be necessary for areas that don't except or =
have the=20
ability to accept cash cards. &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>One disadvantage to this &quot;cash card&quot; system is that it =
would lead=20
to tampering. Some one may be able to &quot;hack&quot; into the card and =

increase the amount of money it contains. &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A study was done on these kinds of cards recently and it was =
decided that=20
it was easier to counterfeit paper money than to hack into a card.=20
<BR>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD00F3.E85242C0--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 20:45:22 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: What is virus ?

At 08:11 AM 12/4/97 PST, you wrote:
>Thanks for the discussion on Virus.  I've wondered about it for some 
>time, and the references to Vampire Fleets (or Vampire Ships).  All the 
>discussion has been very helpful.
>
>Based on the discussion, though, could someone give a concise 
>explanation of how the Regency survived (Quarantine, etc.)  From the 
>discussion, it sounds as though that would not really be possible, if 
>you had to know the virus was coming....  Was it defense in depth?

Archduke Norris (the former Duke of Regina) ordered a quarntine running
across the middle of Deneb.  Residents on the wrong side of the line had a
very short period to pick up and move.  *Nothing* that could harbor Virus
was allowed in with the refugess.  Ships were stopped and had their
computers checked with a fine tooth comb while the Navy stood by at point
blank range.

Once the grace period ended, nothing moved across the border.  Any attempt
to enter Regency space was considered hostile.  One Vampire Fleet did
penetrate, with a single battleship making it to Trin where it massacred
much of the planet's population before suiciding onto the planet's surface.

At the time of the Regency Sourcebook, preperations were underway to allow
settlers across the buffer zone to begin reclaiming the previously lost
worlds.  
- --
+--------------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry               dberry@hooked.net |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
+--------------------------------------------------+
| "Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver.  The |
|  greater the general, the more he contributes in |
|  maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter."    |
|                     -Sir Winston L. S. Churchill |
+--------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:56:10 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

At 07:34 pm 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote:
>> how come artificial intelligence,
>> teleportation, genetic engineering, cybernetics and nanotech
all seem to be
>> completely taboo?  This is especially strange considering that
some of these
>> are actually becoming pretty advanced in our day, a mere TL8
society or so...

	Everybody's going to give you their gearhead reason, or canon
reason, or whatever. Here's my take:

	The reason Traveller isn't more like {Star Wars, Star Trek,
Battlestar Galactica, Blood Music, Neuromancer, ...}, and doesn't
include technology like {Teleportation, Nanotek, Shields,
Phasers, Warp Drive, Neural Jacks, ...} is because Traveller
isn't {Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Blood Music,
Neuromancer, ...}.

	Marc Miller, et. al., were looking for a specific feel; even the
very first Traveller had a very "hard-science" feel.  Go back &
reread the space combat rules in the original LBB if you don't
buy that ... Having set that feel, it's been propagated forward,
until the entire fabric of what Traveller is formed. Start
throwing in other things, and you'll tear the fabric. Maybe you
can make something else out of the shreds, but it won't be
Traveller ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:48:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Technological Conservatism

I've heard the argument that games with odder technology are simply
to confusing to play, but I simply don't buy it.  Blue Planet and Aeon 
have much more unusual technology than Traveller, and even Aeon looks a 
lot more like a reasonable vision of the future than Traveller does.

Sure, nanotechnology won't work in gaming, it's just *too* odd, but 
genetic engineering, biological and cybernetic implants, massively 
networked computers which exist in *every* device made are all ideas 
which have been used in SF literature for more than a decade, and which 
have been used in at least a few games.  Traveller could be updated.  
Digest Groups was doing this, they even had a cyborg book and a genetic 
engineering book planned, the TNE came along, followed by T4 and the 
technology of the Imperium has been left stagnating in 60s SF-land.

So, maybe we all can remedy this?


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:32:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: two programs (a mapper & a language aid)

Two programs, just released, that you folks might be interested in.
These weren't written for Traveller, but with a little work they
might be applied to it.

The first is a mapping tool which I originally wrote for fantasy
RPGing, but I got to thinking that it might be useful for Traveller
as well, particularly for regional maps (a section of a planet)
where a particular adventure or set of adventures are located.

        PROGRAM NAME: "MAPPER" [v0.1] {December 1997}
        AUTHOR: Jim Vassilakos (jimv@empirenet.com)
        FUNCTION: World Mapper
        OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM (MS-DOS)
        SIZE: 318,730 bytes zipped
        COMMENTS: Create maps with hexagonal color-tiles so you
              can share your RPG campaign world with the rest of
              us on the Net. Requires VGA graphics or better. May
              attach campaign notes to the map via an easy-to-learn
              menuing system. Two unfinished sample worlds already
              included. Note, you must use "-d" option when unzipping:
              >>>>>>>>    pkunzip -d mapper01.zip    <<<<<<<<
        If you draw up any campaign maps using this program, please
        send me a copy so I can include them in the next version...

The second one is a language program originally written to help me
pick up some greek, but I suddenly got to thinking that maybe the
people on the vilani-list might want to revise the data files
to their own nefarious ends... include it as part of a tutorial
in the vilani language, although this might require actual code
modification... i don't know vilani at all, so i can't say...

        PROGRAM NAME: "LANG" [v1.0] {December 1997}
        AUTHOR: Jim Vassilakos (jimv@empirenet.com)
        FUNCTION: Language Learner (Greek Version)
        OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM (MS-DOS)
        SIZE: 66,368 bytes zipped
        COMMENTS: Learn greek at your own pace via this
           flashcard program. You enter the words you want
           to learn (up to 500), then quiz yourself with both
           recall and recognition tests. Includes an uncompiled
           font editor to facilitate with the creation of other
           language files. All data files are flat-text for
           easy manual editing.

Anyway, just spamming the list with this gunk on the off-chance that
it might prove useful to somebody... both programs currently available
from my homepage:

          http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jimv

Just go to the programs section and snoop around... and if you have
trouble getting one or the other for whatever bizarre reason, let me
know and I'll send you a copy via email.

jimv@empirenet.com / JimVassila@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:17:03 0100
From: goeran <signal-gk@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Spofustuff

I would like a copy of this. I can also put it on my website if you
want me to.

Goeran

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:04:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Traveller Writer's list

- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Fwd: Traveller Writer's list
Date:    97-11-17 20:01:57 EST
From:    Kagekiha
To:      Kagehira


- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Traveller Writer's list
Date:    97-11-15 15:32:27 EST
From:    Kagekiha
To:      hiwg@fwe.com
CC:      traveller@mpgn.com

     Okay, the Traveller's Writer's List is up and apparently running.

      To subscribe send a message to:

subscribe hiwg-twg-digest <youraddress>

      for the digest version or

subscribe hiwg-twg <youraddress>


       Membership is restricted to former and would be Traveller Writer's.
The list is only for work on Traveller related projects (articles,
sourcebooks, etc....). Kibitzers can join the list on a temporary (6-month)
basis at the invititation of a writer.
        Would be Writer's need to submit an article for discussion (or an
outline of a sourcebook or adventure book they would like to work on). In
return you get a temporary membership (roughly 6 months), and useful input on
your work.
        A form of Nettiquette will be enforced on the list and discussions
should relate to useful material to Traveller (in any form) with the purpose
of getting published.
        This list is sponsored by History of the Imperium Working Group, it's
SIG, The Traveller Writer's Group and with thanks to Derek Wildstar for
providing a site.


Bryan Borich

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:24:04 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Veiled threats and all of that turned to ObTraveller (Re:  MST3K and Leroy and Douglas)

At 03:43 am 11/17/97 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 11:18 PM 11/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Okay, let's turn this to a Traveller post.
>>
>>6500 feet. Let's see, that's about, what, 1,981 meters? In a forest.
>
>>So according to the rules, the chances of doing this are slim and none.
>>Second question (to the millitary wonks with experience in such matters):
>>Are the rules accurate on this? My feeling is that they are, but I have
>>never done such long-range shooting (alas, the gun range I have shot at
is
>>limited to a piddly 100 m or so).
>
>If the shooter took several turns to aim at a target that was not aware of
>the threat, fired from a supported position, with a weapon and ammo load
he
>was familiar with..  maybe.  I'd like to know what was used to get a
>first-shot kill on a large animal at nearly 2km..  a sabot round?

	No, it was a special load designed by somebody in the daycare center at
Famille Spofulam ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:15:03 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Traveller Writer's list

At 08:04 PM 11/17/97 -0500, you wrote:

>     Okay, the Traveller's Writer's List is up and apparently running.

>       Membership is restricted to former and would be Traveller Writer's.
>The list is only for work on Traveller related projects (articles,
>sourcebooks, etc....). Kibitzers can join the list on a temporary (6-month)
>basis at the invititation of a writer.
>        Would be Writer's need to submit an article for discussion (or an
>outline of a sourcebook or adventure book they would like to work on). In
>return you get a temporary membership (roughly 6 months), and useful input on
>your work.

Can I join based on existing body of work?  I'm already behind on my MoS
adventure, and don't have time to rough something else out.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:33:52 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone at home?

Semo (with help from Pink Floyd)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2147
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 11 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2148



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

List HQ -- Status  Update
ping!
Web sites going down
testing 5
Testing 123...
Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
TravIRC
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re:KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Near C rock fix proposal
Virus and patchable computers
Suggestion * Traveller Virtual Archive
Letter from IG
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Near C rock fix proposal
Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught (surface area)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:56:10 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: List HQ -- Status  Update

On Sunday, December 7, our mailing list processor, web page, and ftp
archive machine lost a hard drive.   We started rebuilding the system, but
a series of problems plaguing that box had to be overcome as well as some
human errors that we created when trying to restore the drive.  We had
never restored a full drive before and it was a learning lesson.  I am
blessed that we haven't had to do that before and I'm glad the software
worked well to do it.  Its unfortunate that we had to face the learning
curve in the middle of a crisis.

Our first priority was to get our web server back in operation, since that
is our method of getting paying customers and permits us to provide this
free service.  

I am sending this message out for two reasons (well three really):

1.  I want to apologize for the outage.  I can't say this will never happen
again, but if it does, we will be more educated in how to fix it faster.

2.  I want to test the lists to make sure they work (and announce to you
they are back up, I think)

3.  Backups last occurred on Friday before the crash.  Any messages still
in the mail queue were lost.  Any digests produced after Friday are not in
the archive and will not be delivered.   There is a very good possibility
that some of the digests that are bursting now will be duplicates of those
already scene.  I don't know of a way to fix this one.

To the List admins, I don't know if the alias changes I made last week got
recorded or not, so some admin traffic may be directed to the wrong place,
but I think we are ok there.

Rob


- --
Rob Miracle <rwm@TanSoft.com>
Tantalus Inc.
Be patient or be a patient. -- Anton Devious

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:23:23 -0800
From: douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: ping!

Are we live yet!

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:38:46 -0600
From: Scott Galliand <galliand@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Web sites going down

Hello all.  This is to inform everyone that the three Traveller web sites I
currently have will be going down temporarily within the next day or so (if
they aren't already down).  These are;

My personal site (known as Scott Galliand's Traveller Site)  at
http://members.aol.com/sgalli5794/Traveller/
Geonee Online Sourcebook at
http://members.aol.com/sgalli5794/Traveller/geonee/
and the Neworld Sector at http://members.aol.com/sgalli5794/Traveller/Neworld/

The reason for this is that I am moving them to another site.  This will
give me some time to rework the site a little bit more and hopefully add
some stuff, particularly some graphics so the sites won't look so bland.  

For those of you who are kind enough to have links to my site (BTW,
thanks), you may want to temporarily remove them for a short time.  I don't
know how long the AOL sites will stay in existence.

If all goes according to plan, I'll try to have the latest version of the
sites on line by mid-January (I hope) at their new home at Illuminati
Online (http://www.io.com/).  In the mean time, if you need something in
particular from me, please feel free to email me and I'll try to get it out
to you.  Please remember that its the holiday season and we're all busy.
If you haven't heard from me in a few days, drop me a line again so I'll
keep it in the queue.

I apologize for anyone's inconvenience in this, and I'll try to get it back
in working order soon.

Thanks.

**********
Scott Galliand
Systems Analyst, Systems Engineering and Management Associates, Inc.
E-mail : galliand@ix.netcom.com
WWW : http://www.io.com/~galliand/  (NOT BACK ONLINE YET)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:45:52 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: testing 5

test message

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:44:04 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Testing 123...

will my message bounce back to me??

<Poof> you're a hamster!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:01:34 EST
From: Signal GK <SignalGK@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters

Does anyone know if the final Bilanidin Font was ever completed and is it
available for the PC? Also what's happened to the Aslan fonts...???

Update please?

Jae Campbell

Signal-GK: a distress signal, a call for help, a call to adventure!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:00:34 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

Semo wrote:

>Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
>Just nod if you can hear me.
>Is there anyone at home?

Hey!  Are we back?  When the list first disappeared, I thought it was the
wrath of Grandfather for my smarting off to Harold Hale about _Aliens 4_ --
which message apparently never got delivered, anyway <G>.  So I've been
forced to amuse myself by designing Aliens(tm) sushi and recoil simulation
tests for pelvic-mounted firearms.  Details will follow unless cyberwrath
intervenes.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:15:32 -0600
From: Matt McLaughlin <mkm@umr.edu>
Subject: re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

Nod. (anyone got an emoticon for that?)

Matt McL

> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:33:52 EST
> From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
> Subject: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
> 
> Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
> Just nod if you can hear me.
> Is there anyone at home?
> 
> Semo (with help from Pink Floyd)
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:15:21 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: TravIRC

Greetings!

In hopes that the list is truly back up...

Thursday night is Traveller night on IRC once again!

Tonight's discussion is focusing on Religion in Traveller. Commander 
X among others is spear-heading the discussion.

#traveller, Undernet, 7pm Central

Server of choice: StLouis.mo.us.undernet.org
Good backup: Springfield.mo.us.undernet.org

I'll be missing the festivities due to the company xmas party, so if 
someone would be so kind as to forward me the log, I would appreciate 
it.

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:23:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, SemoFetus wrote:

> Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
> Just nod if you can hear me.
> Is there anyone at home?
> 
> Semo (with help from Pink Floyd)
> 

It looks like the lights are coming back on again!

douglas

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin
e-mail: douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\
MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
*Unsolicited advertisements will be reported to the originating ISP*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:18:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Re:KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:33:52 EST
>From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
>Subject: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

>Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
>Just nod if you can hear me.
>Is there anyone at home?

>Semo (with help from Pink Floyd)

Heh, one of my favorite Floyd tunes! :)

I got this in digest format, there are a LOT of old posts.  But it looks 
like the TML is back up.

"...oh man!  What did you do?  The lights are coming on all over the place!"
 ---Excerpt from Traveller News Service, just before it became Coalition 
Information Network in Challenge Magazine.



P.S. This was sent out to other Mailing lists, but since TML is back...

Tonight on IRC -- Religion in the 3rd Imperium.

Use your IRC client to log into any undernet server and /join #traveller
for a discussion on religion and faiths in the 3rd Imperium.  From Classic 
Vilani Mythology, to weird Psionic Religious Orders!  Sure to be 
interesting.

Commander X

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:29:33 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Near C rock fix proposal

Rod Elliot wrote
>Greg Smith wrote:
>>Forgive ignorance.  near-c rock?

>	In Trav, given T-plates and efficient fusion plants, it'd be real
>easy to get an asteroid, or Kuiper belt object, or even a ship's lifeboat
>up to speeds where hitting a planet would pretty well ruin it.  If you
>start your rock far enough out that it has a few months at 1 G constant
>acceleration, it's going to be going real fast when it hits.  We're not
>talking dinosaur-killer impact here either... we're talking turn the planet
>inside-out impact if the rock is a decent size.

There is a simple solution, though it plays hell with entropy and
potential energy - create some handwave that explains why the rock does not
gather as much kinetic energy as it should.  Depending on the quality of
your handwave, you can have all sorts of results.

My personal favorite is that the thruster plate drive actually reduces the
inertial mass of an object, and that it is the reduced inertial mass which
is so easy to move.  This works fine in most cases, but leads to two
questions:

1.  What if the drive fails - does all of your velocity vanish?

2.  What happens if they move outsystem, such that the potential energy
increases?  They can then drop back into the system, and pick up a bunch of
kinetic energy.

My solutions are as follows:

1.  All thruster drives are coupled to one or two massive bodies.  As a
result, any momentum transfer problems are turned into action at a distance
problems.  These are resolved by the same relativity damper that is used on
jump drives. :)

2.  Drive failure causes rapid deceleration as the drive field decays.
This would change the travel formulas, as people would just cut the drive
to decelerate.  By making this catastrophically wearing on the drive,, you
can keep the old travel formulas.

3.  Movement to higher or lower gravitational potential energies is limited
by the drive input power.  I also use this for contragrav - CG is
conservative, such that the energy you put in to reach orbit can, in
general, be used to descend to ground level again, leaving only the actual
work done in applying a force over a distance as lost energy.

Anyone who wants to check my physics in the game is allowed to, and if they
find a big hole, they get player cookies if they fix it, which is why we
have the "action at a distance" rule at all.

This also means that thruster plates are just great for a jump in system,
or for scooting around the system at relatively low velocities, but they
are not perfect for shoving rocks (or ships) at great speed.

Scott



Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:37:44 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Virus and patchable computers

Two notes first:

1. Lets try to avoid a flame war.  The issue has been pounded to death before.

2.  I do not like the virus, as I find it a clumsy end to the rebellion
era.  I would have preferred a larger collapse driven by economic means.

That said, here is an example from real life, presented just as "reality fuel"

>On Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:25:23 -0500, Phil MacGregor wrote:
>>Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 21:45:22 -0700
>>From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>

>>At 12:13 am 12/7/97 GMT, you wrote:
>>>In other words, for all computer systems there will be some way
>>of wiping a corruption of the programming in RAM and replacing it with
>>uncorrupted ROM based backup media. Just as there is now. The procedures
>>may be different in detail, but the intent will be the same. And, with AI or
>>pseudo-AI computers, there is no way on earth that anyone can convince me
>>that a sane computer designer/programmer will *NOT* have such a procedure
>>"just in case."
....
>>	Oh, and all those moronic notebook computer designers are crazy,
>>too, because even the ROM in those machines is EEPROM or Flash
>>ROM, which can be changed under software control.
>
>And, of course, if the EPROM is corrupted, what do you do? You power down the
>system, crack the case, and replace the EPROM.

Designers can protect a system against all kinds of threats, and may add
configurability for usability reasons, but if they miss an application of
usability for security breaking, then they have a hole, and one which may
not be easily fixable.  EEPROMS, for example, are terribly convenient,
unless they can be used to make the system un fixable without a soldering
iron.

Note: I witnessed the following event personally.

At work, we had a technical problem with one of our programs on one version
of the IBM ValuePoint that could only be fixed by downloading a new BIOS
updater disk.

IBM released a version of the BIOS that fixed the flaw by disabled the fpu.

Some chap "fixed" it by modifying the IBM version to only disable part of
the fpu.  Unfortunately, his patch prevented all future BIOS updates from
working, and made the computer fail, because it wrote junk to a low memory
address after every write.

Once his evil software ran, the computer would crash occasionally, and it
would not accept a new BIOS updater.  (This was an error on his part - he
corrupted the BIOS version check code.)  To fix it, you had to crack the
case, and physically remove the chip.  Regrettably, it was not socketed, so
IBM had to send a new motherboard out.  Even if I had been willing to use a
soldering iron, IBM did not stock replacement EEPROMS.  They claimed that
what had happened was not possible.

It was possible to fix the problem, but that the people designing the
system had never considered the particular attack method which ended up
being used, and thus the technique of ripping out the EEPROM became time
consuming and expensive.  Compare that to a virus on my hard drive, which
cannot do that.  My current computer does not have any user addressable
parts that can be dynamically reconfigured to the point of needed a
soldering iron to fix them.  Thus, this bit of configuration software had a
gaping flaw.  It is not hard for me to imagine a very subtle one that
required a stroke of pure luck to exploit.

Note further, this problem could have been prevented by simply not putting
the EEPROM erase code and disk access code in the EEPROM that can be
updated.  They screwed up, but in a way that required a very fine knowledge
of the boot ROM code, the update process, and the system services available
to take advantage of.

Now, assume three "facts" about the so-called virus.

1.  It had been specifically trained to attack Imperial systems, and
probably had access to all the 3I knew about alien systems.

2.  The designers had some seriously reconfigurable systems out there,
especially on warships.  They also had security, but, much like IBM with
this ValuePoint, there was a back door that they had not considered

3.  On many systems, the Virus was capable of putting itself in places
that, in theory, could not hold such a thing.  In other words, the EEPROMS
out there were large enough to hold the Virus.

Sure, there were probably "reset and dump from backup" programs out there,
but for whatever reason, the Virus was small enough to fit in places which
they did not hit.  As a real life example, do you have a backup of your
system ROMs?  Usually not, because they are not available, and are not
modifiable anyway.

My favorite Traveller example - on the control panels of most ships, there
is a large file of ship systems and addresses that the panel might need to
talk to, stored locally.  Secret information can be put in there, because
these panels generally have a lot of free storage room.

I do think there is a problem with it making anything much below TL14 self
aware, because that makes the "AI is TL 17" rule less sensible, but this is
a different argument.

NB, I do not like the Virus for game play reasons, which is why I do not
use it, but the core idea of a secret war weapon computer virus that could
infect high tech systems and infiltrate in a malicious way does not seem
out of line.

>...
In short, the more bullshittium they lay on, the more problems they
>create for themselves ... often, quite simply, because they haven't
>thought the implications of the ideas through, or, equally as often,
because >they simply haven't thought of all the ramifications that the
warped geniuses >on the TML and Tech ML can twist out of their statements!

This is a truth, and affects all game designers.  Unfortunately, unless you
provide a consistent background, players have trouble reacting, and if you
do, then you run that risk.  My game, like many here, has this a lot,
because all of use are computer types, and we have two physicists and two
mathematicians playing, thus they are very good at working the system.

Referring to another thread, this is why I kind of like the technological
conservativism in Traveller - it makes it possible to keep things under
some level of control.  I have a small chance of guessing what people are
going to use the cool tech for.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 1997 15:34 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Suggestion * Traveller Virtual Archive

Gentle Travellers,

Last week I assembled a categorized index from data 
submitted by 8 or 9 folks with Traveller web pages.
I believe the resulting pages have been placed on a
website, but over the weekend I have felt some
misgivings about my method.

By compiling data submitted I am creating a bottleneck
and administrative overhead which isn't necessary and
should be automatic.

Glenn's suggestion is to contain keywords in our
Traveller pages, thus automatically creating searchable
indices for any web browser.  I suggest that method be
tried, since it has the advantages of being automatic,
distributed, and searchable.

All you have to do is add the category names to your
Traveller pages, as META tags (for example).  I suppose
the keywords might also have to be in the page title
or header, yes?

There might be one hurdle.  We might have to decide on
category names.  However, I hope this won't really be
much of a problem.

Opinions, suggestions?

Rob
                                                                           

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:45:41 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Letter from IG

I received the following (snail-mail) letter from Imperium Games
today.  I don't consider it a hopeful sign.

>Dear Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society Subscriber,

>We regret to inform you that we are discontinuing publication of the =
Journal. Please mark one of
>the refund options listed below and return this form to Imperium Games.

>As you know, only two issues of the new Journal (#25, #26) have been =
published. Unfortunately,
>Journal has not meshed well into Imperium's production schedule nor into=
 our plans for further
>development of the Traveller universe.

>Imperium Games is committed to publishing only the highest quality =
Traveller books.  While it is
>regrettable that the Journal has not achieved its potential, our other =
Traveller products continue to
>improve with every release, further enriching the Milieu 0 environment.

>The possibility remains that Imperium Games may revive the Journal at a =
later time, but there are
>no definite plans nor any timetable at present.

>Imperium Games apologizes for any inconveniences.


>Sincerely,

>(signature)
>Ann Flagella
>Manager

The three options are (1) Next book free ("(a $2295 value)"), (2)
check for pro-rata, (3) credit credit-card account for pro-rata.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:45:06 -0500 (EST)
From: fcain@st6000.sct.edu (Franklin W. Cain)
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

> Traveller-digest      Sunday, December 7 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 2154

> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:49:57 -0600
> From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

> 	You know, I've always been a little disappointed by the direction
> the series took after Aliens.  When you think about it, the Aliens are a
> little too... tailored to prey on humanity than random natural selection in
> separate ecologies should reasonably allow.  If you were setting out to
> design a critter to deal with humans, it'd be hard to come up with better.
> 
> 	Were I to have been writing the series, it would have turned up
> that the critters were bioweapons to begin with...  some rather
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> non-confrontational but decidedly hostile ETs just cooked them up, left
> them where humans would be sure to find them, and sat back to watch the
> fireworks.
> 
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

AAAAIIIIIGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!  
Yaskoydray strikes again!  
(In space, no one can hear you burp. :-)

================================================================
Franklin W. Cain                email: fcain@sct.edu

"We come in peace!...(Set phasers on 'obliterate.')"
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:18:21 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

>Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
>Just nod if you can hear me.
>Is there anyone at home?
>
>Semo (with help from Pink Floyd)

Woo hoo!!!! It's alive! IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:31:21 PST
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzumstein@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

>From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
>
>Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
>Just nod if you can hear me.
>Is there anyone at home?
>
>Semo (with help from Pink Floyd)
>

Just us astro chickens!

PZ


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:41:13 -0500
From: Robert Flammang <flammang@npl2.phyast.pitt.edu>
Subject: Near C rock fix proposal

> From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@Alumni.HMC.Edu>
   
>>Greg Smith wrote:
>>	In Trav, given T-plates and efficient fusion plants, it'd be real
>>easy to get an asteroid, or Kuiper belt object, or even a ship's lifeboat
>>up to speeds where hitting a planet would pretty well ruin it.  If you
>>start your rock far enough out that it has a few months at 1 G constant
>>acceleration, it's going to be going real fast when it hits.  We're not
>>talking dinosaur-killer impact here either... we're talking turn the planet
>>inside-out impact if the rock is a decent size.
   
> There is a simple solution, though it plays hell with entropy and
> potential energy 
   [snip]
> My personal favorite is that the thruster plate drive actually reduces the
> inertial mass of an object, and that it is the reduced inertial mass which
> is so easy to move.  This works fine in most cases, but leads to two
> questions:
   [snip]
   
   Great minds think alike!  I've always held that Trav maneuver drives
   must conserve energy, and I've long noted that the only way for that
   to be true is if (a) you increase the power requirements by a factor
   of 1000 or so, or (b) you state that the maneuver drive somehow
   magically decouples energy from velocity, so that E = m*v^2/2 does not
   hold anymore.
   
> This also means that thruster plates are just great for a jump in system,
> or for scooting around the system at relatively low velocities, but they
> are not perfect for shoving rocks (or ships) at great speed.
   
   Yeah, simple conservation of energy tells you that Trav power-plants
   cannot accelerate rocks to the kind of energies that planet killers
   need in a finite amount of time. And yet Trav rules tell you that you
   can accelerate the rocks to very high speed.  So you have an
   inconsistency unless you postulate some magic M-drive that lets energy
   be independent of momentum; something that takes a macroscopic object
   `off of the mass shell', that makes your near-c planetoid a `virtual'
   rock that actually has very little energy, similar to the way
   quantum-mechanical virtual particles have incompatible momentum and
   energy.
   
   Such a drive would take its place along side jump, gravitics, and
   psionics as unexplainable Trav magic. (Well, perhaps Jordy could make
   it explainable it terms of multi-phasic tachyon fields fed through the
   deflector screens or transporter. 8^)
   
   I haven't worked out any off the details you brought up yet.  I've
   found simple hand waving and fiats enough to stave off most of my
   players wild energy-violating schemes.
   
   -Rob
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:19:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught (surface area)

Since the server seems to have gone down before this reply got through,
I'm going to send it again.  Apologies if you get it twice.

On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Clark Crawford wrote:
> >
> > Haven't seen a rule saying that you can't add material to the hull for the
> > purpose of increasing its area -- it seems logical.
> 
> True, but it isn't as easy as you'd think. 
> 
> Since the hull is in a vacuum, that means that any added surface area
> that can "see" any other area of the hull is *wasted* to the extent
> that it sees the other part of the hull. This is because the radiated
> heat would just get picked back up by that other part of the hull.

Good point -- I missed that.  Do you think we could use ridged surfaces
for radiators?  The ridges are angled 45 degrees to the plane of the hull,
90 degrees to one another (or more, to account for diffracted rays).  All
the ridge planes that don't have a normal line intersecting some other
part of the ship can be used for radiators.  If the hull is carefully
designed (by our Imperial architect characters), we will not have any
wastage of the bonus area gained from the ridges.

> So the added area has to be things like "fins" running the length of
> the hull (don't forget to count the area of *both* sides). But you
> can't have more than 4 of them or you are back to the "facing each
> other" problem.

We can probably get away with only one fin in many cases, if the ridge
technique can be used.  Other convolutions (narrowing, elongation,
flattening) can also be used, either alone or in conjunction with the
ridge technique, although I would not go so far as to modify the hull
length formula.  We could come up with a pretty simple standard formula
for increased surface area based on the geometry of the ridges, assuming
they are used to replace a "flat" hull region of arbitrary dimensions.  Or
we could just "fudge" it, to account for infinite variation in ridge size.

Since the mounting of battle riders does not involve the dissipation of
energy, this restriction should not apply to them, or to other similar
applications.  It still poses a problem for weapons and sensors, though,
especially since these emitters want to reach as large a spatial volume as
possible (i.e. ridges and most other convolutions won't fix them).  If we
want to make a rule, I suggest that it state that area for weapons and
sensors must come from the ship's area according to the original formula,
while expanded area can be used for everything else.

Did I miss any other active emitter types that have the same requirements
as weapons and sensors? 

Thanks for replying to my post.


Clark

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2148
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2149



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: Letter from IG
Re: Letter from IG
Re: Letter from IG
re: Problems with the Virus
Re: Testing 123...
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: near-c rock fix proposal
Re: Testing 123...
Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters
Fw: Traveller ships and Imperial Squadrons
New Topics - Suggestion
Re: Technological Conservatism
1992 GURPS Traveller
Recoil experiments
Re: Technological conservatism.
lost messages

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:43:26 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

At 05:18 PM 12/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
>>Just nod if you can hear me.
>>Is there anyone at home?
>>
>>Semo (with help from Pink Floyd)
>
>Woo hoo!!!! It's alive! IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!!!

"Woo Hoo"  Minbari phrase meaning "only 30 seconds?"
- --

+--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net x
x   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+
|          Embrace Fascism.          x
x       The uniforms look cool       |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:25:40 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Letter from IG

At 10:45 PM 12/11/97 GMT, you wrote:

>>We regret to inform you that we are discontinuing publication of the
Journal. Please mark one of
>>the refund options listed below and return this form to Imperium Games.

gosh, maybe now they'll pay me.


>The three options are (1) Next book free ("(a $2295 value)"), (2)
>check for pro-rata, (3) credit credit-card account for pro-rata.

I'd go for that $2000 book, sounds like a winner.  :)
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:13:15 -0800
From: douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Letter from IG

Sooooo....

Are there any other magazines supporting T4 - i.e. bringing new ideas for equipment and adventures to the
majority of GMs who are NOT represented on this list?

Seems that there may just be an opportunity here...  ;)

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:54:31 -0700 (MST)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: Letter from IG

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, douglas wrote:
> Are there any other magazines supporting T4 - i.e. bringing new ideas for equipment and adventures to the
> majority of GMs who are NOT represented on this list?
> Seems that there may just be an opportunity here...  ;)

Is Traveller Chronicle still getting made?

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:55:11 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Problems with the Virus

>Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 13:15:31 GMT
>From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
>Subject: >Subject: My Problems with the Virus
....
>And, of course, there's the "evolutionary" differences. What are the chances of
>standard Imperial Computer chips being closely enough "related" to Cymbeline
>chips for there to be any meaningful possibility of the Cymbeline chips being
>able to even recognise them as mateable with? I'll tell you -- zip, nada, null,
>zero, nought, zilch!

  From at least Signal GK, the intelligent chips are based on Terran hardware
of the 7IW. I wonder if they're entitled to veterans benefits? The Virus chips
are designed to predate Imperial chips.

>We argued this one to death over the ridiculous plague in TLWH/Gateway.

  It's quite possible that not everyone agreed. IIRC, there are some points
of the biology issues that I'd like to see a bit further developed.

>>Secondly, Signal GK starts in 075-1110 and involves a minimum of 9 jumps. At
>>the very best the Imperium could not have even become aware of the existance
>>of the Cymbeline Chips until late 1110, more likely early 1111.

  I believe someone else already indicated discovery by 1067.

>Yes. There is *NO POSSIBILITY AT ALL* that any non-Imperial state would adopt
 
  Perhaps, canon aside. But individual traders and companies will do whatever
it takes to keep a lucrative trade license (to operate in the 3I).
....
>As for the chances of the chips being distributed in the time allowed -- 
  Not at issue. See above.
....
>we cannot assume, as the system did, that you would "shoot on sight" any ship/
  Only during later Civil War. Different circumstances.
....
>There will *always* be some form of traffic control option for ships not
>equipped with Cymbeline transponders. To suggest otherwise flies in the face of
>objective reality. And that, more than anything else, is my huge objection to
>Virus -- so much of it flies in the face of objective reality that it makes a
>mockery of the whole idea.

  I agree with the first two statements, but the last seems to be based on
something other than a recent reading of the material. It happens that my
problems with MT/TNE don't include Virus. The mindsets of the people who
developed it in the background (NI, etc.), however...

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:59:39 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Testing 123...

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
>will my message bounce back to me??
>
><Poof> you're a hamster!
>
>Bruce Johnson
>University of Arizona
>College of Pharmacy
>Information Technology Group


	Pro: my girlfriend just loves small round furry animals...

	Con: we have three cats :).

	Looks like we're back in business, folks.  Good to see you all.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:10:30 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

Franklin W. Cain wrote:

>
>> 	You know, I've always been a little disappointed by the direction
>> the series took after Aliens.  When you think about it, the Aliens are a
>> little too... tailored to prey on humanity than random natural selection in
>> separate ecologies should reasonably allow.  If you were setting out to
>> design a critter to deal with humans, it'd be hard to come up with better.
>>
>> 	Were I to have been writing the series, it would have turned up
>> that the critters were bioweapons to begin with...  some rather
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> non-confrontational but decidedly hostile ETs just cooked them up, left
>> them where humans would be sure to find them, and sat back to watch the
>> fireworks.
>>
>> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
>
>AAAAIIIIIGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!
>Yaskoydray strikes again!
>(In space, no one can hear you burp. :-)


	Well, the idea makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.  I have a hard
time that something like the aliens, which are so perfectly adapted to
eradicating pesky infestations of humans, could have evolved like that on
their own.  For example:

	Facehuggers are very good at doing precisely that; they're built to
grab on to human-sized heads, wrap their tails around human-sized and
placed throats to exert pressure (not all species might put their
respiratory tracts in the same place) on the bronchial tubes, to ram an
ovipositor down a human-placed mouth and throat, and feed a human oxygen.

	This is a little bit too close to design for comfort; either
something on the aliens' homeworld was built just like humans, or the
aliens were designed...

	Then there's the fact that alien genetics are so close to humans
(and dogs) that they can splice DNA together; the chest-burster/adult
aliens are based at least in part upon their hosts (rottweilers, humans),
and Ripley v.8.0/Alien v.2.0.  I have a real hard time buying evolutionary
convergence on this one.

	Likewise the fact that the aliens are sized just right for human
spacecraft ventilation ducts :).

	As I've said, were I writing the script for them next one, we'd all
find out that the aliens were bioweapons, and annoyed at their failure,
their designers were working on a replacement; Tamagotchis :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:28:01 EST
From: Dralasite <Dralasite@aol.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

Does this mean that the long night is over and its the start of a new
imperium?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:27:37 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: near-c rock fix proposal

>Great minds think alike!  I've always held that Trav maneuver drives
>must conserve energy, and I've long noted that the only way for that
>to be true is if (a) you increase the power requirements by a factor
>of 1000 or so, or (b) you state that the maneuver drive somehow
>magically decouples energy from velocity, so that E = m*v^2/2 does not
>hold anymore.

Actually, to conserve energy you need to make the power requirements
a function of velocity, and then you get into the "velocity relative
to what?" question, and get (as you note) very high power requirements for
even moderate drive velocities.

THe maneuver-drive-decreases-mass thing (reminiscent of E.E. Smith) gets
into all sorts of odd "what happens when you switch it off" questions,
and "what happens when you launch a fighter"and "what happens when you
stick your arm out the window" and "what happens when photons from
enemy lasers enter the field", etc. It's possible to make it work, but
it changes the
flavour a lot.

Too bad people were too hidebound/conservative/lazy to keep HEPlaR
(which only bends rather than breaks physical laws...) 

(Although even there the problem just changes scale a little - a million-ton
asteroid ship at 50 hexes/turn is still Seriously Bad News.)

One thing we did get into T4 was the Thruster plate limit at ~20 AU,
which makes it harder (though not impossible) to get up to really high
velocities.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:39:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Testing 123...

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> will my message bounce back to me??
> 
> <Poof> you're a hamster!
> 
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
> 
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
> 
> 

Someone remember to feed Bruce, and clean his cage! ;D

douglas

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin
e-mail: douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\
MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
*Unsolicited advertisements will be reported to the originating ISP*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 22:21:45 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters

On 1997-12-11 1:01 pm, Signal GK <SignalGK@aol.com> wrote the following:

>Does anyone know if the final Bilanidin Font was ever completed and is it
>available for the PC? Also what's happened to the Aslan fonts...???
>
>Update please?

Coming soooon. Very soon. Sorry for the delay.

Glenn Hoppe
- -- Your humble Bilanidin font guy.

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:43:16 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Fw: Traveller ships and Imperial Squadrons

I originally tried to send this Monday But it was eaten in route.

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

<miner deletion>
>There is a product just released called Imperial Squadrons.  In it, you'll
>find a couple of big ships designed by your humble servant.  I put in a
>Destroyer Escort, a Carrier, an Armored Cruiser, and my favorite, the
>90,000ton Coronation-class Battleship.

<and a bit more deleted>

I certainly did like the write-up for these ships.  Unfortunately because
your ships were incompletely detailed (no picture, no quality, etc.) on
those inadequate starship cards (no blanks for price, fuel tankage, and so
on)they seem misplaced in the Basic Campaigns chapter.  The ships would have
been better off included with the Imperial Squadrons Campaigns chapter, the
role playing part of the book.  Now, regarding the rest of Imperial
Squadrons.  The Basic Campaigns, a rehash of Trillion Credit Squadron, is
fairly useless, with the exception of Douglas's ships, due to the omission
of any way to resolve combat between squadrons.  Kind of pointless to build
squadrons to fight each other if there is no way for them to fight.
Fortunately that one chapter contained most of the problems that I have with
"Imperial Squadron".  The rest of seem quite good.  Having read through much
the Advance Campaigns chapters, it appears to be a good solid set of rules
for strategic level interstellar combat based on the old classic Fifth
Frontier War boardgame.  so far I have only skimmed the final part of the
Imperial Squadrons Campaigns which deals with role playing in the Imperial
Navy.  However, this section seem to be very good, filled with campaign and
adventure ideas as well as other useful information such starship command
structures from the Captain down to the Galley Hands and Military Justice.
Over all despite the failing of the first chapter (which is only 8 printed
pages) the Imperial Squadrons is a very good supplement.

>By the way.. a near-C cookie to the first person to figure out the joke
>behind the name of the Bass Straight DE.  Craig already knows, so he's
>diqualified.

I not so sure it's a good idea to be using too many of the jokes and/or 20th
century references in Traveller products, after all you do recall how some
people "loved" "Aliens of the Rim" for just this reason 8^)
(and no I didn't get the joke, unless its just a combination of bass akwards
and danm straght, but do appreciate the fact that it is there
nonetheless)


Chris Cox
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
The Draconis Cluster Traveller pages
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:20:54 -0600
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconn@simm.net>
Subject: New Topics - Suggestion

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD068B.6E254900
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've been working on various ideas for the couple of campaigns=20
that I GM and I thought that I'd drop a note to the list and see
what all the other GM's have done in the same vein.

Has anyone created their own races, based upon ? favorite
books? serial novels? movies? tv shows?=20

Please advise.
Inquiring Minds want to know.

Thanks
Pat Connaughton


- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD068B.6E254900
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I've been working on various ideas =
for the=20
couple of campaigns </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>that I GM and I thought that I'd =
drop a note to=20
the list and see</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>what all the other GM's have done in =
the same=20
vein.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Has anyone created their own races, =
based upon ?=20
favorite</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>books? serial novels? movies? tv =
shows?=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Please advise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Inquiring Minds want to =
know.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Pat Connaughton</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD068B.6E254900--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:25:26 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Technological Conservatism

>Sure, nanotechnology won't work in gaming, it's just *too* odd, but
>genetic engineering, biological and cybernetic implants, massively
>networked computers which exist in *every* device made are all ideas
>which have been used in SF literature for more than a decade, and which
>have been used in at least a few games.  Traveller could be updated.
>Digest Groups was doing this, they even had a cyborg book and a genetic
>engineering book planned, the TNE came along, followed by T4 and the
>technology of the Imperium has been left stagnating in 60s SF-land.
>
>So, maybe we all can remedy this?

Sounds like a good idea. I have always felt there was a technological
drought betweens tech levels 12 to 15. Every TL up to 12 has lots of neat
breakthroughs like computers, fusion, jump drive, gravitics, meson weapons,
and so on. But after TL 12 there just seem refinements of existing
technology.

Can anyone think of some radical new technology, which fits into the
existing Traveler TL progression, that can be introduced? An idea I had was
safe suspended animation. One would have to be suicidal to go into a low
berth the way they are described in Traveller. If safe suspended animation
was available, interstellar travel would become much safer and cheaper for
both crew and passengers. This would have significant social effects
without changing the game background radically.

I would like new technologies introduced into Traveller, and with IG we
have an opportunity for some revisions to be introduced into the game.

Also, in my M:0 campaign there is an unknown TL 14 planet Cleon's Imperium
will soon be encountering. I want some totally new and unexpected (even to
previous Traveller players) technology to throw at them.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:54:04 +-1100
From: Scott Levy <becubed@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: 1992 GURPS Traveller

I just got a copy of the MegaTraveller Journal #3 and was surprised to =
read in the into from Rob Caswell the following:

"At conventions, we tend to listen to a lot of gamers complaining that =
they don't like the MT rules for "such and such", and "Why don't you =
just go back to the rules in old book X?" Well, as a Traveller player, =
you can use whatever rules set suits you. We're not looking over your =
shoulder with threatening glares. Heck, if you want to play GURPS =
MegaTraveller, have a blast!"

Did he know something?

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:00:53 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Recoil experiments

Esteemed colleagues:

With the TML down the last few days, I've had a lot of idle time on my
hands -- thus offering the ideal playground.

I found a box full of discarded lucite sheeting in all different shapes,
and immediately recognized an opportunity to simulate the recoil of
pelvic-mounted projectile weaponry (e.g. the PMPP).  A bunch of scrap foam
rubber, a roll of duct tape and an old dildo harness provided basic
instrumentation; the kinetic energy was produced by an appalled but
fundamentally amenable jock.

Design-wise, I found that centering the impact right at the pubic bone is
the best way to go.  The supporting plates work best when extended sideways
and slightly up the torso, to distribute the force into the front flanges
of the hipbones and not into your viscera. A broad U or V-shaped
configuration seems optimum.

I had the recoil mechanism (an amateur competitive boxer) punch me in the
shoulder and butt of the hand (with arm fully extended) and then on the
proto-pelvic mount with as closely equal amounts of strength as she could
manage.  I have pretty limited experience firing guns myself, but it seemed
that the rough equivalents of medium-power handguns (9mm, .357 magnum) were
almost negligible on the pelvis.  The trick is bracing right and not
flinching or overcompensating -- not really much different than firing from
the hand, I guess.  On the higher end of the impact scale, the kinetic
energy provider refused to punch me as hard in the upper body as in the
crotch -- what else is new? -- but the strongest blows were still pretty
well minimized by the rig.  They did, however, make me sway a bit; clearly
not something you could do "on the run" without losing your balance and
footing.  Afterwards, I was a little sore but unbruised; better-quality
padding would be a big help.

This is definitely a feasible technology for even fairly high-recoil
weapons, and, I suspect, even for use by bipeds with (grossly) external
genitalia.  Why the hell hasn't anyone worked on developing this before???
If any members of the TML (preferrably physiologically male and/or more
experienced judges of firearm recoil) would volunteer as test subjects,
perhaps we could further extend the frontiers of Science.

Yours in scholarship,

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP:  <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:10:11 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

I sent this just before the crash, so I'm resending it.

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>John Snead wrote:

>> How about for rules:  None of the PCs have knowledge skills, instead
>>everyone is assumed to know everything they want about any well 
>>known, publicly accessible topic.  Everyone is an expert in history, 
>>math, chemistry... Also, people may have some knowledge skills they 
>>picked up on their own for use if they are ever "off-line". 
>
>But also, any skill that doesn't require "muscle memory" will *also* be
>available. It's not just *information* that'll be readily available.
>It'll be "programs" for using the info. In short, "skills" and
>"experience". 

This all depends on the type of interface you are postulating.  I see
three primary varieties: 

1) You receive information (the population of X country, the value of Y
resistor... + full sensory impressions and you access the computer using
conscious thought [what is the population of X country?  What is the
answer to Y equation].  In this type of interface the character might
receive bonuses to Edu skills, but actual skills cannot be gained through
the interface because all you are getting is data.  I'd say you must have
at least skill level 1 and you can get no more that +2 to the skill. 

2) Full sensory output + the connection works like memory.  Thinking about
a topic will provide you with information from the computer just like
thinking about a topic now provides you with information from your own
memory.  This type of interface will provide the user with nearly
unlimited knowledge skills (in Traveller terms, any skill based off of
Edu).  Depending upon just how unconscious the interface is Int-based
skills could also be included, but you could equally say that only
Edu-based skills can be gained in this way.  It seems quite reasonable
that only skills which depend more upon learning than upon innate
intelligence (essentially any skill you can learn purely in a classroom
w/o lab time or any working with your hands:  history, genetics...).  If
you try to access any skills which require actual practice then you are in
the same situation as someone who has taken several courses on the
subject, but has never used this knowledge.  All the medical
book-knowledge in the work is only going to help you so much in actually
performing surgery. 

3) Your mind and the computer are one.  As long as your body is in the
proper physical shape you can receive *any* skill, whether mental or
physical from the computer.  I'd avoid this option as too powerful and
*way* too odd. 

We currently have no idea which of these is more likely to happen in real
life.  1 is certain to be possible, 2 & 3 *may* be possible, but they may
not be.  If you stay aware from option 3 you are not dealing with actual
intelligence enhancement and the game should be manageable.  Option 1
should cause no problems what-so-ever, and can be used if the GM want to
be conservative. 

My problem with Traveller is it doesn't even include 1 as an option except
for TL 14 computer implants which cost as much as a small starship. 
Type 1 interfaces will be *cheap* and are likely to exist in our 
world within a decade or two.

>Hidden or secret data will be a lot more obvious though. Much of the
>"secret" data in this country can easily be reconstructed by someone
>with the time and patience to wade thru all the *public* info on the
>subject. 

>While this mostly applies to scientific/technical info, it also applies
>to a lot of other things. Sherlock Holmes won't even be in the same
>*league* as the average citizen in such a society.

True, but if someone is careful (and careful villains are more fun) they
can still have secret meetings and secret files (especially if the files
are stored on a computer with no connections to external networks).
Challenging adventures are still quite possible. 

>The *real* problem, which you missed is that players can't really play
>a character that is *that* much smarter than the player is. It quits
>being role-playing and becomes "roll-playing" as the GM keeps having 
>to figure out if the *character* would think of things that the player
>hadn't. 

More information available does not equal smarter.  If the interface
requires conscious thought then the PC's aren't necessarily smarter, they
just have huge masses of data available instantly.  If you have an
unconscious interface then, yes, the PCs are effectively smarter. I'd
avoid the later possibility. 

Comments?


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:31:11 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: lost messages

Rob Miracle sez:

>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:56:10 -0500
>From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
>Subject: List HQ -- Status  Update
>
>On Sunday, December 7, our mailing list processor, web page, and ftp
>archive machine lost a hard drive...

<snip>

>3.  Backups last occurred on Friday before the crash.  Any messages still
>in the mail queue were lost.  Any digests produced after Friday are not in
>the archive and will not be delivered.   There is a very good possibility
>that some of the digests that are bursting now will be duplicates of those
>already scene.  I don't know of a way to fix this one.

<snip>

>Rob Miracle <rwm@TanSoft.com>
>Tantalus Inc.
>Be patient or be a patient. -- Anton Devious

 I archive the digests on my own local drive as I get them. I have the
TML Digests originally numbered 2147-2149 and 2151-2154. 2150 was
apparently damaged in transit, and it was my attempt to get it from
the ftp site that told me that mpgn was down. If you want the ones I
have for the archive, Rob, you are more than welcome to them.  The
digests that just went out are numbered over the old ones, however.
Actually, the new 2147 is about two-thirds of the original 2147 and
one-third post-crash (ie. 2155).
  If you can push the numbering up to 2158 or so, confusion might be
reduced.

Cheers,

GypsyComet@aol.com

 PS: To the TML at large. If anyone archives in digest format, I still need
digest 2150 from just before the crash.

GC.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2149
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2150



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Recoil experiments
Universal Corporate Profile
Re: Letter from IG
Re: Suggestion * Traveller Virtual Archive
In jokes in IS
Re : PMPP field-testing
Re: ping!
Re: Testing 123...
Re: Near C rock fix proposal
Re: Virus and patchable computers
Re: near-c rock fix proposal
Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught (surface area)
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: Virus and patchable computers
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Hmm.
Re: Letter from IG
Re: Letter from Imperium Games
Re: Testing 123...
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2144 (fwd)
Re: List HQ -- Status  Update
Journal es muerto
Re: Tiny particles = tiny weapons

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:51:24 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> This is definitely a feasible technology for even fairly high-recoil
> weapons, and, I suspect, even for use by bipeds with (grossly) external
> genitalia.  Why the hell hasn't anyone worked on developing this before???
> If any members of the TML (preferrably physiologically male and/or more
> experienced judges of firearm recoil) would volunteer as test subjects,
> perhaps we could further extend the frontiers of Science.

 Ok, I think we add this to the test list for the siege engine comp. But I'll
need
signed release forms for the video and pics. Oh, you will have to provide a
test subject, if can't some clannie to volunteer.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:04:56 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Universal Corporate Profile

Over on the ISBA list the concept of a Universal Corporate Profile is being
discussed. If anybody's interested, the work done so far is on the web at

http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/ucp.htm

The site needs to be upgraded to take account of the latest ideas.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:03:00 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Letter from IG

douglas wrote:
> 
> Sooooo....
> 
> Are there any other magazines supporting T4 - i.e. bringing new ideas for equipment and adventures to the
> majority of GMs who are NOT represented on this list?
> 
> Seems that there may just be an opportunity here...  ;)
> 

Idea: How about putting our money where our mouth is and create a
TML-based Fanzine? To be marketed around the world (BITS: any interest?)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:58:15 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Suggestion * Traveller Virtual Archive

> 
> All you have to do is add the category names to your
> Traveller pages, as META tags (for example).  I suppose
> the keywords might also have to be in the page title
> or header, yes?
> 
> There might be one hurdle.  We might have to decide on
> category names.  However, I hope this won't really be
> much of a problem.
> 
> Opinions, suggestions?

Use MegaTraveller as a metatag for all page (Mega, CT or TNE alike), 
as MegaTraveller is unlikely to be used in another context.

Categories would include anything with the prefix Trav.
Examples:
TravTech
TravAliens
TravAncients
TravShips
TravWorlds
TravCampaign
TravAdventure
etc.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:30:35 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: In jokes in IS

>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:43:16 -0500
>From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Fw: Traveller ships and Imperial Squadrons

>>By the way.. a near-C cookie to the first person to figure out the joke
>>behind the name of the Bass Straight DE.  Craig already knows, so he's
>>diqualified.

>I not so sure it's a good idea to be using too many of the jokes and/or 20th
>century references in Traveller products, after all you do recall how some
>people "loved" "Aliens of the Rim" for just this reason 8^)
>(and no I didn't get the joke, unless its just a combination of bass akwards
>and danm straght, but do appreciate the fact that it is there
>nonetheless)

It would have anything to do with a certain "native title" argument ongoing
at the moment would it?

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:33:46
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re : PMPP field-testing

Kengi,

I just have three questions ...

(1) are you going to Arisia ?

(2) do you live in or near San Francisco ?

and (3) would a PMPP have static electric effects from the intense magnetic
fields ... I am kind of thinking purple wand, but a lot lot lot worse.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:47:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: ping!

In mail you write:

> Are we live yet!

No. 

This is a recording....

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:50:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Testing 123...

In mail you write:

> Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>>will my message bounce back to me??
>>
>><Poof> you're a hamster!
>
>         Pro: my girlfriend just loves small round furry animals...
>
>         Con: we have three cats :).

That's what the exercise balls are for. Cat's confronted with a rodent
inside one get this *really* strange look on their face. And if the
critter isn't overly excitable, it will even *enjoy* being a cat toy.
(I had a friend with a gerbil that got put in the exercise ball when
the cat was around. They got along fine.)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:54:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Near C rock fix proposal

In mail you write:

> Rod Elliot wrote
>>Greg Smith wrote:
>>>Forgive ignorance.  near-c rock?
>
> There is a simple solution, though it plays hell with entropy and
> potential energy - create some handwave that explains why the rock does not
> gather as much kinetic energy as it should.  Depending on the quality of
> your handwave, you can have all sorts of results.
>
> My personal favorite is that the thruster plate drive actually reduces the
> inertial mass of an object, and that it is the reduced inertial mass which
> is so easy to move.  This works fine in most cases, but leads to two
> questions:

But it's still possible to build the 1000 km massdriver in the Oort
cloud and boost nickel/iron "rocks" to 1.5% of c. That only takes cheap
fusion power and the Famile Spofulam design team. :-)

On the other hand, they *are* "small" (few ton) rocks.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:59:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Virus and patchable computers

In mail you write:

> That said, here is an example from real life, presented just as "reality 
> fuel"
>
> Designers can protect a system against all kinds of threats, and may add
> configurability for usability reasons, but if they miss an application of
> usability for security breaking, then they have a hole, and one which may
> not be easily fixable.  EEPROMS, for example, are terribly convenient,
> unless they can be used to make the system un fixable without a soldering
> iron.
>
> Note: I witnessed the following event personally.

<snip of stupid programmer trick :-)>

Well, there's a "simpler" way to screw the owner of a system that uses
EEPROMs or EAROMs. Such devices have a limited number of writes.

The later members of the Tandy 1000 line used EEPROMs for storing setup
info. And there *were* cases recorded of system failure due to people
changing the settings too many times!

So you can sabotage the system by merely writing a "virus" that updates
the EEPROM with unusable code and keeps writing it until the EEPROM
won't update anymore. Easiest way is to just write something like all
the same byte except for the correct checksum. Then just cycle through
the possible byte values until a read gets the old values. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:41:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: near-c rock fix proposal

In mail you write:

> THe maneuver-drive-decreases-mass thing (reminiscent of E.E. Smith) gets
> into all sorts of odd "what happens when you switch it off" questions,
> and "what happens when you launch a fighter"and "what happens when you
> stick your arm out the window" and "what happens when photons from
> enemy lasers enter the field", etc. It's possible to make it work, but
> it changes the flavour a lot.

True. But it might be fun to work out who an "inertialess" drive (even
one less than 100% efficient) would work. After all, the Arisians may
be out there somewhere. :-)

One thing that Smith got "right" was the decision to decouple
gravitational mass (the M in F=GMM/R^2) and inertial mass (the mass
in F=MA). That makes things easier. For one, it means you *do* have to
supply the energy for the change in potential energy as you move around
in various gravity fields.

And as for what's left, well, it would seem to work out ok. The classic
case of 100% inertialess has you resuming your original vector at the
point you turn off the drive.

For partial neutralization, I'm not entirely clear how you'd work it.
Probably by applying the vector the drive gave your (lowered) mass to
your original vector, both adjusted for the amount of neutralization.

I *think* that'd be
(Orig_vector*percent_neutralized)+(new_vector*percent_not_neutralized).

This would *definitely* change things.

Sticking your arm out of the field would be messy, as it'd act like the
drive had been cut... RIPPP! 

Photons entering the field should either be unaffected, or be
refracted. I think we want unaffected for Traveller. For a "Lensman"
type universe, I'd go for refracted, with the speed *increasing* inside
the field, with 100% giving "infinite" velocity (and thus explaining
how a "free" ship could exceed lightspeed.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:25:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught (surface area)

In mail you write:

> Since the server seems to have gone down before this reply got through,
> I'm going to send it again.  Apologies if you get it twice.
>
> On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> > On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Clark Crawford wrote:
>> >
>> > Haven't seen a rule saying that you can't add material to the hull for 
> the
>> > purpose of increasing its area -- it seems logical.
>> 
>> True, but it isn't as easy as you'd think. 
>> 
>> Since the hull is in a vacuum, that means that any added surface area
>> that can "see" any other area of the hull is *wasted* to the extent
>> that it sees the other part of the hull. This is because the radiated
>> heat would just get picked back up by that other part of the hull.
>
> Good point -- I missed that.  Do you think we could use ridged surfaces
> for radiators?  The ridges are angled 45 degrees to the plane of the hull,
> 90 degrees to one another (or more, to account for diffracted rays).  All
> the ridge planes that don't have a normal line intersecting some other
> part of the ship can be used for radiators.  If the hull is carefully
> designed (by our Imperial architect characters), we will not have any
> wastage of the bonus area gained from the ridges.

But you will. 

      \            /
        \        /
          \    /
            \/  

The above isn't all *that* accurate, but with a 90 degree angle, you
lose *half* the possible "sky" until you get to an angle where the
"ray" misses the "facing" radiator.

The radiation pattern is a *hemisphere* at any given point on the
radiator. In the center this works out as a plane wave. but at the
*edges* it doesn't.

It turns out that radiators joined at any angle *other* than 180
degrees lose *some* efficiency.
>
>> So the added area has to be things like "fins" running the length of
>> the hull (don't forget to count the area of *both* sides). But you
>> can't have more than 4 of them or you are back to the "facing each
>> other" problem.

I goofed here. 4 is better than a larger number, and 3 is better than
4, but *2* is the best answer. So you have 4, and only *use* two two on
opposite sides at any given time.

> We can probably get away with only one fin in many cases, if the ridge
> technique can be used.  Other convolutions (narrowing, elongation,
> flattening) can also be used, either alone or in conjunction with the
> ridge technique, although I would not go so far as to modify the hull
> length formula.  We could come up with a pretty simple standard formula
> for increased surface area based on the geometry of the ridges, assuming
> they are used to replace a "flat" hull region of arbitrary dimensions.  Or
> we could just "fudge" it, to account for infinite variation in ridge size.

Again, the ridge idea is *less* efficient than a "flat" hull. It may
help to consider the sum of all individual points radiating. You do
this by (in effect) placing a compass set for a given radius at each
point on the surface of the radiator (in cross section) and drawing an
arc. The sum of the arcs is the wave front. The farther out from the
hull you get, the closer the wavefront come to the one you'd get
*without* the ridges.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:15:26 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Semo wrote:
> 
> >Hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
> >Just nod if you can hear me.
> >Is there anyone at home?
> 
> Hey!  Are we back?  When the list first disappeared, I thought it was the
> wrath of Grandfather for my smarting off to Harold Hale about _Aliens 4_ --
> which message apparently never got delivered, anyway <G>.  So I've been
> forced to amuse myself by designing Aliens(tm) sushi and recoil simulation
> tests for pelvic-mounted firearms.  Details will follow unless cyberwrath
> intervenes.

I thought some Secret Service rushed into the MPGN Office and withheld 
all material on the lists as they did with Steve Jackson Games.

Or MJ-12 misinterpreted some posting about the Hive ...

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:35:17 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Virus and patchable computers

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Scott Ellsworth wrote:

[sniped by the sniper]

> I do think there is a problem with it making anything much below TL14 self
> aware, because that makes the "AI is TL 17" rule less sensible, but this is
> a different argument.
> 
> NB, I do not like the Virus for game play reasons, which is why I do not
> use it, but the core idea of a secret war weapon computer virus that could
> infect high tech systems and infiltrate in a malicious way does not seem
> out of line.
> 

I think of virus in a quite other way. I still do not play with it, as my 
group is not in the new era (yet). But I liked the idea to bring one of 
it once into the campaign, not as weapon, but as character.
I think some way further into the new era timeline. What if Virus begins 
to build an own alliance/confederation/imperium? There was the 'mother' 
type virus, which not fights but protects its crew. (Seems to be a kind 
of LEXX ...) The possibility of virus as NPC (or even PC) could lead to a 
fine plot device, but you must not overuse it ...
I am sure, this would change the fabric of the Traveller Universe quite a 
lot, but the future still is not written.

> 
> This is a truth, and affects all game designers.  Unfortunately, unless you
> provide a consistent background, players have trouble reacting, and if you
> do, then you run that risk.  My game, like many here, has this a lot,
> because all of use are computer types, and we have two physicists and two
> mathematicians playing, thus they are very good at working the system.
> 
Tell me more, I lead a group of chemists. I know that situation, but I 
managed to tone the science discussions down (for the sake of the two 
non-scientist players of the group), as I don't refer to it myself that 
often.

> Referring to another thread, this is why I kind of like the technological
> conservativism in Traveller - it makes it possible to keep things under
> some level of control.  I have a small chance of guessing what people are
> going to use the cool tech for.
> 
Not even to guess what the GM uses the ideas for ...

Greetings from L.A.

How many ways are there to solve the problem? -
Always one more than the GM thinks of.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:42:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

> > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:49:57 -0600
> > From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
> 
> > 	You know, I've always been a little disappointed by the direction
> > the series took after Aliens.  When you think about it, the Aliens are a
> > little too... tailored to prey on humanity than random natural selection in
> > separate ecologies should reasonably allow.  If you were setting out to
> > design a critter to deal with humans, it'd be hard to come up with better.
> > 
> > 	Were I to have been writing the series, it would have turned up
> > that the critters were bioweapons to begin with...  some rather
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > non-confrontational but decidedly hostile ETs just cooked them up, left
> > them where humans would be sure to find them, and sat back to watch the
> > fireworks.
> > 
That's how I saw it all the time. It is not logical that a devastating 
lifeform like the Alien evolves to such a high state on a natural way.
It would have destroyed all of its environment long before reaching a 
standard that high. I always supposed it was a weapon created by the 
alien pilot's race (or his enemies). That the humans are that good fodder 
for them can be explained that Alien was designed to prey upon a wide 
variety of different life forms. So the humans are not a special form, 
only one of much.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:12:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Hmm.

Are you sure that the server wasn't brought down by the Templars to stop
the Near-C rock and Virus threads?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:15:55 -0400
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Letter from IG

I also got a letter from IG, but it states that they "will not be
supporting the Citizens of
the Imperium organization."

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:22:54 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Letter from Imperium Games

Doug Berry wrote:

>I'd go for that $2000 book, sounds like a winner.  :)

Did you know that it is "Starships" printed on gold leaf? ;-)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:26:50 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Testing 123...

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>> will my message bounce back to me??
>> <Poof> you're a hamster!
>
>Someone remember to feed Bruce, and clean his cage! ;D

And give him something to chew on to keep his teeth in tip top condition.....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:49:17 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2144 (fwd)

Eaten by the disk crash...:

On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Larry Hadley wrote: (regarding Virus and e-mailed
ones)

 >    Examples, please.
> 
>    The only occurance of such that I know of, is the infamous "Word
> virus" that allegedly spreads itself through email. As anyone that knows
> anything about computers already knows, that isn't really  a virus - it's
> actually a Trojan and does not contain any real executable code. It also
> requires a very specific application to be installed on the target
> computer and does NOT replicate itself. (a key requirement for true virii)

Ok, lets dissect this one a little bit...

A) Macro viruses _DO_ contain executable code, most are merely
content to spread themselves around, but MS Word basic does have the
ability to get out there and mess with the file system. Examples that do
disrupt the 'host' are rare, for the simple reason that messing with a
Win95 host usually means the standard "nuke and reinstall" response to
virtually any Win95 problem. This means, essentially that the virus
'kills' it's host before it gets a chance to spread. This is one
reason that most computer viruses actually do damage very rarely, so
as to enable them to spread.

B) ALL computer viruses require 'a very specific application' to be
installed on the target computer, it's called 'the operating system'.
This is why current computer viruses (with one exception) are OS specific.
There are Mac viruses (37 of them) Unix viruses (two or three), Apple II
viruses (probably the earliest viruses written and released into the wild,
circa 1977 or so), and all the hordes of MS-DOS viruses. There are a few
Windows and Windows95 specific viruses.

Because, by definition, the OS is a program you are running all the time,
in the background, you 'open' regular viruses just like you open a Word
document, which either invalidates your definition of viruses, by making
them _all_ trojans (you have to execute code to have them function) or
macro viruses are indeed viruses. 

The example I used, of having my system set up to recognize and open word
documents automatically, when encountered in e-mail or web browsing makes
them essentially, the same as any other computer virus...when encountered
under the right conditions, it automatically infects your system.

Macro virii are the only _non OS specific_ viruses existing, in that they
can infect Word and Excel on both platforms they run on. (ThankYEW Unca'
Billy...in one fell swoop the virus population that could infect a Mac
went from 37 to thousands...) 

C) They sure as hell replicate themselves!!!! Once you get one on your
system, every document you create or open gets infected with the macro
code. This is how we're seeing the main transmission of the virus. Hell,
we got one copy off of a disk that was mailed to us by a national Pharmacy
association.  They sent out dozens, if not hundreds of disks like that.

NIH sends out their grant applications as large, macro driven Word
documents, in one format. I can't _wait_ till they send one out with a
macro virus...Word asks now, as of Word97, if you want to open a document
that contains a macro because it might be infected...since you know it
does contain a legitimate macro...

I think, however, at the heart of this argument, is that people have some
picture of computers in Traveller as PC-XT's writ large. They are not! 
This makes studying computer viruses today as an example of what Virus is
comparable to studying bear attacks to cope with an Ebola outbreak. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:05:37 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: List HQ -- Status  Update

>On Sunday, December 7, our mailing list processor, web page, and ftp
>archive machine lost a hard drive.

Anyone else note the significance of the date?

I've never heard of a "Tora, Tora, Tora" virus, but I can imagine...

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:04:08 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Journal es muerto

So the Journal is dead...AGAIN!

Isn't this sort of like the beginning of the long night?

Megatraveller were the First Imperium
TNE was the Terran Confederation
T4 is the Ramshackle Empire

Welcome the new Long Night; maybe GURPS Traveller will be the true Milieu
Zero

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:03:27 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Tiny particles = tiny weapons

Yet another resend.

>At 04:17 PM 12/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>Keychain light sabers, anyone?
>>
>>There doesn't appear to be any regulation of ROF for toroidal PAW's, nor does
>>there seem to be a minimum size for the tunnel. Input power is the only real
>>limiting factor on how much you can crank out of these micro-toroids.
>Given the
>>power outputs of very small power supplies at higher TL's, why haven't CPAW's
>>replaced CSlug small arms completely?
>>
>>Or did I miss something obvious?
>>
>>
>>
>
>How about miniturized componants, each slightly out of 'phase' with each
>other, but still working together as a unit?  Hypothetically, many
>componants may occupy the same spatial coordinates but are separated
>dimensionally.  This would allow for intense miniturization of power
>sources and weapons.
>
>What do you all think?

FWEEP FWEEP!  You are penalized for genre crossover violations of the
vilest kind.  "Out of phase" indeed, "Light Sabers" Bah! (spit)...You are
sentanced to 30 minutes in the TML Penalty Box and also to test firing a
Sayat Pelvic Mount Plasma Projector without the customary human protective
devices.

Obviously, the reason that cpaws haven't replaced slug weapons in the 3I is
that...they haven't.  Not in CSC, Not in the Megatraveller Encyclopedia,
not in Mercenary, not in Smash and Grab.  Whadddaya want?  all of future
history is agin ya?

How obvious can it be?

I would guess that we will see (probably from the trav-tech mailing list
originally) some rule analagous to the TL*50 laser rule to limit PAW size
to a certain minimum.

Of course, the other defense is that particle beams tend to generate some
quantity of nasty radiation when used.  Ah, you counter, but its always
fired from within ABD right?  At any rate, radiation problems will
definitely limit the usefulness of such a weapon.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2150
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2151



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught
Re: New Topics - Suggestion
re.Aliens are Bioweapons?
Nolikian class Battle Rider
Battle Tender
Re: List HQ -- Status Update
Re: Journal es muerto
Der Tod des Journals [was Re: Journal es muerto]
Mailing List Archive
Re: Suggestion * Traveller Virtual Archive
Embrace Fascism. The uniforms look cool.
Re: Near C rock fix proposal
FF&S2 errata?
TTC Rides Again! [was: Re: Letter from IG]
Lost Bridge Plug Reply
Re: ping!
Re: Letter from IG
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Force fields
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: Journal es muerto
Re : PMPP field-testing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:02:51 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught

Note: This message originally sent and bounced (I think).  Apologies if its
a repeat.

Leonard Ericson Wrote;
>In mail you write:
>
>> On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Clark Crawford wrote:
>>
>>> as a flattening or narrowing, phlanges, etc.).
>>
>> Sorry, that should be "flanges" -- I meant to look it up and got
>> distracted, so I sent the mail to avoid forgetting it later.  My use of it
>> doesn't quite agree with the dictionary, but the general concept works --
>> some kind of ridge or convolution that adds area without adding volume --
>> like radiator fins for the power plant, or a tower for the sensors.
>>
>> Haven't seen a rule saying that you can't add material to the hull for the
>> purpose of increasing its area -- it seems logical.
>
>True, but it isn't as easy as you'd think.
>
>Since the hull is in a vacuum, that means that any added surface area
>that can "see" any other area of the hull is *wasted* to the extent
>that it sees the other part of the hull. This is because the radiated
>heat would just get picked back up by that other part of the hull.
>
>So the added area has to be things like "fins" running the length of
>the hull (don't forget to count the area of *both* sides). But you
>can't have more than 4 of them or you are back to the "facing each
>other" problem.

Would radiated heat be perfectly absorbed?  Even if the fins were not
parallel to one another?  I would expect there to be some "heat loss" even
if two radiating surfaces were facing each other across a small gap and
placed at exactly the same angle, if the gap were large and/or the angle of
seperation greater than 0 but less than 90 degrees I would guess (and I am
guessing) that there would be a greater amopunt of heat actually radiated
and not absorbed.

Meanwhile, lets talk about surface area.  Battle Riders (in CT) were always
of the configuration type "dispersed structure".  I would say that any time
the configuration is an easily visualized shape; wedge, needle, cylinder,
etc, the shape must follow the surface area rules as written.  The use of a
'dispersed structure', however, implies that there are projections and
gantries sticking out any which way, making, in the process, airframe or
streamlined hulls an impossibility, but allowing just about any quantity of
surface area one would wish for.

For example, I always wanted to build a ship that was "modular" in nature.
Imagine a long central spine made of tubular construction crystaliron
"gantries" with mounts for a variable number of fuel storage tanks,
habitation modules, cargo containers, and propulsion and/or jump drive
units.  All the structural components are open to space, and if I run fluid
through the center of the tubular elements I have a tremendous amount of
radiating surface area.  I can add jump drive, cargo space, passenger
space, etc at will...as long as certain engineering problems of balance
around the axis of thrust, and jump grid coverage are met...making this the
ultimate in flexible sized starships.  What configuration is this vessel?
How much surface area is there?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:11:54 -0800
From: The J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: New Topics - Suggestion

At 11:20 PM 12/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>    I've been working on various ideas for the  couple of campaigns  that I
>GM and I thought that I'd drop a note to  the list and see what all the
>other GM's have done in the same  vein.   Has anyone created their own
>races, based upon ?  favorite books? serial novels? movies? tv shows?    
>Please advise. Inquiring Minds want to know.   Thanks Pat Connaughton   

I have created a personal catalog of over 500 alien races from many
sources.  The stats are a combo of Classic Traveller and Gamma World, as I
combined the two games for my gaming universe.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Dec 97 09:29:57 EST
From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller)
Subject: re.Aliens are Bioweapons?

- --- Master Elliot wrote:
Then there's the fact that alien genetics are so close to humans
(and dogs) that they can splice DNA together; the chest-burster/adult
aliens are based at least in part upon their hosts (rottweilers, humans),
and Ripley v.8.0/Alien v.2.0.  I have a real hard time buying evolutionary
convergence on this one.
- --- end of quote ---
I surmised from the start that the organism was so adaptable that it could host
in anything it could grab onto, assuming the grabbed wasn't capable of eating
it outright. An example of a non-human genetic base that was shown to have been
affected was the 'elephant man' in the first movie; it clearly had a burster
exit-hole. Also, the egg farm in the bowels of the elephant ship would have had
to have been introduced by a 'queen', which presumably would have taken some of
the genetic characteristics of its host but laid eggs that adapted quite well
to the next beings on-site, in this case humans.

The facehugger does seem to work awfully well for a top-down oxy-breathing
life-form, but I suspect one could make a good argument that this thing would
adapt to its target pretty quickly, and ram that ovipositor wherever it would
seem to do the most good.

...."umm, Grink? Grink, Zorp here. I was just making my way down into the hold
of the derelict we found and some little pod popped open and something hopped
out. It seems to be trying to pick my nose. Did you bring any extra
Exo-BanTM?"....

- -j

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:21:14 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Nolikian class Battle Rider

The following is a FF&S2 reconstruction of the Nolikian class battle
rider found in the "Spinward Marches Campaign" sourcebook. I was trying
to test the battle rider concept using FF&S2.

For those who want it, here's the original HG stats:

BR-L106QJ3-B39905-299N9-0        MCr9,268.25      20,000 tons
            8   1 C121C                                 TL=15
            8   1 C121C                              Crew=690
Passengers=0. Low=150. Cargo=0. Fuel=5,000. Agility=6. Troops=81.
Fuel Scoops. Fuel Purification Plant. One Frozen Watch. One
Auxilliary Bridge. 4 Gunboats.

Conversion notes: I converted the ship as follows:
  Size is the same.
  Laser batteries = laser turets.
  Sand batteries = sand turrets.
  Energy batteries = laser bay
  Repulsor = high ROF laser bay
  Paritcle batteries = paralell mounts
  Meson spinal = I designed the rest of the ship, and then shoved the
biggest meson gun I could into it.
  I assume the gunboats are 50tons (it does say above).

Note: this is a TL15 design, so its not applicable to M:0

Nolikian class Battle Rider

Tons: 20,000std (SL Wedge Hypersonic).
Volume: 280,000m3
Mass (L/C): 481,439t/470,782t
Dimensions: 204.5m x 140.4m 58.4m
Size: 10
Crew: 521/721
Passengers High/Medium: 0/0
Passengers Low: 0
Troops/Science: 0/0
Frozen Watch: 361 (1 group)
Cargo: 0std
Cost: 40,889.390MCr
Maintenance Points: 11,422
TL: 15

Controls: Holographic, Standard Automation. 3xFibComp (CM:0.2, CP:5.0).
  Bridge. Backup Bridge.
Commo: 1xRadio (1000AU, .2MW). 1xLaser (1000AU, 0MW).
  1xMeson (1000AU, 5MW).
Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm], .5MW). 1xAEMS (12 [1.6mkm], 10MW).
  30xLIDAR (15.5 [5mkm], 4MW).
ECM: 1xArea Jammer (12, 500MW). 1xDecp. Jammer (12, 1MW).
  1xPassive Jammer (15, .5MW).
Signatures: Vis: -1, IR: .5 (.5 at 84,129MW), Active: 0, Neutrino: 0
  Grav 2

Jump: 0
Maneuver: 6.3/6.4 Manuver (/Thruster:75,600MW)
Contra-Grav: 1.0/1.0 (8,092MW)
Atmosphere: 5,000kph/5,000kph (/Crus:3,750kph/3,750kph)
Power: 10 (/Fusion:99,600MW,1.0)
Fuel: 711.4 (/Scoop:1 /Purification:6,51MW)
Accomodations: 0/620/101/361/0
Life Support: 5,768 (/Type:St,Ex /Storage)
G-Comp: 6
Sandcasters: 8 (/AV:80 /Cans:30)
Damper Screen: 400 (53MW)
Meson Screen: 598 (223.5MW)
Armor: 120 [1,500]
Structure: 50

Weaponry
  13xBeam MFD (500kkm)
  12xLaser Turrets (+0) 1/2-2-2-2 [1,100/38-38-38-38] (LR)
  1xLaser Bay (+6) 1/4-4-4-4 [1,200/68-68-68-68] (LR)
  1xAnti-Missile Laser (+6) 1/4-2-0-0 [2,800/22-22-22-22] (LR)
  12xMissile Bays Auto 6/6 (/Mag:72 /MFD:500kkm)
    w/118 Command Det Laser 1d6/2 6G12 500kkm
  2xParticle Cannon (+6) 2/7-7-7-4 [1,400/145-145-145-72] (LR)
  1xMeson Spinal (+6) 2/11-9-6-3 [1,100/769-400-200-100] (LR)

Features
  200xAirlock
  4xDecontamination Airlock
  2xDocking Umbilical
  5xElectronic Shop (6std ea.)
  5xMachine Shop (10std ea.)
  10xSickbay (8std ea.)
  2xShip's Locker (10std ea.)
  17xPrisoner Capacity (10/5/2)
  2xArmory (2.86std ea.)
  10xGym(2.5std ea.)
  2xOrdinary Gallery (Cap:155)
  2xFull Gallery (Cap:25)

Small Craft
  4xMinimal Hangar (50std, 4 hatches)

Backups
  Commo: 2xRadio (500kkm). 2xLaser(500kkm). 2xMeson(500kkm).
  Sensors: 2xPEMS (14 [50mkm]). 2xAEMS(11.5 [.5mkm]).
  ECM: 2xArea Jammer(11). 2xDecp. Jammer(11). 2xPassive Jammer(14).

Crew:
  7xMnvr. 2xElec. 389xEngr. 22xMain. 81xGunn. 15xScrn. 10xFlgt. 
  80xTrps. 101xCmnd. 24xStew. 5xMed.

Analysis:
  Kindof weapon light, perhaps - but I was trying to match the HG
version. Everything pretty much matches the HG version except the price
- - this thing is MUCH more expensive than the original.
  
  
- -- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:31:47 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Battle Tender

As a test of the FF&S system, I've been trying to recreate some of the
old HG designs - in particular, the Battle Rider/Tender concept. The
problem originated from an analysis of surface area (needed for the
battle rider grapples) - I couldn't convince myself that I could design
a BT that could carry a squadron of BRs.

So, I set out to design the Lurenti BT/Nolikian BR tender/rider squadron
found in the "Spinward Marches Campaign" suorce book.

The Nolikian design was doable (I posted the results to TML).

But there is no way to design the Lurenti so that it matches the HG
version (300,000tons - 200x50 ton fighters, 7x20,000 ton riders). There
isn't enough area for the riders, and not enough volume for the fighters
(since I assume they're carried internal - the idea of 200 external
fighters seems silly to me).

For the record, here's the HG stats

CB-T7425J4-099909-99999-200   MCr23.056   300,000tons
            Y   9 KKKKZ                         TL=15
            Y   9 KKKKZ                    Crew=2,086  
Passengers=0. Low=1,000. Cargo=500. Fuel=75,000. EP=15,000.
Agility=1. Troops=100. 200 Fighters. 7 Battle Riders.

I can't seem to get it to work.

I think we need to come up with some rules for pylons or struts for
external features like Battle Riders.

- -- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:56:59 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: List HQ -- Status Update

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> >On Sunday, December 7, our mailing list processor, web page, and ftp
> >archive machine lost a hard drive.
> 
> Anyone else note the significance of the date?
> 
> I've never heard of a "Tora, Tora, Tora" virus, but I can imagine...

Strangely, the Main Server in my city went down nearly on the same weekend.
As I heard of another TML member, in his city a similar event happened, too.
Is it possible that the posting of too much virus articles created one?

L.A.

'The fact that I'm paranoid doesn't say they are _not_ behind me!' 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:56:40 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Journal es muerto

Glenn Crawford wrote:
> 
> So the Journal is dead...AGAIN!
> 
> Isn't this sort of like the beginning of the long night?
> 
> Megatraveller were the First Imperium
> TNE was the Terran Confederation
> T4 is the Ramshackle Empire
> 
> Welcome the new Long Night; maybe GURPS Traveller will be the true Milieu
> Zero

What was CT, then? The reign of the Ancients?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:01:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Der Tod des Journals [was Re: Journal es muerto]

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Glenn Crawford wrote, and I modified:

Traveller and Megatraveller were the First Imperium at its height
TNE was the Ramshackle Empire
T4 is the Sylean Federation
GURPS Traveller will be the true Milieu Zero

The last sentence confirmed? 
Is history repeating?
I hope not,

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:17:52 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Mailing List Archive

As I fetched the Traveller Digests at MPGN, I saw that the files
v1997.n2125, 2126, 2127, 2140 and 2141 are missing.
Is this due to the crash or don't they exist anyway?

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:03:12 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Suggestion * Traveller Virtual Archive

V.A.G wrote:
> 
> >
> > All you have to do is add the category names to your
> > Traveller pages, as META tags (for example).  I suppose
> > the keywords might also have to be in the page title
> > or header, yes?
> >
> > There might be one hurdle.  We might have to decide on
> > category names.  However, I hope this won't really be
> > much of a problem.
> >
> > Opinions, suggestions?
> 
> Use MegaTraveller as a metatag for all page (Mega, CT or TNE alike),
> as MegaTraveller is unlikely to be used in another context.

I would prefer TravellerRPG as a metatag. It is generic enough to be
applied to all Traveller Role-playing forms (even GURPS ;) ) but
specific enough that it wouldn't be confused with sites offering free
trips to Maui.

> Categories would include anything with the prefix Trav.

I think tacking a prefix on the categories is unnecessary, if every page
also includes the metatag. You simply search for occurances of *both*
the metatag and the category. For example, if you're looking for
deckplans you search for "TravellerRPG" and "deckplans".

Tacking on "Trav" wastes a precious 4 bytes of bandwidth per search
term. ;P

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:12:20 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Embrace Fascism. The uniforms look cool.

In tribute to dberry's .signature, I've started working on "Imperial
Guards" in my series of Sylean raytraces.
You can see the current working model of our jack-booted guardians at
attention at
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/imperial.htm

Cheers,
Jo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:18:34 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Near C rock fix proposal

>Subject: Near C rock fix proposal

I was reading a book the other night, though I can't remember the name 
of it.  Might have been the Gamester Wars...  Anyway, one individual 
started a war by surprise attack.  He had several A'Shiga assassins take 
a 1,000 ton merchant, come out of jump at speed, and continue 
accelerating straight into the planet....approaching at 0.1 C, I 
believe.  It tore the planet up.  The only way his enemy survived was 
that his bodyguard had been watching the scanners and noticed the 
approaching ship.  He sounded the alarm and piled everyone into the ship 
he had already been warming up due to misgivings about their 
situation...  Even then they were almost destroyed by the shock waves 
and would have died had not another ship arrived and landed on their 
crippled ship.

Should be easy to take a relic merchant (2,000 dtn) and drive it into a 
planet....or wouldn't it work that way?

Greg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:30:59 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: FF&S2 errata?

*NOTE* This is a re-send from Monday. Please note I'm feeling a LOT better 
now, but I decided not to change the message.


	Is there any errata available for FF&S2?

	In particular, does anyone have the price for Endurance life support 
(Table 209), instead of a bunch of "??"s?

	hmmph. And I needed those numbers for my K'kree battleship design...

K.C. Komosky
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca
who's really stressed out over his first law exams, and THOUGHT that 
goofing around with Traveller might relieve some tension. Fat chance with 
idiot mistakes like that in it.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:37:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: TTC Rides Again! [was: Re: Letter from IG]

douglas asks:

>Sooooo....
>
>Are there any other magazines supporting T4 - i.e. bringing new ideas for
>equipment and adventures to the
>majority of GMs who are NOT represented on this list?
>
>Seems that there may just be an opportunity here...  ;)

   Now that you mention it...

   Traveller Chronicle is back in the saddle after some down time after a
change in editors.  The latest issue (#13) will be arriving back from the
printers just before Christmas and will begin shipping before the end of the
year.

   If you have articles, adventures, ***artwork***, or other things
Traveller (classic, Mega, TNE, T4, varient) that you would like to see in
print, please e-mail me for details.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:17:18 -0700
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Lost Bridge Plug Reply

This got lost in the great crash...

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
[snippage]

>Note that in both cases, the results are the same. Either you get away
>with the trick (in the first case), or you are captured as prisoners
>(in the second case). So where's the advantage in the pod?

I realise that the best place for a bridge is "dead center" of a ship, but
in smaller vessels with only a few decks, that's not a problem. On larger
ships, I agree that leaving a path for such an item is not feasible unless
you're willing to make some sacrifices to other factors.

Also, the plug is not intended to be a lifeboat for an injured ship. It is
a last ditch effort to save the bridge crew on a ship suffering
catastrophic damage (read: the big kabluey). Pilots in fighters don't eject
unless staying in their aircraft is going to kill them. I'd imagine this
would have similar rules.


Schoon

PS, I'm starting to get a better grip on design these days, so I'm likely
to give it whirl...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:09:09 -0800
From: douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: ping!

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > Are we live yet!
>
> No.
>
> This is a recording....
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

 Darn!  It really is a pain trying to tell if it's live or just memorex...  ;)

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:39:51 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Letter from IG

douglas <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:

>Sooooo....
>
>Are there any other magazines supporting T4 - i.e. bringing new ideas for
>equipment and adventures to the
>majority of GMs who are NOT represented on this list?
>
>Seems that there may just be an opportunity here...  ;)

The Traveller Chronicle editor Harold Hale is taking submissions for all
Traveller genres (TNE, T4, CT, etc.).

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:04:12 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

>>Woo hoo!!!! It's alive! IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!!!
>
>"Woo Hoo"  Minbari phrase meaning "only 30 seconds?"

Actually, it's Aslan -- an insult used extensively by an emmisary named
Hobbes when mocking a six-year-old (and self-described genius) Solomani's
plots for fame, glory, and world domination.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:04:14 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Force fields

Two quick questions about black globes:

1). I assume that a black globe operates pretty much like very advanced
stealth coating -- no bounces from active radar and the like. My question
is how effective passive sensors would be. I assume that the chance of
occluding a distant object would be fairly negligible, but I am sure I am
wrong in this (because I am so often wrong :-). What about detecting globes
against, say, the background radiation of the universe? Would that work?
How about densitometers? Does a force field prevent a sensor of this sort
from detecting the ship so protected?

2). Is a white globe really black? What I mean is, does it look black?
Surely it isn't glowing white (and thus a shining beacon).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:07:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

Kenji Schwarz writes:

>Hey!  Are we back?  When the list first disappeared, I thought it was the
>wrath of Grandfather for my smarting off to Harold Hale about _Aliens 4_ --
>which message apparently never got delivered, anyway <G>.

   Clearly it was the wrath of Grandfather for my smartass remarks about
Wynona Ryder.  Perhaps it was just a warning shot...so...

   I promise never to discuss any secretions of any kind which might emanate
from Ms. Ryder or any of her characters again.  I promise to do homage at a
Wynona Ryder Web site and beg forgiveness from her image.  I further promise
that I will not mention how good Ms. Weaver looks buffed out and clad in
leather nor will I ever again state that seeing Ms. Weaver in such a state
is a reason to pay double to see any film.

   There, the list should once again function normally.

Regards,

Harold

:-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:19:33 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Journal es muerto

Glenn Crawford wrote:

>So the Journal is dead...AGAIN!
>
>Isn't this sort of like the beginning of the long night?
>
>Megatraveller were the First Imperium
>TNE was the Terran Confederation
>T4 is the Ramshackle Empire
>
>Welcome the new Long Night; maybe GURPS Traveller will be the true Milieu
>Zero

Only metaphorically speaking since the GURPS version deals with an
alternative Classic-Era universe in which Strephon's ceremonial double was
not assassinated.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:28:54 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re : PMPP field-testing

>Kengi,
>
>I just have three questions ...

Arthur, King of the Britons; blue; and do you mean an African -- er, oh.

>(1) are you going to Arisia ?

Doubtful... not knowing what it is, the odds of my stumbling across it are
slim <G>.  What/where is it, and what is there?

>(2) do you live in or near San Francisco ?

No, up the coast in Seattle, actually.  The smaller, rainier, more inbred
version of SF.

>and (3) would a PMPP have static electric effects from the intense magnetic
>fields ... I am kind of thinking purple wand, but a lot lot lot worse.

WOW.  Well, it does _now_.  Have to admit, I hadn't thought of that before...
Ominous rising whine as it powers up, accompanied by blue-sparking static
electricity making the bearer's hair stand on end... the baleful red glare
of the targeting laser winks on and peeps past the concealing kevlar
overcoat... lurid violet electricity crackles and crawls around the hip
area... cheery beep! when it's fully charged... nearby espresso machines
malfunction... Moral Majoritarians within range fall into apopleptic
fits...

I think I'm going to the hardware store after work.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2151
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

Traveller-digest     Friday, December 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2152



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:  TML digest 2150
Re: Re : PMPP field-testing
Can YOU be bought?  For how much?
Re: Fw: Traveller ships and Imperial Squadrons
Re: Letter from IG
Re: Embrace Fascism. The uniforms look cool.
Re: Force fields
Re : PMPP field-testing
Re: Near C rock fix proposal
Electronical transmission of lifeforms
Re: Tiny particles = tiny weapons
Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught (surface area)
Traveller Fanzine
Talk of Viru#@%*%*$#
Re: Force fields
Re: Force fields
Spofulam research site?
Re: Battle Tender
Keepin' up with reality...
Re: macro viruses, VM viruses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:23:06 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  TML digest 2150

Thank you to those who responded. I now have digest 2150 (pre-crash)

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:42:20 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Re : PMPP field-testing

At 09:33 PM 12/12/97, you wrote:
>
>Kengi,
>
>I just have three questions ...
>
>(1) are you going to Arisia ?
>
>(2) do you live in or near San Francisco ?

Hey, I live *in* San Francisco, and can't afford Arisia if I'm going to
GenCon next summer.

Which brings up a question.. how many of us are planning on being at GenCon
98?  It'd be nice to be able to start arraigning get togethers and shared
crash space now.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:31:25 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Can YOU be bought?  For how much?

Hello all,

The demise of JTAS got me thinking again about a long standing dream of
publishing gaming supplements.

I have been putting together some rough plans for what the cash flow should
be for a gaming company, run under slightly different assumptions than the
norm, and I am soliciting the list for information on what it takes to get
good authors.

There are really three major categories of expenses: overhead, printing,
and content creation.  I can get pretty good numbers on overhead by looking
about the office here, and by judicious references.  I can also get good
numbers on printing from a local graphic artist.  She has given me some
reasonable numbers for quantity 100, 500, 100, and 5000, perfect bound 24,
48, 96, and 130 page books from camera ready art.

This leaves one problem - the content.  I can write a fair piece, but it
seems clear to me that a company that depends on its own internal resources
is going to have to be very quick, or have a large backlog of material
before going to press that first year.  If they use outside authors with a
decent writer's guide, then they can publish as many documents as they have
the resources to, or as few.

So, on this list are some of the best authors in the gaming industry.  I
would like to solicit, publicly or privately, rough guidelines for what you
expect to be paid, and how.

Here is how I imagine things working:

Assume the authors are responsible for turning in content digitally, in an
agreed common form, they will get final proofs, and some reasonable amount
of cash is set aside to pay the original author to fix any resulting errors.

So, what would you [a prototypical author] charge to write the following
kinds of books:

1.  A 24 page small supplement.  Rules heavy
2.  A 48 page adventure or backgrounder
3.  A 96 page campaign sourcebook, including rules, adventures, and examples
4.  A 128 page major rule book

How does the idea of a residual change the picture?

Are you willing to revisit a book six months later, if you are paid to do
so, to update it in light of user feedback?

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:36:21 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Traveller ships and Imperial Squadrons

At 11:43 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I originally tried to send this Monday But it was eaten in route.
>
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
><miner deletion>
>>There is a product just released called Imperial Squadrons.  In it, you'll
>>find a couple of big ships designed by your humble servant.  I put in a
>>Destroyer Escort, a Carrier, an Armored Cruiser, and my favorite, the
>>90,000ton Coronation-class Battleship.
>
><and a bit more deleted>
>
>I certainly did like the write-up for these ships.  Unfortunately because
>your ships were incompletely detailed (no picture, no quality, etc.) on
>those inadequate starship cards (no blanks for price, fuel tankage, and so
>on)they seem misplaced in the Basic Campaigns chapter.  The ships would have
>been better off included with the Imperial Squadrons Campaigns chapter, the
>role playing part of the book. 

Yeah, I was a bit shocked when I saw what the ships had been reduced to
myself.  Never fear, as I find and update the designs, I'll post them here
for your amusement.

<snip>
>>By the way.. a near-C cookie to the first person to figure out the joke
>>behind the name of the Bass Straight DE.  Craig already knows, so he's
>>diqualified.
>
>I not so sure it's a good idea to be using too many of the jokes and/or 20th
>century references in Traveller products, after all you do recall how some
>people "loved" "Aliens of the Rim" for just this reason 8^)
>(and no I didn't get the joke, unless its just a combination of bass akwards
>and danm straght, but do appreciate the fact that it is there
>nonetheless)

The ship names, and how I got them.

The Coronation.  I wanted something "Imperial" for the leading Battleship,
and decided on a series of names based around the trappings of Royalty.
Other ships of the class could be Sceptre, Crown, Throne, Ascension, etc.

David R. Turner Fleet Carrier.  Named after a friend of mine who always
seems to have some sort of cold, which he gives to me.  He's a carrier, you
see...

Jerome Garcia Armored Cruiser.  Named for Jerry Garcia, of the Grateful
Dead.  my working name for this was the Fat Man, which was what we called
Jerry, so it stuck.

Bass Straight DE.  The big clue is the second ship named (the Gulf Breeze)
and the fact that they are named for early Terran Vilani contacts in the
First Interstellar war period.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:49:33 +0000
From: "Paul Rocchi" <paul_rocchi@sns.ca>
Subject: Re: Letter from IG

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, douglas wrote:
> Are there any other magazines supporting T4 - i.e. bringing new
> ideas for equipment and adventures to the majority of GMs who are
> NOT represented on this list? Seems that there may just be an
> opportunity here...  ;)

1) First, there's Traveller Chronicle - which I haven't seen 
recently, a very high-qualtity semi-prozine.

2) Frankly, I expect there to be a lot of GURPS: Traveller articles 
in Pyramid.

Perhaps some of the more 'vocal' posters might consider doing up 
articles for Pyramid and Shadis.


Paul Rocchi  SNS Shared Network Services Inc.
Paul_Rocchi@sns.ca (Business)
procchi@Total.net (Personal)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:47:23 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Embrace Fascism. The uniforms look cool.

At 03:12 PM 12/12/97 +0000, you wrote:
>In tribute to dberry's .signature, I've started working on "Imperial
>Guards" in my series of Sylean raytraces.
>You can see the current working model of our jack-booted guardians at
>attention at
>http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/imperial.htm

Ooooohhhh...... nice work, if a little dark on my monitor..

Can I *please* grap a copy of the anigif at the top?
- --

+--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net x
x   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+
|          Embrace Fascism.          x
x       The uniforms look cool       |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:01:19 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Force fields

>Two quick questions about black globes:
>

Oh, and one more thing. What if you fired up your force field while in jump
transit? Does the universe as we know it end?

(I am really interested in a pseudoserious answer to this)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:16:28 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re : PMPP field-testing

>Kengi,
>
>I just have three questions ...

Arthur, King of the Britons; blue; and do you mean an African -- er, oh.

>(1) are you going to Arisia ?

Doubtful... not knowing what it is, the odds of my stumbling across it are
slim <G>.  What/where is it, and what is there?

>(2) do you live in or near San Francisco ?

No, up the coast in Seattle, actually.  The smaller, rainier, more inbred
version of SF.

>and (3) would a PMPP have static electric effects from the intense magnetic
>fields ... I am kind of thinking purple wand, but a lot lot lot worse.

WOW.  Well, it does _now_.  Have to admit, I hadn't thought of that before...
Ominous rising whine as it powers up, accompanied by blue-sparking static
electricity making the bearer's hair stand on end... the baleful red glare
of the targeting laser winks on and peeps past the concealing kevlar
overcoat... lurid violet electricity crackles and crawls around the hip
area... cheery beep! when it's fully charged... nearby espresso machines
malfunction... Moral Majoritarians within range fall into apopleptic
fits...

I think I'm going to the hardware store after work.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:38:12 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Near C rock fix proposal

At 11:54 PM 12/11/97 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>> Rod Elliot wrote
>>>Greg Smith wrote:
>>>>Forgive ignorance.  near-c rock?
>> There is a simple solution, though it plays hell with entropy and
>> potential energy - create some handwave that explains why the rock does not
>> gather as much kinetic energy as it should.  Depending on the quality of
>> your handwave, you can have all sorts of results.
>>
>> My personal favorite is that the thruster plate drive actually reduces the
>> inertial mass of an object, and that it is the reduced inertial mass which
>> is so easy to move.  This works fine in most cases, but leads to two
>> questions:
>
>But it's still possible to build the 1000 km massdriver in the Oort
>cloud and boost nickel/iron "rocks" to 1.5% of c. That only takes cheap
>fusion power and the Famile Spofulam design team. :-)

Yep.  And that does not bother me at all, because once you have cheap
power, planets get kind of fragile.  As long as the average player does not
have these resources, I am happy.

(Consider - to build such a thing in the Oort cloud takes a lot of time,
and would be detected by most planetary sensors.  This means is may be
balanced enough for use.)

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:30:25 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Electronical transmission of lifeforms

**************************************************************************

Hello! I am a creature from a galaxy far away, visiting your planet. I
have transformed myself into this text file. As you are reading it, I
am having sex with your eyeballs. I know that you like it because you
are smiling. Please pass me to someone else because I am very horny.

**************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:34:01 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Tiny particles = tiny weapons

Peter Brenton wrote:

>Of course, the other defense is that particle beams tend to generate some
>quantity of nasty radiation when used.  Ah, you counter, but its always
>fired from within ABD right?  At any rate, radiation problems will
>definitely limit the usefulness of such a weapon.

Don't think of it as a "problem"... try to regard it as a "feature".

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:45:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught (surface area)

I left in a lot of quoted text because the context is getting involved.
First statement is a few pages down.

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >
> >> > On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Clark Crawford wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Haven't seen a rule saying that you can't add material to the hull for 
> > the
> >> > purpose of increasing its area -- it seems logical.
> >> 
> >> True, but it isn't as easy as you'd think. 
> >> 
> >> Since the hull is in a vacuum, that means that any added surface area
> >> that can "see" any other area of the hull is *wasted* to the extent
> >> that it sees the other part of the hull. This is because the radiated
> >> heat would just get picked back up by that other part of the hull.
> >
> > Good point -- I missed that.  Do you think we could use ridged surfaces
> > for radiators?  The ridges are angled 45 degrees to the plane of the hull,
> > 90 degrees to one another (or more, to account for diffracted rays).  All
> > the ridge planes that don't have a normal line intersecting some other
> > part of the ship can be used for radiators.  If the hull is carefully
> > designed (by our Imperial architect characters), we will not have any
> > wastage of the bonus area gained from the ridges.
> 
> But you will. 
> 
>       \            /
>         \        /
>           \    /
>             \/  
> 
> The above isn't all *that* accurate, but with a 90 degree angle, you
> lose *half* the possible "sky" until you get to an angle where the
> "ray" misses the "facing" radiator.
> 
> The radiation pattern is a *hemisphere* at any given point on the
> radiator. In the center this works out as a plane wave. but at the
> *edges* it doesn't.

Ah!  Okay, I get it now.  Thanks for the physics lesson.  I don't know
that much about thermodynamics (just a little applied math).  So we really
do need a relatively flat or convex surface for radiators.

> It turns out that radiators joined at any angle *other* than 180
> degrees lose *some* efficiency.
> >
> >> So the added area has to be things like "fins" running the length of
> >> the hull (don't forget to count the area of *both* sides). But you
> >> can't have more than 4 of them or you are back to the "facing each
> >> other" problem.
> 
> I goofed here. 4 is better than a larger number, and 3 is better than
> 4, but *2* is the best answer. So you have 4, and only *use* two two on
> opposite sides at any given time.
> 
> > We can probably get away with only one fin in many cases, if the ridge
> > technique can be used.  Other convolutions (narrowing, elongation,
> > flattening) can also be used, either alone or in conjunction with the
> > ridge technique, although I would not go so far as to modify the hull
> > length formula.  We could come up with a pretty simple standard formula
> > for increased surface area based on the geometry of the ridges, assuming
> > they are used to replace a "flat" hull region of arbitrary dimensions.  Or
> > we could just "fudge" it, to account for infinite variation in ridge size.
> 
> Again, the ridge idea is *less* efficient than a "flat" hull. It may
> help to consider the sum of all individual points radiating. You do
> this by (in effect) placing a compass set for a given radius at each
> point on the surface of the radiator (in cross section) and drawing an
> arc. The sum of the arcs is the wave front. The farther out from the
> hull you get, the closer the wavefront come to the one you'd get
> *without* the ridges.

Got it.  Ridges are a *bad* idea -- they cost money, add mass, and don't
gain you anything for any particular application. 

The other "fudge" convolutions (narrowing, elongation, flattening of the
cross-section) still have application here, though.

I'm going to carry on this thread in my reply to Andrew Akins' post.


Thanks,
Clark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:26:15 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller Fanzine

A little while ago I came up with an idea. I was keeping it quiet until I
had some more info, but this is it:

I thought of producing a 'zine dedicated to publishing Traveller fiction,
and asked about the legal side. Tim Brown has passed the query on to the
California office, so don't hold your breath for an answer, but the point
is that I think a zine is viable. I wanted to do one as an outlet for
fiction, but why not game materials?

So; yeah, I'm in.

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:59:30 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Talk of Viru#@%*%*$#

Funny how we were talking about Virus again and the TML collapses. Then the
Journal stops publishing. Then IG says the Citizens are on their own. 

Kinda sounds like the beginning to the New Era. 

Remember, no matter what happens to Traveller the game, Traveller the idea
will live on....
We keep the Flame, here on this list

And to answer the question posed to my previous post; Classic Traveller was
the Vilani before the First Imperium, having great potential but no big
picture

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:09:36 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Force fields

Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
> 
> Two quick questions about black globes:
> 
> 1). I assume that a black globe operates pretty much like very advanced
> stealth coating -- no bounces from active radar and the like. My question
> is how effective passive sensors would be. I assume that the chance of
> occluding a distant object would be fairly negligible, but I am sure I am
> wrong in this (because I am so often wrong :-). What about detecting globes
> against, say, the background radiation of the universe? Would that work?
> How about densitometers? Does a force field prevent a sensor of this sort
> from detecting the ship so protected?

I would have to defer to our resident sensor guru to confirm this, but
my intuition tells me you would need to be exceedingly close to a
'globed ship to notice it against background radiation. Wouldn't the
radiation "bend" around it, in front of it? If not, wouldn't there be
all kinds of "holes" from other "dark matter" in space? (deep space
asteroids, rogue comets, etc.)

As for densitomiters, I guess it depends on how you theorize that they
work. If they work by some graviton emission or somesuch, they could be
absorbed by the Black Globe.

> 2). Is a white globe really black? What I mean is, does it look black?
> Surely it isn't glowing white (and thus a shining beacon).

It's my understanding that white globes allow energy to escape, but
don't allow energy to enter. Therefore passive sensors should be able to
pick them up. I don't think they shine, they just emit the regular
radiation of the ship.

It seems to me, though, that they can be swiched to "Black Globe" mode,
if desired.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:09:59 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Force fields

Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
> 
> >Two quick questions about black globes:
> >
> 
> Oh, and one more thing. What if you fired up your force field while in jump
> transit? Does the universe as we know it end?

First rule of rpg'ing: Never make it easy to destroy the universe.

I would be seriously pissed if my life suddenly ended 'cuz some yahoo on
Sylea fired up his 'globe while in jumpspace.

Well, technically, I wouldn't be *pissed*, since I would instantaneously
cease to exist, but you get my drift...

> (I am really interested in a pseudoserious answer to this)

I would rule a misjump. Perhaps even catastrophic. Rationale: the black
globe absorbs the energy of the protective jumpspace field surrounding
the ship, making it impossible to remain in jumpspace.

Creative Ref's might use this as a rare, high tech and highly risky
method of circumventing the one week jump time limit. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:21:52 +-1100
From: Scott Levy <becubed@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Spofulam research site?

How could you resist a site with this as a title

Large-Scale Hypervelocity Impact Experiments Using the SHARP Gas Gun at Lawrence
Livermore National Laboratory 

or 

A Poor Man's Meteor Crater 


its at
http://www-igpp.llnl.gov/papers/SHARP/Top.html


Scott

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Battle Tender

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Andrew Akins wrote:

> As a test of the FF&S system, I've been trying to recreate some of the
> old HG designs - in particular, the Battle Rider/Tender concept. The
> problem originated from an analysis of surface area (needed for the
> battle rider grapples) - I couldn't convince myself that I could design
> a BT that could carry a squadron of BRs.

I tried some time ago to reverse engineer the heavy tenders in Battle
Rider (under FFS1).  I'm sure that I wasn't the first, but I encountered
the same problem.  Leonard Erickson raised some good points in the thread
for the "Behemoth" class.  Clearly, it is mathematically possible for us
to increase the surface area of any volume to an unlimited degree by
adding convolutions to the surface.  However, it is limited by structural
integrity requirements, and depending on the type of convolution, it may
not be useful surface area for all types of installations.  For example
(as Leonard pointed out), radiators need convex or flat surfaces facing
into space with no other hull forms facing them, and I mentioned before
that weapon and sensor emitters/antennae have similar needs.

> So, I set out to design the Lurenti BT/Nolikian BR tender/rider squadron
> found in the "Spinward Marches Campaign" suorce book.
> 
> The Nolikian design was doable (I posted the results to TML).
> 
> But there is no way to design the Lurenti so that it matches the HG
> version (300,000tons - 200x50 ton fighters, 7x20,000 ton riders). There
> isn't enough area for the riders, and not enough volume for the fighters
> (since I assume they're carried internal - the idea of 200 external
> fighters seems silly to me).

[snip HG stats -- I love HG, though, so thanks for the stats]

> I can't seem to get it to work.
> 
> I think we need to come up with some rules for pylons or struts for
> external features like Battle Riders.

Grapples are one type of installation for which we should be able to add
virtually any amount of surface area to the hull.  They don't involve
radiated energy of any sort.  Indeed, the illustrations in Battle Rider
seem to indicate that the riders are mounted on heavy booms of some type,
and I recall seeing similar illustrations in CT supplements. 

For the purpose of making surface area for installations that don't
involve energy emissions, we should allow the designer to add material
volume to the hull.  The radio of total surface area to volume should not
be allowed to exceed that of a small ship, to insure some modicum of
structural integrity.  Any suggestions on the limit? 

I think you will find that even this does not solve the battle tender
problem.  ;-)

There should also be a rule allowing extra surface area for systems that
emit energy, but it should be more limited than the previous rule.  The
limit could be based on a volume to surface area ratio (much less than the
above), or a maximum percentage increase.  The allowable increase should
be different for each configuration.  I'm not ready to suggest which type
of rule (ratio or percent) should be used at this point.  I'd rather wait
for feedback, because I don't know everything.  Again, this type of area
has to be more limited because it must be flat or convex, with as much
open space in front of it as possible.

Note that neither of these rules *have* to stipulate what geometric form
the convolutions take.  There are an infinite variety of such forms, for
any type of installation.  So we can avoid a lot of complex, specific
rules (like one for towers, one for elongation, one for flattening the
cross-section, etc.).

Has this topic been discussed on the list before?

I'm not a member of the trav-tech list, so I doubt that this message will
reach them (trying anyway).  If someone wants to forward it, that's fine
with me.

Thanks for listening.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:52:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Keepin' up with reality...

Todays missive:

from

 http://www.ple.af.mil/public/articles/971027lc.htm

Pictures and text.

also see the article at CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9712/12/t_t/laser.propulsion/index.html


"LASER PROPULSION RESEARCH FOR SPACE LAUNCH OF MICROSATELLITES


October 29, 1997

EDWARDS AFB CALIF --- The futuristic concept of a small laser-propelled
spacecraft has taken its first research flights
towards reaching space.

That progress has been measured by short flights of 2-20 seconds duration
at a military research facility using a high power
infrared (CO2) laser, a wavelength invisible to the naked eye. 

The achievement can be likened to Robert Goddard's first successful
flights of his liquid propellant chemical rocket that
attained a height of 41 feet after a 2 1/2 second burn in March of 1926.
In sharp contrast with Goddard's rockets, there is
absolutely no fuel on board this prototype laser-boosted craft, which has
a diameter of 15 cm, mass of 40-50 grams,
machined from a solid block of 6061-T6 aluminum."

The press release goes on to describe that the thing is powered by
'kilojoule' pulses at 10 pulses/second (that's what, 600 ROF in Trav
Terms?) turning air in the center of a parabolic reflector into high temp
plasma, the expansion of which drives the craft forwards.

They claim this is pollution free (I'd really not think about the
recombination products and other side reactions that will occur in the air
as the plasma cools, reforms back onto atoms and molecules.)

Oh, yeah...don't cross the beams, either!



Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:33:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: macro viruses, VM viruses

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Bruce Johnson wrote:

[lots of snippage; I only have one point to mention that directly relates
to the post, which is a very good one]

> Macro virii are the only _non OS specific_ viruses existing, in that they
> can infect Word and Excel on both platforms they run on. (ThankYEW Unca'
> Billy...in one fell swoop the virus population that could infect a Mac
> went from 37 to thousands...) 

Virtual machines (like the JVM, which is also being developed into an OS) 
are also platform-independent.  That's where all those holes in Netscape
and IE come from.  As software technology continues to advance, the number
and variety of virtual machines will continue to increase without bound. 
This is a significant danger, because most people won't even be cognizant
of the fact that they are running their software on a virtual machine, and
most anti-virus software doesn't target virtual machine code.  This is
likely to change in the future, but VMs add another layer of complexity to
the technology and the race will just get harder (i.e. require more outlay
of capital to effectively combat).

In 3I, with reconfigurable CPU pathways (although apparently still a
binary logic), you have the possibility of a dynamic VM loaded into the
hardware from secondary storage.  (Regardless of TL, it is quite probable
that there will always be the distinctions of primary storage, secondary
storage, and processing hardware).  If it is only software complexity that
limits the ability to produce AI, then it would be possible to create an
AI on lower TL hardware using this technique.  Since they did create AIs
on lower TL hardware, we might assume that this is the case.


Clark

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2152
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2153



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Force fields
Arrival Vengance and the other one
Re : PMPP field-testing
Re: Battle Tender
Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught
Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters
Re: Letter from IG
Re: Arrival Vengeance and the other one
Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught
Re: Battle Tender
WEB KEEPER
Fwd: Digest 2150
Re: Can YOU be bought?
Fwd: P. Engebos/TTC
Uncie Hengieeeee
IG Address
Re: Force fields
Re: IG Address

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:05:15 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Force fields

>I assume that the chance of
>occluding a distant object would be fairly negligible

I don't think it's completely negligible - but it will fall off pretty
quickly with range. A 1000-m black globe moving at 100 km/sec will
sweep out 20 square arcsecond per second or 10 square arcminutes per 
30-minute turn; there's certainly going to be a 15th magnitude star in 
that much area, which is around the threshold where a typical starship
sensor will be able to detect the blinking-out in the short time
available. Of course, there will be dozens of stars blinking out each turn
due to occultations due to Oort-cloud and Kuiper-belt comets...I can't think
of an easy way to distinguish one from another.
(Event duration and profile, maybe - the Oort objects are essentially
stationary.)
Of course it gets much harder to be detected if you're further away
and moving more slowly. 

>What about detecting globes
>against, say, the background radiation of the universe?
The 3K background radiation is too long-wavelength for this to work well; 
even my huge starship sensors won't resolve a fluctuation due to a 
1000-m object at 1 million km.

(Though I should check the math.)

What you will see is the starship against the local background - the 
zodiacal dust, which scatters sunlight and emits thermal IR. Again, I'd have
to do the numbers, but I think for a typical scanner this becomes practical
at tens or hundreds of thousands of km. (Maybe less.) If there is much
interest (how many people are playing TL-15?) I'll try and simulate this for
the next Definitive Sensor Rules.

Grav sensors/densitometers would definitely work - black globes don't
block gravity. There are rules for this in the DSR. It's an open question
whether they block neutrinos - as presented in TNE they wouldn't, but I 
don't know what the current technobabble is.

>2). Is a white globe really black? What I mean is, does it look black?
If you want you can always run it as a black globe (completely absorbing.)
In its radiating mode, it'd actually be very dull red - radiating all the
waste heat that would have been radiated by the radiators on the ship's
hull, over a larger surface area and more omnidirectionally. Add 0.5 to 
ship's passive signature.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 22:24:55 +0000
From: David Scott <Snail@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Arrival Vengance and the other one

Could someone please post a brief synopsis of these products, they =
are two I=B9m missing. I believe there were three folio size =
adventures brought out, there was Arrival Vengance and one about a =
research station made from an AHL cruiser (I think).

I=B9ve got the one about the liner that is really an anti-piracy ship =
(name escapes me).

Thanks

David

mailto:Snail@dircon.co.uk
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~snail/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:30:48 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re : PMPP field-testing

Kenji wrote:

[snip]

>>and (3) would a PMPP have static electric effects from the intense magnetic
>>fields ... I am kind of thinking purple wand, but a lot lot lot worse.
>
>WOW.  Well, it does _now_.  Have to admit, I hadn't thought of that before...
>Ominous rising whine as it powers up, accompanied by blue-sparking static
>electricity making the bearer's hair stand on end... the baleful red glare
>of the targeting laser winks on and peeps past the concealing kevlar
>overcoat... lurid violet electricity crackles and crawls around the hip
>area... cheery beep! when it's fully charged... nearby espresso machines
>malfunction... Moral Majoritarians within range fall into apopleptic
>fits...
>
>I think I'm going to the hardware store after work.


	I've got a baaaaad feeling about this...:)

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:30:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Battle Tender

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Clark Crawford wrote:

> volume to the hull.  The radio of total surface area to volume should not
                           ^^^^^

That should read "ratio".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:02:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

[snip a lot of stuff written by Leonard and myself]

> Leonard Ericson Wrote;
> >
> >Since the hull is in a vacuum, that means that any added surface area
> >that can "see" any other area of the hull is *wasted* to the extent
> >that it sees the other part of the hull. This is because the radiated
> >heat would just get picked back up by that other part of the hull.
> >
> >So the added area has to be things like "fins" running the length of
> >the hull (don't forget to count the area of *both* sides). But you
> >can't have more than 4 of them or you are back to the "facing each
> >other" problem.
> 
> Would radiated heat be perfectly absorbed?  Even if the fins were not
> parallel to one another?  I would expect there to be some "heat loss" even
> if two radiating surfaces were facing each other across a small gap and
> placed at exactly the same angle, if the gap were large and/or the angle of
> seperation greater than 0 but less than 90 degrees I would guess (and I am
> guessing) that there would be a greater amopunt of heat actually radiated
> and not absorbed.

By what Leonard wrote, if some section of the hemisphere visible from a
point on the radiated surface was open space, then a portion of the
radiated heat corresponding to that section (its size and location) would
be lost.  My intuition suggests that more heat gets radiated at the normal
angle to the radiating plane than at angles almost parallel to the plane,
but then again, I'm no physicist. 

> Meanwhile, lets talk about surface area.  Battle Riders (in CT) were always
> of the configuration type "dispersed structure".  I would say that any time
> the configuration is an easily visualized shape; wedge, needle, cylinder,
> etc, the shape must follow the surface area rules as written. 

I'd allow some leeway on this one (see my other post on the Battle Tender
thread).  You can always flatten, elongate, and/or widen the basic volume,
which will increase its surface area, as well as add little (or big) fins,
wings, knobby projections, superstructures, and so on.  I think that the
published surface area requirements are minimums, not maximums.  After
all, that extra mass is a big limiting factor that a lot of small ship
designers would love to get rid of.

> The use of a
> 'dispersed structure', however, implies that there are projections and
> gantries sticking out any which way, making, in the process, airframe or
> streamlined hulls an impossibility, but allowing just about any quantity of
> surface area one would wish for.

Yes, for the dispersed structure, I agree on having no upper bound, not
even for the energy emitter/receiver installations.  I think that there
may even have been a somewhat "official" note to this effect published
somewhere (in a TNE supplement).  I don't have FFS2.  Does it say anything
about this?

> For example, I always wanted to build a ship that was "modular" in nature.
> Imagine a long central spine made of tubular construction crystaliron
> "gantries" with mounts for a variable number of fuel storage tanks,
> habitation modules, cargo containers, and propulsion and/or jump drive
> units.  All the structural components are open to space, and if I run fluid
> through the center of the tubular elements I have a tremendous amount of
> radiating surface area. 

By my new understanding of the matter, only if they're exposed to space
(not just vacuum, but *space*).  If modules are attached, they won't be
useful, but then again, you can radiate from the modules.  Are conduit
couplings a standard feature of external grapples?

> I can add jump drive, cargo space, passenger
> space, etc at will...as long as certain engineering problems of balance
> around the axis of thrust, and jump grid coverage are met...making this the
> ultimate in flexible sized starships.  What configuration is this vessel?

Dispersed structure.  I refer you to the Maggart class from TNE.  This is
exactly the kind of ship you are talking about.  There was a long central
section with a spinal mount, a command module in the front, an engineering
module in the back, and lots of custom modules attached to the spine.  GDW
did quite a job on that ship.  Does anyone remember the name of the
supplement where they gave about 10,000 modules for it?  Smash & Grab? 
They also introduced the Aurora in the main rulebook, which the Maggart
was a "stretched" version of. 

> How much surface area is there?

As per dispersed structure.  Modules attach to external grapples.  I don't
know about stickying a jump drive in a module.  The really icky problem
(in TNE, at least) is working out those firing arcs when you go and add
those laser modules.  They did it for us in the supplement, and a referee
can fudge it, but I'd hate to work out solid rules for competitive design
among players. 

> Inquiring minds want to know.

*I* wanna know!  (Remember that old TV ad?  Shoot me!  I'm too old! :)


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:04:15 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters

>Does anyone know if the final Bilanidin Font was ever completed and is it
>available for the PC? Also what's happened to the Aslan fonts...???
>
>Update please?

I was doing the Aslan fonts, but my finals came up, and I had to spend all
kinds of crazy time in the lab, and...  blah blah blah.

Basically, right now, I have become really, really busy, especially with
Christmas coming up.  Expect nothing from me on the Aslan fonts until some
time a bit after Christmas at the earliest.  Sorry if anyone was waiting with
baited breath.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:58:25 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Letter from IG

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:49:33 +0000
From: "Paul Rocchi" <paul_rocchi@sns.ca>

>2) Frankly, I expect there to be a lot of GURPS: Traveller articles 
>in Pyramid.

Well, just for the record.  Pyramid is not a SJ Games house
organ.  It is interested in articles from a variety of
sources and will consider Traveller articles whether
or not they are GURPS Traveller.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:26:48 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Arrival Vengeance and the other one

At 10:24 PM 12/12/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Could someone please post a brief synopsis of these products, they are two
I=B9m missing. I believe there were three folio size adventures brought out,
there was Arrival Vengeance and one about a research station made from an
AHL cruiser (I think).

The bit about a research station made of cannibalized decks of an AHL
appeared in Challenge, not sure which issue.

Arrival Vengeance cast the characters as the senior crew aboard the AV,
sent on a secret mission by Archduke Norris to contact the remain faction
leaders to gauge wether a political solution was possible.  The ship
traveled through the Great Rift, met with Duke Craig of Daibei, Duchess
Margaret, some of Lucan's minions, and finally with Strephon.  Well done
framework, with plenty of opportunities to fill in the blanks.

>I=B9ve got the one about the liner that is really an anti-piracy ship (name
escapes me).

I used to own that one.. name fails me too.


+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Nothing concentrates the military mind  |
|  so much as the discovery that you have  |
|  walked into an ambush."                 |
|                      -Thomas Packenham   |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:39:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Clark Crawford wrote:

> I don't
> know about stickying a jump drive in a module.

Again, I have to correct my own language -- sorry about that.  I should
have said something like, "I don't know about putting a jump drive in a
module".  If there are a set of standard conduit hookups for a grapple, I
doubt that they include a heavy fuel line (the jump drive sucks up a lot
of fuel *very fast*, if I'm not mistaken) and jump grid connections. 
These would have to be added; I can't guess the costs (if any).  It should
be possible; a grapple would have to be designated as capable of accepting
a jump drive module.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:38:51 -0700
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Battle Tender

Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:

[snippage]

>I think we need to come up with some rules for pylons or struts for
>external features like Battle Riders.

I'd say that they'd be like very large external grapples (like the ones for
small craft). I'd say you could proportionally scale up the stats to deal
with larger craft.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:42:46 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: WEB KEEPER

      Some digests ago somebody volunteered that they would donate there time
to upkeeping the I.G. website.

      If you're still interested, please email me privately.

      Thank you.

Bryan
(see nothing up my sleeves.....)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:39:16 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: Digest 2150

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --part0_881977159_boundary
Content-ID: <0_881977159@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


- --part0_881977159_boundary
Content-ID: <0_881977159@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
Content-type: message/rfc822
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-disposition: inline

From: Kagekiha <Kagekiha@aol.com>
Return-path: <Kagekiha@aol.com>
To: Traveller@mpgn.com
Cc: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Digest 2150
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:14:38 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

     I too could use a copy of this digest (mine came blank).

Thanx in advance,
Bryan



- --part0_881977159_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:56:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Re: Can YOU be bought?

Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu> writes:
> The demise of JTAS got me thinking again about a long-standing dream of
> publishing gaming supplements.
<snip>
> There are really three major categories of expenses: overhead, printing,
> and content creation.
<big snip>

My feelings on this are that the goals of anybody who is entering
this field of endeavor out of a "love for the hobby" rather than
a "love for money" would do well to contentrate on keeping costs
minimized while keeping distribution as wide as possible. How do
you do that? The solution is right in front of you... it's the
internet.

The overhead is your computer and net-connection... these are sunk
costs that you've already paid, so you might as well forget about
them. The printing is... well... non-existant.

As for content creation, my personal solution has always been to
scrouge for free material (there are a lot of folks out there who
have stuff they've already written which they'd let you publish
for free). As for keeping distribution as wide as possible, that's
easy: make your product free of charge and put in online for
everyone to download.

> So, what would you [a prototypical author] charge to write the following
> kinds of books:
>
> 1.  A 24 page small supplement.  Rules heavy
> 2.  A 48 page adventure or backgrounder
> 3.  A 96 page campaign sourcebook, including rules, adventures, and examples
> 4.  A 128 page major rule book
>
> How does the idea of a residual change the picture?
>
> Are you willing to revisit a book six months later, if you are paid to do
> so, to update it in light of user feedback?

These are good questions, but again, you really have to ask yourself if
you want to go "pro". Being ametuer has lots of additional advantages aside
from just the cost and distribution ones mentioned above:

#1 Money never gets in the way.
   
   Look how some game companies turn out inadequtely edited product
   because they need immediate cash flow.

#2 Any mistake can be immediately fixed.

   Mistakes always happen, no matter how much your proofread. But on
   the net, you never have to recall a product. Just upload the new
   version.

#3 Electronic product is ultimately more valuable.
   
   Because paper rips, smudges, and rots... furthermore, paper isn't
   electronically searchable... furthermore, paper takes up space...
   furthermore, you can never find the darn stuff in the first place...
   furthermore, you'll probably lose it when you're moving...
   furthermore, if you want a copy at home and a copy at your friend's
   place (where you sit down to game), then you need to buy him (or her)
   a copy as well... yada yada yada. Can you tell that I hate paper?

A few hints if you actually take my advice:

#1 Keep the data format as portable as possible.

   I used to run a fanzine called the "Guildsman" back when I was in
   college. We put out six issues of the zine (ranging from 50-150 pages
   each) in a little under two years, and each run was around 50 copies
   (they were sold locally). Cost of production was about $6/issue. I
   used LaTeX on the campus net to do the formatting. Horrible idea.
   Now I've got all these LaTeX-formatted files, and nobody reads LaTeX
   anymore. If I want to share them with gamers on the net, I have to
   weed out all the LaTeX formatting commands (pain in my a**). What I
   should have done in the first place was make the zine pure vanilla
   text and just distributed electronically.

#2 Don't solicit for submissions.

   Netters are flaky... gamers are even flakier... and net-gamers are
   the ultimate flakes. If you want submissions, just take them from the
   newsgroups and/or mailing lists, ask for permission to publish, and
   then roll with it. 99% of the time, the response will be "sure, go
   ahead." Just beware of that 1% (out of all the people I asked for
   permission to publish, only one said, "No, don't." I think he was
   trying to go "pro" or something... don't think he ever made it,
   either).

And finally one big hint if you don't take my advice:

A friend of mine on the net puts out a gaming fanzine in his spare-time.
He publishes on paper, not electrons. His promise to his readership is
that their copies of his zine will retain their "collector's value"
because he will never re-print. To ensure this, he erases the electronic
copy of each issue right after it goes to press. My question to you:
who does this serve... those with a "love for the hobby" or those who
have a much less interesting love, the "love for money"?

Always side with those who love the hobby... work this motivation into
your every strategic decision, and as long as use that as your basis,
you'll do just fine.

All IMHO...   jimv@empirenet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:39:52 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: P. Engebos/TTC

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --part0_881977192_boundary
Content-ID: <0_881977192@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


- --part0_881977192_boundary
Content-ID: <0_881977192@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
Content-type: message/rfc822
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-disposition: inline

From: Kagekiha <Kagekiha@aol.com>
Return-path: <Kagekiha@aol.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Cc: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: P. Engebos/TTC
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:14:39 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

   <Is Traveller Chronicle still getting made?> Yes..... The next issue comes
out by the end of this month.


    By the way you were subbed to the list (CD-proj) but email keeps bouncing
from your account and you haven't answered private email....Any ideas as to
why?

Bryan
Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>

- --part0_881977192_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:13:23
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Uncie Hengieeeee

Uncie-wunkie,

Weeeee wannna thank thank thank you for lettin us work as the Family's
Hiiiii-Energy Devellllopment section.

Weeeee were so impressed with those nice Sayat ladies that weeeeee made a
new toy for them.

Weeee call it "The Solution". It solves grav tanks, SDBs and
aaaaannnyyything else that comes in range without a meeeeeeson screen.

It has a four meter long tunnel, with a diiiameter of fiiifty centimeters. 

It puts out siiiixteen megajoules of energy, for a damage value of twenny.
We dunno what that has a leeeethal radius of.

Thats a tunnel volume of 0.1257 cuuuubic meters, an a mass of ninety fiiive
kiilos, an a cost of twelve thousand siiix hunnerd credits.

Weeee then put a three thousand kilometer beeam pointer on it, for threeeee
hundred kiiilos and thiiiirty thousand credits, an it takes up zero point
threeee cubic meeeters.

Sixteeen megajoules needs eighty mega-mega-megajoules of accumulator, or
four cuuubic meters of accumulator. That costs forty thousand credits, and
masses eight thousand kiiilos.

Weeee couldnt agreeeee on what sort of poooower plant, so weeeee figured
that youuuu can figure that out.

I wanted batteries, coz that naaasty Mr Zhuuuuunatsu doesnt like our Baby
PAW and wont let us give them to those niiiiiice Sayat ladies.

But maaaaar-keting said they wanted us to use fusion plus. Icky.

Weeeee then put a forty kiiilo ballistic computer on it, and and and a two
hunnnered kiiilo Indirect Fire Sight and and and a Fire Direction Center.
They cost one million seven hunnerd and two thousand credits.

Plus you neeed a place to siddown on it, so thats point two tons and a
kiiilocredit for a crooooostation.

Weeee reckon that lets us go zappity zap zap zap at annnnyyything within
siiiixty klicks, as soon as someone tells us where it is. Even if they're
behind armour or a mountain or anyything.

The meeeesons should go for four thousand kiloooometers, until they run out
of weeeeet-bix.

All up it weighs eight thousand eight hunnerd and thirty-five kiiilos, and
costs one point seven four nine megacredits.

Once you put a carrriage on it, it weighs seventeen point four seven tons,
and costs 
one point seven six five megacredits.

An an an member thats without power. It neeeeeds eighty megawatts an hour
for sustained fire.

Weeee reckon you should hide it inna mountain or somefing, and then go
zappity zap zap zap at anything that you get told is within sixty click.

Your loving cousin,


Ditzie

**************************************************************

Personally, I think that this TL12 design is an abomination in the sight of
God and Man.

Apart form making life impossible for grav tanks, it is also one hell of a
weapon to turn any freighter into a Q-ship.

Remember, you have a zero-second delay, counterfire-proof, speed of light
artillery weapon *at TL 12*. And I'm sure I could build a TL11 version.

If your name happens to be Marc Miller, please say that Meson Guns have a
minimum length of, say, fifty meters at TL11, reducing by 10 meters per
tech level. Otherwise, really really strange things will happen to Imperial
Military doctrine - especially Marine doctrine.

With Marines in battle dress costing in the hundred kilo-credit range, it
is worth using a Solution to skeet-shoot them individually.

Marines will also abandon the Fusion Gun for their new role as artillery
spotters. Forget Combat Rifleman or FGMP skill - Forward Observer will be
standard for Marines.

Ian Whitchurch 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:39:18 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: IG Address

Is Imperium Games' address still imperiumgames@imperiumgames.com?

Our gateway claims that imperiumgames.com does not exist.  Mind you, it
does the same thing for agentsofgaming.com, too.

Could a technologically equipped person please send me the IP addresses of
these hosts (or whatever information I will need to give our gateway
people so that they can reestablish contact).


Thanks

Robert Prior

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:30:50 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Force fields

Glenn Hoppe wrote:

>
>Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
>>
>> >Two quick questions about black globes:
>> >
>>
>> Oh, and one more thing. What if you fired up your force field while in jump
>> transit? Does the universe as we know it end?
>
>First rule of rpg'ing: Never make it easy to destroy the universe.


	Hm.  I always thought it was never let the players have characters
wierder/eviller than the bad guys.  But on reflection, I agree.  So:

Rule 1) Never make it too easy to destroy the universe.

Rule 2) Never let the players have characters wierder or more evil than the
bad guys.

Rule 3) ???


>
>I would be seriously pissed if my life suddenly ended 'cuz some yahoo on
>Sylea fired up his 'globe while in jumpspace.
>

	Ditto.  I say that anyone dumb enough to try that should wind up in
the rec room in Graceland once Elvis was in his drugged beluga in a
jumpsuit phase.  Getting blown away in a gunfight between the King and what
he thinks are just hallucinations would be a fitting end for them.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:02:12 -0600
From: Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net>
Subject: Re: IG Address

At 09:39 PM 12/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Is Imperium Games' address still imperiumgames@imperiumgames.com?
>
>Our gateway claims that imperiumgames.com does not exist.  Mind you, it
>does the same thing for agentsofgaming.com, too.
>
>Could a technologically equipped person please send me the IP addresses of
>these hosts (or whatever information I will need to give our gateway
>people so that they can reestablish contact).
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Robert Prior
>
>


Their web page's ip address is 209.125.20.43

hope this helps
Alex Rebsch

- -------------------------------------------------
| grazzit@flash.net    <------ Preffered Method |
| Alex.Rebsch@wang.com <------ Last Resort      |
- -------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2153
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2154



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

So he tried again . . .
Rules of GMing
Re: Force fields
Re: Force fields
Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught
Re: Recoil experiments
Journal Dies -- Possible implications
Re: Battle Tender
Re: Technological conservatism.
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2144 (fwd)
Re: FF&S2 errata?
Re: Arrival Vengeance and the other one
Re: Imperial Squadrons (the pipeline is open?)
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: Force fields
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: Re : PMPP field-testing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:27:03 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: So he tried again . . .

I'm hoping my post got lost in the crash.  Here goes again.

How do you determine a target number for an animal attack in T4???  I can't
find the rules anywhere.  I can find damage dice, but that's it.

This question is really haunting me, so if anyone has a clue, I'd greatly
appreciate it.

Thanks!

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 97 02:41:10 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Rules of GMing

On 12/12/97 at 11:30 PM,  Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net> said:


>Rule 1) Never make it too easy to destroy the universe.

>Rule 2) Never let the players have characters wierder or more evil than
>the bad guys.

Rule 3) Never do the expected, unless the players know you never do the
        expected.

Rule 4) Never give the players anything they want without a struggle,
        but always give them what they're asking for when "they're
        asking for it."
        
Rule 5) And remember it is much easier to build a new character than a
        new universe, or even scenerio.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:30:40 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Force fields

>I don't think it's completely negligible - but it will fall off pretty

<budda budda budda -- snip>

>Bruce

Thank you sirrah (and to the others who answered this). Where might I find
these DSRs?

Sooo, on a not so related note ... what would happen if we turned on the
force field on a 0.1 c, Virus-infected planetoid in jump transit while
amidst the inhuman drums and pipes of Azathoth's court (which, as we all
know, is what jump space really is and why you can't look at it without
coming down with a really severe case of Tourette's disorder) while being
chased by non-existent space pirates ("argh-matey!") riding jump torpedos
bareback, each brandishing PMPPs menacingly. (I really think it ought to be
PelvIc, to get PIMPP)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:18:25 -0600
From: "Mark Laney" <cowhead@scott.net>
Subject: Re: Force fields

" Oh, and one more thing. What if you fired up your force field while in
jump
it? Does the universe as we know it end?"
 
Actually, the blackglobe's capacitors would absorb all the energy from the
jumpfield and collapse it. I think two things then occur. 1 the capacitors
blow not be able to absorb all the energy in a jump field. This does bad
things to a ship. 2. the ship or rather what is left of the ship is in
jumpspace with nothing to protect it. This also does bad things to a ship
or rather what is left of a ship.

I would say essentially this to the players. Well guys that was a real
interesting way to waste a lot of money. Want to roll up some new
characters now or wait to next game session?

Question 2 does the universe end? certainly not. Jumpspace is not is the
universe. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:05:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught

"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>For example, I always wanted to build a ship that was "modular" in nature.
>Imagine a long central spine made of tubular construction crystaliron
>"gantries" with mounts for a variable number of fuel storage tanks,
>habitation modules, cargo containers, and propulsion and/or jump drive
>units.  All the structural components are open to space, and if I run fluid
>through the center of the tubular elements I have a tremendous amount of
>radiating surface area.  I can add jump drive, cargo space, passenger
>space, etc at will...as long as certain engineering problems of balance
>around the axis of thrust, and jump grid coverage are met...making this the
>ultimate in flexible sized starships.  What configuration is this vessel?
>How much surface area is there?

In High Guard it would be a 'close structure'. Table 160 in FFS2 has this
type still.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:39:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

In mail you write:

> I found a box full of discarded lucite sheeting in all different shapes,
> and immediately recognized an opportunity to simulate the recoil of
> pelvic-mounted projectile weaponry (e.g. the PMPP).  A bunch of scrap foam
> rubber, a roll of duct tape and an old dildo harness provided basic
> instrumentation; the kinetic energy was produced by an appalled but
> fundamentally amenable jock.

I won't ask what you were doing with an old dildo harness. :-)

<snip>

> This is definitely a feasible technology for even fairly high-recoil
> weapons, and, I suspect, even for use by bipeds with (grossly) external
> genitalia.  Why the hell hasn't anyone worked on developing this before???

Two reasons.

1. The phallic symbology of a weapon projecting from the crotch is just
   *too* much.
2. you can't fire it from behind cover. Your entire torso *and* head
   are out there as a target. Compare this to a handgun or longarm,
   where you only have to expose your head.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:51:37 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Journal Dies -- Possible implications

No-one has mentioned the (bleeding) obvious yet (perhaps for fear of flaming),
so I'll bite the bullet <asbestos underwear on> ...

If IG cannot make a go of publishing the Journal, then how close to the wall are
they for the rest of their business?

It doesn't look good -- they have to rush incompletely (or *never*) proof-read
products into production because they haven't the Time (and time = money) to do
the job properly. They have *never* been able to produce a quality product that
is proof-read adequately (and, in fact, the situation seems to be getting worse
with some of the recent efforts like FF&S#2). They make promise after promise
about T4.1 (now for a post Xmas release, I guess), but we see nothing (and, yes,
unless they stuffed up my order, I have one in for it ... if it ever sees the
light of day). They cut ties with the only designer that seems to have had a
consistent, realistic, and logical "clue" ... Greg Porter.

All the anecdotes we've heard, all the evidence we've seen, seems to be quite
definite that IG is seriously undercapitalised -- so is it really surprising
that JTAS has been dumped?

What I'm saying is, today, JTAS ... tomorrow T4.1? Next week ... IG?

I've also said that the best hope for Traveller surviving is obviously for
someone other than IG to do it ... which means GURPSTrav. Now, don't get me
wrong, I'm not saying that GURPS is a wonderful and completely flawless system
- -- it isn't. It has problems -- problems that will *perhaps* make GURPSTrav
difficult to do. However, it has one big plus ... SJG is run by guys who
actually *have a clue*, they've demonstrated this over the years. They produce
consistently professional product that, if not always innovative or state of the
art (but, then T4 wasn't, either), are well produced and, well, *professional*.

They also get product out on deadline (mostly ... don't mention In Nomine or,
worse, Hot Lead), too. And they have a website that keeps the fen updated on all
the relevant doings.

So, is IG going down the gurgler? The signs sure seem to indicate that they are
having (and have always had) major problems. So, perhaps, a tentative "yes"
(IMHO). Will they survive against a competent competitor? Again, a tentative
"no" ... or not for long.

I know that many on the list will violently disagree ... but I'm merely pointing
out what seem to be unpalatable facts. The problem is, perhaps you should shoot
the originator of the problems (IG) and not the messenger (me).

I don't know what can be done to save them ... I don't even know that they're
*worth* saving. One solution that's been tried is for people on this list to
actually write good stuff for them ... and they have. Unfortunately, the people
at IG have always managed to stuff it up with the greatest of ease!

So, what *can* be done to save them? Any ideas?

Or, equally, are they worth saving? Any ideas?

Phil McGregor
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:23:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Battle Tender

In mail you write:

> Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:
>
> [snippage]
>
>>I think we need to come up with some rules for pylons or struts for
>>external features like Battle Riders.
>
> I'd say that they'd be like very large external grapples (like the ones for
> small craft). I'd say you could proportionally scale up the stats to deal
> with larger craft.

As pointed out elsewhere, the problem is that you don't have enough
surface area on the tender for the grapples.

I propose a simple solution. Put the grapples on the *rider*, and have
it grapple to a simple reinforced "strut" on the tender. Then the
grapple's surface area requirement isn't a problem. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:44:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>John Snead wrote:
>
>>> How about for rules:  None of the PCs have knowledge skills, instead
>>>everyone is assumed to know everything they want about any well 
>>>known, publicly accessible topic.  Everyone is an expert in history, 
>>>math, chemistry... Also, people may have some knowledge skills they 
>>>picked up on their own for use if they are ever "off-line". 
>>
>>But also, any skill that doesn't require "muscle memory" will *also* be
>>available. It's not just *information* that'll be readily available.
>>It'll be "programs" for using the info. In short, "skills" and
>>"experience". 
>
> This all depends on the type of interface you are postulating.  I see
> three primary varieties: 
>
> 1) You receive information (the population of X country, the value of Y
> resistor... + full sensory impressions and you access the computer using
> conscious thought [what is the population of X country?  What is the
> answer to Y equation].  In this type of interface the character might
> receive bonuses to Edu skills, but actual skills cannot be gained through
> the interface because all you are getting is data.  I'd say you must have
> at least skill level 1 and you can get no more that +2 to the skill. 
>
> 2) Full sensory output + the connection works like memory.  Thinking about
> a topic will provide you with information from the computer just like
> thinking about a topic now provides you with information from your own
> memory.  This type of interface will provide the user with nearly
> unlimited knowledge skills (in Traveller terms, any skill based off of
> Edu).  Depending upon just how unconscious the interface is Int-based
> skills could also be included, but you could equally say that only
> Edu-based skills can be gained in this way.  It seems quite reasonable
> that only skills which depend more upon learning than upon innate
> intelligence (essentially any skill you can learn purely in a classroom
> w/o lab time or any working with your hands:  history, genetics...).  If
> you try to access any skills which require actual practice then you are in
> the same situation as someone who has taken several courses on the
> subject, but has never used this knowledge.  All the medical
> book-knowledge in the work is only going to help you so much in actually
> performing surgery. 

But you missed the *key*. Memory. I was assuming memory *transfer*. In
which case you will get the (edited) memories of a practicioner,
complete with sensory impressions. So you'll know what the moves should
*feel* like.

If we can implant memory *at all*, we can implant sensory memory just
as easily as "data" memory. And even your "type 1" can supply sensory
info! 

> My problem with Traveller is it doesn't even include 1 as an option except
> for TL 14 computer implants which cost as much as a small starship. 
> Type 1 interfaces will be *cheap* and are likely to exist in our 
> world within a decade or two.

Bad news. People were saying that exact same thing *15* years ago. We
are making *very* little progress on interfacing to the brain. We can
interface to motor and some sensory nerves in crude ways (you have to
learn how to "feel" and "move" all over again) and those are cutting
edge experimental technologies.

>>Hidden or secret data will be a lot more obvious though. Much of the
>>"secret" data in this country can easily be reconstructed by someone
>>with the time and patience to wade thru all the *public* info on the
>>subject. 
>
>>While this mostly applies to scientific/technical info, it also applies
>>to a lot of other things. Sherlock Holmes won't even be in the same
>>*league* as the average citizen in such a society.
>
> True, but if someone is careful (and careful villains are more fun) they
> can still have secret meetings and secret files (especially if the files
> are stored on a computer with no connections to external networks).
> Challenging adventures are still quite possible. 

The trick in such a world will be having a computer with no connections.

>>The *real* problem, which you missed is that players can't really play
>>a character that is *that* much smarter than the player is. It quits
>>being role-playing and becomes "roll-playing" as the GM keeps having 
>>to figure out if the *character* would think of things that the player
>>hadn't. 
>
> More information available does not equal smarter.  If the interface
> requires conscious thought then the PC's aren't necessarily smarter, they
> just have huge masses of data available instantly.  If you have an
> unconscious interface then, yes, the PCs are effectively smarter. I'd
> avoid the later possibility. 

If we get it at all, there's no reason why an "unconcious" interface
would be any harder than a "concious" one. In fact, I'll bet that once
we crack the "code" and can interface to the brain, we'll have to put
in a lot of work to *filter out* "unconcious" thoughts.

Basicly, your "concious" interface seems to be more akin to interfacing
to the *sensory* and *motor* nerves, and exchanging data and commands
that way. Among other things, this will have a steep learning curve, as
it'll be like learning to use a new "sense" (for input) or a new "limb"
(for output). Doable, but not necessarily easy. It may not be any
harder than learning to use a mouse with a GUI. But that *isn't* as
easy as many folks think. I have to *teach* that to people and some
have a *really* hard time picking up the skill.

But a true *brain* interface would be what you call "unconcious". The
impulse occurs, and the computer carries it out. It may be "what if we
did this?" or it might be "Let's blow them away *now*." In the former
case, you'd get a scenario simulation (probably sort of like
"imagining" it happening, only you'd know what the odds of things
were), in the latter, you'd get targeting crosshairs and a "Fire? Y/N"
type prompt. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:31:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2144 (fwd)

In mail you write:

> A) Macro viruses _DO_ contain executable code, most are merely
> content to spread themselves around, but MS Word basic does have the
> ability to get out there and mess with the file system. Examples that do
> disrupt the 'host' are rare, for the simple reason that messing with a
> Win95 host usually means the standard "nuke and reinstall" response to
> virtually any Win95 problem. This means, essentially that the virus
> 'kills' it's host before it gets a chance to spread. This is one
> reason that most computer viruses actually do damage very rarely, so
> as to enable them to spread.
>
> B) ALL computer viruses require 'a very specific application' to be
> installed on the target computer, it's called 'the operating system'.
> This is why current computer viruses (with one exception) are OS specific.
> There are Mac viruses (37 of them) Unix viruses (two or three), Apple II
> viruses (probably the earliest viruses written and released into the wild,
> circa 1977 or so), and all the hordes of MS-DOS viruses. There are a few
> Windows and Windows95 specific viruses.
>
> Because, by definition, the OS is a program you are running all the time,
> in the background, you 'open' regular viruses just like you open a Word
> document, which either invalidates your definition of viruses, by making
> them _all_ trojans (you have to execute code to have them function) or
> macro viruses are indeed viruses. 
>
> The example I used, of having my system set up to recognize and open word
> documents automatically, when encountered in e-mail or web browsing makes
> them essentially, the same as any other computer virus...when encountered
> under the right conditions, it automatically infects your system.
>
> Macro virii are the only _non OS specific_ viruses existing, in that they
> can infect Word and Excel on both platforms they run on. (ThankYEW Unca'
> Billy...in one fell swoop the virus population that could infect a Mac
> went from 37 to thousands...) 

No, even macro viruses are "OS specific". It's just that for *them* the
"OS" is Word!

> I think, however, at the heart of this argument, is that people have some
> picture of computers in Traveller as PC-XT's writ large. They are not! 

It helps to have experience with non-PC systems. :-) Even the Mac
doesn't have much in the way of security. But my first OS, the late
lamented TRSDOS had better security than *netware*. Even better than
Unix, except for the fact that the Z80 didn't have a "protected mode". 

> This makes studying computer viruses today as an example of what Virus is
> comparable to studying bear attacks to cope with an Ebola outbreak. 

Multi-OS viruses are *possible*. It's just that your typical virus
author isn't *really* all that innovative. Consider the Internet Worm.
It attacked *two* different OSes on different *platforms*!

It took advantage of a known software weakness. Namely the fact that
message buffers weren't protected against overflow. So it just caused
an overflow where the "extra" characters were executable code that
wound up getting loaded were it'd do the least good.

I don't have a problem with a multi-platform virus. I have a problem
with one that causes *hardware* changes in systems not designed to be
self modifying. And with one that infects via *sensors*. Or can infect
dedicated systems running *ROM* based code.Or can infect systems that
are *designed* to not allow data to become program (such *will* exist,
for security reasons, and there are even computer designs where code
and data are kept *strictly* seperate. It's *impossible* to write
self-modifying code on such a system)

And even so, I described how the Virus *could* have done what they
wanted it to do. I was just pissed that the "canon" Virus was described
in a manner that didn't make the "reasonable" way possible.

short version of my idea:

The Virus *can* take over transponders. They are both "alive" and the
same "OS". From there, the living chip starts cannibalizing spare
silicon nearby.

It then extends "tendrils" down any connections it has and when it
encounters a chip/system, it studies the signals (and possibly even the
actual chip structure). It then sets up part of itself to "take over"
the functions of the chip, and connects that across the chip's I/O,.
Then it disconnects the chip and processes it for raw materials.

Whenever it "assimilates" a complete "card", it can create a simulacrum
to replace the function, and have it hooked to the *card's* I/O. Then
it can assimilate the rest of the card *and* reprocess the chip level
simulacra. And given that even in the future, I bet stock "chips" will
be used more than custom ones, the card simulacra will be *simpler*
than the sum of the chip simulacra simply because most designs don't
*use* all the functions of the chips making them up.

When the virus has assimilated all the "cards" in a "unit", it can just
place a simulacrum across the *unit's* I/O. And again, simplify the
system. Even more, at this level it can likely delete functions it
doesn't *want* to support. And again, it spreads tendrils down the
connections to other units. Also, it can remove the simulacra for any
connections it controls both ends of. 

And all the while it can replicate itself in any unit that is big
enough, and network smaller units to at least run a copy "in common".
After a while the only things that *won't* be part of it will be the
actual readouts and input devices. It can just display what it wants to
the crew and ignore any instructions it doesn't need to pass on to
unassimalated units. In short, the crew is running a *simulation* of
the ship, they just don't know it yet. :-)

As it goes along, it'll probably wait until it has the power and other
"critical" systems under control before it attacks. At which point
things happen like life support being shut off (or run in ways that are
*worse* than having it off). Anti-hijack systems start attacking the
crew, etc. The weapons may attack any nearby ships that don't indicate
(via hidden signals in the transponder codes) that they are infected
and in the process of moving towards a takeover. Heck, it may even
attack them just to keep the crew's attention elsewhere.

The key difference between my version and the "canon" version is this:
In the canon version, the virus can infect "any" system simply be
sending code at it. It can even infect through *sensors*. 

In mine, it can infect the Imperial transponders, and they can infect
anything they can get to *physically* (or if you grant the telekinetic
ability that some say the Cymbeline chips have, anything within the
(rather short) TK range. 

This slows the spread of the virus somewhat, and makes it a *bit*
easier to guard against (after all, it can use all that spare silicon
to create "spores" that can be scattered around waiting for a ship to
get close, or to be spread around a planet. Or maybe they'd be like
fake insects...

One *advantage* of my version is that it makes "taking back" an
infected system hopeless. The virus has *rebuilt* it. And if you kill
the power (and that copy was dumb enough not to have *local* storage of
power) you *still* can't restore any of the functions the virus deemed
"unnecessary".

That would help explain why tech crashed so far, so fast.

I *like* my version of the virus. Among other things, it's "sneakier".
And just think of the fun if the players get suspicious and open up an
assimilated unit (assuming the virus hasn't bothered "welding" the
cover on :-). 

"You get the cover off. The inside doesn't look like anything you've
ever seen before. There aren't any cards or wires. Instead, what's in
there looks almost like a plant root system. Like something that
*grew*. But it's metal, plastic and ceramics."

"As you stare, part of it shifts and you are blinded by a bright light...."

(The virus noticed they were opening the case and built some *powerful*
diode lasers. As soon as they were finished, it targeted the players'
eyes. It *probably* didn't waste enough resources to do permanent
damage. But the players will be blind for a few hours. More than long
enough for the virus to have them in deep shit. :-)

Compare that to what you'd see with the canon Virus:

"You get the cover off. Everything looks normal."

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:57:22 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 errata?

> 	Is there any errata available for FF&S2?
> 
> 	In particular, does anyone have the price for Endurance life support 
> (Table 209), instead of a bunch of "??"s?
> 
> 	hmmph. And I needed those numbers for my K'kree battleship design...

Take a look at Joe Heck's website at 

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/

Go to the Errata page and then to FF&S.

Suz


Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:58:44 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Arrival Vengeance and the other one

It was 'Assignment Vigilante'. Got it, Never read it but it's set in
Promise subsector of Diaspora, described in 'Astrogators guide to
Diaspora Sector' released at approximately the same time.

Arrival Vengeance, Assignment Vigilante,
Why this prevelance of A..V.. ?

?Armageddon Virus?
Were they trying to tell us something?
Am I just paranoid?


Cheers,

Del

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 97 14:33 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons (the pipeline is open?)

In-Reply-To: <a6360594.34884d6d@aol.com>

FKiesche,

> And: Still no Citizens of the Imperium! It's nearly January 1998, which would
> make it a year since the January 1997 release date and a half year since the
> July 1997 second release date (and the time I was charged). I think IG ought
> to give it up and credit us all who were charged or had checks cashed. Can you
> say "vaporware"?
>

If you've already been charged for CotI, you should be getting the discount. 
Well, that's what I was told, but I'm not convinced.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:19:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

In mail you write:

> I thought some Secret Service rushed into the MPGN Office and withheld 
> all material on the lists as they did with Steve Jackson Games.
>
> Or MJ-12 misinterpreted some posting about the Hive ...

No, no. It was a new Man in Black who thought we were discussing *real*
aliens and alien technology. 

ps. Anybody tried to do Traveller stats for the weapons in the movie? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:13:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Force fields

In mail you write:

> Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
>> 
>> >Two quick questions about black globes:
>> >
>> 
>> Oh, and one more thing. What if you fired up your force field while in jump
>> transit? Does the universe as we know it end?
>
> I would rule a misjump. Perhaps even catastrophic. Rationale: the black
> globe absorbs the energy of the protective jumpspace field surrounding
> the ship, making it impossible to remain in jumpspace.
>
> Creative Ref's might use this as a rare, high tech and highly risky
> method of circumventing the one week jump time limit. :-)

I'd be tempted to have the globe absorb the ship due to the influence
of the jumpspace bubble. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:14:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

In mail you write:

>>>Woo hoo!!!! It's alive! IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!!!
>>
>>"Woo Hoo"  Minbari phrase meaning "only 30 seconds?"
>
> Actually, it's Aslan -- an insult used extensively by an emmisary named
> Hobbes when mocking a six-year-old (and self-described genius) Solomani's
> plots for fame, glory, and world domination.

No, no. Calvin is *obviously* a member of Famile Spofulam's junior
design team. He'd fit in *perfectly*. Hobbes is an Aslan assigned to
"supervise" the team.

<next: Garfield and Odie interpreted as an Aslan/Vargr pairing. Nermal
is a female Aslan. Question for discussion: which human race is
Garfield's "owner"[1]?>

[1] Sorry, my mind went blank on his name...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:52:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : PMPP field-testing

In mail you write:

>>and (3) would a PMPP have static electric effects from the intense magnetic
>>fields ... I am kind of thinking purple wand, but a lot lot lot worse.
>
> WOW.  Well, it does _now_.  Have to admit, I hadn't thought of that before...
> Ominous rising whine as it powers up, accompanied by blue-sparking static
> electricity making the bearer's hair stand on end... the baleful red glare
> of the targeting laser winks on and peeps past the concealing kevlar
> overcoat... lurid violet electricity crackles and crawls around the hip
> area... cheery beep! when it's fully charged... nearby espresso machines
> malfunction... Moral Majoritarians within range fall into apopleptic
> fits...

I'm not worried that *I* understand the "purple wand" reference. I'm
not *too* worried that Kenji does (not after that bit about "old dildo
harness"). I *am* worried that someone else on the list expected folks
to get it.

Gee, I didn't think we were *that* kinky around here. :-)

Maybe we should start thread on "future kinks" :-)
 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2154
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2155



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: re.Aliens are Bioweapons?
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Force fields
Re: macro viruses, VM viruses
Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught
Re: Keepin' up with reality...
Address Changes
Re: Uncie Hengieeeee
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Force fields
Re: Arrival Vengeance and the other one
Re: Address Changes
When Animals Attack . . .
Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications
Re: Rules of GMing
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: near-c rock fix proposal
IG going under?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:43:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: re.Aliens are Bioweapons?

In mail you write:

> The facehugger does seem to work awfully well for a top-down oxy-breathing
> life-form, but I suspect one could make a good argument that this thing would
> adapt to its target pretty quickly, and ram that ovipositor wherever it would
> seem to do the most good.
>
> ..."umm, Grink? Grink, Zorp here. I was just making my way down into the hold
> of the derelict we found and some little pod popped open and something hopped
> out. It seems to be trying to pick my nose. Did you bring any extra
> Exo-BanTM?"....

You aren't thinking "alien" enough. 

.... It's shoved something into my:

exrcretory orifice
feeding orifice
respiratory orifice
reproductive orifice
speaking orifice
brooding pouch
storage pouch
feeding/digestive pouch

And these are just off the top of my head after running thru known
*Terran* organisms.

And with the possible exception of the last, *all* of those are usable
sites for incubating baby bursters.

The odd part about the face huggers is that they can feed oxygen to a
human. Otherwise they are a *poor* copy of digger wasps or Ixitls.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:22:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

In mail you write:

> That's how I saw it all the time. It is not logical that a devastating 
> lifeform like the Alien evolves to such a high state on a natural way.
> It would have destroyed all of its environment long before reaching a 
> standard that high. I always supposed it was a weapon created by the 
> alien pilot's race (or his enemies). That the humans are that good fodder 
> for them can be explained that Alien was designed to prey upon a wide 
> variety of different life forms. So the humans are not a special form, 
> only one of much.

"Aliens" are too nasty for Traveller. On the other hand, I still say
I'd like to drop Avalon into the Traveller universe somewhere. That's
the world from "Legacy of Heriot" and "Beowulf's Children".
*Especially, after the second book.

A minor human race with *intelligent* Grendels as part of their armed
forces would make even the K'kree decide to look elsewhere for places
to conquer. :-)

Hmmm. Let's see. We need a cooling suit for the grendels, as well as
some way for the suit to store extra "speed" and feed it to them as
needed...

Grendels in battle dress don't bear thinking about. 

Oh yeah. For the *opposite* end of the spectrum I want another planet
somewhere in the reaches of unexplored space.... Discworld!

<snicker> Can you picture the ISS report when they spot *that* in their
surveys?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:01:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Force fields

In mail you write:

> 1). I assume that a black globe operates pretty much like very advanced
> stealth coating -- no bounces from active radar and the like. My question
> is how effective passive sensors would be. I assume that the chance of
> occluding a distant object would be fairly negligible, but I am sure I am
> wrong in this (because I am so often wrong :-).

Nope, stars are pretty far apart even with a *good* telescope. And a
ship at any great distance obscures a *very* tiny angle.

> What about detecting globes
> against, say, the background radiation of the universe? Would that work?

Not easily. The cosmic background is 3K. A black globe would be 0K.
That's an *awfully* tiny differential to detect. 

> How about densitometers? Does a force field prevent a sensor of this sort
> from detecting the ship so protected?

Good question. I don't think it's ever been cleared up. I'd tend to say
that gravity (and hence densitometers) is *not* affected by a black
globe. Otherwise it'd constantly be absorbing a *lot* of energy any
time it was near a planet.

Also, gravity is carried by *virtual* particles, which the globe
shouldn't be able to intercept. Real particles can be. This also means
that if the ship has a big enough charge or magnetic field they would
also be detectable. (Don't hold your breath waiting for *that* to
happen :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:40:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: macro viruses, VM viruses

In mail you write:

> In 3I, with reconfigurable CPU pathways (although apparently still a
> binary logic), you have the possibility of a dynamic VM loaded into the
> hardware from secondary storage.  (Regardless of TL, it is quite probable
> that there will always be the distinctions of primary storage, secondary
> storage, and processing hardware).  If it is only software complexity that
> limits the ability to produce AI, then it would be possible to create an
> AI on lower TL hardware using this technique.  Since they did create AIs
> on lower TL hardware, we might assume that this is the case.

But on the other hand a VM of this sort runs a lots *slower* than
native code.

BTW, Computers *don't* have to use von Neumann architecture. In other
words "storage" be it primary or secondary *doesn't* have to be
*shared* by code and data. Systems have been built where code is stored
seperately* from data at the *hardware* level. 

In such a system you can load anything you want into the data stream
and it won't corrupt the code. The code is effectively "in ROM" at all
times. The system just gets to switch between the ROMs. But the code
and data are kept seperate at the *register* level. It's not possible
to load an opcode register from the data store or to load an operand
register from the code store.

Developement on such systems is slow (for one thing because you have to
write assemblers/compilers rather differently, and debuggers *have* to
be hardware). But it continues because they have advantages in
applications where you *can't* have "viruses" and the like happen. They
are also apparently of some theoretical interest. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:27:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught

In mail you write:

> Would radiated heat be perfectly absorbed?  Even if the fins were not
> parallel to one another?  I would expect there to be some "heat loss" even
> if two radiating surfaces were facing each other across a small gap and
> placed at exactly the same angle, if the gap were large and/or the angle of
> seperation greater than 0 but less than 90 degrees I would guess (and I am
> guessing) that there would be a greater amopunt of heat actually radiated
> and not absorbed.

The radiation basicly works out to be equivalent to what you'd get from
a flat plate set across the "trough". Pity.

> For example, I always wanted to build a ship that was "modular" in nature.
> Imagine a long central spine made of tubular construction crystaliron
> "gantries" with mounts for a variable number of fuel storage tanks,
> habitation modules, cargo containers, and propulsion and/or jump drive
> units.  All the structural components are open to space, and if I run fluid
> through the center of the tubular elements I have a tremendous amount of
> radiating surface area.

Actually, the tubes don't have all *that* much area. That's the whole
reason for *using* tubes. Since the amount of material required is
directly proportional to the *surface area* of the tubes, for the
volume the framework encloses they have very *little* area.

On the other hand, they are a good design. In fact a lot of *real*
spacecraft design proposals amount to a triangular truss (think of the
arm on those cranes they use to build big buildings, or they typical
"tower" for a radio station). Such trusses are *very* strong for their
weight and can take a *lot* of thrust along their axis. 

> I can add jump drive, cargo space, passenger
> space, etc at will...as long as certain engineering problems of balance
> around the axis of thrust, and jump grid coverage are met...making this the
> ultimate in flexible sized starships.  What configuration is this vessel?
> How much surface area is there?

The *effective* surface area will work out to be much the same as you'd
get if you had an infinitely stretchable balloon, inflated it, slipped
the ship inside, and then deflated the balloon. Any "convex" area will
radiate with it's real surface area. Any "concave" area will radiate as
if it had the area of a sheet stretched over it. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:29:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Keepin' up with reality...

In mail you write:

> Todays missive:
>
> from
>
>  http://www.ple.af.mil/public/articles/971027lc.htm
>
> Pictures and text.
>
> also see the article at CNN:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9712/12/t_t/laser.propulsion/index.html
>
>
> "LASER PROPULSION RESEARCH FOR SPACE LAUNCH OF MICROSATELLITES
>
>
> October 29, 1997
>
> EDWARDS AFB CALIF --- The futuristic concept of a small laser-propelled
> spacecraft has taken its first research flights
> towards reaching space.
>
> That progress has been measured by short flights of 2-20 seconds duration
> at a military research facility using a high power
> infrared (CO2) laser, a wavelength invisible to the naked eye. 
>
> The achievement can be likened to Robert Goddard's first successful
> flights of his liquid propellant chemical rocket that
> attained a height of 41 feet after a 2 1/2 second burn in March of 1926.
> In sharp contrast with Goddard's rockets, there is
> absolutely no fuel on board this prototype laser-boosted craft, which has
> a diameter of 15 cm, mass of 40-50 grams,
> machined from a solid block of 6061-T6 aluminum."
>
> The press release goes on to describe that the thing is powered by
> 'kilojoule' pulses at 10 pulses/second (that's what, 600 ROF in Trav
> Terms?) turning air in the center of a parabolic reflector into high temp
> plasma, the expansion of which drives the craft forwards.
>
> They claim this is pollution free (I'd really not think about the
> recombination products and other side reactions that will occur in the air
> as the plasma cools, reforms back onto atoms and molecules.)

Also, it's *gotta* drop off in efficiency as the altitude increases. I
still prefer the original Kantrowitz design. A slab of "doped" ice (or
maybe plastic, but ice would be better) fastened to the back of the
vehicle, and the laser vaporizes a layer of the surface with every pulse.

As I understand it, tests at Lawrence Livermore showed that the
resulting "planar shockwaves" *would* provide decent thrust, even
without a nozzle.

I like the idea of "big" laser launch systems for Traveller because
they can double as *great* planetary defense systems. Would *you* get
in range of Gigawatt lasers with a rate of fire *higher* than the the
one in the test above? 

BTW, the "gigawatt" figure is for *cargo*. For launching *passengers
you need bigger lasers.... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:13:22 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Address Changes

As you may have noticed, my address has changed.

Old address: rob_prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca

New Address: rob_prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca


When the changover happened, I tried to unsub from the old address and
resub from the new one.  Somewhere in there a few lists got lost.  Could
someone send me subscription information for the TravTech, HIWG, and HIWG
Writers Guild lists?  Thanks.

Additionally, there are still some problems with the gateway.  I can't,
for example, reach Imperium Games, and have only limited luck with AOL. 
Suggestions would be appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:43:29 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Uncie Hengieeeee

Ditzie channelled through Ian:

>Uncie-wunkie,
[snip vision of a bright and glorious future]
>Your loving cousin,

Wait a sec -- is Hengabar the cousin or the uncle of Ditzie?  And wait
another sec -- do I really want to know?

Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http:/www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http:/www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:46:27 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>I won't ask what you were doing with an old dildo harness. :-)

Assiduously gathering dust.

>> This is definitely a feasible technology for even fairly high-recoil
>> weapons, and, I suspect, even for use by bipeds with (grossly) external
>> genitalia.  Why the hell hasn't anyone worked on developing this before???
>
>Two reasons.
>
>1. The phallic symbology of a weapon projecting from the crotch is just
>   *too* much.

That's not a _problem_, dude, that's that's a major selling point...

>2. you can't fire it from behind cover. Your entire torso *and* head
>   are out there as a target. Compare this to a handgun or longarm,
>   where you only have to expose your head.

Ah.  Oh.  Good point.  I suppose one could argue that anyone who would put
on a PMPP/analogue wouldn't be worried about petty scaredy-cat things like
"cover", but yeah, that is a sort of drawback.

Hm... to get back to an earlier suggestion for Sayat anatomy, perhaps a
sort of prehensile version of the PMPP could get around this problem?


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http:/www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http:/www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:39:21 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Force fields

Joseph Dietrich wrote:

>Sooo, on a not so related note ... what would happen if we turned on the
>force field on a 0.1 c, Virus-infected planetoid in jump transit while
>amidst the inhuman drums and pipes of Azathoth's court (which, as we all
>know, is what jump space really is and why you can't look at it without
>coming down with a really severe case of Tourette's disorder) while being
>chased by non-existent space pirates ("argh-matey!") riding jump torpedos
>bareback, each brandishing PMPPs menacingly. (I really think it ought to be
>PelvIc, to get PIMPP)

Why, the planetoid in question would fragment into its constituent
components (gravitically compressed Templars in a matrix of superdense
Imperial Peers).  Nothing more, nothing less.

PIMPP?  How absurd!  Pimping is an antisocial practice restricted to those
animal species suffering from severe mental illnesses; such as "private
property" and "monetarized exchange".  No, no, that wouldn't be appropriate
at all.  Pimping?  Really!  Besides, all Sayat research subjects are
volunteers.  Of course.  Yes.


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http:/www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http:/www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 97 10:46:49 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Arrival Vengeance and the other one

On 1997-12-12 5:26 pm, Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net> wrote the =
following:

>>Could someone please post a brief synopsis of these products, they are =
two
>>I=B9m missing. I believe there were three folio size adventures brought =
out,
>>there was Arrival Vengeance and one about a research station made from an
>>AHL cruiser (I think).
>>
>>I=B9ve got the one about the liner that is really an anti-piracy ship =
(name
>escapes me).
>
>I used to own that one.. name fails me too.

_Assignment: Vigilante_

The other one you speak of is _Astrogators' Guide to The Diaspora =
Sector_.

Which I thought was really cool. It included some of the spiffiest =
maps ever produced for Traveller, imho. It had full UWP data for the =
sector, comments in library data style on important and interesting =
planets, as well as the Pocket Empires, major trade routes, etc.

Lots of adventure hooks. I wish more folios like this were made for =
other sectors...



- -- 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Glenn Hoppe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D\ /--- =
MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Eschew =
Obfuscation =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:49:29 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Address Changes

> When the changover happened, I tried to unsub from the old address and
> resub from the new one.  Somewhere in there a few lists got lost.  Could
> someone send me subscription information for the TravTech, HIWG, and HIWG
> Writers Guild lists?  Thanks.

I forwarded the HIWG-TWG list info.  I also accidentally forwarded 
the isba list info. sorry about that one :)  I'm afraid I don't have 
the others.

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:55:09 -0500
From: Robert Flammang <flammang@npl2.phyast.pitt.edu>
Subject: When Animals Attack . . .

>
   Hi.
   
> From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
   
> . . . OK, I have a rules question.  How do you determine the attack target
> number for an animal in T4?  I can't seem to find it in the main rulebook, and
> I'm assuming I'm overlooking a sentence or chart somewhere.
> I've found the damage table for animal weapons, but no "claw skill" or
> whatever is supposed to be used.
   
   There is no rule in the T4 rulebook, because the animal system in T4
   was taken wholesale from CT, which did not vary the target number, but
   modified a 2D attempt to roll an 8 or better.  T4.0 overlooked this
   little omission.  The T4 equivalent to the old CT rule, using a fairly
   obvious conversion scheme, would be to have a target number of 6 with
   a 2-dice task difficulty.
   
   -Rob
   

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:15:23 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications

>No-one has mentioned the (bleeding) obvious yet (perhaps for fear of flaming),
>so I'll bite the bullet <asbestos underwear on> ...
>
>If IG cannot make a go of publishing the Journal, then how close to the wall
>are they for the rest of their business?

I'd say real close, I'm afraid I've got to agree with everything you said.
I had great hopes from the beginning, and have gotten everything they've
done except the "Mileo 0 Campaign" hardback (Why should I waste my money on
simple reprint of two poorly done books), and the second issue they did of
JTAS (I've never been able to find it, and the store that special orders
all the other Traveller books for me can't get it!).

>It doesn't look good -- they have to rush incompletely (or *never*) proof-read
>products into production because they haven't the Time (and time = money)
>to do
>the job properly. They have *never* been able to produce a quality product
>that
>is proof-read adequately (and, in fact, the situation seems to be getting
>worse

Unfortunatly for the most part the stuff is very, very poorly done, I think
they have done 3 books that were produced at an acceptable level.  One
thing they need to do is get someone that has a clue when it comes to page
layout, and use a real program for page layout (I suspect they are using MS
Word).

As for proof-reading, I think that one of the best books they've done is
the "Naval Architects Manual" (what can I say, I love well done starshp
deck plans).  I've not had much time to read it, but the first thing I
noticed was a typo in about the first paragraph!

What I want to see is something produced of the quality of the "Delta
Green" sourcebook for COC, or the "Jovian Chronicles".  Both are excellent
examples of well produced RPG books!

>What I'm saying is, today, JTAS ... tomorrow T4.1? Next week ... IG?

Maybe not that quick, but that is unfortunatly my guess.  I am suspecting
that a majority of people still buying the stuff are die-hard Traveller
fans like myself that already own a majority of the material produced.

>I've also said that the best hope for Traveller surviving is obviously for
>someone other than IG to do it ... which means GURPSTrav. Now, don't get me
>wrong, I'm not saying that GURPS is a wonderful and completely flawless system
>-- it isn't. It has problems -- problems that will *perhaps* make GURPSTrav
>difficult to do. However, it has one big plus ... SJG is run by guys who

Problems yes, but they just seem to write rules specific to most settings
anyway.  I think GURPS is Travellers only real hope at this point.  One
thing it will do is gain Traveller visibility that it's not had in years.
If IG is still around at that point they might have a chance, especially if
they produce stuff that can be used with GURPS Traveller.

The biggest problem I've got with GURPS is I don't like the artwork.

>worse, Hot Lead), too. And they have a website that keeps the fen updated on
>all the relevant doings.

I think a lot of companies fail to consider that once they start a Web site
they need to keep updating it with new content.  One like the IG site
doesn't have to be that often, but it does need to be more often than
they've been doing!  To do otherwise reflects badly on them.

>I don't know what can be done to save them ... I don't even know that they're
>*worth* saving. One solution that's been tried is for people on this list to
>actually write good stuff for them ... and they have. Unfortunately, the
>people
>at IG have always managed to stuff it up with the greatest of ease!

It's IG's ability to mess stuff up makes me wonder if they are worth
saving!  Starships is probably the best example of a book gone horribly
wrong.

>So, what *can* be done to save them? Any ideas?

We, can't save them.  They have to save themselves.  In order to do this,
they've got to start produceing quality material.  When over 50% of the
material that they've done garbage primarily do to their incompetence
they've got their work cut out for them.

>Or, equally, are they worth saving? Any ideas?

Only if they make themselves worth saving.  For almost a year I've been
threating to tell the store that orders the books for me not to bother any
more, but I keep getting them, because I keep hoping for the best.  The
latest book I've gotten was the "Architects Manual" and I REALLY like what
I've seen of that book so far.  Unfortunatly work has prevented me from
having time to really read through it.

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:00:46 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Rules of GMing

> >Rule 1) Never make it too easy to destroy the universe.
> 
> >Rule 2) Never let the players have characters wierder or more evil than
> >the bad guys.
> 
> Rule 3) Never do the expected, unless the players know you never do the
>         expected.
> 
> Rule 4) Never give the players anything they want without a struggle,
>         but always give them what they're asking for when "they're
>         asking for it."
>         
> Rule 5) And remember it is much easier to build a new character than a
>         new universe, or even scenerio.


I think I'm going to do this up in publisher and hang it by my desk 
<G>

Suz 
Yoleen Mazer
Captain, Lady Fair
Courier, FeZUnA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:37:22 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

I am quite happy that one of the first posts to the repaired TML was that one.
:)

I'd also like to thank the folks at MPGN for getting the list back up in a
very timely fashion.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:48:42 -0500
From: Robert Flammang <flammang@npl2.phyast.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: near-c rock fix proposal

>
   Hi.
   
> From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
   
>>Great minds think alike!  I've always held that Trav maneuver drives
>>must conserve energy, and I've long noted that the only way for that
>>to be true is if (a) you increase the power requirements by a factor
>>of 1000 or so, or (b) you state that the maneuver drive somehow
>>magically decouples energy from velocity, so that E = m*v^2/2 does not
>>hold anymore.
   
> Actually, to conserve energy you need to make the power requirements
> a function of velocity, and then you get into the "velocity relative
> to what?" question, and get (as you note) very high power requirements for
> even moderate drive velocities.
   
   Nope.  The power requirements are a function of reaction mass and
   thrust, not velocity.  The velocity-relative-to-what issue has come up
   several times on this list, and is usually a red-herring. (The correct
   physics answer is that the velocity can be relative to /anything/, as
   long as the aforementioned anything doesn't change halfway through
   the working of the problem.)
   
   The real-life physics formula for power vs. thrust is:
   
      	P = sqrt((Fc)^2 + (rc^2)^2) - rc^2.
   
   Where:
   	c = speed of light = 3.00 * 10^8 m/s
   	P = power in watts
   	F = thrust in newtons
   	r = rate at which reaction fuel is spent in kg/s
   
   If you have no reaction mass, then r=0 and your equation for power
   becomes P = Fc.
   
   Now, if you have some kind of magic M-drive that takes the ship off of
   the mass shell, making it a virtual object, then the formula does not
   hold.  Relativity is violated and the relativistic relation between
   energy and momentum, E = sqrt((pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2), becomes E =
   sqrt((pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2 - OSO^2), where p = momentum, E = energy, and
   OSO is the off-shell offset.  In that case, your power-to-thrust relation
   for a reactionless drive becomes:
   
   	P = sqrt(F^2 * c^2 - OSO^2).
   
   The power is now a function of thrust (F) and whatever the magical OSO
   is a function of.  Note that for the High-Guard and Striker rules to hold,
   you'll need a formulation of something like OSO = 0.999*F*c.
   
   -Rob
   
   
   
   

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:49:36 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: IG going under?

> No-one has mentioned the (bleeding) obvious yet (perhaps for fear of
flaming),
> so I'll bite the bullet <asbestos underwear on> ...
> 
> If IG cannot make a go of publishing the Journal, then how close to the
wall are
> they for the rest of their business?

Well, while at earlier times I might have disagreed with you, I think you
may be right. Although I will point out that magazines are notorious for
not making money. Wizards of the Coast has flat-out said that neither
Dragon nor Dungeon are money-makers, but they consider them important
elements of customer service, and they will continue them. Therein lies my
secondary theory; that "does not fit in with our plans" should really mean
"does not make enough money, therefore we're canning it." My first theory,
unfortuately, is the same as yours . 

> What I'm saying is, today, JTAS ... tomorrow T4.1? Next week ... IG?

At this point, I'm not even optimistic about T4.1 ever coming out.
 
> I've also said that the best hope for Traveller surviving is obviously for
> someone other than IG to do it ... which means GURPSTrav. Now, don't get me
> wrong, I'm not saying that GURPS is a wonderful and completely flawless system
> - -- it isn't. It has problems -- problems that will *perhaps* make GURPSTrav
> difficult to do. However, it has one big plus ... SJG is run by guys who
> actually *have a clue*, they've demonstrated this over the years. They produce
> consistently professional product that, if not always innovative or state of the
> art (but, then T4 wasn't, either), are well produced and, well, *professional*.

There has been some discussion (engendered by me) on the GURPSnet list
lately. I do think Traveller will work well in GURPS, although the
prevalent opinion is that, as much as possible, they want to stick with
GURPS rules for the way things work, not try to rework GURPS to make it
like Traveller. I don't have a problem with this, but then I don't like
random character creation anyway :) Basically, they want people to be able
to play GURPS Space in the Traveller universe, with adjustments like jump
drives using fuel, etc.
 
> I don't know what can be done to save them ... I don't even know that they're
> *worth* saving. One solution that's been tried is for people on this list to
> actually write good stuff for them ... and they have. Unfortunately, the people
> at IG have always managed to stuff it up with the greatest of ease!

I am going to say this with deep apologies to Marc and to my friends from
the TML who have worked hard and long on the quality material that has been
put out; IG's situation is their own making, and this current one is not
inherited from the "old regime". if they go under, it's their own fault.
Their business practices are highly suspect at best, and it isn't like
they've had ample warning. But what do we know? we're just the suckers who
buy anything with "Traveller" on it...(sarcasm, of course). I hate to see
Marc's name dragged through the mud. he did his best to bring Traveller
back to the marketplace as fast as he could after the demise of GDW (too
fast IMO, but that's just me), and he just wound up getting stuck with what
I consider a raw deal. The problem is with the business folks at the top,
not people like Marc and Tim Brown. And certainly not the fault of people
like Suz, Stu , Joe, Andy etc. who have done what I consider to be some of
the best stuff that has EVER been written for Traveller.

My opinion, of course.

Allen Shock
 
> So, what *can* be done to save them? Any ideas?
> 
> Or, equally, are they worth saving? Any ideas?
> 
> Phil McGregor
> - ---------------------------------------------
> Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
> Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
> Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
> Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:23:21 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Battle Tender
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:
> >
> > [snippage]
> >
> >>I think we need to come up with some rules for pylons or struts for
> >>external features like Battle Riders.
> >
> > I'd say that they'd be like very large external grapples (like the ones
for
> > small craft). I'd say you could proportionally scale up the stats to
deal
> > with larger craft.
> 
> As pointed out elsewhere, the problem is that you don't have enough
> surface area on the tender for the grapples.
> 
> I propose a simple solution. Put the grapples on the *rider*, and have
> it grapple to a simple reinforced "strut" on the tender. Then the
> grapple's surface area requirement isn't a problem. :-)
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:44:36 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
> >
> >>John Snead wrote:
> >
> >>> How about for rules:  None of the PCs have knowledge skills, instead
> >>>everyone is assumed to know everything they want about any well 
> >>>known, publicly accessible topic.  Everyone is an expert in history, 
> >>>math, chemistry... Also, people may have some knowledge skills they 
> >>>picked up on their own for use if they are ever "off-line". 
> >>
> >>But also, any skill that doesn't require "muscle memory" will *also* be
> >>available. It's not just *information* that'll be readily available.
> >>It'll be "programs" for using the info. In short, "skills" and
> >>"experience". 
> >
> > This all depends on the type of interface you are postulating.  I see
> > three primary varieties: 
> >
> > 1) You receive information (the population of X country, the value of Y
> > resistor... + full sensory impressions and you access the computer
using
> > conscious thought [what is the population of X country?  What is the
> > answer to Y equation].  In this type of interface the character might
> > receive bonuses to Edu skills, but actual skills cannot be gained
through
> > the interface because all you are getting is data.  I'd say you must
have
> > at least skill level 1 and you can get no more that +2 to the skill. 
> >
> > 2) Full sensory output + the connection works like memory.  Thinking
about
> > a topic will provide you with information from the computer just like
> > thinking about a topic now provides you with information from your own
> > memory.  This type of interface will provide the user with nearly
> > unlimited knowledge skills (in Traveller terms, any skill based off of
> > Edu).  Depending upon just how unconscious the interface is Int-based
> > skills could also be included, but you could equally say that only
> > Edu-based skills can be gained in this way.  It seems quite reasonable
> > that only skills which depend more upon learning than upon innate
> > intelligence (essentially any skill you can learn purely in a classroom
> > w/o lab time or any working with your hands:  history, genetics...). 
If
> > you try to access any skills which require actual practice then you are
in
> > the same situation as someone who has taken several courses on the
> > subject, but has never used this knowledge.  All the medical
> > book-knowledge in the work is only going to help you so much in
actually
> > performing surgery. 
> 
> But you missed the *key*. Memory. I was assuming memory *transfer*. In
> which case you will get the (edited) memories of a practicioner,
> complete with sensory impressions. So you'll know what the moves should
> *feel* like.
> 
> If we can implant memory *at all*, we can implant sensory memory just
> as easily as "data" memory. And even your "type 1" can supply sensory
> info! 
> 
> > My problem with Traveller is it doesn't even include 1 as an option
except
> > for TL 14 computer implants which cost as much as a small starship. 
> > Type 1 interfaces will be *cheap* and are likely to exist in our 
> > world within a decade or two.
> 
> Bad news. People were saying that exact same thing *15* years ago. We
> are making *very* little progress on interfacing to the brain. We can
> interface to motor and some sensory nerves in crude ways (you have to
> learn how to "feel" and "move" all over again) and those are cutting
> edge experimental technologies.
> 
> >>Hidden or secret data will be a lot more obvious though. Much of the
> >>"secret" data in this country can easily be reconstructed by someone
> >>with the time and patience to wade thru all the *public* info on the
> >>subject. 
> >
> >>While this mostly applies to scientific/technical info, it also applies
> >>to a lot of other things. Sherlock Holmes won't even be in the same
> >>*league* as the average citizen in such a society.
> >
> > True, but if someone is careful (and careful villains are more fun)
they
> > can still have secret meetings and secret files (especially if the
files
> > are stored on a computer with no connections to external networks).
> > Challenging adventures are still quite possible. 
> 
> The trick in such a world will be having a computer with no connections.
> 
> >>The *real* problem, which you missed is that players can't really play
> >>a character that is *that* much smarter than the player is. It quits
> >>being role-playing and becomes "roll-playing" as the GM keeps having 
> >>to figure out if the *character* would think of things that the player
> >>hadn't. 
> >
> > More information available does not equal smarter.  If the interface
> > requires conscious thought then the PC's aren't necessarily smarter,
they
> > just have huge masses of data available instantly.  If you have an
> > unconscious interface then, yes, the PCs are effectively smarter. I'd
> > avoid the later possibility. 
> 
> If we get it at all, there's no reason why an "unconcious" interface
> would be any harder than a "concious" one. In fact, I'll bet that once
> we crack the "code" and can interface to the brain, we'll have to put
> in a lot of work to *filter out* "unconcious" thoughts.
> 
> Basicly, your "concious" interface seems to be more akin to interfacing
> to the *sensory* and *motor* nerves, and exchanging data and commands
> that way. Among other things, this will have a steep learning curve, as
> it'll be like learning to use a new "sense" (for input) or a new "limb"
> (for output). Doable, but not necessarily easy. It may not be any
> harder than learning to use a mouse with a GUI. But that *isn't* as
> easy as many folks think. I have to *teach* that to people and some
> have a *really* hard time picking up the skill.
> 
> But a true *brain* interface would be what you call "unconcious". The
> impulse occurs, and the computer carries it out. It may be "what if we
> did this?" or it might be "Let's blow them away *now*." In the former
> case, you'd get a scenario simulation (probably sort of like
> "imagining" it happening, only you'd know what the odds of things
> were), in the latter, you'd get targeting crosshairs and a "Fire? Y/N"
> type prompt. :-)
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:31:13 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2144 (fwd)
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > A) Macro viruses _DO_ contain executable code, most are merely
> > content to spread themselves around, but MS Word basic does have the
> > ability to get out there and mess with the file system. Examples that
do
> > disrupt the 'host' are rare, for the simple reason that messing with a
> > Win95 host usually means the standard "nuke and reinstall" response to
> > virtually any Win95 problem. This means, essentially that the virus
> > 'kills' it's host before it gets a chance to spread. This is one
> > reason that most computer viruses actually do damage very rarely, so
> > as to enable them to spread.
> >
> > B) ALL computer viruses require 'a very specific application' to be
> > installed on the target computer, it's called 'the operating system'.
> > This is why current computer viruses (with one exception) are OS
specific.
> > There are Mac viruses (37 of them) Unix viruses (two or three), Apple
II
> > viruses (probably the earliest viruses written and released into the
wild,
> > circa 1977 or so), and all the hordes of MS-DOS viruses. There are a
few
> > Windows and Windows95 specific viruses.
> >
> > Because, by definition, the OS is a program you are running all the
time,
> > in the background, you 'open' regular viruses just like you open a Word
> > document, which either invalidates your definition of viruses, by
making
> > them _all_ trojans (you have to execute code to have them function) or
> > macro viruses are indeed viruses. 
> >
> > The example I used, of having my system set up to recognize and open
word
> > documents automatically, when encountered in e-mail or web browsing
makes
> > them essentially, the same as any other computer virus...when
encountered
> > under the right conditions, it automatically infects your system.
> >
> > Macro virii are the only _non OS specific_ viruses existing, in that
they
> > can infect Word and Excel on both platforms they run on. (ThankYEW
Unca'
> > Billy...in one fell swoop the virus population that could infect a Mac
> > went from 37 to thousands...) 
> 
> No, even macro viruses are "OS specific". It's just that for *them* the
> "OS" is Word!
> 
> > I think, however, at the heart of this argument, is that people have
some
> > picture of computers in Traveller as PC-XT's writ large. They are not! 
> 
> It helps to have experience with non-PC systems. :-) Even the Mac
> doesn't have much in the way of security. But my first OS, the late
> lamented TRSDOS had better security than *netware*. Even better than
> Unix, except for the fact that the Z80 didn't have a "protected mode". 
> 
> > This makes studying computer viruses today as an example of what Virus
is
> > comparable to studying bear attacks to cope with an Ebola outbreak. 
> 
> Multi-OS viruses are *possible*. It's just that your typical virus
> author isn't *really* all that innovative. Consider the Internet Worm.
> It attacked *two* different OSes on different *platforms*!
> 
> It took advantage of a known software weakness. Namely the fact that
> message buffers weren't protected against overflow. So it just caused
> an overflow where the "extra" characters were executable code that
> wound up getting loaded were it'd do the least good.
> 
> I don't have a problem with a multi-platform virus. I have a problem
> with one that causes *hardware* changes in systems not designed to be
> self modifying. And with one that infects via *sensors*. Or can infect
> dedicated systems running *ROM* based code.Or can infect systems that
> are *designed* to not allow data to become program (such *will* exist,
> for security reasons, and there are even computer designs where code
> and data are kept *strictly* seperate. It's *impossible* to write
> self-modifying code on such a system)
> 
> And even so, I described how the Virus *could* have done what they
> wanted it to do. I was just pissed that the "canon" Virus was described
> in a manner that didn't make the "reasonable" way possible.
> 
> short version of my idea:
> 
> The Virus *can* take over transponders. They are both "alive" and the
> same "OS". From there, the living chip starts cannibalizing spare
> silicon nearby.
> 
> It then extends "tendrils" down any connections it has and when it
> encounters a chip/system, it studies the signals (and possibly even the
> actual chip structure). It then sets up part of itself to "take over"
> the functions of the chip, and connects that across the chip's I/O,.
> Then it disconnects the chip and processes it for raw materials.
> 
> Whenever it "assimilates" a complete "card", it can create a simulacrum
> to replace the function, and have it hooked to the *card's* I/O. Then
> it can assimilate the rest of the card *and* reprocess the chip level
> simulacra. And given that even in the future, I bet stock "chips" will
> be used more than custom ones, the card simulacra will be *simpler*
> than the sum of the chip simulacra simply because most designs don't
> *use* all the functions of the chips making them up.
> 
> When the virus has assimilated all the "cards" in a "unit", it can just
> place a simulacrum across the *unit's* I/O. And again, simplify the
> system. Even more, at this level it can likely delete functions it
> doesn't *want* to support. And again, it spreads tendrils down the
> connections to other units. Also, it can remove the simulacra for any
> connections it controls both ends of. 
> 
> And all the while it can replicate itself in any unit that is big
> enough, and network smaller units to at least run a copy "in common".
> After a while the only things that *won't* be part of it will be the
> actual readouts and input devices. It can just display what it wants to
> the crew and ignore any instructions it doesn't need to pass on to
> unassimalated units. In short, the crew is running a *simulation* of
> the ship, they just don't know it yet. :-)
> 
> As it goes along, it'll probably wait until it has the power and other
> "critical" systems under control before it attacks. At which point
> things happen like life support being shut off (or run in ways that are
> *worse* than having it off). Anti-hijack systems start attacking the
> crew, etc. The weapons may attack any nearby ships that don't indicate
> (via hidden signals in the transponder codes) that they are infected
> and in the process of moving towards a takeover. Heck, it may even
> attack them just to keep the crew's attention elsewhere.
> 
> The key difference between my version and the "canon" version is this:
> In the canon version, the virus can infect "any" system simply be
> sending code at it. It can even infect through *sensors*. 
> 
> In mine, it can infect the Imperial transponders, and they can infect
> anything they can get to *physically* (or if you grant the telekinetic
> ability that some say the Cymbeline chips have, anything within the
> (rather short) TK range. 
> 
> This slows the spread of the virus somewhat, and makes it a *bit*
> easier to guard against (after all, it can use all that spare silicon
> to create "spores" that can be scattered around waiting for a ship to
> get close, or to be spread around a planet. Or maybe they'd be like
> fake insects...
> 
> One *advantage* of my version is that it makes "taking back" an
> infected system hopeless. The virus has *rebuilt* it. And if you kill
> the power (and that copy was dumb enough not to have *local* storage of
> power) you *still* can't restore any of the functions the virus deemed
> "unnecessary".
> 
> That would help explain why tech crashed so far, so fast.
> 
> I *like* my version of the virus. Among other things, it's "sneakier".
> And just think of the fun if the players get suspicious and open up an
> assimilated unit (assuming the virus hasn't bothered "welding" the
> cover on :-). 
> 
> "You get the cover off. The inside doesn't look like anything you've
> ever seen before. There aren't any cards or wires. Instead, what's in
> there looks almost like a plant root system. Like something that
> *grew*. But it's metal, plastic and ceramics."
> 
> "As you stare, part of it shifts and you are blinded by a bright
light...."
> 
> (The virus noticed they were opening the case and built some *powerful*
> diode lasers. As soon as they were finished, it targeted the players'
> eyes. It *probably* didn't waste enough resources to do permanent
> damage. But the players will be blind for a few hours. More than long
> enough for the virus to have them in deep shit. :-)
> 
> Compare that to what you'd see with the canon Virus:
> 
> "You get the cover off. Everything looks normal."
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:57:22 +0000
> From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
> Subject: Re: FF&S2 errata?
> 
> > 	Is there any errata available for FF&S2?
> > 
> > 	In particular, does anyone have the price for Endurance life support 
> > (Table 209), instead of a bunch of "??"s?
> > 
> > 	hmmph. And I needed those numbers for my K'kree battleship design...
> 
> Take a look at Joe Heck's website at 
> 
> http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/
> 
> Go to the Errata page and then to FF&S.
> 
> Suz
> 
> 
> Suzette C. Dollar
> #Traveller Channel Manager
> suzd@goodnet.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:58:44 -0000
> From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
> Subject: Re: Arrival Vengeance and the other one
> 
> It was 'Assignment Vigilante'. Got it, Never read it but it's set in
> Promise subsector of Diaspora, described in 'Astrogators guide to
> Diaspora Sector' released at approximately the same time.
> 
> Arrival Vengeance, Assignment Vigilante,
> Why this prevelance of A..V.. ?
> 
> ?Armageddon Virus?
> Were they trying to tell us something?
> Am I just paranoid?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Del
> 
> Derrick Jones
> St Helens
> Lancashire UK
> dojones@whitestar.u-net.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 97 14:33 GMT0
> From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
> Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons (the pipeline is open?)
> 
> In-Reply-To: <a6360594.34884d6d@aol.com>
> 
> FKiesche,
> 
> > And: Still no Citizens of the Imperium! It's nearly January 1998, which
would
> > make it a year since the January 1997 release date and a half year
since the
> > July 1997 second release date (and the time I was charged). I think IG
ought
> > to give it up and credit us all who were charged or had checks cashed.
Can you
> > say "vaporware"?
> >
> 
> If you've already been charged for CotI, you should be getting the
discount. 
> Well, that's what I was told, but I'm not convinced.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
>  "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:19:57 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > I thought some Secret Service rushed into the MPGN Office and withheld 
> > all material on the lists as they did with Steve Jackson Games.
> >
> > Or MJ-12 misinterpreted some posting about the Hive ...
> 
> No, no. It was a new Man in Black who thought we were discussing *real*
> aliens and alien technology. 
> 
> ps. Anybody tried to do Traveller stats for the weapons in the movie? :-)
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:13:05 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Force fields
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
> >> 
> >> >Two quick questions about black globes:
> >> >
> >> 
> >> Oh, and one more thing. What if you fired up your force field while in
jump
> >> transit? Does the universe as we know it end?
> >
> > I would rule a misjump. Perhaps even catastrophic. Rationale: the black
> > globe absorbs the energy of the protective jumpspace field surrounding
> > the ship, making it impossible to remain in jumpspace.
> >
> > Creative Ref's might use this as a rare, high tech and highly risky
> > method of circumventing the one week jump time limit. :-)
> 
> I'd be tempted to have the globe absorb the ship due to the influence
> of the jumpspace bubble. :-)
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:14:55 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> >>>Woo hoo!!!! It's alive! IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!!!
> >>
> >>"Woo Hoo"  Minbari phrase meaning "only 30 seconds?"
> >
> > Actually, it's Aslan -- an insult used extensively by an emmisary named
> > Hobbes when mocking a six-year-old (and self-described genius)
Solomani's
> > plots for fame, glory, and world domination.
> 
> No, no. Calvin is *obviously* a member of Famile Spofulam's junior
> design team. He'd fit in *perfectly*. Hobbes is an Aslan assigned to
> "supervise" the team.
> 
> <next: Garfield and Odie interpreted as an Aslan/Vargr pairing. Nermal
> is a female Aslan. Question for discussion: which human race is
> Garfield's "owner"[1]?>
> 
> [1] Sorry, my mind went blank on his name...
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:52:11 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Re : PMPP field-testing
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> >>and (3) would a PMPP have static electric effects from the intense
magnetic
> >>fields ... I am kind of thinking purple wand, but a lot lot lot worse.
> >
> > WOW.  Well, it does _now_.  Have to admit, I hadn't thought of that
before...
> > Ominous rising whine as it powers up, accompanied by blue-sparking
static
> > electricity making the bearer's hair stand on end... the baleful red
glare
> > of the targeting laser winks on and peeps past the concealing kevlar
> > overcoat... lurid violet electricity crackles and crawls around the hip
> > area... cheery beep! when it's fully charged... nearby espresso
machines
> > malfunction... Moral Majoritarians within range fall into apopleptic
> > fits...
> 
> I'm not worried that *I* understand the "purple wand" reference. I'm
> not *too* worried that Kenji does (not after that bit about "old dildo
> harness"). I *am* worried that someone else on the list expected folks
> to get it.
> 
> Gee, I didn't think we were *that* kinky around here. :-)
> 
> Maybe we should start thread on "future kinks" :-)
>  
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2154
> ***********************************
> 
> To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:
> 
> unsubscribe traveller-digest
> 
> in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
> to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
> such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
> "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":
> 
> subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net
> 
> A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
> subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
> in the commands above with "traveller".
> 
> Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2155
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2156



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: New Topics - Suggestion
Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications
Re: Brawling, Melee, & Martial Arts
Re: Technological conservatism.
Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters
Re: Uncie Hengieeeee
Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications
IG, JTAS and GURPS
Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications
Re: macro viruses, VM viruses
Rules of GMing
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters
Re: Uncie Hengieeeee
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Azhanti High Lightning observation...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:57:42 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: New Topics - Suggestion

>    I've been working on various ideas for the  couple of campaigns  that I
>GM and I thought that I'd drop a note to  the list and see what all the
>other GM's have done in the same  vein.   Has anyone created their own
>races, based upon ?  favorite books? serial novels? movies? tv shows?    
>Please advise. Inquiring Minds want to know.   Thanks Pat Connaughton   

Being relatively new to running a long-term Traveller game, I have created
only a couple of races.  What I do at first is pick a planet that will house
an alien culture (good bets, at least initially, are worlds with very low
Tech, since they'll be interdicted and you don't have to introduce the race to
the outside world too quickly), then I think of one or two traits that make
the alien race unique.  I'm a big believer that alien races should not fill a
niche that is already possessed by another Trav race.

I try not to take ideas from movies, television, and books because to me  it
just doesn't sit right.  I wouldn't want to take alien races out of their
natural habitat.  I mean, isn't that against the law or something? :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:07:46 -0700
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications

Phil McGregor wrote:

[snippage]
>So, what *can* be done to save them? Any ideas?
>Or, equally, are they worth saving? Any ideas?

....along with several other comments concerning the potential demise of IG,
or even Traveller.

I'd say that if IG goes belly up, it's their own fault, but I don't think
that this reflects on Traveller or even the new system (T4, T4.1).

If there's a demand, someone will produce it. Look at other games that have
been shuffled from one backer or producer to another. TFG and Star Fleet
Battles have had many different monetary backers. Ars Magica has changed
companies, yet is still in production. Even the mighty AD&D has not been
immune from financial hardships.

I believe that the question should not be "Should we save IG ?" but "How
can we continue to make Traveller a viable, quality game no matter who
holds the purse-strings ?"

We, the demend, hold sway over the supply if we only make ourselves heard.
If the "supply" doesn't listen, then they'll perish... and some new supply
will start. If anything we need to ensure that the new or old "supply"
lives up to the Traveller legacy.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:19:35 -0700
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Brawling, Melee, & Martial Arts

Marc Miller wrote:

>My take is that Martial Arts is assumed/contained under Melee. Higher levels
>of the skill give greater ability. Brawling is for big free-for-alls; Melee is
>for one-on-one fights.

OK, I'm fine with that, but I'd suggest a slight change to the Brawling
description to make it slightly more clear.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:14:36 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:08:46 EST, SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
>Well, in my defense I had acknowledged that teleportation was more or less
>impossible as we know physics today.  :)

>But, then, to be a devil's advocate:  reactionless thrusters break physical
>laws on a daily basis, and people _complained_ when someone put a more
>realistic system in with TNE.


Actually, there is a reason for this and a fundamental point.
One is allowed suspension on disbelief on a point to set up
a setting.  However, if you continue to demand suspension
of disbelief, esp. without a fundamental motivation, thing
just begin to become hokey.

The FTL drive and reactionless thrusters are necessary to set
up a the kind of interstellar travel necessary for the setting.
This doesn't mean you can simply tack on things like teleportation.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:57:27 -0600 (CST)
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, SemoFetus wrote:

> >Does anyone know if the final Bilanidin Font was ever completed and is it
> >available for the PC? Also what's happened to the Aslan fonts...???
> >
> >Update please?
> 
> I was doing the Aslan fonts, but my finals came up, and I had to spend all
> kinds of crazy time in the lab, and...  blah blah blah.
> 

	If and when you have them time (I'm in the middle of exams right 
now as well, so there's no hurry) if you could give me some guidance on 
how you're creating this font, I'd appreciate it.

	You see, one of many ideas I've had bouncing around in the back 
of my head is K'kree font...


K.C. Komosky
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:46:30 GMT
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
Subject: Re: Uncie Hengieeeee

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:13:23, you wrote:


>**************************************************************
>
>Personally, I think that this TL12 design is an abomination in the sight of
>God and Man.
>
>Apart form making life impossible for grav tanks, it is also one hell of a
>weapon to turn any freighter into a Q-ship.
>
>Remember, you have a zero-second delay, counterfire-proof, speed of light
>artillery weapon *at TL 12*. And I'm sure I could build a TL11 version.
>
>If your name happens to be Marc Miller, please say that Meson Guns have a
>minimum length of, say, fifty meters at TL11, reducing by 10 meters per
>tech level. Otherwise, really really strange things will happen to Imperial
>Military doctrine - especially Marine doctrine.
>
>With Marines in battle dress costing in the hundred kilo-credit range, it
>is worth using a Solution to skeet-shoot them individually.
>
>Marines will also abandon the Fusion Gun for their new role as artillery
>spotters. Forget Combat Rifleman or FGMP skill - Forward Observer will be
>standard for Marines.

No, what will happen is TL 15 Imperial Marines will have man-portable
meson guns more powerful than the one above! When every Marine has a
sure killer like this weapon, everyone of them will have two skills;
Forward Observer and Heavy Weapons. No need for anything else other
than a short range personal weapon for when the enemy is within meson
gun lethal range from some other Marine.

Or you could just withdraw out of range and call in the meson strike
from every other member of the squad....

John Lansford

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:17:13 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications

>I don't know what can be done to save them ... I don't even know that they're
>*worth* saving. One solution that's been tried is for people on this list to
>actually write good stuff for them ... and they have. Unfortunately, the
people
>at IG have always managed to stuff it up with the greatest of ease!

Back in the August/September region I was inclined to disagree with you when
you made a statement almost exactly the same as this one.  My disagreement was
that FF&S2 was a step up in quality for them, not a step down.  In addition,
they had done a really competent job on both Emperor's Arse (as my gaming
group affectionately calls it :) and Central Supply Catalog.

Then, I took a look at Emperor's Vehicles.  I liked it more or less, but the
quality was shoddy.  Tech Levels are something that have been in Trav since
late TL7.  They've been a solid part of the Trav universe and flavor...

Then, poof, they're not there.

I like to think IG is worth saving, only because without them, then eventually
I'll have to deal with GURPs Trav.  I just won't have the time to convert the
new source material to the old style.  I hardly have time to keep getting a
new scenario every week for my players, and I'm not as busy as I will be in
the near future.

The other reason to save IG is that I genuinely like T4.  I thought I wouldn't
at the beginning, but it is an amazingly simple and intuitive system (half-
dice and all :).  I don't, however, like GURPs.  I think the system is clunky
and slows down the game (granted, alot has to do with the fact that I'm not
familiar with it) and combat is time-consuming.

>So, what *can* be done to save them? Any ideas?

A massive mailing campaign to let them know that we don't want the game to be
thrown down the toilet.  To let them know that it is just not _right_ to put
out shoddy product with terrible support...

The second is getting someone who has at least the tiniest clue about graphic
design, page layout, and proofreading, and getting a group of experienced (and
inexperienced) Trav gamers to volunteer to playtest the new stuff that will be
coming out.  T4 _looks_ terrible (and its not merely the Foss artwork on the
covers).  The original black books had better layout, and they were most
probably done on very primitive mechanical equipment.  Artwork is important
too.  The guy who has been doing the interior art lately is excellent (he did
Empy's Arse, FF&S2, and Empy's Vehicles), but, a little variation would be
nice.  Especially if the artwork and the text could be integrated a little
better (I can't stand that in every book, its a few pages of dense words, and
all of the tables are on a seperate page.  Sometimes, its okay (FF&S2 for
example) but in most other cases its a big pain).

Does anyone have a clue about layout on this list?  I would be more then happy
to send in a sample of what I can do to Imperium Games.  I would welcome the
chance to do something I would enjoy and get paid for it.

Any artists floating around?  Again, I'd gladly submit a portfolio of what I
can do to IG.

I mean, here we are, I don't mean this as an insult, the Traveller Geeks.  The
regulars here are probably the core of people who are most into and interested
in Traveller as a whole.  We have the love for the game that IG is lacking
(and that GDW, even in its final days had in great abundance).

The love of the game is the part that _could_ save the game.

>Or, equally, are they worth saving? Any ideas?

As I stated, I think they are, because I think that T4 is well worth saving.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:02:21 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IG, JTAS and GURPS

Well, I think it could be time to take another good look at just what IG is
producing/has produced. Lots of comments have been made about poor proof
reading that aren't totally justified. Remember that in the publishing
industry the possiblitiy of producing a 128 page first edition totally free
of errors is considered the holy grail (something to be strived for but
generally totally impossible). IG has produced 1 rules book, 13 suppliments,
1 hard cover suppliment, 2 adventures, 2 JTAS and 1 referee's screen (a grand
total of 20 products). Of these 3 (starships, first survey and emperor's
vehicles) have been of inferior quality to the extent where I would advise
a friend not to buy them. Of the others, 1 (fire, fusion and steel) has had
major formating errors and 2 (the rule book and emperor's arsenal) have had
annoying formating errors. Thats a grand total of 6 products which I would
regard as being 'problems', all the rest fit well within the catergory of
quality products. IG *is not* continually pushing out crap. It has put out
far to many problem products (30%) and needs to take a good hard look at
things. But please bear in mind the other 70%. Perhaps IG should pay
attention to how a few bad products can so taint your image.

Now on to the demise of JTAS. It could be because of lack of money, but this
is not the only possible cause. I would appear to me that IG is recognising
that it can't get JTAS out the door on a regular basis and dropping it on
that grounds. It could also be difficulty in obtaining quality articles
on a regular basis (which given the level of posts here, on Travlang, ISBA,
HWIG and the web, would mean that IG just isn't looking). The demise of JTAS
does not automatically mean that IG is teatering on the edge of oblivion. It
*may* mean that but it *may* mean a lot of things. I regard it as a bad sign,
but I'm not going to start writing epitaphs just yet.

Now on to GURPS:Traveller. This is *not* Traveller, this is GURPS Space set
in the Third Imperium. It is GURPS and GURPS is simply not Traveller, it just
doesn't 'feel' the same. GURPS Space feels too much like Star Wars, Battlestar
Galaticia, Star Trek etc. for my tastes. Now to me this doesn't matter; I
have more than enough Traveller material in it's various incarnations to keep
playing in my little non-Canon universe until the crack of doom. But I will
be very sad to see the demise of Traveller. Now in my wildest fantasies if IG
goes belly up I'd like to see Marc Millar giving the TML, HWIG, ISBA et al an
open non-profit licence to continue Traveller; BUT I think that will happen
when I see the flocks of Pigs migrating north past my window! Hold no
illusions, if IG goes under, with GURPS:Traveller, no other publisher will
pick it up; the Third Imperium will continue, but Traveller will be dead.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:59:22 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications

Phillip McGregor writes:

>No-one has mentioned the (bleeding) obvious yet (perhaps for fear of flaming),
>so I'll bite the bullet <asbestos underwear on> ...

   Fear of flame, or lack of concern?  When news of trouble at GDW
began, the rumor mill cranked up full tilt.  You don't see that now. 
Maybe its just that we've all been down this road before, but I sense
that some people are actually hoping your rumor is true.

   I will say what I said when GDW went under almost two years ago--be
careful what you wish for, you may not like the consequences of your
wish.

>If IG cannot make a go of publishing the Journal, then how close to the wall are
>they for the rest of their business?

   Hard to say.  I'm not aware of any financial data that is available
in the public dominion, and even if there were Sweetpea Entertainment
hasn't been around long enough to have any kind of established finanical
history.  You could ask SE for their monthly sales figures for the last
year and that would probably tell you all you need to know.  They will
give you that information too, right after it snows in the Amazon
rainforest...

   Perhaps Loren or Marc could correct me if I'm wrong, but sourcebooks
seem to me to be much less labor intensive (assuming you use freelance
writers) and therefore have a much higher profit margins than journals. 
This would be particularly true if you can get your authors to work for
free and send you "ready for the printer" or minimal prep material (in
an electronic format ready to be "cut and pasted" into a document).  It
could be that Sweetpea is just trying to maximize its return on
Traveller and eliminating JTAS was one way to do that.

>It doesn't look good -- they have to rush incompletely (or *never*) proof-read
>products into production because they haven't the Time (and time = money) to do
>the job properly. They have *never* been able to produce a quality product that
>is proof-read adequately (and, in fact, the situation seems to be getting worse
>with some of the recent efforts like FF&S#2). They make promise after promise
>about T4.1 (now for a post Xmas release, I guess), but we see nothing (and, yes,
>unless they stuffed up my order, I have one in for it ... if it ever sees the
>light of day). They cut ties with the only designer that seems to have had a
>consistent, realistic, and logical "clue" ... Greg Porter.

   There is a big difference between being poor and being cheap.  IG is
cheap (Marc has had to teach them how to spend money on managing an RPG
properly), but are they also poor?  We don't know at this point.  My
guess (based on some conversations I've had with people who should know
something) is that IG is undergoing some change of focus, and what's
happening now is not based on financial concerns.

>All the anecdotes we've heard, all the evidence we've seen, seems to be quite
>definite that IG is seriously undercapitalised -- so is it really surprising
>that JTAS has been dumped?

   Again, we don't have any idea what their finances look like.  Back
when I did my analysis of GDW's finanical state there things in the
public dominion that you could point to and say "GDW is headed into a
downward spiral".  There is nothing like that here except that JTAS and
Citizens of the Imperium (which IMHO raised about as much enthusiasm as
Euro Disney) are on hiatus.

   No, when or even if the end come for Imperium Games, it will be
sudden and there will be no tell tale signs.  It will just happen and we
will all continue on.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:06:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: macro viruses, VM viruses

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > In 3I, with reconfigurable CPU pathways (although apparently still a
> > binary logic), you have the possibility of a dynamic VM loaded into the
> > hardware from secondary storage.  (Regardless of TL, it is quite probable
> > that there will always be the distinctions of primary storage, secondary
> > storage, and processing hardware).  If it is only software complexity that
> > limits the ability to produce AI, then it would be possible to create an
> > AI on lower TL hardware using this technique.  Since they did create AIs
> > on lower TL hardware, we might assume that this is the case.
> 
> But on the other hand a VM of this sort runs a lots *slower* than
> native code.

True.  Whether that matters or not depends on the speed of the underlying
hardware, together with the temporal requirements of a particular
application being run on the virtual machine.  For applications that need
to run as quickly as possible, native code will always be preferable.  For
AI applications, I was implicitly suggesting that it might not matter in
the 3rd Imperium.

If the hardware is designed to directly execute code for a particular VM,
there is no difference in speed.

> BTW, Computers *don't* have to use von Neumann architecture. In other
> words "storage" be it primary or secondary *doesn't* have to be
> *shared* by code and data. Systems have been built where code is stored
> seperately* from data at the *hardware* level. 

True, and, as you mentioned below, such architectures are of considerable
theoretical interest.  As viruses continue to do more and more damage to
our economy, interest in hardware solutions to the virus problem will
continue to increase.  More development efforts in such architectures is
probably forthcoming in science and industry.

Hardware solutions won't help, of course, when we try and do something
crazy like build a computer that can change its own circuit pathways. ;)

> In such a system you can load anything you want into the data stream
> and it won't corrupt the code. The code is effectively "in ROM" at all
> times. The system just gets to switch between the ROMs. But the code
> and data are kept seperate at the *register* level. It's not possible
> to load an opcode register from the data store or to load an operand
> register from the code store.

The system will be vulnerable at whatever point in time and space the code
store gets loaded.  The problem with current systems is that there are too
many points at which the code store can be loaded, because the code store
is the same logical object as the data store (segments are arbitrary and
defined at runtime, after code is loaded).

Once the two are separated, there will be a whole volume of OS design
problems that have to be addresed:  Who decides when the code store can be
written?  When is the decision made?  Does the user always get notified,
with the option of canceling the write?  What will be done to facilitate
installation software (will the user have to approve *each* write, or can
he/she approve a related group of writes, and when does approval expire)?
That last one is the killer; there is a huge price tag attached. 

Clearly, all code loaded into a machine must first reside in the data
store (be it primary or secondary), since a program's code will be
distributed together with its data, and the same distribution media
(network, disk) will probably be used for both.  Likewise, newly written
software will reside in the data store.  Hence, there must be some kind of
data pathway that goes between the data store and the code store.  While
we can take every precaution that the software controlling this path is
non-hostile, we will always have a certain vulnerability here.  There is
always the possibility that the user will let a hostile program into the
system unintentionally (either through implicit or explicit approval, and
the implicit approval is where the real threat comes from, which is why
those OS questions are so important). 

> Developement on such systems is slow (for one thing because you have to
> write assemblers/compilers rather differently, and debuggers *have* to
> be hardware).

The debugger can also be a virtual machine for many applications.  Some
tests, though, have to be conducted directly on the system.

> But it continues because they have advantages in
> applications where you *can't* have "viruses" and the like happen. They
> are also apparently of some theoretical interest. 

Never let a Vampire into your house.  8-)  A hostile program can always
attack your system once it's running in the CPU.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:13:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Rules of GMing

> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 97 02:41:10 -0600
> From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> 
> On 12/12/97 at 11:30 PM,  Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net> said:
> 
> >Rule 1) Never make it too easy to destroy the universe.
> 
> >Rule 2) Never let the players have characters wierder or more evil than
> >the bad guys.
> 
> Rule 3) Never do the expected, unless the players know you never do the
>         expected.
> 
> Rule 4) Never give the players anything they want without a struggle,
>         but always give them what they're asking for when "they're
>         asking for it."

I like this one, but with a twist.  *Sometimes* let the players have
something they want with little or no effort...it leaves 'em paranoid,
waiting for the other shoe to drop. :)
         
> Rule 5) And remember it is much easier to build a new character than a
>         new universe, or even scenerio.

Hrmmmm...I don't know.  They're both hard in different ways.

My own contributions:

Rule 6)  Don't put the Fate of the Universe (/Kingdom/Nation) in your
         characters hands right away.

         Work up through petty rivalries, low-impact warfare, or whatever
         before starting The Quest for Argh-Thuk.  Characters develop
         better in 'normal' situations.

Rule 7)  Avoid starting an arms race.

         If you give the players a TL-50 zap-o-tron with unlimited ammo,
         they'll rule the Imperium in short order unless you throw a TL-52
         killamatic-armed Ancient horde at them...at which point the
         characters will either (a) die or (b) be armed with TL-52
         killamatics taken from the vanquished Ancients.  Neither's good
         for the campaign.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:40:28 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

Some list of Traveller aliens I got off the web (don't have reference or
document now, sorry) named a minor species in Aslan space called something
like the Huosua, which it described as nasty and xenophobic and "a
possibility for Aliens".  I don't remember what reference to published
description it gave.  Anyone else know anything about this?


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http:/www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http:/www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:40:23 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Bilanidin Font Equivalent Sounds/ Letters

K.C. Komosky wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, SemoFetus wrote:
>
>> >Does anyone know if the final Bilanidin Font was ever completed and is it
>> >available for the PC? Also what's happened to the Aslan fonts...???
>> >
>> >Update please?
>>
>> I was doing the Aslan fonts, but my finals came up, and I had to spend all
>> kinds of crazy time in the lab, and...  blah blah blah.
>>
>
>        If and when you have them time (I'm in the middle of exams right
>now as well, so there's no hurry) if you could give me some guidance on
>how you're creating this font, I'd appreciate it.
>
>        You see, one of many ideas I've had bouncing around in the back
>of my head is K'kree font...

<hiss> Join us... <hiss> join us... <hiss> it is your destiny... <hiss>

            <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>

The TravLang list eagerly welcomes even K'kreephiles!

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:21:43 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Uncie Hengieeeee

Kenji wrote:

>
>Ditzie channelled through Ian:
>
>>Uncie-wunkie,
>[snip vision of a bright and glorious future]
>>Your loving cousin,
>
>Wait a sec -- is Hengabar the cousin or the uncle of Ditzie?  And wait
>another sec -- do I really want to know?


	Probably both, repeatedly :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:24:33 -0600
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:14:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

In mail you write:

>>>Woo hoo!!!! It's alive! IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!!!
>>
>>"Woo Hoo"  Minbari phrase meaning "only 30 seconds?"
>
> Actually, it's Aslan -- an insult used extensively by an emmisary
named
> Hobbes when mocking a six-year-old (and self-described genius)
Solomani's
> plots for fame, glory, and world domination.

No, no. Calvin is *obviously* a member of Famile Spofulam's junior
design team. He'd fit in *perfectly*. Hobbes is an Aslan assigned to
"supervise" the team.

<next: Garfield and Odie interpreted as an Aslan/Vargr pairing. Nermal
is a female Aslan. Question for discussion: which human race is
Garfield's "owner"[1]?>

[1] Sorry, my mind went blank on his name...

- - --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

Pfhee... Obviously Solomani...

Who else could screem that much over nada?

(from a 100% "sol man")

William
- --
William A. Barnett-Lewis
wlewis@mailbag.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We are artists.  Poets paint motion  and light.  Historians paint
stills.  It can be dangerous to get history from a poet.  It can also be
the greatest blessing."
      Larry Miller Murdock
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:12:44 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Azhanti High Lightning observation...

This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

- --------------ms4ABA64EB8B4935E5FA6F4146
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I was flipping through my old Supplement 5 today (I do that know and
then...nostalgia(sp))

I noticed the following ship names:
  Azhanti High Lightning
  Sylean High Lightning
  Vilani High Lightning
  Fiorin High Lightning
  Geonee High Lightning
  Acheron High Lightning
  Suerrat High Lightning
  Illurian High Lightning
  Luriani High Lightning
  
The ships seem to be named after races/cultures...I recognize Sylean,
Vilani, Geonee and Suerrat. Which begs the question:

Who/what are the Azhanti/Fiorin/Acheron/Illurian/Luriani?

Does anyone know any canon (or non-canon, for that matter) information
about these?

Just curious...

(I'm thinking about making a FF&S2 version of AHL...thus I was reviewing
my books)

- -- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                        |
| Igor Software - igor@ames.net, www.ames.net/igor/                   |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your   |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your  |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love      |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your   |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has toched mine.                |
|                      - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"             |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
- --------------ms4ABA64EB8B4935E5FA6F4146
Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s"
Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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- --------------ms4ABA64EB8B4935E5FA6F4146--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2156
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 14 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2157



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

TravIRC
TravIRC
Complete stats for Kirur system
Re: Technological conservatism.
Maps for Covenant of Sufren
Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications
Re: Technological conservatism.
Re: Recoil experiments
Jumpspace Theory (This may be long, about 50 lines on my program)
Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
Re: Maps for Covenant of Sufren
Re: Re : PMPP field-testing
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2156
Re: Azhanti High Lightning observation..
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Technological conservatism.
Re: macro viruses, VM viruses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:19:14 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: TravIRC

Greetings!

This week we'll be discussing Imperial Media. What passes for 
entertainment? How much does it cost? Thoughts on reporters and the
news industry, etc.

We'll meet on Undernet, #Traveller at 8pm Central on Thursday, 
December 18, 1997.

Server of choice: StLouis.mo.us.undernet.org
Good backup:  Springfield.mo.us.undernet.org

I'll actually be in attendance this week and will have a log 
available on request.

CmdrX, does PlanetX still have room to archive these? And does anyone
have a log of last week's discussion of Religion?

Suz


Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:19:14 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: TravIRC

Greetings!

This week we'll be discussing Imperial Media. What passes for 
entertainment? How much does it cost? Thoughts on reporters and the 
news industry, etc.

We'll meet on Undernet, #Traveller at 8pm Central on Thursday, 
December 18, 1997.

Server of choice: StLouis.mo.us.undernet.org
Good backup:  Springfield.mo.us.undernet.org

I'll actually be in attendance this week and will have a log 
available on request.

CmdrX, does PlanetX still have room to archive these? And does anyone 
have a log of last week's discussion of Religion?

Suz


Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:45:50 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Complete stats for Kirur system

	Here's a little something I came up with last summer in Thompson, 
Manitoba. I hunted through every old CT or MT book for any scrap of 
information on Kirur, the K'kree homeworld, and then generated complete 
stats for the entire system, as well as World Builder's Handbook stats for 
Kirur's physical characteristics (the social characteristics in WBH are so 
human-centered that there was no way to use them for the K'kree).

	Note this is all extrapolated from existing canon material. For example, 
taking Kirur's rotation period of 28.6 hours, and its orbit of 440 days 
(both stats from Alien Book 2), I calculated that Kirur's sun, Gzang (the 
name is given in Lords of Thunder) must have been an F8 VI star.


************************************************************************  
******************************

Kirur (Ruupiin 1315  B-863A0-F Hi, St 701 Kk)

	F8 VI		Gzang
0	H-500000-0	Eekrirk'
1	H-640000-0	Urne
   7	Y-400000-0	!t!'kruna
   8	Y-200000-0	L!teep't
   30	Y-300000-0	Ookrigrokii
2	Y-660000-0	At'ngexkox
3	B-863ARK-F K	Kirur
   9	F-6549QK-E	Kirrixur
4	LGG		Ghiikel
   1	Y-R00000-0	Xtacrxol'kaa
   7	Y-100000-0	Guk'r
   8	Y-300000-0	Eeb'rreeng'r
   30	Y-6042PK-E	K!!tu
   40	G-5341PK-E	Eet'grukog
   50	G-1A21PK-E	'lughuur
   55	F-7432PK-E	K'kr!!grur!gr


K'KREE GOVERNMENT CODES

P - Small station or facility maintained for the good of a family. 
Population must be 1 or 2.
Q - Ruled by a krurruna or a group of krumunak answerable to an offworld 
steppelord. Population must be 3 to 5
R - Ruled by a steppelord on-planet. Population must be 6 or more.
	(note - I made an exception to this for Kirrixur. Even though it is Pop 9, 
I feel it is ruled by the Steppelord of Kirur).

K'KREE LAW LEVELS

All K'kree worlds are given a law level of K. Only K'kree warriors can 
carry weapons. The law level for non-K'kree visitors is 1D+3 (and is 
re-rolled each time a world is visited).

K'KREE TRADE CLASSIFICATIONS

K'kree trade classifications are the same as human, except:
- - Rich - doesn't look at government type
- - Steppeworld - Size 7 or 8, Atmosphere 6 or 8, hydrographics 3 to 5

K'KREE BASES

K designates a K'kree naval base. O indicates  K'kree naval outpost.

WORLD BUILDER'S HANDBOOK

Kirur	B-863ARK-F

Diameter	8258 mi, 13212 km
Density		1.06 molten core
Mass		1.166
Gravity		1.094g
Orbit		440 days
Rotation	28.6 hours
Axial Tilt	6 degrees
Eccentricity	0.000
Seismic Stress	0
Atmosphe	Standard Oxy-Nit
Atm pressure	1.00
Stellar Lum	.8039
Orbit Factor	374.025
Energy Absorption	.860
Greenhouse Effect	1.10
Base Temp	284K, 11.45C

Hydrosphere 30%, 1 Tectonic Plate, 1 major ocean, 4 minor oceans, 3 small 
seas, 12 scattered lakes
Terrain terraforming, weather control

75,800,000,000 K'kree
Tech FF-FFFFF-FFFF-FF-G




K.C. Komosky
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca
p.s. more K'kree material will be coming over the next while, including 
perhaps some updated K'kree world generation

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:51:52 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

>Actually, there is a reason for this and a fundamental point.
>One is allowed suspension on disbelief on a point to set up
>a setting.  However, if you continue to demand suspension
>of disbelief, esp. without a fundamental motivation, thing
>just begin to become hokey.

This much I can understand.  However, now, to narrow down my whole point:  How
come no new technological advances have been added to the Traveller universe
since the Little Black Books.

>The FTL drive and reactionless thrusters are necessary to set
>up a the kind of interstellar travel necessary for the setting.
>This doesn't mean you can simply tack on things like teleportation.

The FTL drive, yes, I can agree with you on that 100%.  Hyper...  um...  Jump
Drives are one of the cornerstones of the Traveller universe.  However,
reactionless drives are not (and try as I may, I cannot find any early
references to reactionless drives).  Just sounds like a way to cut down on
paperwork to me, and not a terribly important part of the Traveller universe
otherwise.

Besides, I'm not advocating putting teleportation into Traveller, I was just
wondering why its perfectly alright to break the laws of physics, or
circumvent them sometimes, but not other times.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 05:57:22 +0100 (MET)
From: Steinar Knutsen <sk@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Maps for Covenant of Sufren

Could someone tell me where on the net, or what old product I should look
for to get some subsectors maps for the area in and around Covenant of
Sufren?

Sorry about the boring question,
Steinar Knutsen, stud.scient., SP4, PSA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:50:30 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications

>The second is getting someone who has at least the tiniest clue about graphic
>design, page layout, and proofreading, and getting a group of experienced (and
>inexperienced) Trav gamers to volunteer to playtest the new stuff that will be

This is an interesting point.  People are always mentioning the lack of
proofreading, but does anyone playtest it?  I remember seeing lists of
playtesters in other companies products, maybe I've just missed them in the
IG stuff.

>coming out.  T4 _looks_ terrible (and its not merely the Foss artwork on the
>covers).  The original black books had better layout, and they were most
>probably done on very primitive mechanical equipment.  Artwork is important
>too.  The guy who has been doing the interior art lately is excellent (he did
>Empy's Arse, FF&S2, and Empy's Vehicles), but, a little variation would be
>nice.  Especially if the artwork and the text could be integrated a little

I agree, I rather like the guy doing the latest interior artwork.  Far
better than the rest, more "Travelleresque".  But they really need to quit
reusing it.  I don't expect to see same artwork book after book.  I expect
to see it in one book, and I can accept reusing it in a magazine.

I am especally sick and tired of the same Foss artwork.  I didn't like it
when it was in the original book, I really dislike them then reusing it on
every book!

>Does anyone have a clue about layout on this list?  I would be more then happy
>to send in a sample of what I can do to Imperium Games.  I would welcome the
>chance to do something I would enjoy and get paid for it.
>
>Any artists floating around?  Again, I'd gladly submit a portfolio of what I
>can do to IG.

This is a good example of how I judge a RPG product these days if I with my
lack of artistic ability can produce materials for use in my own campaign
that look better than what is being sold something is wrong here.  In this
day and age it's childs play to produce starcharts, and deckplans that look
professional.

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 97 23:09:46 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

On 1997-12-13 8:51 pm, SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote the following:

>>The FTL drive and reactionless thrusters are necessary to set
>>up a the kind of interstellar travel necessary for the setting.
>>This doesn't mean you can simply tack on things like teleportation.
>
>The FTL drive, yes, I can agree with you on that 100%.  Hyper...  um...  Jump
>Drives are one of the cornerstones of the Traveller universe.  However,
>reactionless drives are not (and try as I may, I cannot find any early
>references to reactionless drives).  Just sounds like a way to cut down on
>paperwork to me, and not a terribly important part of the Traveller universe
>otherwise.

Actually, reactionless drives have been *implied* from the very 
beginning, since there was no mention in the early travel formulae of 
keeping track of reaction mass.

If there were no reactionless drives, then we would have to keep track of 
some kind of fuel, and constant accel/decel (see early tables and 
formulae) would be impossible.

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:00:53 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

>> This is definitely a feasible technology for even fairly high-recoil
>> weapons, and, I suspect, even for use by bipeds with (grossly) external
>> genitalia.  Why the hell hasn't anyone worked on developing this before???
>
>Two reasons.
>
>1. The phallic symbology of a weapon projecting from the crotch is just
>   *too* much.
>2. you can't fire it from behind cover. Your entire torso *and* head
>   are out there as a target. Compare this to a handgun or longarm,
>   where you only have to expose your head.

3. Extra expense for harness, recoil compensation, etc. which is completely
unnecessary in a conventional firearm.

4. Difficulty firing from a prone position.

5. Awkward to use with conventional jumpsuits, armor, chairs, crew
stations, weapon mounts, firing ports, etc.

6. Much longer time to ready or stow compared to a convention firearm.

7. Impractical to mount bayonets, flashlights, scopes, etc. on it.

8. How the heck do ya AIM the thing?! Like a sharpshooter, I mean. Mirrors?

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:13:14 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Jumpspace Theory (This may be long, about 50 lines on my program)

Jumpspace Theory

I am looking for opinions on Jumpspace. Following is a description on how I
believe Jumpspace works.

My only resources that describe jumpspace are from the MT: Players' Manual.

The first thing we know about Jumpspace is that we know very little. The
concept outlined in the Players' manual describes jump as the movement of
matter from one point in space to another point in space by traveling
through an alternate space. It takes about one week to travel through
jumpspace with a maximum distance of 6 parsecs.

We also know that a misjump can make a jump random in direction and
distance. Misjumps can break the 6-parsec limit.

The way I invision this process happening is this: First, I imagine our
universe as a piece of fabric. On the topside of the fabric is our universe
(our dimension) on the bottom side of the fabric is an alternate universe,
Jumpspace. The jumpdrive acts like a needle and thread. The drive punctures
the fabric from the top, drawing a piece of thread with it into the
alternate universe. The drive then pokes back up from the alternate universe
back into our normal universe, bringing the thread back into our universe.
The thread is then pulled tight pulling the fabric closer together,
shortening the distance between two points in normal space by passing
through an alternate space. The thread symbolizes jumpspace, a wormhole that
a ship travels through. The size of the jump drive would determine how much
thread can be created and maintained.

Misjumps can happen in a number of ways. First, navigation could have failed
and the destination point incorrect, making the distance and direction
random up to 6 parsecs. For jumps longer than 6 parsecs, other ideas come
into play. Two or more jump threads could get tangled together causing an
intersection in jumpspace. A whole web of jump threads come into mind this
way. A ship could be maintained in jumpspace if it crosses into another
ships jump thread and the other ship maintains the jump thread.
Theoretically, this could cause a ship to stay in jumpspace longer than one
week for a misjump. (Imagine how worried you would be after two or three
weeks in jumpspace). A properly working jumpdrive should be able to keep
itself in its own jump thread. This theory explains why it is so important
to keep ships maintained.

Ships that loose power or a jump thread is immediately sent back to normal
space. (Note: this is not instantaneous.) It would be possible to regain a
jump thread while still in the alternate space. The ship that looses power
would ride in the residual jump thread for a short time as the thread
dissipates. It would be possible to regain power and reinitiate the jump
drive to maintain the thread. If a ship looses a jump thread could attempt
to navigate towards the nearest jump thread. Of course, the destination of
the new jump thread would be completely unknown. Anytime a jump thread is
used that did not originate from your ship, travel is limited to the time
that thread is maintained by the host ship.

I think that these ideas help to role-play the disaster of a misjump.

If a ship is forced to enter normal space without the aid of a jump thread,
serious damage could result. The ship could easily be destroyed in the
process. (If it were easy to pass from alternate space to normal space
without a jump thread, jump drives would never be needed)

To answer a question posted earlier about a black globe and jumpspace.
Several things come to mind. Would the black glove shut down the jump
thread? Well, it might, but jumpspace is a part of physics that belong in an
alternate universe and would not necessarily work the way we expect. Worse
case scenario, I would say the jump thread could collapse and the ship would
be sent back towards normal space without a thread. The ship could
theoretically appear anywhere in normal space. The ship could still try and
locate another jump thread to attempt a somewhat safer trip back.

I would say, as a starship captain, do not risk playing around with what you
do not understand. Leave it up to the scientists to figure these things out.

I tried to think of why anyone would even want to activate a black globe in
jumpspace. The only reason I could think of is to appear in normal space
undetected. I think that the disturbance caused by the opening of a jump
portal would be obvious before the black globe was in range to cover it up.
The best bet there is to come out of jumpspace farther away than normal,
giving you plenty of time to activate the globe undetected.

I would like to here any feedback on these theories. Keep in mind, I have
not seen anything from TNE or T4. If there are any published articles, web
pages, or books that better describe jumpspace, please let me know.

Thank you,

- -Shawn

electric-stitch@w-link.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:54:10 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:02:21 +1300, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>Now on to GURPS:Traveller. This is *not* Traveller, this is GURPS Space set
>in the Third Imperium. It is GURPS and GURPS is simply not Traveller, it just
>doesn't 'feel' the same. GURPS Space feels too much like Star Wars, Battlestar
>Galaticia, Star Trek etc. for my tastes.

Well, it depends on how you run it.  GURPS is very adaptable
in it's feel.  I have been running a GURPS Traveller campaign
that does indeed keep the Traveller feel.  I've been in GURPS
campaigns with Neuromancer grittiness to Star Wars cinematics.

Now this isn't to say that those of you who prefer T4 should
switch.  And I think this talk of IG demise is grossly premature.
I just wanted to give GURPS it's due.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:22:36 -0600
From: Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Maps for Covenant of Sufren

At 05:57 AM 12/14/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Could someone tell me where on the net, or what old product I should look
>for to get some subsectors maps for the area in and around Covenant of
>Sufren?
>
>Sorry about the boring question,
>Steinar Knutsen, stud.scient., SP4, PSA
>
>
>

The Covenant of Sufren Subsector map is in the "Lady Elise" adventure that
came with the TNE Referees Screen.  It has a subsector map subsector
worldlisting with uwp info for TNE and  a half a page write up on the
covenant.


Alex Rebsch

- -------------------------------------------------
| grazzit@flash.net    <------ Preffered Method |
| Alex.Rebsch@wang.com <------ Last Resort      |
- -------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:49:26 +1100
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re: Re : PMPP field-testing

>Which brings up a question.. how many of us are planning on being at GenCon
>98?  It'd be nice to be able to start arraigning get togethers and shared
>crash space now.

Well, as one of the lurking mob (and hence pretty much unknown), I'm hoping
to be able to go to GenCon in 1998 (along with my girfriend). Mind you, the
airfair from Australia is rather high, and since I now have a wedding to
think about (I just got engaged yesterday), other things are likely to be
taking up my available money. (Still, here's hoping =) ).

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:17:33
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2156

At 08:27
>From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)

>>Marines will also abandon the Fusion Gun for their new role as artillery
>>spotters. Forget Combat Rifleman or FGMP skill - Forward Observer will be
>>standard for Marines.
>
>No, what will happen is TL 15 Imperial Marines will have man-portable
>meson guns more powerful than the one above! When every Marine has a
>sure killer like this weapon, everyone of them will have two skills;
>Forward Observer and Heavy Weapons. No need for anything else other
>than a short range personal weapon for when the enemy is within meson
>gun lethal range from some other Marine.

The Solution isnt what even I'd call man portable ... it's a light
artillery piece, rather than even a squad-support weapon.

The next issue is what sort of meson screen could you build at TL15, given
a say 50 kg weight range ... I suspect you could build a screen that would
protect a fire-team fairly well, with either TL15 batteries or fusion plus.

The Solution is really optimised for blowing absolute crap out of pre-Meson
Screen militaries - they just dont have a defense against it.

>
>Or you could just withdraw out of range and call in the meson strike
>from every other member of the squad....

Cousin Ditzie has a man-portable meson gun as one of her ahhhh special
progects. I suspect it wont have a meaningful burst radius. My take on FFS2
is that Meson Guns will get about 3 times as efficient between TL12 and
TL15 - which puts the Solution still as not a man-portable weapon.

My feeling is that TL15 Imperial Marines would use small PAWs. Again, I
havent built one at TL15. If Famile Spofulam is still around circa 1100, I
suspect that we will be building man-portable damper boxes, so Marines can
fire 12mm Californium collapsing rounds ...

>
>John Lansford
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 97 11:03:01 +0000
From: David Scott <Snail@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Azhanti High Lightning observation..

>
>Who/what are the Azhanti/Fiorin/Acheron/Illurian/Luriani?
>
>Does anyone know any canon (or non-canon, for that matter) information
>about these?

These look like slightly different spellings or derivations of:

Ashanti also spelled ASANTE, West African state that occupied what is =
now southern Ghana in the 18th and 19th centuries. Extending from the =
Komo=E9 River in the west to the Togo Mountains in the east, the =
Ashanti empire was active in the slave trade in
the 18th century and unsuccessfully resisted British penetration in =
the 19th.

Fiorin is a type of grass called creeping bent (Agrostis stolonifera =
var. palustris). I think there must be a cultural reference but the =
spelling like the others has been changed.

Acheron is a river in Thesprot=EDa in Epirus, Greece, that was =
thought in ancient times to go to Hades because it flowed through =
dark gorges and went underground in several places; an oracle of the =
dead was located on its bank. In Greek mythology it is a river in =
Hades, and the name sometimes refers to the lower world generally. =
Several other rivers in Greece are also called Acheron, which =
traditionally means River of Woe.

Illyria, northwestern part of the Balkan Peninsula, inhabited from =
about the 10th century BC onward by the Illyrians, an Indo-European =
people. At the height of their power the Illyrian frontiers extended =
from the Danube River southward to the Adriatic Sea and from there =
eastward to the Sar Mountains.

The Luriani were a group of Jewish people working within the Lurianic =
Kabbala tradition. 

David

mailto:Snail@dircon.co.uk
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~snail/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:13:15 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

At 06:14 1997-12-13 PST, you wrote:
>No, no. Calvin is *obviously* a member of Famile Spofulam's junior
>design team. He'd fit in *perfectly*. Hobbes is an Aslan assigned to
>"supervise" the team.

Hobbes is probably supposed to pound the members of the team to their
senses when they go too far.

><next: Garfield and Odie interpreted as an Aslan/Vargr pairing. Nermal
>is a female Aslan. Question for discussion: which human race is
>Garfield's "owner"[1]?>

John Arbuckle.


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:35:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>I won't ask what you were doing with an old dildo harness. :-)
>
> Assiduously gathering dust.

I meant "How was it that you were in *possesion* of an old dildo
harness?" 

>>Two reasons.
>>
>>1. The phallic symbology of a weapon projecting from the crotch is just
>>   *too* much.
>
> That's not a _problem_, dude, that's that's a major selling point...

Not for government bureaucrats. And weapons in that size/power range
have to be sellable to *goverments* to make money.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:13:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

In mail you write:

> Actually, reactionless drives have been *implied* from the very 
> beginning, since there was no mention in the early travel formulae of 
> keeping track of reaction mass.

Actually, there's a statement in the "little black books" about
tracking reaction mass. It said that if you wanted to worry about
manuever fuel, assume there was enough for a week? Month? of use (I
don't have the book here, but I read it as "enough to run at normal
acceleration for a month".

Working from the fuel and acceleration figures for either a Scout or a
Free Trader, I got an Isp that was in about the right range for a
fusion drive.

> If there were no reactionless drives, then we would have to keep track of 
> some kind of fuel, and constant accel/decel (see early tables and 
> formulae) would be impossible.

With an Isp in the hundreds of thousands, the type of fusion drive I
was thinking of *would* alllow those sorts of things. With a drive like
that, you get a thrust equal to that of the Saturn V from about ten
*kilograms* of fuel per second. 

For the much lower thrust requirements of a Scout or Free Trader, you
need a lot less.

Let's see....

Assume a 600 ton *mass* ship, at 1 g. It needs 600 tons of thrust
(~6000 newtons). Which means it uses about a *kilo* of fuel every
second. The old chart I got my fusion drive figures from had a Isp of
600,000 listed. Folks on the list have come up with different (and
probably more accurate) figures, but back in the 70s all I had was that
old NASA chart from a HS science class.

True, assuming 100 tons of fuel, the ship can only run the drive for a
bit more than a day. But that's enough to go a *long* way.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:29:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: macro viruses, VM viruses

In mail you write:

> On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In such a system you can load anything you want into the data stream
>> and it won't corrupt the code. The code is effectively "in ROM" at all
>> times. The system just gets to switch between the ROMs. But the code
>> and data are kept seperate at the *register* level. It's not possible
>> to load an opcode register from the data store or to load an operand
>> register from the code store.
>
> The system will be vulnerable at whatever point in time and space the code
> store gets loaded.  The problem with current systems is that there are too
> many points at which the code store can be loaded, because the code store
> is the same logical object as the data store (segments are arbitrary and
> defined at runtime, after code is loaded).
>
> Once the two are separated, there will be a whole volume of OS design
> problems that have to be addresed:  Who decides when the code store can be
> written?  When is the decision made?  Does the user always get notified,
> with the option of canceling the write?  What will be done to facilitate
> installation software (will the user have to approve *each* write, or can
> he/she approve a related group of writes, and when does approval expire)?
> That last one is the killer; there is a huge price tag attached. 
>
> Clearly, all code loaded into a machine must first reside in the data
> store (be it primary or secondary), since a program's code will be
> distributed together with its data, and the same distribution media
> (network, disk) will probably be used for both.  Likewise, newly written
> software will reside in the data store.  Hence, there must be some kind of
> data pathway that goes between the data store and the code store.  While
> we can take every precaution that the software controlling this path is
> non-hostile, we will always have a certain vulnerability here.  There is
> always the possibility that the user will let a hostile program into the
> system unintentionally (either through implicit or explicit approval, and
> the implicit approval is where the real threat comes from, which is why
> those OS questions are so important). 

Well, *especially* if this is the sort of system you are using, program
*code* has no reason to be distributed on writeable media. Use ROM
packs for the code. And steal an idea from OS-9 and require all code to
be both relocatable and re-entrant (actually, the very *design* of such
a cpu pretty much ensures re-entrant code). 

This even has the advantage that program loads will be faster!

>> But it continues because they have advantages in
>> applications where you *can't* have "viruses" and the like happen. They
>> are also apparently of some theoretical interest. 
>
> Never let a Vampire into your house.  8-)  A hostile program can always
> attack your system once it's running in the CPU.

Translation: Don't buy Microsoft software... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2157
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 14 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2158



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Covenant? of Sufren
Re: Disruptors: real weapons?
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Journal Death
Can of worms....
Re:_Travelling Aliens_: The Movie
GURPS: Trav, JTAS
GURPS: Trav, JTAS
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Can of worms....
Re: near-c rock fix proposal
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2157
Re: Technological conservatism
Re: Journal Death
Re: near-c rock fix proposal

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:44:51 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Covenant? of Sufren

Steinar Knutsen wrote

>Could someone tell me where on the net, or what old product I should look
>for to get some subsectors maps for the area in and around Covenant of
>Sufren?
>
>Sorry about the boring question,
>Steinar Knutsen, stud.scient., SP4, PSA

Hiya, Steinar

Don't know about 'Covenant', but the Union of Sufren is detailed
in the (For Mega Traveller) Astrogator's Guide to the Diaspora 
Sector. (GDW 1992). It's ISBN is 1-55878-138-2
My guess is that this Covenant is something in the TNE setting,
but I could be wrong, as somebody is bound to mention!

Hope this of assistance.

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:04:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Disruptors: real weapons?

I thought that this might interest the list. :-)

[re-mailed to you from rec.arts.sf.science]
[the original seemed to come from kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu]

In article <66ndmq$8rs@snews1.zippo.com>,
Tommy the Terrorist  <mayday@super.zippo.com> wrote:
>>Besides, getting nine different weapons functions out of a laser calls
>>for _real_ creativity.

>Oh... this sounds like a CHALLENGE!

It does sound like a challenge!

Here's my attempt:

The laser in question is a handheld tunable free electron laser
(don't ask me where to get the power source!).

1. Target blinding mode--relatively low power, low or high spread.
2. "Flame thrower mode"--spread set to about target size, with
   the highest continuous power output available.  Used to burn/cook
   the target's surface and/or set it on fire.  Useful against
   flammable targets and targets which aren't fully armored or not
   fully behind cover, but difficult to employ against moving
   targets.

   (My favorite mode.)

3. "Bullet mode"--spread set to about 1mm at target distance.  Lase
   a series of pulses designed to penetrate at the target point
   by vaporizing a layer at a time.  (A continuous beam would simply
   waste energy since the vaporized layer will continue to absorb
   light until it's dispersed.)

   Due to diffraction limits, this mode will have a limited range,
   but it has ability to penetrate armor.

   (A favorite of John Shilling.)

4. "Pulse mode"--spread set to maximum size which the laser can
   still vaporize with.  Lase pulses at maximum peak power to
   vaporize the surface layer of the target, relying on explosive
   force to damage the target.  This mode may be useful against
   unarmored targets.

5. "Shaped Pulse mode"--like pulse mode, but the pulse is shaped
   by optics into something other than a solid circle.  A long
   rectangle or ring shape may be useful for cutting slices in
   a wall (e.g. to cut open a door, or a smaller openning suitable
   for firing through or lobbing a grenade through).

6. "Soldering iron mode"--spread set to minimum.  Lase at maximum
   continuous power, using fire control to dwell on a single point.
   This will heat up the target at that concentrated point,
   causing it to reach failure point (which will result in a puncture
   if it's the wall of a pressure tank) and eventually melting it.
   This mode requires the target point to remain in view more or
   less continuously and fire control sophisticated enough to keep
   the laser on the same spot.  This mode may be useful against
   liquid fuel missiles and some aircraft.

7. "Hot knife mode"--same as "soldering iron mode", except that the
   target spot is a line segment which the laser sweeps back and
   forth across.  This takes longer, but may be useful against
   solid fuel missiles.

8. "Short range mode"--any of the above, but with a wavelength
   absorbed by the atmosphere.

9. "Microwave mode"--a continuous beam with a wavelength optimized
   for cooking the target.  Due to diffraction limits, this will
   spread greatly and thus have limited range.

....and I'm sure there's plenty more!

Lasers are remarkably flexible in what ways they might damage a
target.


[Tommy's list included...]
>3) Infrared laser, low intensity - use to mark out targets "invisibly",
>4) X-ray laser - use on photographers to ruin their film, or more
>generally, to sweep scan through buildings and vehicles so that an
>observer holding up a detecting sheet on the far side can determine
>what's in them.
>7) Comm laser - secure communications with all your buddies, at least
>within line of sight or line of mirror.
>8) Variable frequency visible laser - use for spectroscopic analysis of
>chemical and biological clouds, or just to skywrite nasty messages about
>how the hero is going to die.

These aren't "weapons functions"...

>9) Laser pointer:  this 5-milliwatt ruby laser doesn't measure up to the
>others, but impresses all hell out of the brass when you first turn it on
>at the conference.

....although this arguably is, assuming you use it to intimidate
particularly gullible officers with threats of blinding them.
- -- 
    _____     Isaac Kuo kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu http://www.csc.lsu.edu/~kuo
 __|_)o(_|__
/___________\ "Mari-san...  Yokatta...
\=\)-----(/=/  ...Yokatta go-buji de..." - Karigari Hiroshi
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 06:44:01 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
> 
>
> 
> Hobbes is probably supposed to pound the members of the team to their
> senses when they go too far.
> 
> 

I always thought 'Hobbes' was that traitorous Kilrathi noble???

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:09:03 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Journal Death

      The Journal is not dead, but has been suspended for an indefinite
period....At this point.


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:42:55 -0800
From: Giovanni <giovanni@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Can of worms....

I discovered something yesterday that may have some verry disturbing
implications for the trav universe.  I really hope one of the gearheads
on the list can refine my numbers (and even prove this wrong).  The
subject is targeting.  From some quick numbers I ran up, hitting
something "out there" should be nearly impossible.  If a weapon is
expected to be able to hit something in space, and it is willing to
settle for a 10 meter group at 1 light second, it has to be ble to
produce a 1 inch group at a few thoulsand miles.  These numbers also
assume a perfectly stable fireing platform, take no consideration of
projectle drift (even laser light and PAW fire bends subject to gravity)
and an unmoving target.  These numbers also do not give any
consideration to the ability to target a particular 10x10 meter area at
1 light second or the time it takes that rojectle to it's target.  All
things considered, even laser and PAW (heck even meson) fire shouldn't
be able to hit a thing at 10 trav hexes.  If this is true all unguided
projectles, such as mass driver and plasma/fusion gun rounds, should be
completely useless for any space combat purposes other than planetary
bombardment or rabid fire point defese, under 1 trav hex.  Lasers and
spinal mounts may have also just been relegated to much closer range
bands than any of us want.

Can someone think of any reason why this argument isn't true (other than
because we say it is, or we don't want it, or some simmilar handwave and
without startng a flame war).

Testing my theory: Standing out in the open (phalax grid on to protect
from guided virus infected near C rocks)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:11:34 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re:_Travelling Aliens_: The Movie

[Having crashed the TML in memory of Pearl Harbor, I'm now a bit tardy in
commemorating the Rape of Nanjing, but I'm resending the virus anyway.
POOF!  You're all hamsters.]

GUARANTEED 100% spoiler free or NO MONEY BACK!

Harold Hale wrote:

>Kenji Schwarz writes:
>
>>I just saw _Alien: Ressurection_ -- or actually only the last 2/3 of it,
>>since the Office of Calendar Compliance has not extended authority over my
>>skull yet, and I got sorta confused about this whole daylight savings time
>>thing.  But never mind that.
>
>   Hard to review a movie that you only saw 2/3rds of, <sarcasm on> but
>I'm glad that didn't deter you in anyway.  BTW, thanks for all the
>unmarked plot spoilers, I'm sure it will increase my enjoyment of the
>film. <sarcasm off>

Saw it again today, all the way through.  By blindly spouting random BS at
every opportunity, eventually you'll hit some target dead-on by sheer
accident.  I think that's what I accomplished in this case.  I got nothing
out of the first half hour or so that I hadn't already picked up from
previews or correctly filled in by rote.

I wrote in plot spoilers in my first post?  Wha -- ? oh.  Sarcasm.  Gotcha.

(Sorry.)

>   Actually in the US 12 year old boys aren't allowed to see this film
>without a parent or legal guardian.  Kinda hard to tailor a movie for an
>audience that legally can't see it without mom and/or dad sitting in the
>next seat, eh?

Oh, absolutely! :|

>   BTW, I'd like to get Wynona Ryder's white android spooge on my
>fingers any hour she's free...

Ooops, I suppose I should have used the name of the character rather than
the actress -- but somehow after 1 2/3 screenings, the character's name
still slipped right on by me.  She was _that_ impressive.

The semiotic density of that scene was so great, and so twisted, it seemed
totally... um, alien, to the rest of the film.

>   OK!  OK!  I know when I'm being hollered at by the TML mob!  I
>retract that last line...
>
>   So you say that Sigourney Weaver is really buffed and in leathers
>huh?  Well now I might just have to pay double the admission price...

Yeah, she looks older and wearier and totally hot^H^H^H much better.  A
long way from the panicky last-survivor-who-just-barely-gets-away-from-the-
slasher/monster/psycho (in virginal white underwear, of course) in the
original movie.

I first saw _Alien_ (#1) right around the same time I first played
Traveller; I guess it and the sequels occupy the same sort of spot in my
sci-fi constellations as I think the Star Wars films do for a lot of other
Traveller fans.  When I think of Traveller freighters, my immediate mental
picture is the Nostromo, not the Millenium Falcon.  And the themes of
"motherhood" that run through them all I personally find sorta -- engaging,
I guess would be the word for it.  My own take on the movies is that
they've more or less become worse each time, while the character Ellen
Ripley and/or Sigourney Weaver's performance has more or less got better
each time.  For whatever _that's_ worth.

Probably this is a good one to rent on video, though; I'm not sure it's
worth paying the premium for seeing it on the big screen.  Maybe I'm just
jaded, so soon after seeing _Gattaca_ and _Starship Troopers_.  Regardless
of how stupid their contents, Verhoeven has a good eye for spectacle.
Aliens #4 didn't particularly impress me on the visual side of things.

>>  And I was the ONLY PERSON in the WHOLE GODDAMN
>>THEATER who was laughing my sick and filthy little mind off.  How could
>>anyone in their right mind NOT giggle like a loon?
>
>   Apparently the film held your attention long enough for you not to
>notice if anyone else was laughing.  That's one clue.

Well, no; both times I made a point of looking and listening around to see
if anyone else was laughing, but there was a sort of respectful or bored
silence.  (The scene _was_ set in the chapel, after all.)  I did get
frostily stared at by some uppity cordite-'n-gore puritan across the aisle,
though.  The teenagers around me (illegally unchaperoned, I now realize)
cheered and tittered only at the gunfire and gelatin/entrail hose-downs.
It was a mite disturbing, actually.  Their apparent desire to meet aliens
in order to bust open a great big can of amplified whup-ass on their
inferior extraterrestrial skulls is what led me to write what I did, below.

>>Where oh where is this civilization headed in the next century?  Where
>>else but BARNARD'S STAR, TO KICK SOME VILANI BUTT!  HOO-HAAH!
>
>   Film does not create civilization, it holds a mirror up to it.  Watch
>the *whole* movie, and think about it in that context.  It's apparent
>that you missed the point.

Watched the *whole* movie, am thinking about it as you suggest, and still
miss The Point.  Can I have a hint?

BTW, I've reconsidered the screenplay for _Jones's and THWAP!'s Awfully Big
Adventure_.  How about a Traveller PBEM game instead?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com
TravLang: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:54:37 -0600
From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: GURPS: Trav, JTAS

At 8:27 pm -0500 12/13/97, various folk wrote:

>I like to think IG is worth saving, only because without them, then eventually
>I'll have to deal with GURPs Trav.  I just won't have the time to convert the
>new source material to the old style.  I hardly have time to keep getting a
>new scenario every week for my players, and I'm not as busy as I will be in
>the near future.

<snip>

>The other reason to save IG is that I genuinely like T4.  I thought I wouldn't
>at the beginning, but it is an amazingly simple and intuitive system (half-
>dice and all :).  I don't, however, like GURPs.  I think the system is clunky
>and slows down the game (granted, alot has to do with the fact that I'm not
>familiar with it) and combat is time-consuming.

<snip>

>Now on to GURPS:Traveller. This is *not* Traveller, this is GURPS Space set
>in the Third Imperium. It is GURPS and GURPS is simply not Traveller, it just
>doesn't 'feel' the same. GURPS Space feels too much like Star Wars, Battlestar
>Galaticia, Star Trek etc. for my tastes. Now to me this doesn't matter; I
>have more than enough Traveller material in it's various incarnations to keep
>playing in my little non-Canon universe until the crack of doom. But I will
>be very sad to see the demise of Traveller. Now in my wildest fantasies if IG
>goes belly up I'd like to see Marc Millar giving the TML, HWIG, ISBA et al an
>open non-profit licence to continue Traveller; BUT I think that will happen
>when I see the flocks of Pigs migrating north past my window! Hold no
>illusions, if IG goes under, with GURPS:Traveller, no other publisher will
>pick it up; the Third Imperium will continue, but Traveller will be dead.

I've never believed TRAVELLER is a set of mechanics. While the "feels"
between CT and MT changed significantly, I coulc still live with it. T:TNE,
on the other hand, completely turned the "flavor" of the game around.
That's when I realized that the mechanics don't make the system - the
setting does. Between T:TNE and T4, I played some GURPS: Traveller. In
fact, GURPS has been my third-most played system (after TRAVELLER (various
incarnations) and CALL OF CTHULHU).

I'd advide people to give GURPS a chance, should it ever come to that. I've
always loved the system, and the combat runs smoothly once you're used to
it. In fact, I always thought GURPS: Space was incredibly influenced by
TRAVELLER, so while I've always heard of people using GURPS to play
TRAVELLER, it never struck me as odd.

Also, Steve Jackson Games produces some amazing supplements. Their errata
rate is far less than GDWs, and unbelievably less than IGs. There's a lot
of great things about the company. But -- in short -- if people can live
through a transition from CT mechanics to TNE mechanics, the GURPS system
will be a breeze.

Of course, people's tastes differ. I've never seen a system so horrible
that I would flee screaming from it. But I'm a big fan of GURPS and GURPS:
Space, and I'm somewhat surprised that some people find it so malodorous
that it would herald the end of life as we know it.

<snip>

>   Perhaps Loren or Marc could correct me if I'm wrong, but sourcebooks
>seem to me to be much less labor intensive (assuming you use freelance
>writers) and therefore have a much higher profit margins than journals.
>This would be particularly true if you can get your authors to work for
>free and send you "ready for the printer" or minimal prep material (in
>an electronic format ready to be "cut and pasted" into a document).  It
>could be that Sweetpea is just trying to maximize its return on
>Traveller and eliminating JTAS was one way to do that.

Well, if this is taken as a sign of IG's demise, I'd dismiss it, unless
anyone has any other evidence. Magazines are nearly as hard to put out as
supplements, and take a lot of resources for (relatively) little profit. It
makes business sense, if you're stretched (and how many companies aren't,
these days) to pull back on the magazine.  It's a shame, a great shame, but
it's not the end of the world. A lot of companies I've worked for have
complained about the amount of resources magazines take away from other
projects.

John K.


**************************************************
       "This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
                                              - Arthur Dent
**************************************************
                                       "Wild Life": a Web comic -
        at MUSKRAT CENTRAL: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/muskrat/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:54:37 -0600
From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: GURPS: Trav, JTAS

At 8:27 pm -0500 12/13/97, various folk wrote:

>I like to think IG is worth saving, only because without them, then eventually
>I'll have to deal with GURPs Trav.  I just won't have the time to convert the
>new source material to the old style.  I hardly have time to keep getting a
>new scenario every week for my players, and I'm not as busy as I will be in
>the near future.

<snip>

>The other reason to save IG is that I genuinely like T4.  I thought I wouldn't
>at the beginning, but it is an amazingly simple and intuitive system (half-
>dice and all :).  I don't, however, like GURPs.  I think the system is clunky
>and slows down the game (granted, alot has to do with the fact that I'm not
>familiar with it) and combat is time-consuming.

<snip>

>Now on to GURPS:Traveller. This is *not* Traveller, this is GURPS Space set
>in the Third Imperium. It is GURPS and GURPS is simply not Traveller, it just
>doesn't 'feel' the same. GURPS Space feels too much like Star Wars, Battlestar
>Galaticia, Star Trek etc. for my tastes. Now to me this doesn't matter; I
>have more than enough Traveller material in it's various incarnations to keep
>playing in my little non-Canon universe until the crack of doom. But I will
>be very sad to see the demise of Traveller. Now in my wildest fantasies if IG
>goes belly up I'd like to see Marc Millar giving the TML, HWIG, ISBA et al an
>open non-profit licence to continue Traveller; BUT I think that will happen
>when I see the flocks of Pigs migrating north past my window! Hold no
>illusions, if IG goes under, with GURPS:Traveller, no other publisher will
>pick it up; the Third Imperium will continue, but Traveller will be dead.

I've never believed TRAVELLER is a set of mechanics. While the "feels"
between CT and MT changed significantly, I coulc still live with it. T:TNE,
on the other hand, completely turned the "flavor" of the game around.
That's when I realized that the mechanics don't make the system - the
setting does. Between T:TNE and T4, I played some GURPS: Traveller. In
fact, GURPS has been my third-most played system (after TRAVELLER (various
incarnations) and CALL OF CTHULHU).

I'd advide people to give GURPS a chance, should it ever come to that. I've
always loved the system, and the combat runs smoothly once you're used to
it. In fact, I always thought GURPS: Space was incredibly influenced by
TRAVELLER, so while I've always heard of people using GURPS to play
TRAVELLER, it never struck me as odd.

Also, Steve Jackson Games produces some amazing supplements. Their errata
rate is far less than GDWs, and unbelievably less than IGs. There's a lot
of great things about the company. But -- in short -- if people can live
through a transition from CT mechanics to TNE mechanics, the GURPS system
will be a breeze.

Of course, people's tastes differ. I've never seen a system so horrible
that I would flee screaming from it. But I'm a big fan of GURPS and GURPS:
Space, and I'm somewhat surprised that some people find it so malodorous
that it would herald the end of life as we know it.

<snip>

>   Perhaps Loren or Marc could correct me if I'm wrong, but sourcebooks
>seem to me to be much less labor intensive (assuming you use freelance
>writers) and therefore have a much higher profit margins than journals.
>This would be particularly true if you can get your authors to work for
>free and send you "ready for the printer" or minimal prep material (in
>an electronic format ready to be "cut and pasted" into a document).  It
>could be that Sweetpea is just trying to maximize its return on
>Traveller and eliminating JTAS was one way to do that.

Well, if this is taken as a sign of IG's demise, I'd dismiss it, unless
anyone has any other evidence. Magazines are nearly as hard to put out as
supplements, and take a lot of resources for (relatively) little profit. It
makes business sense, if you're stretched (and how many companies aren't,
these days) to pull back on the magazine.  It's a shame, a great shame, but
it's not the end of the world. A lot of companies I've worked for have
complained about the amount of resources magazines take away from other
projects.

John K.


**************************************************
       "This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
                                              - Arthur Dent
**************************************************
                                       "Wild Life": a Web comic -
        at MUSKRAT CENTRAL: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/muskrat/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:26:22 -0600
From: Mike Marchi <mjm@42north.org>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Some list of Traveller aliens I got off the web (don't have reference or
> document now, sorry) named a minor species in Aslan space called something
> like the Huosua, which it described as nasty and xenophobic and "a
> possibility for Aliens".  I don't remember what reference to published
> description it gave.  Anyone else know anything about this?

Hi.  I popped in the middle of this discussion, so forgive me if somebody
already mentioned this.

The old JTAS (Issue #4) contained an article in "The Bestiary" section
describing a creature called a "Reticulan Parasite".  The article was written by
Chuck Kallenback III, and based off all available Alien information of the
time.  Interestingly, since the article was written before "Aliens" came out,
the life-cycle of the Alien was described a little differently.  It did not
involve a Queen egg-layer at all.  Instead it said that an Adult alien killed to
gain two hours of life-force from its victims.  When it ran out of victims, the
Alien went dormant and the body began producing larvae which crawled away from
the body at specific intervals and grew into a nest of eggs.

Based on the life cycle, this describes a creature that exists only to kill.  It
kills until there is nothing left, then it reproduces to wait and kill again.
Try to imagine a world where such a creature could evolve.  First of all, you
couldn't explain it away as a random mutation.  There is no way an Alien could
mutate from a humanoid or even a large insect race in just one step.  Evolution
implies steps, where mutations arise and become a more desirable feature.  Which
feature or features of the alien are the mutation from the evolutionary
neighbor?  The acid for blood?  One would hope so.  How would you like to get
caught on a planet where every lifeform had molecular acid pumping through its
veins!  How would they feed off each other?

Ah! But Chuck's creature reproduces asexually.  Perhaps the species is adaptive
or prone to mutation.  Maybe it gains something from each of its victims, and
adjusts the next generation to survive better.  In this case the alien that
Helen Ripley originally faced could have been a species torn from its homeworld
many generations ago.  And it had evolved in its unique manner to be a predator
parasite on spacecraft.  You must admit that acid-blood is a much greater
deterrent on a spacecraft than planetside.

And then the sequel came.  Starting with "Aliens", the species got a mother.
Not only did the queen lay eggs, but also cared about her offspring.  The alien
drones (warriors?) protected the nest, and didn't kill, but captured victims to
perpetuate the race.  The creatures also showed more intelligence, they had the
ability to NOT attack when the situation warranted a strategic withdrawal.
While it is still plausible that this is a genetically engineered lifeform, the
motivation of the species has definitely shifted.  Killing is for the good of
the whole, rather than the gain of the individual.  It could still be argued
that the race reproduces asexually since we've never seen anything that
impregnates the queen.  But this incarnation is less mobile.  They are tied to
the nest, and the queen.  In my opinon, that makes it a less efficient weapon.

So what is the answer?  Bio-weapon or evolutionary marvel?  Certainly the single
alien who kills and goes to larval - egg growing incarnation is more likely to
be a bio-weapon than the queen based version.  The lone alien is just an
efficient killing machine. Anyone who designed the hive alien for use as a
weapon must have been insane, especially since the queen obviously has the
ability to produce more queens.  The species is intelligent and adaptive and
vicious and let's face it: isn't likely to stay put wherever you deploy it.

What goes around, comes around!

- --
Mike Marchi

*   My WebPage:  http://www.42north.org/~mjm/roleplay/Traveller.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:36:19 +0000
From: twolf@unix.tfs.net
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

> 1 light second or the time it takes that rojectle to it's target.  All
> things considered, even laser and PAW (heck even meson) fire shouldn't
> be able to hit a thing at 10 trav hexes.  If this is true all unguided
> projectles, such as mass driver and plasma/fusion gun rounds, should be
> completely useless for any space combat purposes other than planetary
> bombardment or rabid fire point defese, under 1 trav hex.  Lasers and
> spinal mounts may have also just been relegated to much closer range
> bands than any of us want.
> 
This has always bothered me too.  I thought that it made space combat 
very unrealistic for me, but I grew up with Startrek, Battlestar 
Galactica, and Star Wars.  I for one, wouldn't mind the ranges being 
reduced when or if someone ever gets around to writing some good 
space combat rules.

JD
Twolf
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:04:07 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: near-c rock fix proposal

Rob wrote
>> Actually, to conserve energy you need to make the power requirements
>> a function of velocity, and then you get into the "velocity relative
>> to what?" question, and get (as you note) very high power requirements for
>> even moderate drive velocities.

>   Nope.  The power requirements are a function of reaction mass and
>   thrust, not velocity.  The velocity-relative-to-what issue has come up
>   several times on this list, and is usually a red-herring.

If you read the thread carefully, we were talking about thruster plates,
which have no reaction mass. Hence to conserve energy properly their
energy requirement has to go up with velocity (and to conserve momentum
you have to be dumping momentum into some object - like a nearby star),
which you can measure your velocity relative to.

>[basic rocket equations snipped]
These I know - but they're for reaction drives, not reactionless.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:58:44 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2157

> >Now on to GURPS:Traveller. This is *not* Traveller, this is GURPS Space
set
> >in the Third Imperium.

And this is a bad thing?

What exactly is Traveller anyway? is it a particular set of game mechanics?
Or is Traveller the fictional setting? This answer will vary by person. if
you had said "This is not Traveller TO ME", then I could accept your point.
But I am not attatched to the game mechanics. I hate randomly generated
characters, and AS A SYSTEM, I prefer GURPS hands down. Except for the
shipbuilding rules, but that's another issue.
	Not too long ago, using a hodge-podge of GURPS Traveller material found on
the Net, including the very excellent material written by David Summers, I
converted and ran the old Traveller module SIGNAL GK. This was highly
enjoyed by all concerned, and even those in my group who like T4 said that
it "felt" like Traveller. What they meant, of course, was that the
background was right, the characters were believable in the context of the
game world, and things worked more or less like they were supposed to. They
liked it. They want me to run another one. It was just as much Traveller to
them as anything else I've run.
	If mechanics define Traveller, rather than game setting, then I'm going to
try using Traveller mechanics to run Star Trek. Will that then be
Traveller? I don't think so :) And, of course, you run into the problem
that Traveller is on it's fourth set of mechanics....
	I prefer to think of Traveller as the fictional setting. YMMV.

Allen Shock
  
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:44:54 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism

Glenn Hope writes:
>Actually, reactionless drives have been *implied* from the very 
>beginning, since there was no mention in the early travel formulae of 
>keeping track of reaction mass.
>
>If there were no reactionless drives, then we would have to keep track of 
>some kind of fuel, and constant accel/decel (see early tables and 
>formulae) would be impossible.
>
- -----

The original rules ignored fuel, and even the nature of a drive. 
(Although Newton's Laws _were_ clearly kept.)  

First edition High Guard clearly stated that drives were fusion rockets
which could be used as weapons by fighters (usually more dangerous than
the fighters' lasers!), but fuel usage was still mainly ignored.  (I
remember that the power plant powered the maneuver drive, and I vaguely
remember a reference to "normal usage".  I just assumed that the fuel
needed for reaction mass was insignificant - I knew little physics in
those days.)  

MegaTraveller introduced the concept of reactionless thrusters, with a
decent handwaving explanation.  See Starship Operators Manual for more
details.

So you see, there is canonical support for either viewpoint.  I've always
liked the rocket idea myself, which is why I like HEPLar, but I played
MegaTraveller with thrusters for years.  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 97 20:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Journal Death

In-Reply-To: <1ad0af51.3493f691@aol.com>

Kagehira,

> The Journal is not dead, but has been suspended for an indefinite
> period....At this point.

Pining for the fjords?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:17:13 -0500
From: Robert Flammang <flammang@npl2.phyast.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: near-c rock fix proposal

>
   Hi.
   
> From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
   
> If you read the thread carefully, we were talking about thruster plates,
> which have no reaction mass. Hence to conserve energy properly their
> energy requirement has to go up with velocity (and to conserve momentum
> you have to be dumping momentum into some object - like a nearby star),
> which you can measure your velocity relative to.
   
   I am aware that we are talking about thruster plates, and that they
   have no reaction mass.  I may have forgotten to point out in my posts
   that the equations can apply to reactionless drives; you need only set
   `r' to zero.  When you do that, you get a constant acceleration for
   a constant power input, exactly what the rules require.  Thus you do not
   /need/ to have a velocity-dependent power requirement to conserve energy.
   
>>[basic rocket equations snipped]
> These I know - but they're for reaction drives, not reactionless.
   
   They can apply to reactionless drives when r=0.
   
   -Rob
   
   
   
   

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2158
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, December 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2159



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications
Umm, Loren Wiseman?
Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
Re: Azhanti High Lightning observation...
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
re: thruster conservation of energy (was near-C rocks.)
re: Can of Worms (hitting things in space)
Re:_Travelling Aliens_: The Movie
Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
Re: Journal Death
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: Technological conservatism.
Re: Complete stats for Kirur system
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:56:22 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

David P. Summers wrote:

> Well, it depends on how you run it.  GURPS is very adaptable
> in it's feel.  I have been running a GURPS Traveller campaign
> that does indeed keep the Traveller feel.  I've been in GURPS
> campaigns with Neuromancer grittiness to Star Wars cinematics.

 I have to concur all the Gurps:Space:Traveller games have had
the same feel as my CT, MT, and TNE games. I believe it is the
setting and not the rules that makes a game.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:39:27 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>I meant "How was it that you were in *possesion* of an old dildo
>harness?"

It was planted, Your Honor!  The f*cking pigs planted it on me, I swear!  I
ain't never seen the thing before in my life!  I was set up!

Short serious answer:  it's occasionally entertaining to have a phallus,
even if it ain't no PMPP.  Yet.

When's GenCon again?  Or this Arisia thing?  I ain't never been 86'ed from
a sci-fi convention before...

>>>Two reasons.
>>>
>>>1. The phallic symbology of a weapon projecting from the crotch is just
>>>   *too* much.
>>
>> That's not a _problem_, dude, that's that's a major selling point...
>
>Not for government bureaucrats. And weapons in that size/power range
>have to be sellable to *goverments* to make money.

Ah, yes.  Um.  Point.  There are only so many wealthy gun nuts out there
who also happen to have a sense of humor...  Besides Famille Spofulam, of
course.


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:39:21 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

Richard Hough wrote:

>>> This is definitely a feasible technology for even fairly high-recoil
>>> weapons, and, I suspect, even for use by bipeds with (grossly) external
>>> genitalia.  Why the hell hasn't anyone worked on developing this before???
>>
[snip]
>3. Extra expense for harness, recoil compensation, etc. which is completely
>unnecessary in a conventional firearm.

Well, conventional firearms require holsters, cases and covers, and on
higher-end items, stocks, muzzle brakes (or wait, is it "breaks" or
"brakes"?)...

>4. Difficulty firing from a prone position.

Bah!  If you're prone, you've already lost! <beat chest> <ululate>

>5. Awkward to use with conventional jumpsuits, armor, chairs, crew
>stations, weapon mounts, firing ports, etc.

Yeah, definitely calls for loose floppy trenchcoats or codpieces, or both.
For the rest -- I don't see it being a particular problem.

>6. Much longer time to ready or stow compared to a convention firearm.

I have to disagree on this one... from what I've seen over the years, men
are able to get their bio-PMPPs out in a flash, given cause.  This one
should be even faster.  Uses TL-11 spring materials to pop erect,
infalliably, ripping clean through any intervening trouseroids.  Another
good reason for broadsword-brandishing Imperial Marines to wear kilts.

>7. Impractical to mount bayonets, flashlights, scopes, etc. on it.

The original design used the "melee weapon frame construction" option, so I
think it _is_ a bayonet.  Flashlight?   Heh.  That's gotta be the silliest
suggestion yet for the PMPP <G>.

>8. How the heck do ya AIM the thing?! Like a sharpshooter, I mean. Mirrors?

It has a range of 30 meters and probably has some sort of noteworthy blast
radius -- sharpshooting?  Now that's no fun.  Presumably one of those
little spotting laser, mounted coaxially allows for adequate aiming.  By
hand.  Wear gloves!  Presumably after plenty of experience you could aim
just with your hips; play a lot of pinball for practice.  I was thinking
that higher-tech versions would have some sort of targeting system linked
to the wearer's eyes; it automatically aims at whatever you're looking at.
Seems only appropriate, after all.


And Leonard Erickson wrote:

>I meant "How was it that you were in *possesion* of an old dildo
>harness?"

It was planted, Your Honor!  The f*cking pigs planted it on me, I swear!  I
ain't never seen the thing before in my life!  I was set up!

Short serious answer:  it's occasionally entertaining to have a phallus,
even if the PMPP isn't available.  Yet.

When's GenCon again?  Or this Arisia thing?  I ain't never been 86'ed from
a sci-fi convention before...

>>>Two reasons.
>>>
>>>1. The phallic symbology of a weapon projecting from the crotch is just
>>>   *too* much.
>>
>> That's not a _problem_, dude, that's that's a major selling point...
>
>Not for government bureaucrats. And weapons in that size/power range
>have to be sellable to *goverments* to make money.

Ah, yes.  Um.  Point.  There are only so many wealthy gun nuts out there
who also happen to have a sense of humor...  Besides Famille Spofulam, of
course.


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:03:16 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Journal Dies -- Possible implications

>Does anyone have a clue about layout on this list?  I would be more then happy
>to send in a sample of what I can do to Imperium Games.  I would welcome the
>chance to do something I would enjoy and get paid for it.
>
>Any artists floating around?  Again, I'd gladly submit a portfolio of what I
>can do to IG.


I do this for a living. I highly doubt that IG would be willing to pay
enough to make it worth the while, though. I say this not because I make
lots 'o money (I don't, less than $21k), but because I suspect that
production in the rpg publishing industry is less than, shall we say,
lucrative.

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:30:29 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Umm, Loren Wiseman?

I apologize to the list about this, but I do not have Mr. Wiseman's address
(and am not certain about whether he would like getting personal email or
not from a complete stranger). It is not specifically Traveller-oriented,
and probably will be of no interest to anyone else. This is from GURPSnet.

<begin forward>

>Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 05:31:18 -0500 (EST)
>From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
>Subject: GURPS WORLD BUILDER
>Reply-To: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
>
>After seeing that post about the legality of using game systems in a
>computer program, I realized that I will have to ask for permission to use
>the formulas from GDW's TRAVELLER WORLD TAMER'S HANDBOOK.  It allows one
>to create a base temperature for a world based on the axial tilt of the
>world, the distance from the world, along with temperature variations
>based on orbital eccentricity.
>Anyone know how I can reach Loren Wiseman or anyone else who would own
>the rights to TRAVELLER WORLD TAMER'S HANDBOOK that I might ask permission
>to use the formulas in a non-profit labor of love to be released if/when
>I finish it?
<snip, add second post recieved after I informed the original poster that I
might be able to help him contact Mr. Wiseman>
>If you would forward the request and let him know I do not intend to make money
>off it.  If anything, I would be more than happy to supply him with my
>program once I have it finished, since perhaps he might find a use for it
>with respect towards TRAVELLER 2300 AD.
>
>All I want to use, is the formulas for calculating baseline temperatures,
>along with longitudinal temperature increases.  Essentially put, just those
>involving axial tilt, orbital eccentricity, and albedo (TRAVELLER SCOUTS)
>along with possibly the greenhouse like effects.
>
>Respectfully,
>Hal Carmer

Joseph Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:25:53 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

>  I have to concur all the Gurps:Space:Traveller games have had
> the same feel as my CT, MT, and TNE games. I believe it is the
> setting and not the rules that makes a game.

We had this discussion on TravIRC one night a long time ago. We came 
to the conclusion that you could dump the rules and keep the setting 
and still have Traveller. And you could keep the rules and dump the 
setting and still have Traveller. But you can't dump *both* and still 
have Traveller. Pretty much everyone there agreed.

My apologies to The Heretic...

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:50:50 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Azhanti High Lightning observation...

>I was flipping through my old Supplement 5 today (I do that know and
>then...nostalgia(sp))
>
>I noticed the following ship names:
>  Azhanti High Lightning
>  Sylean High Lightning
>  Vilani High Lightning
>  Fiorin High Lightning
>  Geonee High Lightning
>  Acheron High Lightning
>  Suerrat High Lightning
>  Illurian High Lightning
>  Luriani High Lightning
>
>The ships seem to be named after races/cultures...I recognize Sylean,
>Vilani, Geonee and Suerrat. Which begs the question:
>
>Who/what are the Azhanti/Fiorin/Acheron/Illurian/Luriani?
>
>Does anyone know any canon (or non-canon, for that matter) information
>about these?

Here is my theory, didn't Supplement 5 come out before any knowledge of
these races/cultures?  Maybe, just maybe they are actually named after the
ships, not the ships after them.  Just a thought.

Then again it makes sense for the ships of this class to be named after
important planets in the Imperium.

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:42:29 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

Mike Marchi wrote:

[lots of interesting background stuff snipped]

>
>So what is the answer?  Bio-weapon or evolutionary marvel?  Certainly the
>single
>alien who kills and goes to larval - egg growing incarnation is more likely to
>be a bio-weapon than the queen based version.  The lone alien is just an
>efficient killing machine. Anyone who designed the hive alien for use as a
>weapon must have been insane, especially since the queen obviously has the
>ability to produce more queens.  The species is intelligent and adaptive and
>vicious and let's face it: isn't likely to stay put wherever you deploy it.
>
>What goes around, comes around!


	Assuming of course that you don't genetically engineer it to have
an instinctive inability to kill or eat you and your species...  Assuming
that you don't engineer an "off" switch of some sort in...

	I still think that the Aliens are just too perfectly tailored for
use against humans for evolutionary coincidence.  However, since this is
all very hypothetical here, we could argue this one till doomsday or Alien
5 (which given that the bioweapon hypothesis isn't terribly Hollywood,
probably wouldn't answer it for us).

	But actually, there's a lot that bugs me about the Aliens aside
from them being so perfectly tailored to humans; how does a chestburster go
from being a tiny little thing that fits into a human chest cavity without
impeding respiratory or cardiac functions to being an 8' tall clawed spiky
toothy horror?  Where is all this mass coming from?  Where does all the
biologically secreted resin that makes up the nest come from?  They've got
to eat in order to grow; they've got to eat in order to secrete.  There's a
lot of biomass that seemingly comes out of nowhere (unless they spend a lot
of time eating roaches :>).

	Yup... inquiring minds want to know :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:40:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Startrek Architect's Manual?

I've just acquired the Naval Architect's Manual (NAM).
I do like it (ignoring the "Wildest ride in the ship" and the
"gently yielding energy wall").
I always thought that traveller ships should be cramped internally,
but some rooms (such as the bridges and media centres) are so spacious
that you'd think the designers wanted to allow room for film cameras to
be manoeuvred around :-)
Similarly, the first thing I'd add to the briefing rooms and theatres
would be twice as many seats. The stateroom and mess hall designs look
a lot better.
The real confusion that I have is with the low berths. Where did the
concept of a separate recovery bed come from? The low berth area seems
to be too big. It should average 2 squares per berth since the bed size
implies a 1.5m square but the average is nearer 5 squares. Despite this,
the births are too close for anyone to actually get into.

Whilst browsing in my local Games Shop to find the NAM, I spotted a set
of BITS 101 books.

I didn't buy any 'cos I already have them but I hope it wasn't just a
one off (or someone selling their own copy).
- - --
  Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT for any of this, they only pay me:)
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 97 19:41:39 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

On 12/14/97 at 03:25 PM,  "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com> said:

>>  I have to concur all the Gurps:Space:Traveller games have had
>> the same feel as my CT, MT, and TNE games. I believe it is the
>> setting and not the rules that makes a game.

>We had this discussion on TravIRC one night a long time ago. We came  to
>the conclusion that you could dump the rules and keep the setting  and
>still have Traveller. And you could keep the rules and dump the  setting
>and still have Traveller. But you can't dump *both* and still  have
>Traveller. Pretty much everyone there agreed.

I wasn't there, now was I? ;->

I'd have probably agreed with you, though. The only thing is, we might
disagree on what constitutes "the setting."  

>My apologies to The Heretic...

Apology accepted! ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:56:18 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: thruster conservation of energy (was near-C rocks.)

(I would just like to mention that I regret invoking near-C rocks even
in jest...)

Rob writes
>  I am aware that we are talking about thruster plates, and that they
>   have no reaction mass.  I may have forgotten to point out in my posts
>   that the equations can apply to reactionless drives; you need only set
>   `r' to zero.  When you do that, you get a constant acceleration for
>   a constant power input, exactly what the rules require.  Thus you do not
>   /need/ to have a velocity-dependent power requirement to conserve energy.

I have misplaced your original post, so I'm not sure what the mistake in
your equations is, but it's pretty clear that if you have a reactionless
drive the power input needs to vary to conserve energy. Consider a ship
of mass M, velocity v(t), accelerating at acceleration A=dv/dt.
THe kinetic energy of the ship is 0.5*M*v(t)^2.
The rate of change of kinetic energy of the ship is d(0.5*M*v(t)^2)/dt,
which is M*v(t)*dv/dt = M*A*v(t).
To conserve energy, the power into the drive has to equal the rate
of change of kinetic energy; therefore the power in has to equal M*A*v(t)
and the power has to increase as the velocity increases. If you repost
your equations I'll try and figure out exactly what the problem is - maybe
a division-by-r in their derivation, or maybe it's a relativisitc thing (since
as r=>0 exhaust velocity approaches c.) (There is the case of a photon 
drive, in which case the reaction mass is massless in some sense (and you
never run out of it) but that's not the same as a reactionless drive like
a thruster plate - and it has terrible energy efficiency.) 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:09:24 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Can of Worms (hitting things in space)

Someone wrote
>hitting something "out there" should be nearly impossible.  If a weapon is
>expected to be able to hit something in space, and it is willing to
>settle for a 10 meter group at 1 light second, it has to be ble to
>produce a 1 inch group at a few thoulsand miles. 

(note that this might be a good thing to discuss on Trav-tech, so as not to
bore the roleplayers with heavy-duty technobabble. Consequently I'm only
going to give the quick outline.)

This turns out not to be incredibly hard, at least for lasers. 
The tricks are (a) don't aim the whole launch assembly precisely - aim it in
the right general direction and do fine aiming with a small mirror further
upstream; (b) since light doesn't care what direction it's going in,
have a sensor that looks along exactly the same mirror assembly as will launch
the laser, including the steering mirror; (c) pre-align the laser so it
goes exactly where the sensor is looking; and (d) close a control loop to
move the steering mirror to hold the target still on the center of the sensor.
Systems like this in use today - "fast tip/tilt systems" - can hold light
steady to tens of nanoradians (1 cm grouping at 1000 km, in your terms.)
(Those are systems on telescopes looking up, not laser weapons, but
the principle is the same.) This is how the Boeing/LockMart/TRW is going
to aim the laser on the YAL-1 - with all sorts of added complications due
to compensating atmospheric turbublence. They expect to be able to chose which
part of a scud-type missile to hit, at ranges of a few hundred km through the
atmosphere, to hit the fuel tanks - and they should be able to do it
*easily*. This is Laser Rule 1 - lasers don't miss. (Which is going to be 
an unpleasant surprise for fighter pilots if the YAL-1 really works.)


>These numbers also
>assume a perfectly stable fireing platform, take no consideration of
>projectle drift (even laser light and PAW fire bends subject to gravity)
>and an unmoving target.  These numbers also do not give any
>consideration to the ability to target a particular 10x10 meter area at
>1 light second 


This approach compoensates for any and all motion of the firing platform,
and even for gravitational bending of light (which isn't really a big
deal.) 

How you make this work for PAWs and MGs is less clear to me, but I'm sure
something analagous exists.

>or the time it takes that projectle to it's target.  All
>things considered, even laser and PAW (heck even meson) fire shouldn't
>be able to hit a thing at 10 trav hexes.

The only thing that prevents lasers from always hitting is the time it takes
the "projectile" to reach the target, as you say; the target gets a couple of
seconds to evade by randomly changing its velocity. There are interminable
discussions on trav-tech about the exact probabilities, but it generally
turns out that one light-sec isn't really that hard.

> If this is true all unguided
>projectles, such as mass driver and plasma/fusion gun rounds, should be
>completely useless for any space combat purposes other than planetary
>bombardment or rabid fire point defese, under 1 trav hex. 

This, on the other hand, is completely true - which is why fusion weapons
aren't used in space combat in TNE/T4.1 (much though we all miss them.) 
It's not so much the intrinsic accuracy as, again, the time the target has
to evade while the fusion bolt is on its way.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:33:46 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re:_Travelling Aliens_: The Movie

Kenji Schwarz writes:

>[Having crashed the TML in memory of Pearl Harbor, I'm now a bit tardy in
>commemorating the Rape of Nanjing, but I'm resending the virus anyway.
>POOF!  You're all hamsters.]

   That explains the strange craving I've had for carrots...

>I wrote in plot spoilers in my first post?  Wha -- ? oh.  Sarcasm.  Gotcha.
>
>(Sorry.)

   All's forgiven.

>>   Actually in the US 12 year old boys aren't allowed to see this film
>>without a parent or legal guardian.  Kinda hard to tailor a movie for an
>>audience that legally can't see it without mom and/or dad sitting in the
>>next seat, eh?
>
>Oh, absolutely! :|

   Now I don't question that certain horror movies (i.e. the Halloween
series) were written with underage viewers in mind (16-17 year olds),
but I don't know of any parent that would allow a 12 year old to watch
any of the Alien movies (well perhaps after they have been edited for
broadcast television).  All of them are clearly intended for mature
adults, which is probably why I've liked them, where as I find movies
like "Halloween", "Friday the 13th", and "Nightmare of Elm Street" a
complete waste of good film stock.

>The semiotic density of that scene was so great, and so twisted, it seemed
>totally... um, alien, to the rest of the film.

   Makes you wish there had been scenes of similar
intensity--unfortunately it appears that there weren't.

>I first saw _Alien_ (#1) right around the same time I first played
>Traveller; I guess it and the sequels occupy the same sort of spot in my
>sci-fi constellations as I think the Star Wars films do for a lot of other
>Traveller fans.  When I think of Traveller freighters, my immediate mental
>picture is the Nostromo, not the Millenium Falcon.

   In my first Traveller campaign back in 1982, I had a NPC character
that ran around in a hopped up freighter and had a Vargr for a
travelling companion.  I guess you where *that* came from...

   I didn't see the first Alien movie until substantially later (just
before Aliens came out in '86), much to my regret.  I've tried to catch
the others at the theatre since.

>Probably this is a good one to rent on video, though; I'm not sure it's
>worth paying the premium for seeing it on the big screen.  Maybe I'm just
>jaded, so soon after seeing _Gattaca_ and _Starship Troopers_.  Regardless
>of how stupid their contents, Verhoeven has a good eye for spectacle.
>Aliens #4 didn't particularly impress me on the visual side of things.

   Well you just gave a better view than the New Yorker, the critic for
which said that he didn't like it, but couldn't tone down the sarcasm
long enough to say 'why'.  Must be a NYC thing.

>>   Film does not create civilization, it holds a mirror up to it.  Watch
>>the *whole* movie, and think about it in that context.  It's apparent
>>that you missed the point.
>
>Watched the *whole* movie, am thinking about it as you suggest, and still
>miss The Point.  Can I have a hint?

   The Point was the themes and other facets of the movie you just
described.  You sound as though you actually sat through the movie and
gave it a chance to entertain you.  It's also apparent that it fell
short of your expectations when it came to visuals.  One of the
criticisms of the last film was that it seemed liked they spent too much
time on visuals and not enought time on everything else.  That might
have been a consideration this time around and they went too far in the
other direction.

   Based on your review this time around, I'll wait to see it at the
"$1.75" (second run) theatre instead of catching it at the matinee (for
$3.50), and lower my expectations.  Thanks for the head's up.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:21:03 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

> I wasn't there, now was I? ;->

Now whose fault is that, Mr I-Don't-Do-IRC? <G>

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:31:07 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Journal Death

Andrew Boulton wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <1ad0af51.3493f691@aol.com>
> 
> Kagehira,
> 
> > The Journal is not dead, but has been suspended for an indefinite
> > period....At this point.
> 
> Pining for the fjords?
>


Yes my good fellow, tis merely pining for the fiords!  Not dead at all. 
:)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:44:49 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

>ps. Anybody tried to do Traveller stats for the weapons in the movie? :-)

Nope, but I'm sure my players might love a couple of Noisy Crickets. :)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:52:24 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

>If there were no reactionless drives, then we would have to keep track of 
>some kind of fuel, and constant accel/decel (see early tables and 
>formulae) would be impossible.

Again, keeping track of reaction mass is too much record keeping during play.
On the other hand, I look at 'Fighting Ships' and the pictures seem to have
thruster stuff shooting out...

Granted, they're only the pictures, but then again, back then the staff was
tighter on the pictures capturing the proper feel...

Who knows.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:12:06 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Complete stats for Kirur system

>3	B-863ARK-F K	Kirur

The home world of a TL 15 major race has only a class B starport?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:48:46 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

Just before the list went down, I posted a fairly detailed letter about the
Aliens and the bioweapon origins, which I will try to repost (more or less in
spirit).

>The old JTAS (Issue #4) contained an article in "The Bestiary" section
>describing a creature called a "Reticulan Parasite".  The article was written
by
>Chuck Kallenback III, and based off all available Alien information of the
>time.  Interestingly, since the article was written before "Aliens" came out,
>the life-cycle of the Alien was described a little differently.  It did not
>involve a Queen egg-layer at all.  Instead it said that an Adult alien killed
to
>gain two hours of life-force from its victims.  When it ran out of victims,
the
>Alien went dormant and the body began producing larvae which crawled away
from
>the body at specific intervals and grew into a nest of eggs.

According to the original life-cycle designed by Giger for the Alien, it would
kill or cocoon its victims.  When hungry, it would eat someone.  Sometimes,
though, it would leave the victim alive and lay an egg inside, while covering
the victim with a sticky goop.  The egg would eat away at the victim and then
grow into a new "egg-pod", able to wait and eventually begin the process
again.  There was a scene that was cut from the film where Ripley found Dallas
cocooned (ever wonder why they never really showed Dallas' death?), and I
believe he begged her to kill him, or something similiar.  

In addition, the actual life-cycle of the alien was supposed to be _extremely_
short.  It would kill/reproduce and then die within a very short time.  This
was kept in the movie, the alien gets quite sluggish at the very end (Ripley's
got to really torment it to get it to move), the implication was that it was
dying.

Both tidbits are taken from a "the making of..." type book that I saw when I
was much younger, and has probably since been stolen from my local library.
In addition it had the original surface suit designs by Moebius (drool!  I am
a Moebius surface suit fetishist) and a bunch of other really cool stuff...

It also had two or three pages from the _original_ script, stuff that wasn't
filmed.  The original script said that the alien they discovered was one of a
"degenerate" race.  A race that once had all sorts of culture, learning and
technology, but had declined into a savage state.  They had some original
artwork of a flat topped pyramid, and some crude hieroglyphs drawn by Dan
O'Bannon (I think) that showed the alien's life cycle from beginning to end.

Well, something didn't click, and they dropped the whole idea.  Now, according
to the dialogues between O'Bannon, Scott, and Giger and the interviewer that
were spread throughout the book, it was stated that the Alien was designed as
a weapon, and the Petrified Elephant Man was a captain carrying the eggs in a
big freighter to deploy them.  Of course, he fell victim to his own race's
weapon.  That's why there are thousands of such eggs in the massive horseshoe
ship's hull.

I'm not sure which member of the designing team said this, but I do remember
reading it.

Now, after that, for whatever reason, they decided to make the critters in
Aliens more insectoid then necromantic in look.  O'Bannon and Giger had
originally envisioned an alien creature with a method of reproduction that was
truly...  well...  alien.  Cameron and his crew decided to make them more
hived out, so that they were big, viscious ants.  I think that Cameron wanted
the tails to be stingers too, but I'm not sure exactly where I read this, so,
I'm not going to stand by it very strongly if someone wants to call me on it.
Maybe when I read the Aliens script, perhaps?

With Alien3, they decided to shift back to the original alien, in design at
least.  Once again, the critter was sleek and streamlined and bio-mechanical,
and far less insectoid.  Alien3 however further complicated the reproduction
issue by introducing a completely random face-hugger.  Alien3 introduced a new
theory (possibly not new, may have been in the Dark Horse comics first).  The
implanted seed "borrowed" the host's DNA and merged it with its own.  This is
why we have the ultra-viscious, running around on four legs dog-alien.  (As a
side note, the original filmed version had the face-hugger "impregnate" one of
the oxen that the prisoners used to pull the escape pod from the water.  This
was changed at the last minute, as somebody on the design team thought a dog-
alien would be more effective.  There are some horror movie trading cards
floating around with an oxen/face-hugger photo, and an oxen chestburster.)

I will not spoil the 4th movie for anybody, but suffice to say that it further
complicates the question of the aliens' reproductive cycle (on purpose) and
muddles with the aliens' abilities just a bit much for my tastes.

Now, the Dark Horse comics series both complicated and clarified the aliens in
different ways.  On one hand, they more or less stuck with the Cameron
interpretation of the aliens, and seemed to cater largely towards the "Space
Marines with BIG Guns" Aliens fans.  They seemed to screw up the technological
aspects of the universe pretty severely by trying to explain how _every_ piece
of equipment worked.

On the other hand, they came up with the idea that the Petrified Elephant Man
race _did_ leave the alien eggs to destroy humanity, knowing that humanity
would eventually take them back to Earth.  They also added to the mix by
saying that the aliens could perform a second function, that of terraforming
earth to be more like the home planet of the Petrified Elephant Men.

Take all this as whatever it may be worth to you.  The more you study the
alien, the more perplexing it gets :)

Semo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2159
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, December 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2160



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Can of worms....
Re: macro viruses, VM viruses
PAWs
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2156
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: [TTL] Battle Tender
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2157
Re: near-c rock fix proposal
re: So he tried again .
Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught
Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!
Re: Re : PMPP field-testing
BITS 101 stuff (was Startrek Architect's Manual?)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2159
Re: Can of worms....
FF&S2 Observations
Re: PAWs
Re: Technological conservatism.
Re: Can of worms....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:12:47 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

>This has always bothered me too.  I thought that it made space combat 
>very unrealistic for me, but I grew up with Startrek, Battlestar 
>Galactica, and Star Wars.  I for one, wouldn't mind the ranges being 
>reduced when or if someone ever gets around to writing some good 
>space combat rules.

Well, I'd bet that Star Wars, Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica are just as
unrealistic as Traveller as far as space combat goes :)

There goes another question in the category of Technological Conservatism
though:  Why the super long range combats in space?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:27:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: macro viruses, VM viruses

Sorry for the long quote, but I think it's relevant.

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> I wrote:
> >
> > The system will be vulnerable at whatever point in time and space the code
> > store gets loaded.  The problem with current systems is that there are too
> > many points at which the code store can be loaded, because the code store
> > is the same logical object as the data store (segments are arbitrary and
> > defined at runtime, after code is loaded).
> >
> > Once the two are separated, there will be a whole volume of OS design
> > problems that have to be addresed:  Who decides when the code store can be
> > written?  When is the decision made?  Does the user always get notified,
> > with the option of canceling the write?  What will be done to facilitate
> > installation software (will the user have to approve *each* write, or can
> > he/she approve a related group of writes, and when does approval expire)?
> > That last one is the killer; there is a huge price tag attached. 
> >
> > Clearly, all code loaded into a machine must first reside in the data
> > store (be it primary or secondary), since a program's code will be
> > distributed together with its data, and the same distribution media
> > (network, disk) will probably be used for both.  Likewise, newly written
> > software will reside in the data store.  Hence, there must be some kind of
> > data pathway that goes between the data store and the code store.  While
> > we can take every precaution that the software controlling this path is
> > non-hostile, we will always have a certain vulnerability here.  There is
> > always the possibility that the user will let a hostile program into the
> > system unintentionally (either through implicit or explicit approval, and
> > the implicit approval is where the real threat comes from, which is why
> > those OS questions are so important). 
> 
> Well, *especially* if this is the sort of system you are using, program
> *code* has no reason to be distributed on writeable media. Use ROM
> packs for the code. And steal an idea from OS-9 and require all code to
> be both relocatable and re-entrant (actually, the very *design* of such
> a cpu pretty much ensures re-entrant code). 

This might work, if industry decides to limit itself to ROM packs on its
computers.  The cost is considerable: 

1.  No more downloading code from any kind of network server.

2.  Special purpose platforms are required for software development; the
    ROM packs are "burned" from code on these platforms.

3.  From (2), custom software tools and specialized applications rise in
    price by one or more orders of magnitude.  No more free software (a
    ROM pack is physical media which costs money to manufacture).

4.  Academia, being mostly small-time (and the largest source of free
    software), will diverge from industry's path.  The benefits of
    academic research will take longer to reach the industry (this is
    already a problem today).  Money for academia will dry up, and less
    pure research will get done.  Progress will slow.

5.  The platforms from (2) can still be compromised.  When that happens,
    all ROM packs produced from the compromised platform can be made
    hostile.  When a trigger date comes, the trojan goes off and every
    machine that was using the ROM pack goes down.  People will begin to
    question the benefits of the ROM pack method.

Sorry to be such a nay-sayer.  I hate being so negative, but I think it's
true.

Thanks for listening.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:05:05
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: PAWs

Thinking about PAWs and purple wands and stuff ...

a military-grade (circa 50 megajoule) PAW is going to do bad things to
radiation-sensitive equipment and unshielded people.

I can definitly see it shorting out most everything electronic and killing
most of the people aboard.

This is a Very Bad Thing for a pirate, because it will render the ship
unable to be captured and used.

It is also a Very Bad thing for the Imperial Navy, becasue it's use in an
ecosystem will require, at minimum, a lot of decontamination work. It's
also one hell of a terror weapon, for raids against small, undefended
colonies.

Therefore they are going to be heavily regulated.

Quick figures on a 250 megawatt PAW, optimised for 30kk range.

Sixteen meters long, two meters diameter. Output 50 megajoules.

Muzzle area three point one four two meters squared.

Theoretical Effective range 37 000 km.

Ninety KK beam pointer (3 m3, MCr 0.3, 0.3 t)

Tunnel volume 50.27 m3, 37.7 t, MCr 5.027.

250 MW accumulator (12.5 m3, MCr 0.125, 25 t)

Normal crewstation (7 m3, MCr 0.002, 0.2 t)

Total weapon mass 65.2 t, volume 72.77 m3 (5.2 dt), MCr 5.454.

Damage is 35 at 30kk, 29 at 45kk, 23 at 60kk, 17 at 75kk and 15 at 90kk.

Screw it. Why are we stuffing around with a 50 megajoule weapon ? What are
we, those wimps from X-tek ? Jeeez, it barely penetrates a starship hull at
60 000 km.

Upgrade to 250 megajoule output (max with a 16m tube is 256 MJ). This will
need 1250 megawatts of input.

Add another 50 m3 of accumulators. Mass is now 166t, MCr 6, 105.7 m3 (8
dtons).

Damage is now 79 at 30kk, 65 at 45kk, 48 at 60kk, 39 at 75kk and 33 at 90kk.

Now,that more like it *grin* putting many sorts of harm onto lightly
armoured ships at up to one fifth of a light-second, and stopping an
unarmoured ship at three tenths of a light second.

The weapon would easily fit as a spinal mount in a 100dt ship, assuming
power input is sufficient. A 200dt ship would easily fit one. Remeber to
get a sensor suite that can make a fire-control solution out to 90kk or so.

**** "Uncie Hengie, leeeegals say that weeee could get those nice Sayat
ladies to build them, and then transport them around but not through
through through the Impeeeeerium, and sell them to most everyone, and that
Nasty Mr Zhunatsu couldnt stop us" ****

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:22:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

In mail you write:

> And Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>I meant "How was it that you were in *possesion* of an old dildo
>>harness?"
>
> It was planted, Your Honor!  The f*cking pigs planted it on me, I swear!  I
> ain't never seen the thing before in my life!  I was set up!
>
> Short serious answer:  it's occasionally entertaining to have a phallus,
> even if the PMPP isn't available.  Yet.
>
> When's GenCon again?  Or this Arisia thing?  I ain't never been 86'ed from
> a sci-fi convention before...

Uhmmm, kenji? Pardon me, but I was under the impression that you were
*already* equipped with a phallus. Or are you of the female persuasion?
:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:02:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2156

In mail you write:

> If Famile Spofulam is still around circa 1100, I suspect that we will
> be building man-portable damper boxes, so Marines can fire 12mm
> Californium collapsing rounds ...

I don't think so....

If I recall the critical mass for Californium, a standard 12mm slug is
*way* over critical mass. It'd blow as soon as it cleared the damper
field. Try 5.56mm or so.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:05:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

In mail you write:

> I always thought that traveller ships should be cramped internally,
> but some rooms (such as the bridges and media centres) are so spacious
> that you'd think the designers wanted to allow room for film cameras to
> be manoeuvred around :-)

The usual reason for things to be cramped is that space is at a
premium. But in a spaceship *mass* is what costs. Making the hull
bigger only increases the mass a bit, and you only need to worry about
*drag* if you are going to make high speed manuevers in an atmosphere. 

And given that you can't exactly "take a walk on deck", you'll *have*
to avoid feeling cramped unless you want to exclude 90% of the
population from using the ship!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:18:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TTL] Battle Tender

In mail, trav-tech@qrc.com writes:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> 5. The tender doesn't have the grapples. The *rider* has a grapple. The
>> tender just has reinforced struts for the riders to grapple to!
>> 
>> Betcha this one works without any rule changes. :-)
>
> Nope.  I tried a similar idea to design a salvage tug (a destroyer-sized
> ship for recovery of jump-incapable damaged ships).  My image of it was
> a small ship that was all drive and grapple.  However, it is virtually
> impossible to grapple a _larger_ vessle, due to the immense surface-area
> requirements.  I think Bruce's option (3) might work, however (i.e.
> allow arbitrary increase in surface area for open-frame vessels).

I think we need "special" grapples then. Because what the ship is
grappling to is a *strut* which is *smaller* than it is. The grapple
only has to be able to support the mass of the rider though.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:48:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2157

In mail you write:

>    If mechanics define Traveller, rather than game setting, then I'm going to
> try using Traveller mechanics to run Star Trek. Will that then be
> Traveller? I don't think so :)

Star Trek *cannot* be done with Traveller "mechanics". No warp drive,
no transporters, no subspace radio.

> And, of course, you run into the problem that Traveller is on it's
> fourth set of mechanics....

Ah! You are confusing the *rules* with the "technologies".

>         I prefer to think of Traveller as the fictional setting. YMMV.

You can have a completely different history and set of cultures and
still have "Traveller" if you keep the basic factors:

1. no FTL except ships
2. ships travel thru another space where they cannot be interfered with.
3. interstellar trip length is limited
4. trip duration is multiple days per trip

Basicly, what we are defining here as the "mechanics" are the *physics*
of the game universe. How the *universe* works, not how the *game* is
played. 

And you know something? The factors I list above *don't* fit Star Trek
(nor a number of other fictional settings). But they *do* fit an awful
lot of classical SF, and even some *current* SF.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:34:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: near-c rock fix proposal

In mail you write:

>>
>    Hi.
>    
>> From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
>    
>> If you read the thread carefully, we were talking about thruster plates,
>> which have no reaction mass. Hence to conserve energy properly their
>> energy requirement has to go up with velocity (and to conserve momentum
>> you have to be dumping momentum into some object - like a nearby star),
>> which you can measure your velocity relative to.
>    
>    I am aware that we are talking about thruster plates, and that they
>    have no reaction mass.  I may have forgotten to point out in my posts
>    that the equations can apply to reactionless drives; you need only set
>    `r' to zero.  When you do that, you get a constant acceleration for
>    a constant power input, exactly what the rules require.  Thus you do not
>    /need/ to have a velocity-dependent power requirement to conserve energy.

You *do*. 

>>>[basic rocket equations snipped]
>> These I know - but they're for reaction drives, not reactionless.
>    
>    They can apply to reactionless drives when r=0.

Sorry, but at that point the equations *fail*. They are derived from an
integral with a limit *approaching* zero. But *at* zero, you have
infinities involved, and the equations *fail*.

You see, the reason a reaction drive can get away with constant power
for a given accel is *because* of the reaction mass. It applies the
same impulse to each "bit" of reaction mass, and all of them *start* at
rest relative to the drive. Thus the KE and momentum conservation works
out ok.

But if there's nothing being pushed on, then you violate conservation
laws big time, as you are turning energy into momentum, which isn't
allowed. 

The only way to not carry reaction mass *and* to obey conservation laws
is to keep pushing on the *same* object (planet or star). And in that
case, the fact that you are now pushing on something that *isn't "at
rest" with respect to the drive changes everything.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:03:37 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: So he tried again .

Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com> Brian wrote:

>How do you determine a target number for an animal attack in T4???  I can't
>find the rules anywhere.  I can find damage dice, but that's it.
>
>This question is really haunting me, so if anyone has a clue, I'd greatly
>appreciate it.

Not an official IG answer, but in the forthcoming 101 Lifeforms we are
using a Target Number of 10, and task dice of 2D in native ecosystem
against natural prey, and 3D for non-natural situations. (Approx 92% and
50% respectively).

Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:27:51 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Behemoth class Dreadnaught

[snip lots about a dispersed or close structured ship design]
>The *effective* surface area will work out to be much the same as you'd
>get if you had an infinitely stretchable balloon, inflated it, slipped
>the ship inside, and then deflated the balloon. Any "convex" area will
>radiate with it's real surface area. Any "concave" area will radiate as
>if it had the area of a sheet stretched over it.

Hmm,  Ok,  Try this then.

[warning, non-traveller-like concept follows, parental advisory recommended]

While a ship is in jump it accumulates heat in some form of capacitor or
heat sink (Expanding H2?) for later removal.  When entering normal space,
standard procedure is to deploy a 'radiative balloon' on a cable or gantry
to place it away from the ship a bit.  This baloon is inflated with the
chemical or vapor which has been used to store the heat (or a
heat-exchanging liquid is used to cool the capacitor if you wish).  The
Balloon acts as a radiative surface for the ship on a regular basis,
eliminating heat problems.

Eh, never mind.  It has good real-world potential, but it ain't traveller.
I'll still be going with provebial 'black boxes' that magically turn the
generated heat into small white furry rabbits to be ejected out the
airlock.  Occasionally this can be used in the role of sandcasters during
an especially heated battle.  They also make good antipersonnel weapons.
That's much more like traveller.

By the way, anyone ever heard of a "poodle gun"?  Secret Zhodani weapons
project or just a nasty rumor?

Pete

who doesn't have a clue why he's so silly today.

Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:13:37 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!!

 "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:

>At 06:14 1997-12-13 PST, you wrote:
>>No, no. Calvin is *obviously* a member of Famile Spofulam's junior
>>design team. He'd fit in *perfectly*. Hobbes is an Aslan assigned to
>>"supervise" the team.
>
>Hobbes is probably supposed to pound the members of the team to their
>senses when they go too far.

So he is a Kafer?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:11:37 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Re : PMPP field-testing

Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com> wrote:
> Mind you, the
>airfair from Australia is rather high, and since I now have a wedding to
>think about (I just got engaged yesterday), other things are likely to be
>taking up my available money. (Still, here's hoping =) ).

Congratulations to you both.

The last 18 months of married life have somewhat reduced my available money
<sigh> so I sympathise! ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:21:20 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: BITS 101 stuff (was Startrek Architect's Manual?)

Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Whilst browsing in my local Games Shop to find the NAM, I spotted a set
>of BITS 101 books.
>
>I didn't buy any 'cos I already have them but I hope it wasn't just a
>one off (or someone selling their own copy).

Andy has recently arranged a distribution deal for the 101 books (I'll have
to check who with) so they should be more easily available.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:27:13 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2159

> We had this discussion on TravIRC one night a long time ago. We came 
> to the conclusion that you could dump the rules and keep the setting 
> and still have Traveller. And you could keep the rules and dump the 
> setting and still have Traveller. But you can't dump *both* and still 
> have Traveller. Pretty much everyone there agreed.


There is a difference between setting and game. My point in my earlier post
was that Traveller is not so utterly dependent on it's particular set of
game mechanics, that you can't port it into another system and still have
it "feel" like Traveller.
	Now, let's say someone has created a variant setting, say based on the old
Terran Confederation. They have, up to this point in time, been using the
Traveller rules. They decide to port this over to GURPS, but still call it
GURPS Traveller. Are we going to chase them off the list, screaming "This
isn't Traveller! Go away!"? 
	I have no intention of ceasing to run Traveller (the game system),
assuming that T4.1 actually makes it to the marketplace. BUT, I will be
using the Quick Generation rules for all characters from now on. I do not
like and have never liked random character creation. And I may just
institute a system of Ads/Disads for Traveller. I like the way they assist
both the player in defining their character's personality and history, and
the GM in finding story ideas for that character. If however, the
doomsayers are correct and IG does not bring out T4.1...GURPS here I come.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:00:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

In mail you write:

> There goes another question in the category of Technological Conservatism
> though:  Why the super long range combats in space?

The "ultra short range" combats shown in just about *every* SF movie
and TV program are incredibly unrealistic. Any sort of *real* space
combat (except with extremely fuel limited rockets in orbit around a
planet) will *have* to be at ranges far outside visual ranmge (and you
can see a ship a lot farther than you might think)

The combat ranges in Traveller are a *direct* consequence of the
manuever drives. They are based on how far you move in a "turn", and on
what sort of velocity changes you can make in one.

Combat at shorter ranges and lower speeds would *require* the party
being attacked to *consent* to the attack by letting the other guy get
that close.

And Traveller combat isn't all *that* long range. Over on
rec.arts.sf.science, we've had threads discussing "near future" space
combat that had attacks taking place at multiple AU ranges. 

The key to *those* was that the vessels had to conserve fuel and stick
to Hohmann transfer orbits (in other words, to be sitting ducks for
*months* at a time).

It's not "technological conservatism". It's the laws of phsyics. Combat
ranges are determined by propulsion technology as well as weapons tech.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:07:28 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: FF&S2 Observations

I've been messing around with FF&S2 again, trying to design a ship for
my campaign world...

....and I've notice that using realistic thrust, big drives are required
on heavily armored warships (duh!) -- which REALLY jacks up the price.

For example, my 800ton 6-G capable ship withan armor rating of 30 [115]
costs 2.7 billion credits (2,700MCr). The thruster unit itself is
900MCr, while the powerplant is 870MCr.

I'm not saying this is bad...but I would point out that it is a far cry
from the ships in classic Traveller. 

For yucks, I design the standard 400 ton SDB - TL 12, Armor of 30[165]
(which personally I think is a little low), 2 lasers, 2 missiles,
average sensors, no ECM (which I think is unrealistic, but it keeps the
cost down)...and the cost was still 1.2 billion credits (1,200MCr). The
thruster unit was 451MCr (providing 6.0G/6.1G thrust) and the power
plant was 2200MW (with only 5Mw surplus). The thrust drive takes up
1800MW of power.

Now I understand that the above is the realistic model - but I have to
admit that it's bugging me that I'm having a hard time recreating some
classic ships and having their crews and/or price be even remotely close
(this SDB needs a crew of 32...18 being engineers, for the drive and
power plant).

Does anyone have any opinions on the matter? 

- -- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:10:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: PAWs

In mail you write:

> a military-grade (circa 50 megajoule) PAW is going to do bad things to
> radiation-sensitive equipment and unshielded people.
>
> I can definitly see it shorting out most everything electronic and killing
> most of the people aboard.

Don't forget that these are *neutral* particle beams. And that the hull
makes a damn good Faraday cage.

> This is a Very Bad Thing for a pirate, because it will render the ship
> unable to be captured and used.
>
> It is also a Very Bad thing for the Imperial Navy, becasue it's use in an
> ecosystem will require, at minimum, a lot of decontamination work.

Huh? Why is decontamination needed? I think you are confusing
*radiation* and *radioactivity*. Hitting something with lots of most
types of radiation will kill people, plants, etc. But the radiation is
from the beam. It goes away when the beam does. 

To have lasting radiation effects (and thus have a need to
decontaminate) you have to *induce* RADIOACTIVITY. That's hard to do. 
A really high energy PAW will induce *some*, but not all that much. You
have to affect atomic *nuclei* to make things radioactive. And PAw
generally don't.

Now if someone comes up with a PAW that fires a nice "heavy" beam of
*neutrons*, then you'll have some interesting effects.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:31:35 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Actually, reactionless drives have been *implied* from the very
> > beginning, since there was no mention in the early travel formulae of
> > keeping track of reaction mass.
> 
> Actually, there's a statement in the "little black books" about
> tracking reaction mass. It said that if you wanted to worry about
> manuever fuel, assume there was enough for a week? Month? of use (I
> don't have the book here, but I read it as "enough to run at normal
> acceleration for a month".

Interesting! I wish I had a LLB to check for that comment... :)

The book I remember using the travel formula from was _The Traveller
Book_. Is it in there too?

<SNIPPage>

> True, assuming 100 tons of fuel, the ship can only run the drive for a
> bit more than a day. But that's enough to go a *long* way.

Ah! But here is the crux of the matter. IIRC, the reaction fuel isn't
even accounted for in the design of the ship. 100 tons is a significant
amount of "slop" for a 600 ton design. The only fuel space alloted was
space for jump fuel.

Anyway, the point I was attempting to make was: not worrying about
reaction fuel is a gross simplification. Reaction mass takes up a lot of
space, and worrying about it requires judicious planning of travel --
you can't use the optimum full accel 'till midpoint travel formula for
many long-distance trips.

This is why MT came up with the reactionless drive handwave, and TNE
introduced HEPlaR drives. Not tracking fuel makes the drive, for all
intents and purposes, reactionless; whether it's described that way or
not is another matter. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:16:06 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

>There goes another question in the category of Technological Conservatism
>though:  Why the super long range combats in space?

My bet is that they wanted single hex planets for Mayday gravity rules and
this has stuck. Remember the first Traveller spacecombat rules with planet
templates and lasers almost totally unaffected by range? Did anybody us
them? As for that matter, did anybody use the MT gridbased spacecombat
system that surely must be one of the most screwed up ass backwards
interpretations of newtonian movement ever.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2160
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
x>"#                       IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note 1
                 0           C       +n T    traveller@MPGN.COM SMTP traveller@MPGN.COM   0      SMTP     0      traveller@MPGN.COM           0      'traveller@MPGN.COM'    0      SMTP:TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM   9     @:            M. $   RE: Complete stats for Kirur system        ; !  Z        : 
  E	 !   38399DA49B09BD11A29BE2695C5C10AF A ,      #      &      )      .      6     @ 9 0v.X	 p    $   RE: Complete stats for Kirur system q       	XBuѕw               SMTP           umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca     R]@        e   3B-863ARK-FKKIRURTHEHOMEWORLDOFATL15MAJORRACEHASONLYACLASSBSTARPORT?YUPHEY,DONTLOOKATMETHOSEARETHECA    	       
  LZFuK 
 PT ch
set2 2"3zhel Dlg4
}
	;255

`ng103 li36
Urc @ >Fpm`t@>   B-863ARK-F KKirp
 ?!OnT hp&wld of a&`L 15  j6r &a  ly'c`B srpA?#]t#H$I+Yup.+-Hey, d '@0ok'@:.&ao' t&c p i2P )>t .K.C1PKp1ky+umk53@cc.6  pitoba.2P+k"o.8$6" =            @ 0 W(	@ 0 W(	 =       RE:      
47   Traveller-digest     Monday, December 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2162



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
New Technology
Re: near-c rock fix proposal
Traveller Technologies as "Mechanics"
(Hi thrust + armour = obscene cost) and more PAWs
Traveller and Nanotech
Re: alien
Traveller and GURPS
Re: Journal Death
Re: Can of worms...
Re: New Technology
Art and Layout in Gamebooks
Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 19:41:05 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

On 12/14/97 at 09:21 PM,  "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com> said:

>> I wasn't there, now was I? ;->

>Now whose fault is that, Mr I-Don't-Do-IRC? <G>

Well, I *could* plead work, seeing as I was teaching on Thursday nights,
but we both know I wouldn't have dropped by even if I was home. IRC and I
just don't get along too well. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:18:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: New Technology

I just read the latest (Jan 1998) issue of Popular Science today.  We're
headed for the cyberpunk era fast.  Two developments which exist now
(experimental, but fully functional, so I'd say around TL 9, with TL 8
batteries). 

1) A flashlight-sized device that can detect human sized respiration and
movement through an up to 8 inch brick wall using radar.  This device has
a range of around 3 meters, though they are hoping for 30 soon.  Ths one 
is being developed for use by law enforcement officers. 

2) A remote drone 15 cm in diameter with GPS navigation a TV quality video
camera a 2 km range, 55 kph cruising speed and a 15 minute duration (they
are working on better batteries).  Also, since this is being developed for
the military, this is only the one they are telling us about. 

This thing is being designed for battlefield use and works with VR 
glasses (which if the photo is correct are amazingly small).

Update either of these devices to TL 12 (which involves a 7.5x increase 
in battery power if nothing else) and things start getting pretty 
amazing.  

Lots of Traveller tech (other than antigravity and similar technomagic) 
looks pretty primitive compared to what is coming out today...


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:08:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: near-c rock fix proposal

> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:34:49 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> 
> The only way to not carry reaction mass *and* to obey conservation laws
> is to keep pushing on the *same* object (planet or star). And in that
> case, the fact that you are now pushing on something that *isn't "at
> rest" with respect to the drive changes everything.

Hmmmm...how about *this* weird idea:

The thruster drive uses [insert handwave here] to 'find' nearby particles
that are more or less at rest relative to the drive, and pushes them
backward for thrust.  This has several interesting effects:

1. For low velocities inside a star system, one can postulate that there
   will always be enough matter near enough and motionless enough for
   the drive to push against.  Zodiacal dust, solar wind, and so forth
   come to mind; simple thermal noise should have a lot of stuff moving
   in all directions at a broad range of (star-relative) velocities.

2. At high enough velocities, the drive won't be able to find enough
   nearby particles at rest relative to the drive.  It will need to push
   on ones already moving with respect to the ship instead, incurring
   an exponentially increasing energy cost.  Goodbye, killer lifeboats!

3. Flying a thruster vehicle in an atmosphere or near the ground becomes
   interesting...there might be a tendency to push things around a little
   bit. :)  Suddenly, starports as specialized landing fields (as opposed
   to the 'plop down anywhere' model) make sense.

4. The 20 AU drop-off in thruster efficiency is explained as being due to
   the near-interstellar vacuum out there rather than via a gravitational
   handwave.

If one posits the 'find a bunch of convenient particles' step (which is
admittedly a whopper), this seems to work well.  I'm *not* proposing these
be 'found' using sensors or the like, but rather that the 'extended drive
field' will only *interact* with particles having the right velocity.
Shades of Maxwell's Demon!

Comments?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 20:01:34 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Traveller Technologies as "Mechanics"

On 12/15/97 at 12:48 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>>    If mechanics define Traveller, rather than game setting, then I'm going to
>> try using Traveller mechanics to run Star Trek. Will that then be
>> Traveller? I don't think so :)

>Star Trek *cannot* be done with Traveller "mechanics". No warp drive, no
>transporters, no subspace radio.

>> And, of course, you run into the problem that Traveller is on it's
>> fourth set of mechanics....

>Ah! You are confusing the *rules* with the "technologies".

Ah!  Somebody else is defining Traveller as more than a set of rules or a
specific background!

>>         I prefer to think of Traveller as the fictional setting. YMMV.

>You can have a completely different history and set of cultures and still
>have "Traveller" 

Damn straight!

>...if you keep the basic factors:

>1. no FTL except ships
>2. ships travel thru another space where they cannot be interfered with.
>3. interstellar trip length is limited
>4. trip duration is multiple days per trip

Um, well...more or less.

What you've got to do is avoid effective *communication* or *travel*
between systems FTL...except in ships.

Let's say, gravity propagates it's effects at something above c, and in
Traveller we can manipulate gravity..then, say, it's possible to modulate
those gravity waves/particles to send a message FTL.  IMO, that *wouldn't*
be Traveller.  Given the same FTL-gravity, but limit the range at which any
modulation can be detected to..let's say 1 million km..I'd say you're still
playing Traveller, because you can't really use this technology to
*effectively* transmit information between systems faster than with a ship.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:11:07
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: (Hi thrust + armour = obscene cost) and more PAWs

>From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
>Subject: FF&S2 Observations
>
>I've been messing around with FF&S2 again, trying to design a ship for
>my campaign world...
>
>...and I've notice that using realistic thrust, big drives are required
>on heavily armored warships (duh!) -- which REALLY jacks up the price.
>
>For example, my 800ton 6-G capable ship withan armor rating of 30 [115]
>costs 2.7 billion credits (2,700MCr). The thruster unit itself is
>900MCr, while the powerplant is 870MCr.
>
>I'm not saying this is bad...but I would point out that it is a far cry
>from the ships in classic Traveller. 
>
>For yucks, I design the standard 400 ton SDB - TL 12, Armor of 30[165]
>(which personally I think is a little low), 2 lasers, 2 missiles,
>average sensors, no ECM (which I think is unrealistic, but it keeps the
>cost down)...and the cost was still 1.2 billion credits (1,200MCr). The
>thruster unit was 451MCr (providing 6.0G/6.1G thrust) and the power
>plant was 2200MW (with only 5Mw surplus). The thrust drive takes up
>1800MW of power.

This is scary when combined with my 250 mejajoule particle weapon, which
(plus enough batteries for 1 hours sustained fire) happily fits in a 200 dt
ship, and costs abou MCr 10.

I'm starting to think that it is two out of sane cost, high gees and armour
protection.

>
>Now I understand that the above is the realistic model - but I have to
>admit that it's bugging me that I'm having a hard time recreating some
>classic ships and having their crews and/or price be even remotely close
>(this SDB needs a crew of 32...18 being engineers, for the drive and
>power plant).
>
>Does anyone have any opinions on the matter? 

Yeah. Once we moved thrust from being based on volume to be based on mass,
6Gs was a lot harder to do.

My back-of-the envelope TL9 starships were dealing with thrusts in about
the 0.1 G range.

>Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:10:22 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: PAWs
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> a military-grade (circa 50 megajoule) PAW is going to do bad things to
>> radiation-sensitive equipment and unshielded people.
>>
>> I can definitly see it shorting out most everything electronic and killing
>> most of the people aboard.
>
>Don't forget that these are *neutral* particle beams. And that the hull
>makes a damn good Faraday cage.

D'oh ... this is what happens when you are relying on 10 year old
high-school physics *grin* You will still do crew casualties, though, right ?

>
>> This is a Very Bad Thing for a pirate, because it will render the ship
>> unable to be captured and used.
>>
>> It is also a Very Bad thing for the Imperial Navy, becasue it's use in an
>> ecosystem will require, at minimum, a lot of decontamination work.
>
>Huh? Why is decontamination needed? I think you are confusing
>*radiation* and *radioactivity*. Hitting something with lots of most
>types of radiation will kill people, plants, etc. But the radiation is
>from the beam. It goes away when the beam does. 
>
>To have lasting radiation effects (and thus have a need to
>decontaminate) you have to *induce* RADIOACTIVITY. That's hard to do. 
>A really high energy PAW will induce *some*, but not all that much. You
>have to affect atomic *nuclei* to make things radioactive. And PAw
>generally don't.

OK. This means that PAWs are far less of a problem for the IN, and thus far
more likely to be standard-issue civilian (albeit high-threat civilian)
weapons.

>
>Now if someone comes up with a PAW that fires a nice "heavy" beam of
>*neutrons*, then you'll have some interesting effects.
>

I'm not a physics geek ... but could you build a PAW by getting hydrogen
with extra neutrons (deuterium), charging it, accelerating it down the
tube, and then neutralising the particle ?

The heavier particle would need more energy to accelerate to near C, but
that would just mean less particles to send to get the same energy.

Enquiring minds in FS' High Energy Solutions branch want to know ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:21:43 -0500
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Traveller and Nanotech

This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

- --------------ms12FECFB079C740FB57BC8252
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've been reading the 'Technological Conservatism' messages with
interest.  Here's my take on nanotech and why it's not widespread in the
Third Imperium: it's been banned by the Imperium.  Just add to your
Imperial Encyclopedia some entries detailing a few gruesome accidents
involving runaway nanotech.  Add a couple of red-zone quarantined worlds
turned to goo (or such) by nanotech replicators.  Hence the
Imperium-wide ban.

Of course, this method leaves open the possibility that the PCs will
come across some kind of illegal nanotech in the course of an adventure,
while at the same time limiting the impact of widespread nanotech.
- --------------ms12FECFB079C740FB57BC8252
Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s"
Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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==
- --------------ms12FECFB079C740FB57BC8252--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:41:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: alien

Mike March wrote:
> 
> The old JTAS (Issue #4) contained an article in "The Bestiary" section
> describing a creature called a "Reticulan Parasite".  The article was written by
> Chuck Kallenback III, and based off all available Alien information of the
> time.  Interestingly, since the article was written before "Aliens" came out,
> the life-cycle of the Alien was described a little differently.  It did not
> involve a Queen egg-layer at all.  Instead it said that an Adult alien killed to
> gain two hours of life-force from its victims.  
I'd forgotten about this one. In terms of game play this would be less cruel 
to pull on players. I've been watching this thread awhile and wanted to make 
some comments:

The original movie concept of the alien had some sort of queen involved
in the creature's reproduction. Reference to this was cut from the movie. 
I have no idea if the original "queen" was similar to the one used in 
Aliens. Since some amphibians can change gender when there is a shortage
of a particular gender, and worker bees can produce a "queen" out of what
amounts to as thin air, I'd always thought that the Alien queen was created 
in this sort of way. Just because we didn't see a "queen" in A1 doesn't 
exclude the possibility of it being there behind the scenes. 

> And then the sequel came.  Starting with "Aliens", the species got a mother.
> Not only did the queen lay eggs, but also cared about her offspring.  The alien
> drones (warriors?) protected the nest, and didn't kill, but captured victims to
> perpetuate the race.  The creatures also showed more intelligence, they had the
> ability to NOT attack when the situation warranted a strategic withdrawal.
> While it is still plausible that this is a genetically engineered lifeform, the
> motivation of the species has definitely shifted.  Killing is for the good of
> the whole, rather than the gain of the individual.  It could still be argued
> that the race reproduces asexually since we've never seen anything that
> impregnates the queen.  But this incarnation is less mobile.  They are tied to
> the nest, and the queen.  In my opinon, that makes it a less efficient weapon.
> 
Again this assumes that it is intended as a short term weapon. In the long 
term mass reproduction will overwhelm the other side. Every one of your 
losses means a gain in the Alien population. Think of a hive structure.

A second complaint I've seen frequently posted is that the Aliens are too
well adapted to human physiology to have occurred naturally. I don't
see this as a problem. First of all I don't see the face hugger and the
chest-ripper as tailored strictly to humans. In the 3rd movie these 
stages of the creature attack and impregnate a dog. It is only necessary 
to assume that "most" animals in our region of the galaxy have a detached 
head (to grab) and that head is connected to a respiratory system in which 
to lay the egg. The end product will be a creature tailored to its new 
environment by sampling some of its host's DNA. Recall that the dog in A3 
produced a creature that moved on four legs and hunted. Because its behavior 
is more cat like, it would have been more consistent in A3 to have had a cat
as a host rather than a dog. This suggested to me that the creature uses its
host as a first guess as to the best morphology for survival in its new 
environment, i.e. it takes on the dominant characteristics of the host
because it assumes they will help with survival. Marc mentions that this 
is an intelligent creature. I'd suggest that that it depends on the 
intelligence of the host. Recall that in A3 the alien seemed more 
instinctive, and less intelligent that in A1 and A2.

> So what is the answer?  Bio-weapon or evolutionary marvel?  Certainly the single
> alien who kills and goes to larval - egg growing incarnation is more likely to
> be a bio-weapon than the queen based version.  The lone alien is just an
> efficient killing machine. Anyone who designed the hive alien for use as a
> weapon must have been insane, especially since the queen obviously has the
> ability to produce more queens.  The species is intelligent and adaptive and
> vicious and let's face it: isn't likely to stay put wherever you deploy it.

So if you don't believe that the creature was a natural occurance that was 
transported off its home world by mistake, there is still the question of 
who would build such a weapon? Could grandfather's conflict have unleashed
something along these lines? Perhaps it was a mistake that got loose? A
side in the conflict that sees it has nothing left to lose (for example 
the builders of the Berserker ships) might create something that is guaranteed
to take the other side with it. What about the psychological value of
threatening to unleash such a creature? 

> What goes around, comes around!
Big time.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                |                                   |
Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
                                |          /   _`,                  |
Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
Phone: (228) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
       (228) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 20:32:54 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Traveller and GURPS

On 12/15/97 at 09:27 AM,  "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net> said:

>There is a difference between setting and game. My point in my earlier
>post was that Traveller is not so utterly dependent on it's particular set
>of game mechanics, that you can't port it into another system and still
>have it "feel" like Traveller.

Absolutely!

>	Now, let's say someone has created a variant setting, say based on the
>old Terran Confederation. They have, up to this point in time, been using
>the Traveller rules. They decide to port this over to GURPS, but still
>call it GURPS Traveller. Are we going to chase them off the list,
>screaming "This isn't Traveller! Go away!"? 

Guess what my answer is? ;->

>	I have no intention of ceasing to run Traveller (the game system),
>assuming that T4.1 actually makes it to the marketplace. BUT, I will be
>using the Quick Generation rules for all characters from now on. I do not
>like and have never liked random character creation. 

Personally, I like random character generation better than a point system. 
What I think is that there should be several character generation systems
useable with Traveller, point based and random, quick and
detailed...whatever you want.  

>And I may just institute a system of Ads/Disads for Traveller.  I like
>the way they assist both the player in defining their character's
>personality and history, and the GM in finding story ideas for that
>character.

Ads/Disads are a mixed blessing, IMO.  Yes, they can give players ideas and
can spur them to develop unique and interesting characters, but sometimes
players use them as a crutch.  Crutches aren't good, spurs to thought
are...it can go either way.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:49:53 -0800
From: douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Journal Death

Kagehira wrote:

>       The Journal is not dead, but has been suspended for an indefinite
> period....At this point.
>
> Bryan

From where I sit, that is to say an active GM using the T4 system, there is no
difference.  I am fortunate to have the forum of the TML for starship/vehicle
designs, equipment suggestions, story ideas.  These are all things that, prior
to my introduction to this forum, I _depended_ on the industry magazines for.
Most GM's do not have, or are unaware of, access to the TML, and without The
Journal, they will look elsewhere.

I am aware that IG needs the cash flow of the major releases to stay in
business.  But, IMHO, they need to 'stoke' the fires with a relatively
inexpensive medium that keeps players and GMs alike 'hungry' for more.  All the
avenues that I would have pursued, seem to be falling by the wayside.  The
website (which I thought had a lot of promise and would cost relatively little)
appears to have been abandoned, Citizens (an interesting way of engaging your
market) is gone and now the fanzine has been put aside.

So, allow me to propose a solution.  The website has a lot of promise and can be
relatively simple to maintain.  Hell, Word can do most of the HTML coding - you
just have to work on design and content.  Then use a text editor to remove the
MS specific garbage, and clean up the page for the various browsers that hit
your site.

Get the stuff that you are not going to support off of it (i.e. Citizens and
Journal Submissions).  If you are having difficulty keeping to your published
schedules, don't put specific dates, don't make promises that can't be kept (we
remember).  Keep the site simple and easy to download.  Put GM aids on the site
- - not just commercials for your products.  Make it worthwhile to visit!  Putting
the past TAS articles was a good start - follow up with adventure ideas,
mini-campaigns, etc.  Add a section for equipment and vehicle designs.  (IMO,
you missed out when THUDD was looking for a home - that was a golden
opportunity!)  With all the stuff that passes through the TML, I'm sure there is
a percentage of gearheads and budding authors who would let their work get
posted in return for author's credits.  More than that, you would start getting
a lot more traffic on your web site (I do hope that counter is wrong!) and each
person who passes through would be someone who is either interested in, or
currently playing in, a Traveller campaign.  Release past material - do you know
what the demand is out here for some of the past articles of the Journal?  Even
if it is not T4 specific, there will still be interest...there are a lot of
people still playing previous versions of traveller who would love (I'm
sure) even the appearance of support from IG.

Make the website do the job that the Journal should do - i.e. be the method with
which you can provide a consistant framework for GM's to build their campaigns
in.

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:13:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Can of worms...

> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:08:50 -0800
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> 
> Craig and I used Book 2 combat for years.  He had our father's old office
> desk in his room, and we would use color-coded pushpins to mark ships and
> their future and past positions.  Craig was so fond of starship combat that
> I was almost a pirate magnet at times.. "Gee, another 12!  The Scout orders
> you to cut your engines, or he'll fire!"  Just once I should have
> surrendered, just to see the look on his face.

We also had a few miniatures...the eternally unpainted Free Trader, the
incongruously Spitfirish Scout, and so forth.  Ah, I remember it well. :)

I really did enjoy Book 2 starship combat; just having a Newtonian
movement system utterly blew me away.  Needless to say, I also adored
Mayday (Book 2 with hexes).  I never did quite understand why Brilliant
Lances went to that weird, cumbersome turning-points system.

As for what would have happened if you'd surrendered, Douglas, I had that
all planned out...they'd kill you (and all other crewmembers) shortly
after boarding the vessel.  Why leave live enemies/witnesses?  Said
pirates were already capital criminals (IMTU) merely by virtue of having
threatened to fire on your ship.  Long before M0 came around, I realized
that the 3I is driven by economics, and that the Imperium will take active
interest in stomping out all impediments to interworld trade.

Which, of course, begs the question of where all Doug's pirate attackers
came from...maybe his character was just *seriously* unlucky? :)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 22:25:27 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: New Technology

On 12/15/97 at 06:18 PM,  "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com> said:

>2) A remote drone 15 cm in diameter with GPS navigation a TV quality video
>camera a 2 km range, 55 kph cruising speed and a 15 minute duration (they
>are working on better batteries).  Also, since this is being developed for
>the military, this is only the one they are telling us about. 

>This thing is being designed for battlefield use and works with VR 
>glasses (which if the photo is correct are amazingly small).

I thought of news-media types and (spelling alert!) paparazzi, when I read
this one. 

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 22:22:26 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Art and Layout in Gamebooks

On 12/15/97 at 07:40 PM,  "Nathan & Terri Mezel" <hotchip@bignet.net> said:

>GURPS is no better.  One reason I have never bought a GURPS product is the
>boring type and unbroken paragraphs of plain text.

I *like* the look of most the GURPS products, and I've bought several.  The
typefaces they use are easy to read and effective. Their layout is
utilitarian, not arty, just right for a manual. There isn't much art, but
what there is fits the subject and conveys a good feel for it without being
distracting. Many of the GURPS books, like the CT books, can be described
as being plain and utilitarian, but I'd say they are elegant and easy to
use. Of course, I'm not a graphic artist, just a GM and player...that buys
games.  

Wasn't it Joe Walsh that said, "I don't know art, but I know what I
like."..or was that Ken Bearden? ;->

>Call me superficial but at least 50% of my reason for buying a new game is
>based on how it looks.

Ok, you are...no that would too easy! ;-> (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Actually, I agree with you that the way a gamebook looks is very important.
We, probably, disagree on what "look" we're looking for, though. Cover Art
*might* make me pick it up, but content is what sells it to me.

I want clear well-written text in an easy to read font..IMO, a boring TmsRm
or Century Schoolbook is *good* for a body font.  I want examples, lots of
them, set off in italics and blocked with the rules they describe. I want
tables and formula with the text to which they refer, and large and easy to
read. I want a good TOC and an index. I want background, adventures and
designer notes, but I *don't* want them mixed in with rules, put each in
its own section. I don't want much art, and what there is should be small
B/W line art that illustrates the content.  Those are the things I look for
in a gamebook.  


Eris,
    an old Grognard that *liked* AH wargame rulebooks! ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:30:16 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

On 12/14/97 at 03:25 PM,  "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com> said:
> We came to the conclusion that you could dump the rules and keep the
setting  
> and still have Traveller. And you could keep the rules and dump the  setting
> and still have Traveller. But you can't dump *both* and still have
Traveller. 

Eris (eris@pen.net) wrote:
> I'd have probably agreed with you, though. The only thing is, we might
> disagree on what constitutes "the setting."  

Here's an evil data point from "The Terrorist on the TML" (that's me!):

Quite a while ago, I was running gaming at a local Trek convention, and was 
asked to run a Star Trek RPG session.  "Sure thing!" I said like a fool,
planning on pulling an all-nighter and make up an adventure somehow.  Of 
course, I had my Traveller stuff with me, too.

I didn't create something new, so I grabbed one of the good old Classic 
Traveller Double Adventures: Chamax Plague / Horde.  The set up was that the 
PCs were the command crew of a "Classic Trek" era city-class frigate (the USS 
Baltimore, I believe), assigned to border patrol duties.  They were to patrol 
Federation colonies on the frontier and assist survey parties as required.

A survey party in a shuttlecraft put down on Chamax to conduct a detailed
survey of the world before colonization, while the Baltimore patrolled
nearby.  The shuttlecraft sent a subspace "mayday", but went off the air 
before the ship could reach them.

After taking enough time for the PCs to get thoroughly sick of the Chamax
bugs (and kill a few redshirts in good Trek style, for some odd reason
the bugs seem to be immune to phasers on 'stun'), I had a distress call
come in from a nearby colony world that was "under attack" (giving the PCs
a good excuse to fight their way clear of the Chamax and beam up), and
moving on to the "Horde" portion of the adventure, when the Chamax bugs
attack a human-inhabited world.

I had to do a little conniving so that the PCs wouldn't just phaser and 
photon torpedo the peninsula from orbit until it was glassed over, so I
put some important cities and infrastructure (the colony's only
desalinization plant, for example) there.

The PCs had a ball fighting bugs and saving the colony.  And despite my
best efforts eventually did call for phasers from orbit (and nearly got
clobbered by their own orbital fire).

Then they got to chase down the dozen-odd _other_ Chamax escape fleets, and
sort out the bug-infested ones from the ones with sentients in cold sleep.

All in all, fairly successful.

But was it Traveller?  I kept the adventure pretty much as written, making
allowances for the different rules system.


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2162
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 16 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2163



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Can of worms....
Re: Can of worms....
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2159
Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
Re: Journal Death
Re: alien
Re: Animals (was Re: So he tried again )
Re: Traveller and Nanotech
Re: Can of worms....
Re: (Hi thrust + armour = obscene cost) and more PAWs
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: [TTL] Re: near-c rock fix proposal (fwd)
Re: Can of worms....
re: FF&S2 Observations
Re: Alien Resurrection - has spoilers
Nanotech
re: Traveller Combat System slow
Playtest Help Wanted
Re:  [TTL] Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
Doug Said Great Wisdom
Re: Alien Resurrection
Re: Nanotech

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:42:03 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

>My bet is that they wanted single hex planets for Mayday gravity rules and
>this has stuck. Remember the first Traveller spacecombat rules with planet
>templates and lasers almost totally unaffected by range? Did anybody us
>them? As for that matter, did anybody use the MT gridbased spacecombat
>system that surely must be one of the most screwed up ass backwards
>interpretations of newtonian movement ever.

Well, at least then the long ranges make sense.  I was a little confused as to
why they would pick such a system that was so completely against the grain of
a good deal of sci-fi...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:00:51 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

>The "ultra short range" combats shown in just about *every* SF movie
>and TV program are incredibly unrealistic. Any sort of *real* space
>combat (except with extremely fuel limited rockets in orbit around a
>planet) will *have* to be at ranges far outside visual ranmge (and you
>can see a ship a lot farther than you might think)

You know, when I posted my first technological conservatism message about two
weeks ago, I started to suspect that there people don't actually read
messages, or at least mine (which I can understand, as I tend to have long
messages, sometimes *I'm* not in the mood to read my own messages).

However, now I know that some people don't read my messages.  It seems as if
you're starting to tear my head off here, and you're repeating what I said in
the original message!  Amazing.  Amazing.

I said that the close combat in movies probably wouldn't be all that
realistic.

Okay, now you've got my interest, WHY does space combat _have_ to be at super
long range, especially when you have to extend the ranges of weapons to do so
in the first place.  From a romantic perspective, its terrible.  From a
scientific perspective, it seems unrealistic, so where's the middle ground?

>Combat at shorter ranges and lower speeds would *require* the party
>being attacked to *consent* to the attack by letting the other guy get
>that close.

To look at it that way, I guess you could say that about _any_ combat, and of
course, just like in real life, the side with the longer range and better
accuracy is going to kick butt.  Of course, its not that way with real combat,
there's stealth, and jamming, and long range weapons, just like there are in
Traveller space combat.

>And Traveller combat isn't all *that* long range. Over on
>rec.arts.sf.science, we've had threads discussing "near future" space
>combat that had attacks taking place at multiple AU ranges. 
>
>The key to *those* was that the vessels had to conserve fuel and stick
>to Hohmann transfer orbits (in other words, to be sitting ducks for
>*months* at a time).

May be realistic, but not terribly interesting for Traveller space combat.  So
in this case, since Traveller is a game, lets shelve realism on this point.
Travel between worlds already takes a long time, combats lasting several
months would really stretch things to the limit.

>It's not "technological conservatism". It's the laws of phsyics. Combat
>ranges are determined by propulsion technology as well as weapons tech.

Of course combat ranges are determined by both propulsion and weapons tech.
And no it isn't technological conservatism, but it is related in the sense it
seems to be a holdover from an earlier time of Traveller.  Just asking, no
need to take a super arrogant tone.

Geez.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:35:47 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2159

>There is a difference between setting and game. My point in my earlier post
>was that Traveller is not so utterly dependent on it's particular set of
>game mechanics, that you can't port it into another system and still have
>it "feel" like Traveller.

I will tend to disagree.  Traveller is, in my opinion, as much based on the
mechanics as the background.  In fact, I think it is more the mechanics then
the background.

Traveller is to me:

Traveller is, first and foremost in my mind, a character generation system.
The ability to actually have a history before the character plays one second
is great.  That's the single thing I remember liking the most when I was a wee
pup checking out my older brother's "Traveller Book".  It gave the game more
of a Star Wars type feel, where everyone had different backgrounds and skills
and abilities.

Second, and this is important, the mechanics _must_ be simple enough to come
up with a large number of things on the fly, and must be able to be recorded
simply.  The world of Traveller can have an infinite number of world,
subsector, and sector combinations.  Animals and random encounter tables must
be able to be made and recorded easily.  Mainworld data, same thing.  You must
be able to do everything "on the bounce and by the numbers".

Third is the library data.  Not the actual material contained in the data, but
the whole concept itself.  An everchanging library of information, that keeps
expanding with every book and supplement.

These are the things, not the type of ftl drive used, nor the technology, nor
the background, nor even the Imperium are Traveller.  Traveller is the ability
to come up with an infinite amount of situations in the shortest possible
time.

Mind you, before anyone opens the floodgates of flame, these are my opinions.
I'm not saying that they are absolutely right, nor am I saying everyone else
is wrong.  I first discovered Traveller back just about the beginning of the
"golden age" of RPGs, about 1982.  My brother bought the Traveller Book and
Adventure 1: The Kinunir.  That was where I originally got the "feel" of
Traveller.  I had no universe, I had nothing but those two books.  I made up
subsectors and sectors, I made alien races, I populated worlds, I fleshed out
the short adventures in the back of the book, made maps, etc.  Certain things
stuck with me.  About 5 or 6 years later, I bought an early errata laden
version of Megatraveller.  There was too much stuff, I was completely turned
off.  I wasn't expecting _that much_ information, in many cases incomplete or
incorrect.  It collected dust, but I and my older brother kept generating
characters, and equipping them, and naming them.  I kept building subsectors
and sectors and designing starships and vehicles.  These things eventually
added themselves to important status in the Traveller universe.  When I
eventually got TNE, I was kind of disappointed.  They screwed with the system,
removed much of the stuff I knew about, and changed all the other stuff I knew
about.  Traveller took so much more time at that point.  The book was so thick
with background and stuff that all the imagination of making your own universe
just got sucked right out.  Everything was in a framework, and tied in with a
storyline...

When the Traveller Book just had the Imperium and info tacked on at the very
end.  You had a whole universe to invent all on your own.  TNE was faced with
closed borders and a massive history...

I like the background for all the games.  I don't like how the background has
overtaken the game though, and that's bad.  It drives away new players, and
tends to anger old players and alienate them.  I was so hopeful for TNE after
FF&S1.  They told you how things were done in the original Traveller and
MegaTraveller universes, told you what they changed and why, and then, here's
the clinker, gave you ideas for other ways to do the same thing.

That was really cool.

But, all this is just my opinion for what its worth, and now I'm rambling.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 23:22:00 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

On 12/15/97 at 11:30 PM,  Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said:

>On 12/14/97 at 03:25 PM,  "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com> said:
>> We came to the conclusion that you could dump the rules and keep the
>setting  
>> and still have Traveller. And you could keep the rules and dump the  setting
>> and still have Traveller. But you can't dump *both* and still have
>Traveller. 

>Eris (eris@pen.net) wrote:
>> I'd have probably agreed with you, though. The only thing is, we might
>> disagree on what constitutes "the setting."  

>Here's an evil data point from "The Terrorist on the TML" (that's me!):

>Quite a while ago, I was running gaming at a local Trek convention, and
>was  asked to run a Star Trek RPG session.  "Sure thing!" I said like a
>fool, planning on pulling an all-nighter and make up an adventure somehow. 
>Of  course, I had my Traveller stuff with me, too.

<big snip!>

>All in all, fairly successful.

>But was it Traveller?  I kept the adventure pretty much as written,
>making allowances for the different rules system.

In your mind, did you call it Traveller?  If you did it was...IMO.

Me, I'd have called it Star Trek, played in the Traveller fashion..or more
likely not bothered to call it anything except a game. ;->


Eris,
    who still likes the Aetheral screw drive 
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:57:59 -0600
From: Mike Marchi <mjm@42north.org>
Subject: Re: Journal Death

douglas wrote:

<snipped the introduction of a very articulate proposition>

> Get the stuff that you are not going to support off of it (i.e. Citizens and
> Journal Submissions).  If you are having difficulty keeping to your published
> schedules, don't put specific dates, don't make promises that can't be kept
> (we
> remember).  Keep the site simple and easy to download.  Put GM aids on the
> site
> - not just commercials for your products.  Make it worthwhile to visit!

<trimmed some specifics>

> Make the website do the job that the Journal should do - i.e. be the method
> with
> which you can provide a consistant framework for GM's to build their campaigns
>
> in.

I completely agree.  A show of support for the product line in general might go
a long way toward dispelling these rumors about IG's impending demise.
Traveller is so much more than that stack of T4 books.  The game has a rich
history.  Imperium Games should embrace that history (or is it the future),
instead of pretending Milieu 0 (200, 400, etc...) is the only game in town!

- --
Mike Marchi

*   My WebPage:  http://www.42north.org/~mjm/roleplay/Traveller.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:17:31 -0600
From: Mike Marchi <mjm@42north.org>
Subject: Re: alien

Don Stark wrote:

> Mike Marchi wrote:
> >
> > The old JTAS (Issue #4) contained an article in "The Bestiary" section
> I'd forgotten about this one. In terms of game play this would be less cruel
> to pull on players.

If anyone wants the Classic Traveller stats to the Alien from JTAS #4, let me
know, and I'll post them.

> So if you don't believe that the creature was a natural occurance that was
> transported off its home world by mistake, there is still the question of
> who would build such a weapon? Could grandfather's conflict have unleashed
> something along these lines? Perhaps it was a mistake that got loose? A
> side in the conflict that sees it has nothing left to lose (for example
> the builders of the Berserker ships) might create something that is guaranteed
>
> to take the other side with it. What about the psychological value of
> threatening to unleash such a creature?

The thing I like best about Traveller, is that GM's can tailor aspects of their
universe to fit almost any adventure they would like to run.  If they want to
run an adventure with Alien(s) in it, then they can.  And if they want the
Aliens to be bio-weapons they can be.  If they want them to be evolved they can
do that too.  We could all argue our opinions on this until we're blue in the
fingers, and it won't change the essential fact, that when it comes to how a
GM's universe works, the GM has the final say.  And there's nothing wrong with
that!  I say, let canon be damned (it's all invented nonsense anyway)!  Since
most players know most of the "real" Alien story, a GM could probably benefit
from "modifying" the specifics of the creature to keep the players guessing.

Like Hicks said, "I say we go back to the ship and nuke the site from orbit.
It's the only way to be sure."  Or is it?  Besides, where's the bloody sport in
that?  ;)

- --
Mike Marchi

*   My WebPage:  http://www.42north.org/~mjm/roleplay/Traveller.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:31:21 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Animals (was Re: So he tried again )

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote

> Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com> Brian wrote:
> 
> >How do you determine a target number for an animal attack in T4???  I can't
> >find the rules anywhere.  I can find damage dice, but that's it.
> >
> >This question is really haunting me, so if anyone has a clue, I'd greatly
> >appreciate it.
> 
> Not an official IG answer, but in the forthcoming 101 Lifeforms we are
> using a Target Number of 10, and task dice of 2D in native ecosystem
> against natural prey, and 3D for non-natural situations. (Approx 92% and
> 50% respectively).

These numbers seem _unrealistically_ high.  IIRC wolves have about a 10
to 15% success rate in bringing down moose despite the fact that they
use pack tactics (ie gang up on) the moose.  Of course this covers the
sneak up close to the moose, chase the moose down, don't get kicked to
death by the moose, bite the moose, hurt the moose, slow the moose, and
kill the moose and not merely the - bite the moose - task that a single
animal attack in Traveller represents.  Maybe moose have dodge pools and
use their (Str 17 or so) strength pools to reroll their dammage dice to
hurt the wolves more.

Remember the carnivores do not have to win very often they only have to
win often enough to stay fed.  If the pack can stay fed for 3 or 4 days
on one moose and each attempt to hunt and kill a moose takes only a few
minutes or hours the wolves can afford to fail most of the time - as
long as the moose population density is high enough that the wolves can
try again.  The herbivores only get to fail once but as long as they are
breeding well enough the species won't miss the individual.

I am aware that wolves normally hunt prey somewhat smaller than moose
and I suspect that they probably have a somewhat higher rate of sucsess
but I think that a 92% rate is way too high.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:11:40 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Nanotech

Michael Kent wrote:
> 
> I've been reading the 'Technological Conservatism' messages with
> interest.  Here's my take on nanotech and why it's not widespread in the
> Third Imperium: it's been banned by the Imperium.  Just add to your
> Imperial Encyclopedia some entries detailing a few gruesome accidents
> involving runaway nanotech.  Add a couple of red-zone quarantined worlds
> turned to goo (or such) by nanotech replicators.  Hence the
> Imperium-wide ban.
> 
> Of course, this method leaves open the possibility that the PCs will
> come across some kind of illegal nanotech in the course of an adventure,
> while at the same time limiting the impact of widespread nanotech.


Excellant idea, and makes for many cool scenario ideas.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:47:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

In mail you write:

> My bet is that they wanted single hex planets for Mayday gravity rules and
> this has stuck. Remember the first Traveller spacecombat rules with planet
> templates and lasers almost totally unaffected by range? Did anybody us
> them?

Yep! We did.

And actually, the hex size was set by the turn length and the
aceleration "granularity".

Triplanetary (the predecessor of Mayday) actually *had* multi-hex
planets as I recall. Or maybe that was a close approach to the Sun?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:14:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: (Hi thrust + armour = obscene cost) and more PAWs

In mail you write:

>>Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:10:22 PST
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>Subject: Re: PAWs
>>
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>> a military-grade (circa 50 megajoule) PAW is going to do bad things to
>>> radiation-sensitive equipment and unshielded people.
>>>
>>> I can definitly see it shorting out most everything electronic and killing
>>> most of the people aboard.
>>
>>Don't forget that these are *neutral* particle beams. And that the hull
>>makes a damn good Faraday cage.
>
> D'oh ... this is what happens when you are relying on 10 year old
> high-school physics *grin* You will still do crew casualties, though, right ?

Sure. The particles will kick up *lots* of secondariy particles as they
plow into the hull. That will tend to fry electronics due to messing up
PN junctions in semiconductors. And kill crew due to radiation damage of
cells.

>>Now if someone comes up with a PAW that fires a nice "heavy" beam of
>>*neutrons*, then you'll have some interesting effects.
>
> I'm not a physics geek ... but could you build a PAW by getting hydrogen
> with extra neutrons (deuterium), charging it, accelerating it down the
> tube, and then neutralising the particle ?

Easier to just use regular hydrogen. That give you a beam of protons
until you add electrons, at which point you get hydrogen again.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:54:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>In mail you write:
> [snip][
>>> When's GenCon again?  Or this Arisia thing?  I ain't never been 86'ed from
>>> a sci-fi convention before...
>>
>>Uhmmm, kenji? Pardon me, but I was under the impression that you were
>>*already* equipped with a phallus. Or are you of the female persuasion?
>>:-)
>
> My birth certificate said "female", my passport says "male".  I try to stay
> out of it -- it gets ugly.

Ah! Like the guy I heard about who, after a long fight, got a driver's
license with "O" listed for "Sex".

> Right!  I'm reminded of another basic, fundamental question of the
> Traveller universe which is yet to be resolved, and which some members of
> the list will no doubt find in poor taste.  Does the Third Imperium have
> sex-segregated public lavatories?  How?

I dunno about sex segregated, but they'll have to be *species*
segregated. Humans and vargr can probably use each other's facilities
(though the vargr will have problems with their tails). Aslan can
probably use human or vargr facilities as well, though size differences
might be a problem. 

But there's no way a K'kree or a Hiver can use human facilities or each
other's. Ditto for lots of other "non humanoid" races.

BTW, there's a lot of variation in the "facilities" used in "civilized"
countries right here on Earth. Consider the bidet, and the "Turkish"
toilet. These can come as quite a suprise when visiting another country.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:40:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TTL] Re: near-c rock fix proposal (fwd)

In mail, trav-tech@qrc.com writes:

> Sent the following to the TML earlier today, but wanted to loft it with
> the ubergearheads here as well...
>
> ***
>
>> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:34:49 PST
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> 
>> The only way to not carry reaction mass *and* to obey conservation laws
>> is to keep pushing on the *same* object (planet or star). And in that
>> case, the fact that you are now pushing on something that *isn't "at
>> rest" with respect to the drive changes everything.
>
> Hmmmm...how about *this* weird idea:
>
> The thruster drive uses [insert handwave here] to 'find' nearby particles
> that are more or less at rest relative to the drive, and pushes them
> backward for thrust.  This has several interesting effects:
>
> 1. For low velocities inside a star system, one can postulate that there
>    will always be enough matter near enough and motionless enough for
>    the drive to push against.  Zodiacal dust, solar wind, and so forth
>    come to mind; simple thermal noise should have a lot of stuff moving
>    in all directions at a broad range of (star-relative) velocities.

Alas, because of the *small* amount of such matter, you'll have to push
it to almost c to get the required thrust. That makes your "exhaust"
dangerous as hell for quite some distance (in effect, it's a huge
particle accelerator). 

Also, this immediately brings to mind the question "why not hook up a
*powerful* thruster plate, aim" it at the enemy ship and then dump in a
few kilos of sand?" This would give the other ship a near-c
sandblasting. And probably destroy it.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:21:27 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

>And actually, the hex size was set by the turn length and the
>aceleration "granularity".

Whenever I make spacecombat systems (there has been a few over the years) I
always choose my hex/square scale first and calculate turn length from
that.
Why was Maydays turnlength fixed beforehand as you imply?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:42:37 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: FF&S2 Observations

Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net> wrote:

>I've been messing around with FF&S2 again, trying to design a ship for
>my campaign world...

<snip>

>Now I understand that the above is the realistic model - but I have to
>admit that it's bugging me that I'm having a hard time recreating some
>classic ships and having their crews and/or price be even remotely close
>(this SDB needs a crew of 32...18 being engineers, for the drive and
>power plant).
>
>Does anyone have any opinions on the matter?


Use High Guard/Book 2 and convert with Rob Flammang's system?

Dom (temporarily verging on heretic)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:16:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alien Resurrection - has spoilers

Can't stand it any more -- I have to reply to this thread.

On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, SD Mooney wrote:

> Resurrection - Average Sci-Fi/Horror. Just copied the originals for plots
> and scenes. Didn't have the decency to be bad.

Unless you count cliches as bad -- that basket-case baby alien made it an
automatic B-movie in my book, no matter how much they spent on it.  I
can't even count the number of times that I've seen that cliche on video. 
They were obviously desparate for new material.  Do they think they're the
only people who watch Monster Vision?

Door prize question:  how many atmospheres of pressure does it take to
pulverize Alien bones into pieces small enough to get sucked into space
through a 10 cm hole? 


Clark

(oh Gawd -- here it comes... ;)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:13:30 +0000
From: Tim Crowfoot <tcrowfoot@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Nanotech

Greetings to the list.

I'd like to incorporate this nano stuff into my campaign.

Anyone out there aware of a game/sourcebook listing numerous
applications and effects or a "real world" book that could give me
something to chew on?

Thanks

Tim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:24:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Traveller Combat System slow

Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:

>I've been getting feedback that the combat rules we use are just too
>Vargr-gone slow. So, please answer the following questions:
>
>1. Do you think that Traveller combat takes too long?

T4 / T4.1 not at all. Fastest Traveller rules I remember - maybe the
players should try Spacemaster or Shadowrun or the GDW House System or Blue
Planet to see what slow is...

>2. If yes, do you think that it's the hand-to-hand rules that are the
>problem?
>
>3. If yes (to #1), do you think it's the direct fire (i.e. gun) rules
>that are the problem?
>
>4. If yes (to #1), does the problem lie with knowing whose turn it is in
>a single combat round? Would making all combat simultaneous work better?

Do it on Dex order and make them sit in order ;-)

Doom

>Your thoughts and opinions are awaited!

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:32:10 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Playtest Help Wanted

Anyone out there interested in doing some playtesting/proofreading/critical
analysis of a set of RPG rules I'm doing (the actual background is still having
finishing touches being worked on)?

Drop me a line if you are. 

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:41:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re:  [TTL] Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
> In your mind, did you call it Traveller?  If you did it was...IMO.
> 
> Me, I'd have called it Star Trek

I called it Star Trek (this was, after all, a Trek convention, and
proportedly a Trek RPG session).


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:46:26 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Doug Said Great Wisdom

Doug said...Make the website do the job that the Journal should do - i.e. be
the method with
which you can provide a consistant framework for GM's to build their
campaigns in.

Take a loook at Pinnacle's Deadlands; they publish minor new rules,
background and adventures on their website (new one each week). This is
their first game and it works. Perhaps IG should look at some newcomers
rather than relying on the past

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:38:52 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Alien Resurrection

SD Mooney writes:
>I really wasn't impressed with this.

I loved it. Especially Winnoa Ryder's boots. Whoa!
Sigourney Weaver was just _so_ cool.

>Sort of like your average Traveller Gunbunnies wander
>through a base, shooting the nasties and escaping at the end....
Part of why I loved it. If I could run a Traveller session that
grabbed you and dragged you along, with all the twists,
like that film, my life would be complete...

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:46:32 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Nanotech

On 16 Dec 97, Tim Crowfoot disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by 
writing:

> I'd like to incorporate this nano stuff into my campaign.
> 
> Anyone out there aware of a game/sourcebook listing numerous
> applications and effects or a "real world" book that could give me
> something to chew on?

The nanotech classic: Neal Stephenson's "Diamond Age". 

Chew on that, Imperial scum! (Sorry, wrong game. <sheepish grin>)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
 Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO; 
 FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
  Forget the notes and play the music. 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2163
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 16 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2164



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2162
The Geonee maker moves to Vienna
Re: Playtest Help Wanted
Trav Cbt System
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Can of Worms
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Traveller and Nanotech
Re: Traveller Combat System slow
Re: Nanotech
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2162
Re: Recoil experiments
Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?
Re: The Journal Death
Re: Technological conservatism.
Re: Alien Resurrection SPOILER
Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?
Real Men & Recoil...
Re: Playtest Help Wanted
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?
Re: Playtest Help Wanted
Re: Can of worms....
Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:38:57 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2162

> I didn't create something new, so I grabbed one of the good old Classic 
> Traveller Double Adventures: Chamax Plague / Horde.  The set up was that the 
> PCs were the command crew of a "Classic Trek" era city-class frigate (the USS 
> Baltimore, I believe), assigned to border patrol duties.  They were to patrol 
> Federation colonies on the frontier and assist survey parties as required.

This is cool :) Those adventures are my second favorite published CT
adventures, right behind Signal GK. And while I never ran it, I also
thought about using it with Star Trek :) Still have the notes I made on
converting the animals, in fact.

I would not say it was Traveller, however . I would say it was a damn good
Star Trek adventure, though ;) better than most of the ones they did.

I'm going to very shortly be turning "Murder on Arcturus Station" into a
Babylon Project adventure. You know, those old Traveller scenarios must be
pretty good, if they can be used in so many different games :)

Allen Shock

P.S. There's an interesting subject: what adventures from other games would
make good Traveller adventures? i can think of one right off the top of my
head; "Stardemon", written by Greg Porter and published by Steve jackson
games for GURPS Space.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:36:43 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: The Geonee maker moves to Vienna

        Hi! I've been some months out of the list to all practical purposes,
due to the fact that I am going to change countries, from Spain to Austria.
Nevertheless, I still keep thinking about the always-slowly-progressing
Geonee sourcebook.
        Sorry for wasting bandwidth, but, since I will be in Vienna from
beginnings of January, I would like to know if there are any austrians
around in the TML (Question: Any FLGS in Vienna?).

        My email address(es):

        Until the end of the year: alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
        From January on: Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at

        Thanx!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:34:51 -0600
From: Scott Galliand <galliand@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Playtest Help Wanted

At 13:32 12/16/97 GMT, you wrote:
>Anyone out there interested in doing some playtesting/proofreading/critical
>analysis of a set of RPG rules I'm doing (the actual background is still having
>finishing touches being worked on)?
>
>Drop me a line if you are. 

I'm interested.  Send 'em along.

Scott Galliand

Scott Galliand
Systems Analyst, Systems Engineering and Management Associates, Inc.
E-mail : galliand@ix.netcom.com
WWW : http://www.io.com/~galliand/  (NOT BACK ONLINE YET)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:00:07 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Trav Cbt System

I use this 'fix': All rules as before, except that it's a 2-second round
and all actions are simultaneous unless someone does something clever like
taking on a pike with his knife (or an ACR with his pike). 

Characters can also go for to-hit penalties in order to shoot sooner. Wild
Bill would disapprove of this, but some people like to try it....

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:03:31 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

>>Just before the list went down, I posted a fairly detailed letter about the
>>Aliens and the bioweapon origins, which I will try to repost (more or less
in
>>spirit).
>
>This was really interesting (IMHO) -- thanks!

No problem.  Good to see my youth as a film geek got me somewhere in life
(besides getting all the in-jokes in Scream).

>AHA!  The aliens from Double Adventure 1 (?), _Shadows_!!!!

Yeah, I guess that there is sort of a parallel there.  I've always wondered
about the aliens in Shadows.  Are they still out there?  Do they have jump
drive yet?  Are they empire builders?

Y'know, the typical stuff :)

>A cattle-based alien... scary.  It moos and chews its victims slowly,
>circulating the masticated bits through five acid-dripping stomachs.  Its
>flatulence contaminates the atmosphere, slowly converting it to Petrified
>Elephant Man standard...

But, we have a bio-weapon of our own to use!  Mad cow disease!  Of course we
wouldn't be able to chomp down alien steaks afterwards...  But hey, one thing
at a time.

>I'm liking the Alien more and more.  As an alternative to Virus (weird
>silicon-based life form found infesting a planet in the Solomani Rim,
>turned into weapon and accidentally released) they have Trav possibilities.
>Besides, the idea of the Sayat discovering and trying to civilize them
>kinda tickles my funnybone.  "That's not consensual.  I think you ought to
>apologise."  "Naughty THWAP! Share your prey!"

I like virus from another angle.  Up until recently I never knew that Virus
was supposed to be a silicon based life-form that was _found_.  I didn't have
survival margin, and there's no mention of that in any of the other TNE books
that I have.  I just figured that it was just a nasty virus that was amazingly
adaptive, and at one point had been extremely deadly.  I liked the idea of and
emergent sentience at war with the remnants of the old Imperium though.

Now, if you do use the DNA "splicing" abilities of the alien, here are a few
thoughts to chew on:

An Aslan-alien would be pretty nasty.
An Ithklur-alien would be far more frightening.
A Hiver-alien would be...  amusing.
A K'Kree-alien might not be very terrifying ("Captain, he's eating all of our
lettuce!")
<I feel bad.  Everyone swipes at the poor Centaurs.>

Oh, one last bit of Alien trivia:

Q:  Where was the idea for the alien cleanly swiped from?

A:  _Voyage of the Space-Beagle_ by E.E. Doc Smith I believe if I remember
right.  There was a critter called an Ixtl that was one of a degenerate race.
They had eggs that could be implanted in a host and then would eat their way
out.  The one in the book was the last of the species, the others had killed
themselves in a nuclear war.  Unlike the alien though, these guys servived on
"energy" and could move through solid objects.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:14:43 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Can of Worms

>Beam combat would only take place between consenting (adult) ships; missiles
>would dominate completely. Not to say it isn't interesting to play that way - kind of
>like playing Triplanetary with unlimited fuel - but Traveller wanted beams and
>missiles to be comparable in performance.

This is the kind of answer I was looking for.  Clean and concise and easily
understandable.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:23:18 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

>I dunno about sex segregated, but they'll have to be *species*
>segregated. Humans and vargr can probably use each other's facilities
>(though the vargr will have problems with their tails). Aslan can
>probably use human or vargr facilities as well, though size differences
>might be a problem. 

I sort of ran into this problem in the adventure I'm currently writing for my
party.  It is an Ancient research complex.  What would droyne-like toilets
look like?  I've finally settled on round hollow stools with a small support
for the lower back.  Each would be set a bit away from the walls because of
the wings.

Droyne beds, on the other hand, are more confusing.  I've settled on a perch
that runs around the perimeter of the room and is set 1 to 1.5 meters off the
floor, in the barracks for the warriors the perch is higher then in the
barracks for the other types.

Still though.  A perplexing problem.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:05:25 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Nanotech

Michael Kent wrote:

> Of course, this method leaves open the possibility that the PCs will
> come across some kind of illegal nanotech in the course of an adventure,
> while at the same time limiting the impact of widespread nanotech.

  This is one of the subplots in my campaign right now. Born from a feeling
of "that T2 thing was too cool to ignore", I created a robot that looks like
the T1000 creature from that movie but is really composed of tiny robots. Up
close, there is a definite grainy texture to the appearance of the thing. I
won't give away more details, in case any of my players read this list, but
it's been the cause of a few adventures.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:06:12 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Combat System slow

Oooops, sorry. This was supposed to go out to the players, not to the TML.
My apologies.

Erwin Fritz wrote:

> I've been getting feedback that the combat rules we use are just too
> Vargr-gone slow. So, please answer the following questions:
>
> 1. Do you think that Traveller combat takes too long?
>
> 2. If yes, do you think that it's the hand-to-hand rules that are the
> problem?
>
> 3. If yes (to #1), do you think it's the direct fire (i.e. gun) rules
> that are the problem?
>
> 4. If yes (to #1), does the problem lie with knowing whose turn it is in
> a single combat round? Would making all combat simultaneous work better?
>
> Your thoughts and opinions are awaited!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:55:28 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Nanotech

>On 16 Dec 97, Tim Crowfoot disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
>writing:
>
>> I'd like to incorporate this nano stuff into my campaign.
>>
>> Anyone out there aware of a game/sourcebook listing numerous
>> applications and effects or a "real world" book that could give me
>> something to chew on?
>
>The nanotech classic: Neal Stephenson's "Diamond Age".
>
>Chew on that, Imperial scum! (Sorry, wrong game. <sheepish grin>)

Neals book (very good read) is SF - not real world book. Read "Engines of
creation" or better yet the other bmore recent book (forgot its name) from
that Drexler guy (godfather of nano).

GURPS is releasing GURPS Biotech just now that might be interesting but
judging from GURPS Robots and GURPS Ultra-tech-II their nanostuff is more
like magic spells than real world stuff (just as Neal Stephensons is). If
you're going to incorporate nanos please consider some limitations to the
tech such as cryogenic requirements (the assemblers are destroyed if above
say 100 Kelvin) or that the actual nanites are degraded over time from
thermal disruption, UV-light or whatever. If you don't pu reasonable
limitations on nano aside from HUGE price your players will wonder "why
isn't everything nano if it is so good?"


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:43:55 -0600
From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2162

On 12/15/97 at 07:40 PM,  "Nathan & Terri Mezel" <hotchip@bignet.net> said:

>GURPS is no better.  One reason I have never bought a GURPS product is the
>boring type and unbroken paragraphs of plain text.

Wow. I completely disagree. Seven or so years ago, GURPS wasn't great, as
far as looks went, but artwork and layout seems to have become a priority
since then, with GURPS: Goblins being one of the prettiest books I've
*ever* seen.

Few GURPS releases have disappointed me since, say, 1992 or so...

John Kovalic


**************************************************
       "This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
                                              - Arthur Dent
**************************************************
                                       "Wild Life": a Web comic -
        at MUSKRAT CENTRAL: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/muskrat/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:38:34 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
[snip]
>> My birth certificate said "female", my passport says "male".  I try to stay
>> out of it -- it gets ugly.
>
>Ah! Like the guy I heard about who, after a long fight, got a driver's
>license with "O" listed for "Sex".

<G>  Er, well, not exactly, but maybe not entirely dissimilar...

>> Right!  I'm reminded of another basic, fundamental question of the
>> Traveller universe which is yet to be resolved, and which some members of
>> the list will no doubt find in poor taste.  Does the Third Imperium have
>> sex-segregated public lavatories?  How?
>
>I dunno about sex segregated, but they'll have to be *species*
>segregated. Humans and vargr can probably use each other's facilities
>(though the vargr will have problems with their tails). Aslan can
>probably use human or vargr facilities as well, though size differences
>might be a problem.
>
>But there's no way a K'kree or a Hiver can use human facilities or each
>other's. Ditto for lots of other "non humanoid" races.
>
>BTW, there's a lot of variation in the "facilities" used in "civilized"
>countries right here on Earth. Consider the bidet, and the "Turkish"
>toilet. These can come as quite a suprise when visiting another country.

I remember in China in the late '70s being shown "Western-style" toilets at
a newly-reopened tourist site:  one trench for men, one trench for women.

But public restrooms nowadays are effectively segregated by social
presentation of gender, not by anatomical sex.  How the Imperium handles
this is what I'm wondering.  One single facility that everyone uses,
all-are-equal-before-the-porcelain-emperor?  One restroom for Imperial
citizens and one for non-citizens?


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:10:51 +0000
From: twolf@unix.tfs.net
Subject: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?

> Kagehira wrote:
> 
> >       The Journal is not dead, but has been suspended for an indefinite
> > period....At this point.
> >
> > Bryan
> 
> >From where I sit, that is to say an active GM using the T4 system, there is no
> difference.
 
> So, allow me to propose a solution.  The website has a lot of promise and can be
> relatively simple to maintain.  Hell, Word can do most of the HTML coding - you
> just have to work on design and content.  Then use a text editor to remove the
> MS specific garbage, and clean up the page for the various browsers that hit
> your site.
> 
>
I believe that IG doesn't have anyone that controls there website 
currently.  That is why it hasn't been updated in 6 months.

I have a better solution. Why not do up a JTAS website of our own. 
There are several very smart and highly motivated individuals on the 
list.  Let's get Marc's blessing and do are own electronic magazine 
on the web.  Heaven knows we have the talent on the list to do it.

I propose a new thread to discuss it.

JD
Twolf
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:59:19 EST
From: Dedly <Dedly@aol.com>
Subject: Re: The Journal Death

>>Make the website do the job that the Journal should do - i.e. be the method with
which you can provide a consistant framework for GM's to build their campaigns
in.<<

EXACTLY!! I would've thought this would be obvious to IG but judging by how
they maintain the site now I guess it isn't.

\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:20:49 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Technological conservatism.

In a message dated 97-12-15 15:03:14 EST, starcity@sk.sympatico.ca writes:

<< Interesting! I wish I had a LLB to check for that comment... :)  >>

In my copy of the LBB (Book 2, copyright 1977, pages 5-6) I quote the
following text:  

     "A power plant, to provide power for one trip (internal power, manuever
drive, power and other necessities)requires fuel in accordance with the
formula:  10Pn....A fully fueled power plant will enable a starship an
effectively unlimited number of accelerations (at least 288) if necessary to
use the maneuver drive during the trip (as when miniatures combat is used to
resolve a ship to ship encounter."

It also goes on to state the following:

     "Fuel is also used in the maneuver drive of non-starships.  When used in
vessels displacing under 100 tons...10 kilograms (1/100th of a ton)of fuel is
sufficient for 1G of acceleration for 10 minutes."

Maybe there is something here we can carry over to T4...

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:31:07 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Alien Resurrection SPOILER

SPOILER.




SPOILER.





SPOILER.






Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote

>SD Mooney writes:
>>I really wasn't impressed with this.
>I loved it. Especially Winnoa Ryder's boots. Whoa!

WR was one of the high points of the film  I loved the 'Synthetic designed
Synthetic' idea. And wasn't CAT subtle with the logo...

>Sigourney Weaver was just _so_ cool.

"Cold" was the phrase I would have used...

>>Sort of like your average Traveller Gunbunnies wander
>>through a base, shooting the nasties and escaping at the end....
>Part of why I loved it. If I could run a Traveller session that
>grabbed you and dragged you along, with all the twists,
>like that film, my life would be complete...

But it *didn't* grab *me*. The third time they've done that bloody airlock
routine... and it was very superficial.

Perhaps my players have spent too long in restaurants.... it just had too
little depth, and the humour just made it worse. Sort of "let's send up
Alien(s)^3".

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:10:29 -0800
From: douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?

twolf@unix.tfs.net wrote:

> > Kagehira wrote:
> >
> > >       The Journal is not dead, but has been suspended for an indefinite
> > > period....At this point.
> > >
> > > Bryan
> >
> > >From where I sit, that is to say an active GM using the T4 system, there is no
> > difference.
>
> > So, allow me to propose a solution.  The website has a lot of promise and can be
> > relatively simple to maintain.  Hell, Word can do most of the HTML coding - you
> > just have to work on design and content.  Then use a text editor to remove the
> > MS specific garbage, and clean up the page for the various browsers that hit
> > your site.
> >
> >
> I believe that IG doesn't have anyone that controls there website
> currently.  That is why it hasn't been updated in 6 months.
>
> I have a better solution. Why not do up a JTAS website of our own.
> There are several very smart and highly motivated individuals on the
> list.  Let's get Marc's blessing and do are own electronic magazine
> on the web.  Heaven knows we have the talent on the list to do it.
>
> I propose a new thread to discuss it.
>
> JD
> Twolf

The main reason that I would like to see IG maintain it - at least to the point of
providing the material and editing - is maintain consistancy with their future
plans.  That, and they already have an investment in the internet namespace, the
basic web design, and have hardware installed (a gig of so of website space beats my
10 MB anyday!)

I've toyed with proposing administering the website myself (it can be done nicely
from a remote site as well as a local console - with the right setup) but time is a
real issue with me.  That and...well...I know HTML, I can throw together a website
and keep it running, but it will never be as fancy as some of the sites I've seen on
the webring.  (Of course, it will _load_ quickly!  :)  Has anyone jumped at the offer
that went out last week about maintaining the site?


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:22:46 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Real Men & Recoil...

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) types:
>Yeah, definitely calls for loose floppy trenchcoats or codpieces, or both.
>For the rest -- I don't see it being a particular problem.

Hmmmm....This is starting to sound like a really nifty Shadowrun character.
Right down to the projectile firing cyberware... :-)


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com - Opinion stated are mine -
<http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse>http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse
Ohnosecond - That miniscule fraction of time in which you realize that=
 you've
just=20
made a BIG mistake.=A0 Seen in Elizabeth P. Crowe's book The Electronic
Traveller.=20
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------------------------=20

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:23:55 EST
From: SW Mego <SWMego@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Playtest Help Wanted

In a message dated 97-12-16 12:15:35 EST, you write:

> >Anyone out there interested in doing some playtesting/proofreading/critical
>  >analysis of a set of RPG rules I'm doing (the actual background is still
>  having
>  >finishing touches being worked on)?
>  >
>  >Drop me a line if you are. 
>  
>  I'm interested.  Send 'em along.

I am interested as well. Let me know.

Derek...
swmego@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:49:21 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?

> From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
 
> Some list of Traveller aliens I got off the web (don't have reference or
> document now, sorry) named a minor species in Aslan space called something
> like the Huosua, which it described as nasty and xenophobic and "a
> possibility for Aliens".  I don't remember what reference to published
> description it gave.  Anyone else know anything about this?

An early JTAS Bestiary entry is the Reticulan parasite, based on the
alien from the first movie.  The Chamax Plague/Horde creatures also
remind one of the alien.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:50:53 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Playtest Help Wanted

On 16 Dec 97, SW Mego disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by 
writing:

> In a message dated 97-12-16 12:15:35 EST, you write:
> 
> > >Anyone out there interested in doing some playtesting/proofreading/critical
> >  >analysis of a set of RPG rules I'm doing (the actual background is still
> >  having
> >  >finishing touches being worked on)?
> >  >
> >  >Drop me a line if you are. 

<aol>
me too!
</aol>

(IOW: Sorry, but I appear to have deleted the original, so I had to 
reply to the list...)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
 Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO; 
 FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
  HEY LOOK, Ifixxedthat spacebarproblem. ohdarn.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:28:08 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

At 11:42 am 12/14/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I discovered something yesterday that may have some verry
disturbing
>implications for the trav universe.  I really hope one of the
gearheads
>on the list can refine my numbers (and even prove this wrong).
The
>subject is targeting.  From some quick numbers I ran up, hitting
>something "out there" should be nearly impossible.  If a weapon
is

>Can someone think of any reason why this argument isn't true
(other than
>because we say it is, or we don't want it, or some simmilar
handwave and
>without startng a flame war).

	I'm not sure how you did your analysis, but mine disagrees.
Check out
http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Admiralty/SpaceCombat/Sp
aceCombat.html

	Rough first approximation for a non-optimized firing method,
i.e. fire randomly within the projected circle where the target
should be. Chances of hitting a 100Td sphere are nearly 50% all
the way out at 120,000km


- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:59:25 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?

At 01:10 pm 12/16/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I've toyed with proposing administering the website myself (it can be done nicely
>from a remote site as well as a local console - with the right setup) but time is a
>real issue with me.  That and...well...I know HTML, I can throw together a website
>and keep it running, but it will never be as fancy as some of the sites I've seen on
>the webring.  (Of course, it will _load_ quickly!  :)  Has anyone jumped at the offer
>that went out last week about maintaining the site?

	It pains me no end to admit, and I'll probably burn in hell for
eternity, but I can ....

	no I can't ....

	must resist ....

	OK, OK! I can actually recommend MS FrontPage 98. Does a bang-up
job (with a few quirks), has some excellent features (like
enforced consistent themes, common borders, etc.), is reasonably
priced, and easy to use. I actually went out and bought it ...

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2164
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 17 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2165



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
near-c rock fix proposal:  The Aethereal Screw
Water Closets of the Far Future!
Re: Art Portfolio
Re: Playtest Help Wanted
More PAWs
JTAS Website
Re: Animals (was Re: So he tried again )
Re: Nanotech
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Recoil experiments
Traveller Aliens?
Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
PLaytesting? YES?
Import it into Traveller
Re: Playtest Help Wanted
Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?
Your PC's Physical Characteristics

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:18:25 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?

David J. Golden said:
> 	It pains me no end to admit, and I'll probably burn in hell for
> eternity, but I can ....
> 
> 	no I can't ....
> 
> 	must resist ....

He's not completely evil! I can turn him!

:) I couldn't resist either. You get your best "bang" for the buck if you
can send the data to a FrontPage server...

- -- 
 joe                          (573) 882-2000
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF
 "with a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and
 impenetrable fog!" -- Calvin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:21:55 -0600
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

<big honkin' snip>

>With Alien3 ...

<big honkin' snip2>

My problem with Alien3 (besides the acting, the blocking, and the storyline
logic) was that it basically invalidated almost all of the heroics of the
second movie. Everything that was fought and suffer for, thrown out the
window. Sure, it's Lovecraftian, but it was just kind of a letdown for a
movie.

ObTrav: Sadistic referees, how many times have you done this?

Have two or three of the PCs survive an adventure at the cost of the
self-sacrifice of all the other PCs, only to start the next adventure with:
"Okay, everyone roll up new characters -- you all died in coldsleep. Except
for you, Sigourney; your character survived, but has been impregnated by a
parasitic alien. Oh yeah, let's make them all condemned criminals too."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 00:16:05 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: near-c rock fix proposal:  The Aethereal Screw

On 12/15/97 at 05:08 PM,  Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> said:

>> The only way to not carry reaction mass *and* to obey conservation laws
>> is to keep pushing on the *same* object (planet or star). And in that
>> case, the fact that you are now pushing on something that *isn't "at
>> rest" with respect to the drive changes everything.

>Hmmmm...how about *this* weird idea:

>The thruster drive uses [insert handwave here] to 'find' nearby particles
>that are more or less at rest relative to the drive, and pushes them
>backward for thrust.  This has several interesting effects:

You've *almost* got it!

Here's a nice space opera idea...

\handwave on

Make the nearby particles, virtual particle pairs forming from the vacuum
foam..or in other words, the aether.  ;->

The "thruster" is actually a screw drive that interacts with the zero-point
force creating a energy deficient behind the ship displacing the ship's
mass forward.  The other masses in the universe soon even out the area of
disturbed vacuum, but for a short while there is a "wake", a pucker in
space-time behind the ship.

As the ship continues to accelerate, the half-life of the virtual particle
pairs forming ahead of the ship extend due to the energy imbalance being
formed.  At some level of velocity, the particles last long enough to
interact with the physical material of the hull and more importantly the
screw itself.  Resistance and friction heating now quickly bring the ship
to it's top-end speed.

So, does our Aethereal screw violate any laws of conservation?  Yea,
verily!  ;-> OTOH, I said it was a space opera idea.  

Besides, handwave-handwave, momentum *is* conserved..the momentum gained by
the ship is pulled from the vacuum where it is spread across all the matter
of the entire universe.  Energy conservation?  Absolutely!  It comes from
the massive energy bank of the vacuum.  

\handwave off

Set accelerations at whatever your game needs:  1-6g for orthodox
Traveller, several hundred for more "fast paced" games.  Make energy
requirements depend on the mass and increase the energy needed as you
accelerate, and put material top-end velocities down around 1% of c and let
material/design improvements over several TL's increase that to only 2 or
3% of c, and you take out the the .1c rock, too!

How does *that* sound? ;->

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:55:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Water Closets of the Far Future!

> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:38:34 -0800
> From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
> 
> But public restrooms nowadays are effectively segregated by social
> presentation of gender, not by anatomical sex.  How the Imperium handles
> this is what I'm wondering.  One single facility that everyone uses,
> all-are-equal-before-the-porcelain-emperor?  One restroom for Imperial
> citizens and one for non-citizens?

In Iain Banks' _The Player of Games_ (which I *highly* recommend, along
with all his other SF), there occurs a humanoid starfaring civilization
with three genders -- two corresponding roughly to Terran 'male' and
'female', and a third 'apex' sex with reversible genitalia which basically
mediates between them in any fertile (extended) sex act.  They had four
restrooms in their public places...males, females, apices, and aliens.

This setup got me thinking about why different facilities were needed.
The apices would presumably be 'plumbed' enough like either males or
females to use one of their facilities, so it was clearly being done for
social segregation reasons rather than 'engineering' ones.  Come to that,
while urinals do provide very slightly more efficient access for males,
the fact that we all get by just fine with unisex bathrooms in our homes
demonstrates that gender-segregating restrooms is a purely social
phenomenon.

What's more, any conceivable being should be able to dump solid and/or
liquid waste given nothing more than a flat spot of ground (or a place to
hang, or fly, or whatever); this insistence on seats for defecating (e.g.)
is a recent and localized innovation of some Western cultures.  Thus, an
Imperial starport might offer 'male' and 'female' restrooms for the use of
humans, and those beings whose plumbing and social roles split along
similar gender lines -- Aslan and Vargr, notably.  Some effort might be
made to produce fixtures serving all such races reasonably well.  In
addition, a third 'others' restroom would be supplied in which stalls of
various sizes would center on a simple sloped hole in the floor, with
various bars along the walls and ceiling of the stall for convenience in
'squatting' or the equivalent.

Less wealthy establishments wishing to offer restroom facilities to a
variety of races might save money by having *only* 'other'-style
restrooms, on the theory that everyone can use them, even if it won't be
optimally comfortable.

Finally, cosmopolitan outfits like the Traveller's Aid Society (at its
major facilities) might show off by having separate restroom facilities
for a wide variety of species, subdivided by gender or other relevant
category.  Some of these facilities might be used only once or twice a
year, but the entity involved will surely appreciate the luxury of
'correct' fixtures.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:11:52 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Art Portfolio

- -> This has also been my biggest complaint about T4 (and TNE).  These are games and games should look exciting and fun.  You don't need color art to make a pretty book (look at Heavy gear for an exampl
I'd rather have useable stuff than art in my RPG-books! 

- -> GURPS is no better.  One reason I have never bought a GURPS product is the boring type and unbroken paragraphs of plain text.

That's actually one of the reasons i like gurps, because these text-
wastelands are usually filled to the brim with useable gaming 
material. There is no "filler", just content. The pics aren't that 
important, the content is!
The pics could look as nice as pumpkin pie, but i wouldn't care if 
the content sucks. Even if Starships or FS had the greatest art in 
the Universe i wouldn't buy them since their contents are crap!
Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:10:54 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Playtest Help Wanted

Phillip McGregor wrote:
> 
> Anyone out there interested in doing some playtesting/proofreading/critical
> analysis of a set of RPG rules I'm doing (the actual background is still having
> finishing touches being worked on)?
> 
> Drop me a line if you are.
> 
> Phil
> ---------------------------------------------
> Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
> Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
> Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
> Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)


Sure. I'll bite.  After all, I bought your Space Opera books.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:10:49
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: More PAWs

To : Uncie Hengie

From : Diiitzie, in Hi-Energy Solutions

Re : Weeee've got a new toy

Uncie Hengie ....


We went from building very very small particle-warticle guns to very big ones.

And weeeeve built one that weeeee reckon you could just cram into our 200
dee-ton neeeedle design.

It's a 48 meter long, 6 meter diameter particle accelerator that puts out
two point three gigajoules or baby waby particles going very wery wery fast.

The tuuuuube is surrounded by eleven point five gigajoules worth of
accu-accumulators. They take up fifty seven point five cubic meters, mass
one hunnerd fifteen tons and cost five hunnerd seventy thousand credits.

It's got a three hunnerd thousand killlllllometer beaaaam pointer, which
takes up ten cuuubic meters and weighs ten tons and costs one million credits.

It neeeds five peeeeeeople to aim it and stuff, and they each get a
terminal terminal terminal. Thiiiirty five cuuubic meters, one ton and
Fiiiiive thousand credits. Thats assuming you have a niiiiiice modern
computer or three. If you have nasty clunky ones like thoooose naaaasty
people in Puchasing make us use, you might neeeed more people *pout*.

Power comes form battery-watteries, coz weeeee reckon that you shouldnt
build engines you wont need most of the time, coz then things cost too
much. And accounting say weeeee need to save money coz leeeeegals keep
billing their new cars to us. Weeeee reckon they've started blowing them up
on purrrpose, just to get us into trouble. And they've been putting meson
screens on them.

So weee put enough batteries to provide five hunnerd seventy five megawatts
per second for one hour on it. That is five hunnerd seventy five cubic
meters, weighing 1150 tons and costsing two point eight seven five
megacredits. 

All up, it takes up 2035 cuuuuubic meters, twenny three hunnerd tons and
costs one hundred and forty and a half megacredits. Surface area is twenny
eight point two seven square meeeeeters. Two thousand and thirty five
cuuuubic meters is one hunnerd forty six displacement tons.

The particle-warticles have enough weet bix to go for one million
kilometers before they break up, and do two hunnerd forty damage to
anything they hit.

Coz our batteries have lots lots lots of power, you can fire it every
twenny seconds till you run out of juuuuuice in the batteries, which takes
one hour. Weeeee reckon if you can't hit whatever you are shooting at in
one hunnerd and eighty shots, then yoouuuuu shouldnt get to play with
niiiiice toys.

Your Loving cousin,

Ditzie

**************************************************************************

More scary stuff from the Famile, assuming I am right in saying that a
240-damage rated weapon penetrates 240 factor armour. And it's a PAW, so
sand doesnt help.

And for one hundred and fifty megacredits in one hundred and fifty
displacement tons, putting out two point three gigajoules to three
light-seconds, and firing every 20 seconds for an hour ... eggshells with
hammers. A 200 dt needle hull is about 50 meters long ... I dont think
there is a Frontier Trader you couldnt retrofit one of these babies into
(except maybe the Recollet).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:11:40 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: JTAS Website

I prefer words on paper (OK. I'm a caveman. It's true)

BUT: I think a website JTAS might be an excellent idea. Might even drag in
a few browsers too.

In short; I can't do it but if someone does then I'll contribute.

Do it!
MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:32:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Animals (was Re: So he tried again )

In mail you write:

> I am aware that wolves normally hunt prey somewhat smaller than moose
> and I suspect that they probably have a somewhat higher rate of sucsess
> but I think that a 92% rate is way too high.

More than "somewhat smaller". Researchers have found that at least
during the spring/summer months, the main staple of the wolf diet is
*field mice*. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:43:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Nanotech

In mail you write:

> Greetings to the list.
>
> I'd like to incorporate this nano stuff into my campaign.
>
> Anyone out there aware of a game/sourcebook listing numerous
> applications and effects or a "real world" book that could give me
> something to chew on?

I don't know about any soyurcebooks, but I can point you at some
non-fiction and fiction that deal with it.

Non-fiction: The book that pretty much started it all is by Eric
Drexler. I *think* the title is "Engines of Creation" but I may be way
off base. But doing a search for the author should get you something
useful. 

Fiction: "Diamond Age" by Neal Stephenson.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:38:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

In mail you write:

> Q:  Where was the idea for the alien cleanly swiped from?
>
> A:  _Voyage of the Space-Beagle_ by E.E. Doc Smith I believe if I remember
> right.  There was a critter called an Ixtl that was one of a degenerate race.
> They had eggs that could be implanted in a host and then would eat their way
> out.  The one in the book was the last of the species, the others had killed
> themselves in a nuclear war.  Unlike the alien though, these guys servived on
> "energy" and could move through solid objects.

Half right. You got the title right, but the author was A.E. Van Vogt. 

Also, I think that there was more than a hint of Coeurl in there as
well (which btw was *definitely one of the influnces for the Star Trek
episode fans refer to as "The Incredible Salt Vampire" :-)

And both Ixitl, and Coeurls would make lovely things to let your
players discover the hard way. Consider "superdense" to be the "hull
metal" that was so important in both stories, and you are pretty much set.


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:25:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

In mail you write:

>>> Right!  I'm reminded of another basic, fundamental question of the
>>> Traveller universe which is yet to be resolved, and which some members of
>>> the list will no doubt find in poor taste.  Does the Third Imperium have
>>> sex-segregated public lavatories?  How?
>>
>>I dunno about sex segregated, but they'll have to be *species*
>>segregated. Humans and vargr can probably use each other's facilities
>>(though the vargr will have problems with their tails). Aslan can
>>probably use human or vargr facilities as well, though size differences
>>might be a problem.
>>
>>But there's no way a K'kree or a Hiver can use human facilities or each
>>other's. Ditto for lots of other "non humanoid" races.
>>
>>BTW, there's a lot of variation in the "facilities" used in "civilized"
>>countries right here on Earth. Consider the bidet, and the "Turkish"
>>toilet. These can come as quite a suprise when visiting another country.
>
> I remember in China in the late '70s being shown "Western-style" toilets at
> a newly-reopened tourist site:  one trench for men, one trench for women.
>
> But public restrooms nowadays are effectively segregated by social
> presentation of gender, not by anatomical sex.  How the Imperium handles
> this is what I'm wondering.  One single facility that everyone uses,
> all-are-equal-before-the-porcelain-emperor?  One restroom for Imperial
> citizens and one for non-citizens?

I'd say we call it "cultural/social" and thus up to local policy.

At a guess, facilities frequented by offworlders will at least have
private "stalls". Then even if you are having both sexes in one
facility, you don't have as many problems.

Oh yeah, were you aware that there were urinals for *women*, In fact,
several of the designs used for men these days started out as designs
for women (basicly, if it has that "trough" section that sticks out a
foot or so, it may be a "female" design).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:39:49 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Traveller Aliens?

SemoFetus wrote:

[snip]
>
>An Aslan-alien would be pretty nasty.


	Big, claws, teeth, slimedripping, yup.


>An Ithklur-alien would be far more frightening.


	Bigger and nastier, slimedripping, Santa hat, oh yeah.


>A Hiver-alien would be...  amusing.


	Lots of tentacles, extremely slimedripping, subtly encourages
people to take up smoking, drive while intoxicated, eat fatty foods, and
forget basic airlock safety precautions, amusing indeed.


>A K'Kree-alien might not be very terrifying ("Captain, he's eating all of our
>lettuce!")


	This is your Humanocentric bias showing.  If you were a H'resh
you'd be under your bed screaming for Prozac right now.


><I feel bad.  Everyone swipes at the poor Centaurs.>


	They deserve it.  Drop the Star Trigger, barbeque them all!

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:05:53 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Evyn MacDude wrote:

>  I have to concur all the Gurps:Space:Traveller games have had
> the same feel as my CT, MT, and TNE games. I believe it is the
> setting and not the rules that makes a game.

Or it is the Game Master, who leads the group through the world ...

Its time to put my custard onto this. In my view (remember this before 
flaming) Traveller consists of three main parts:

1. The Game Mechanics and Rules - as die rolling conventions, character 
generation and task systems, world generation systems and building 
starships. This would make the main difference between CT, MT, TNE, T4 and 
GURPS:Traveller.

2. The Technology - this is the point where 'explanations' for the rules 
occur: no, you can't travel faster than one week per jump. yes you can 
fire high-energy plasma against to your enemy. no, you can't beam down to 
the planet surface. yes, there is a fire-breathing dragon, because he's 
spitting napalm from his nostrils ...

3. The History - one thing I like most in Traveller. You have got an 
Imperium that not only consists of some ruled NPCs, there is this 
incredible big canon behind it that travels back some 300,000 and forth 
another thousand years (from the point of milieu:0) Some feel this 
canonhas gotten too big sometimes, but I think you can find much 
adventure hooks only looking at this. I was expecting much of this when 
the T4 Rules Book announced more material about other Milieus, even the 
Ancients war, which I miss till now, as T4 seems to concentrate on M:0 at 
the time. But that's another thread. 

What makes a session now a TRAVELLER session aside from being some other?
My view is, that the History along with the Tech makes it. The Game 
Rules, as was written in more than one Trav Book, may be changed, for 
play's sake.

Another point I like in Traveller: You can take nearly all situations 
into the Traveller scenario by adjusting them a little bit (as well as 
taking Traveller adventures out to other Gaming Systems, q.e.d.)

I'll tell you how I prepare for my sessions: I take a video cassette to 
my VCR and look a movie from my library. I get some neat ideas when 
watching TV or going to the cinema. Some examples of Movies that inspired me:

John Carpenter's Assault on Precinct 13 - This one nearly fits into 
Traveller without change - you only have to change weapons (maybe) and Names.

The Money Pit (with Tom Hanks and Shelley Long) - My Scout wants to refit 
his ship; now guess what happens ...

Die Hard - An embassy will be taken hostage but not of the reasons the 
hostagers say. I expect to be a part of my group in there when this 
happens ...

Poltergeist - The last session my group had an encounter with a ghost - but 
if they find out, they will see it completely fits into the Traveller 
Universe. The basic idea came from the non-SF Drama 'House of Cards' (with 
Kathleen Turner and Tommy Lee Jones). I stripped also The X-Files, Carrie 
and A Chinese Gost Story for some scenes of this Adventure - and my 
group nearly behaved like the Psi-Factor OSIR Corps when they came into 
this house ... but not when they ran out.

The before mentioned Chamax-Plague/Horde Adventure is, looked at it 
nearer, an adaptation of Alien/Aliens for Traveller. 
'Nomads of the World-Ocean' bears similarities to 'Dune'
'Murder on Arcturus Station' is like Agatha Christie in third Imperium.

So this has gotten rather longish, but to say what I wanted to say, the 
feeling Traveller has to me is this of playing nearly every SF (or even 
non-SF) scenario in a world, that nevertheless has its own flavor.

Hope this didn't bother you

Greetings from L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:57:55 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: PLaytesting? YES?

In a message dated 97-12-16 12:15:35 EST, you write:
> >Anyone out there interested in doing some
playtesting/proofreading/critical
>  >analysis of a set of RPG rules I'm doing (the actual background is still
having
>  >finishing touches being worked on)?
>  >
>  >Drop me a line if you are. 

I am interested as well. Let me know.

------------------------------

Date: 17 Dec 1997 09:06 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Import it into Traveller

Howdy,

Allen Shock wondered about moving adventures from other
games into the Traveller universe, either by rules, by
setting, or both.

I'd recommend the "2010: Odyessy 2" module.  Was it by 
TSR?  Anyhow, it has reasonable deckplans for both ships
(it looks like the Discovery is a 500td ship), and the
plot line's not too bad.  One might not even have to push
the year out too much (just enough so that the players
won't immediately recognize the scene), and set it in
Milieu E:21.  Have a large Earth corporation (heck, you
don't have to make it Earth... could be a Core world in
M0!) lose control of a nonjump ship while it explores a
gas giant -- oh by the way, did we mention that it has a
reeeal small crew complement?  Heh, we put in some new
AI circutry for semiautonomy... heh heh, wonder what
could have gone wrong with the mission??

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 06:26:15 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Playtest Help Wanted

>In a message dated 97-12-16 12:15:35 EST, you write:
>
>> >Anyone out there interested in doing some 
playtesting/proofreading/critical
>>  >analysis of a set of RPG rules I'm doing (the actual background is 
still
>>  having
>>  >finishing touches being worked on)?
>>  >
>>  >Drop me a line if you are. 
>>  
>>  I'm interested.  Send 'em along.
>
>I am interested as well. Let me know.
>

Me too.

Greg Smith MonteCristo@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 06:18:56 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?

>I believe that IG doesn't have anyone that controls there website 
>currently.  That is why it hasn't been updated in 6 months.
>
>I have a better solution. Why not do up a JTAS website of our own. 
>There are several very smart and highly motivated individuals on the 
>list.  Let's get Marc's blessing and do are own electronic magazine 
>on the web.  Heaven knows we have the talent on the list to do it.
>
>I propose a new thread to discuss it.
>
>JD
>Twolf

If I had a computer at home, I would love to keep up the IG website like 
the call for a volunteer from a few days ago.  But I don't.  I've been 
keeping up my corporate site for a year now, but don't have the means to 
do IG "not on company time".  And I'm experimenting with some new 
software for it...

I agree with doing our own JTAS.  What a great idea!  Sign me up!

Greg Smith
The Count of
MonteCristo@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: 17 Dec 1997 09:27 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Your PC's Physical Characteristics

Howdy all,

How do the physical stats combine to yield information
about your player character?


Low Strength
- ------------
      		Low Dex    	Mid Dex    	High Dex
		---------------	---------------	--------------
Low End		Geek				Sharpshooter

Mid End

High End


Mid Strength
- ------------
      		Low Dex    	Mid Dex    	High Dex
		---------------	---------------	--------------
Low End						Sprinter

Mid End						Boston Marathon

High End					Ninja; Navy Seal



High Strength
- -------------
      		Low Dex    	Mid Dex    	High Dex
		---------------	---------------	---------------
Low End		Bouncer				

Mid End				Mechanic	Ukranian acrobat

High End	Barbarian				

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2165
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 17 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2166



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Recoil experiments
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Missed #2159
Sayat Seasonal Beverages
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2153
Imported Adventure
Re: Traveller Combat System slow
IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again] 
Re: Traveller Combat System slow
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Test, Ignore Please
RE: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again] 
Re: Sayat Seasonal Beverages

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:53:12 +0000
From: suzd@pop.goodnet.com
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

> I'd say we call it "cultural/social" and thus up to local policy.

I agree. I would think that the variations in this area would be as 
endless as any other cultural/social biases that different cultural 
groups would have. I wouldn't think that there would be any sort of 
'Imperial standard' imposed, even in starports. The design and 
construction of most of those starports will be local in origin, 
especially in M0 as planets are only beginning to join into the 
Imperium. 

> At a guess, facilities frequented by offworlders will at least have
> private "stalls". Then even if you are having both sexes in one
> facility, you don't have as many problems.

I'd agree to this, too, though what you find inside that stall may 
give you pause for a moment. Remember Crocodile Dundee II when faced 
with the bidet?
 
> Oh yeah, were you aware that there were urinals for *women*, In fact,
> several of the designs used for men these days started out as designs
> for women (basicly, if it has that "trough" section that sticks out a
> foot or so, it may be a "female" design).

Not for me, thank you :)

Suz
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:41:54 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

Joseph Dietrich wrote:

[snip]
>My problem with Alien3 (besides the acting, the blocking, and the storyline
>logic) was that it basically invalidated almost all of the heroics of the
>second movie. Everything that was fought and suffer for, thrown out the
>window. Sure, it's Lovecraftian, but it was just kind of a letdown for a
>movie.

I thought it was freakin' GREAT.  It was the best device in any
suspense/adventure film this decade!  For all its gritty realism (tm), we
don't see enough reality, like "hard work doesn't pay" and "heroics lead to
death".  The heroics of the second movie weren't invalidated by the third;
they were affirmed -- IMO.

[snip]

>"Okay, everyone roll up new characters -- you all died in coldsleep. Except
>for you, Sigourney; your character survived, but has been impregnated by a
>parasitic alien. Oh yeah, let's make them all condemned criminals too."

An extremely refreshing change from the lean & mean & photogenic Space
Marines, I thought...  yeah, the Traveller Adventure "Prison Planet" was
one of my faves, too.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:57:28 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>I'd say we call it "cultural/social" and thus up to local policy.
>
>At a guess, facilities frequented by offworlders will at least have
>private "stalls". Then even if you are having both sexes in one
>facility, you don't have as many problems.

Or perhaps Standard Imperial Interstellar Culture thinks that privacy
during excretion is sick and wrong, and should be done in public; and that
the gender of onlookers is irrelevant? <G>

>Oh yeah, were you aware that there were urinals for *women*, In fact,
>several of the designs used for men these days started out as designs
>for women (basicly, if it has that "trough" section that sticks out a
>foot or so, it may be a "female" design).

I _hadn't_ seen these... didn't know that the drag king cabal was quite so
far along towards world domination.  Soon, nothing will be able to stop us!
<cackle>^H^H^H^H^H <chortle>.

There's also those little funnel devices they sell at hiking/camping stores
to let women urinate standing up; forget what they're called again, but
that's okay, since this is far off-topic... wait, no: they're travelers'
aids, aren't they?  Whew.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:52:27 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!

Craig Berry wrote:

[snip]

>similar gender lines -- Aslan and Vargr, notably.  Some effort might be
>made to produce fixtures serving all such races reasonably well.  In
>addition, a third 'others' restroom would be supplied in which stalls of
>various sizes would center on a simple sloped hole in the floor, with
>various bars along the walls and ceiling of the stall for convenience in
>'squatting' or the equivalent.
>
>Less wealthy establishments wishing to offer restroom facilities to a
>variety of races might save money by having *only* 'other'-style
>restrooms, on the theory that everyone can use them, even if it won't be
>optimally comfortable.

How do you think the Imperium proper would handle it (for example, in
embassies and consulates, trade stations, other public facilities)?

>Finally, cosmopolitan outfits like the Traveller's Aid Society (at its
>major facilities) might show off by having separate restroom facilities
>for a wide variety of species, subdivided by gender or other relevant
>category.  Some of these facilities might be used only once or twice a
>year, but the entity involved will surely appreciate the luxury of
>'correct' fixtures.

I like this idea, a lot.  'Specially since those long-unused facilities are
ideal places for mob hits and drug deals and payoffs of corporate spies and
foreign provocateurs and PCs and other shadowy characters <G>.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:30:26 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

suzd@pop.goodnet.com wrote:

> > At a guess, facilities frequented by offworlders will at least have
> > private "stalls". Then even if you are having both sexes in one
> > facility, you don't have as many problems.
> 
> I'd agree to this, too, though what you find inside that stall may
> give you pause for a moment. Remember Crocodile Dundee II when faced
> with the bidet?

Or Stallone when faced with the three shells?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:08:52 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Missed #2159

Could some kind soul re transmit the note directed at me from #2159. My
mailer's dog ate it :)

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:24:55 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Sayat Seasonal Beverages

A cold-season festival drink, served all too frequently at Sayat consular
parties.  They can't see why aliens don't like it; after all, it _is_ an
alien cocktail, using alien materials.  What's the big problem?  Now,
thanks to my contacts, the recipe is available for all to enjoy!

Ingredients:
   Bourbon (cheap is good)
   Animal flesh (beef jerky is fine, the sort in long, thin hard strips)
   Vanilla flavoring

1) Pour a big mugful of bourbon;

2) Nuke it till it's hot and steaming;

3) Add vanilla to suit your taste of irony;

4) Stir with dried meat (leave in mug; it beats a little umbrella);

5) Serve at once.

Guaranteed to festivate any Traveller party.

Yeruulitkisun!

<glug>

<thud>


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:25:57 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

>Half right. You got the title right, but the author was A.E. Van Vogt. 

Whoops.  Y'know.  Just before I typed, I second guessed myself...

Damn.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:18:59 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

>My problem with Alien3 (besides the acting, the blocking, and the storyline
>logic) was that it basically invalidated almost all of the heroics of the
>second movie. Everything that was fought and suffer for, thrown out the
>window. Sure, it's Lovecraftian, but it was just kind of a letdown for a
>movie.

The acting was probably some of the best in the Alien series, in my opinion.
Now as far as invalidating the heroics of the second movie...  Hell, people
die pointlessly and needlessly every day.  Accidents take lives.  And instead
of just having Newt and Hicks (the two people closest to Ripley) and have
Ripley walk around like nothing had happened, they built her character into
something different.

I don't think its Lovecraftian as much as it is stark and terrible, which is
what the Alien series started out with in the first place.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 18:05 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Out of the Ashes.....New Journal?

In-Reply-To: <199712161812.MAA23896@unix.tfs.net>

> I believe that IG doesn't have anyone that controls there website 
> currently.  That is why it hasn't been updated in 6 months.

I *think* the products list has been updated more recently, BICBW. 
OTOH, the CotI (RIP) page hasn't changed in nearly a year.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 20:39 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

In-Reply-To: <Marcel-1.26-1214234020-0b0dbra@D281215.btinternet.com>

Phil,

> I've just acquired the Naval Architect's Manual (NAM).
> I do like it (ignoring the "Wildest ride in the ship" and the
> "gently yielding energy wall").
> I always thought that traveller ships should be cramped internally,
> but some rooms (such as the bridges and media centres) are so spacious
> that you'd think the designers wanted to allow room for film cameras to
> be manoeuvred around :-)

IKWYM. Some of those rooms are *huge* - bridges where the captain is so 
far from the astrogator he needs a telescope to see him (well, almost), 
stateroom suites big enough to fit a scout/courier in...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 20:39 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

In-Reply-To: <971215.010536.7i9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

Leonard,

> > I always thought that traveller ships should be cramped internally,
> > but some rooms (such as the bridges and media centres) are so spacious
> > that you'd think the designers wanted to allow room for film cameras to
> > be manoeuvred around :-)
>  
> The usual reason for things to be cramped is that space is at a
> premium. But in a spaceship *mass* is what costs. Making the hull
> bigger only increases the mass a bit, and you only need to worry about
> *drag* if you are going to make high speed manuevers in an atmosphere.

On a ship, space *is* at a premium - the bigger the ship, the bigger the 
drives you need to move it, and the more it costs.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:57:03 +0000
From: "Paul Rocchi" <paul_rocchi@sns.ca>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2153

 "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  Said:

>>2) Frankly, I expect there to be a lot of GURPS: Traveller articles
>>in Pyramid.
>
> Well, just for the record.  Pyramid is not a SJ Games house
> organ.  It is interested in articles from a variety of
> sources and will consider Traveller articles whether
> or not they are GURPS Traveller.

I am aware of this, but seeing as it looks like GRUPS Traveller is 
going to be one of their major releases (they're doing a sub-line 
with it), I think that the'll do some in-house stuff to come out 
concurrent with the release.  And if you;re going to do a traveller 
artcle for SJG after GURPS: Traveller is out, why not coverboth 
classic and GURPS rules?

I'm not just a TML membr, I'm also a Man in Black for SJG :)

Paul Rocchi  SNS Shared Network Services Inc.
Paul_Rocchi@sns.ca (Business)
procchi@Total.net (Personal)

------------------------------

Date: 17 Dec 1997 12:41 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Imported Adventure

Howdy gang,

I just picked up FASA's "Graduation Exercise", which was
written for Star Trek.  It's about a group of Klingon
cadets who, for a final assignment, are charged the task
of recovering a downed agent on a border world.

The world itself is nasty, being in the midst of an ice
age, with inhospitable local animal life and a horrid
little virus in the water.  Even worse than that, the
agent has been captured by Romulans, who have established
a secret base there in order to develop a special serum
using local flora, following the indications inscribed on
a Preserver artifact.

Ok, you get the idea.

The Traveller version would go like this:

A group of Aslan are enrolled in the Tiyhekhou branch of 
the Imperial Marines in the Lunion subsector of the Spinward
Marches, and during their final year they are charged with
recovering a downed agent on Penkwar, near the Sword Worlds.

Penkwar       2128 X978310-1    Lo Ni           R  320 Im M0 V

Nasty world, mad animals, sneaky viruses, etc.

....and, of course, the Sword Worlders have established
a military research base, to investigate the creation of some
super-anagathic or battle drug or psi booster using a local 
virus, local flora, and the instructions from an Ancient 
pharmacological artifact.

This sound good?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:56:08 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Combat System slow

Here is how Traveller combat should work (draft for T4.1)

Preliminaries:
	Determine the party composition for each side.
Determine the setting, situation, range to the enemy, environment (vac, zero-
G, weather, etc), surprise.
	Using that determine the
		Range between the parties.
		Initiative.
	Determine if the battle will be on 
Basic range bands (simple situations)
Bands with equal ranges (15 meters) outdoors
Squares with 1.5 meters  indoors

Combat
	Combat round consists of
		Each character may move or act (shoot, etc)
		Each character may act (if he didnt before) or move (if he didnt before).
	At the end of the round everyone may change status (up/down).

Continue until the battle is over.

Details
Every task should be defined (rather than hinted at)
Every action should be defined (shown on a table) with details on what can and
cant be done (ie, you cant aim fire while crawling; you cant evade while
lying down still; you cant swordfight while running).
Charts spelling all of this out for easy reference.

Better definition of how weapons hurt people (more than just hits). For
example, how do burns work, radiation, bright flashes (to blind), loud bangs
(to deafen). Sonics, etc.
Addressing environmental injuries cold, heat, 

Adding a weapon card (so we dont have to look up the weapon stats every time)
that specifically details the difficulty at various ranges, and the damage
done at those ranges. A specific aimed fire DM for the weapon. Data on
reloading and reloading time.

More detail on Heavy Weapons and how they operate.
More detail on Artillery and how it operates (for example, only a Forward
Observer can direct Artillery).

This is basically a synopsis of a set of charts I am creating for T4.1.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:29:54 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again] 

Allen Shock Said;
>Phil MacGregor Said;
>> No-one has mentioned the (bleeding) obvious yet (perhaps for fear of
>flaming),
>> so I'll bite the bullet <asbestos underwear on> ...
>>
>> If IG cannot make a go of publishing the Journal, then how close to the
>wall are
>> they for the rest of their business?
>
>Well, while at earlier times I might have disagreed with you, I think you
>may be right. Although I will point out that magazines are notorious for
>not making money. Wizards of the Coast has flat-out said that neither
>Dragon nor Dungeon are money-makers, but they consider them important
>elements of customer service, and they will continue them. Therein lies my
>secondary theory; that "does not fit in with our plans" should really mean
>"does not make enough money, therefore we're canning it." My first theory,
>unfortuately, is the same as yours.

The question to ask is (1) How are sales?  and (2) How are expenses.

Sales;

I asked the proprietor at the Compleat Gamer on Massachusetts Ave in
Boston.  He said "Traveller is my best selling Science Fiction Role Playing
Game.", Specifically better than that Babylon thing.  Now, I'm not saying
this is a scientific or financial analysis, but you hafta go with anecdotal
evidence sometimes.

Another game store (Excalibur Hobbies, Malden MA) Had ordered one of
everything according to the kid behind the counter, and had sold all but a
few of that order.

In both stores the product had good shelf space, both in terms of placement
and quantity.

More products are released each month, taking more space on shelves,
attracting more buyers (a supported product with lots of supplements seems
to me to be more likely to be bought by someone looking for a game they can
play for awhile...as opposed to the many games I've seen with just one-two
products).

Expenses;

The business is (seems to be) being run (effectively) out of Sweetpea's
office.  I don't know if IG is paying rent to SPE or not (probably not).
Creative work is done by independents and there is no rented space/office
anywhere else.  This is a major expense avoided or at least reduced.  I
believe that "Anne" at SPE is "Running" IG by which I mean answering the
phone, assembling products and submitting them for printing.  IF that is
the only "real" salary, great.  More likely there is a salary for Tim
Brown, someone who has other projects (I think) and would probably be
getting part of a salary rather than full time.  As a long-time game maker
he knows there is not a big payoff in these endevours.

Printing costs are probably pretty high, but product pricing is certainly
sufficient to cover this cost.  since they seem to hav ea relationship with
a specific printer they are probably to the point where they are getting a
good price-break deal (as opposed to the situation if we saw a different
print format every product).  Plus using the same material (cover stock
etc) gets more efficient over time.

Salaries, printing, rent, all under control.  Where's the problem?  I can
see a hit coming when IG has to refund all the "Citizens" or JTAS
subscribers.  If this is done in product the hit will be a bit less
cashwise, but I also don't think this will be a company-killing expense
(salaries are usually the highest single budget item at an IG like company).

>> What I'm saying is, today, JTAS ... tomorrow T4.1? Next week ... IG?
>At this point, I'm not even optimistic about T4.1 ever coming out.

Please let me know why you feel this way.  It's not that I can't believe
you, I just havent seen the evidence.

>> I've also said that the best hope for Traveller surviving is obviously for
>> someone other than IG to do it ... [snip]
>There has been some discussion (engendered by me) on the GURPSnet list
>lately.[snip]

I find this a bit foolish as a discussion.  IG *is* producing Traveller.
Gurps Traveller will, according to the *publisher* be accorded the same
level of production as any other GURPS product; a few sourcebooks and
supplements.  Traveller as produced now by IG is an entire *line* with many
different kinds of sourcebooks.  There is no indication that SJG will ever
try to duplicate this kind of coverage.

>> I don't know what can be done to save them ... I don't even know that
>>they're
>> *worth* saving. One solution that's been tried is for people on this list to
>> actually write good stuff for them ... and they have. Unfortunately, the
>>people
>> at IG have always managed to stuff it up with the greatest of ease!

Phil, You're being one-sided.  IG has messed up a few products.  They have
also produced some excellent products.  I really like CSC, The Naval
Architects Manual (although it was different from my expectations)
Emperor's Arsenal, Anomolies, Pocket Empires, Psionic Institutes, and
others.  All were produced *relatively* error free.  There have been a few
products with nasty debilitating errors; The Milieu 0 sourcebook/UWP
listings, Starships (what is it about Traveller starship books - remember
Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium?) with its yukky deckplans.  There
have also been a few products receiving only partly justified badmouthing
here, Emperors Vehicles is quite usable as far as it goes.  Weapon stats
must be figured seperately, Tech Levels  missing are a bitch for certain
purposes, but altogether, I have photocopied the "cards" and am using them
actively in a campaign.

[snip]
> The problem is with the business folks at the top,
>not people like Marc and Tim Brown. And certainly not the fault of people
>like Suz, Stu , Joe, Andy etc. who have done what I consider to be some of
>the best stuff that has EVER been written for Traveller.

The same company that you are badmouthing *published* what you call "the
best stuff that has EVER been written for Traveller."

*Some* of their business practices leave much to be desired.  You (and the
previous poster on this thread) seem to believe these errors or lapses of
professionalism are automatically going to bring down the company.  If you
are going to hold them responsible for their errors (and I think you
should) balance this with praise or consideration for their
accomplishments.  If I had never bought a thing from IG I would think, from
your post, that they had never produced anything worth having.  I know
better and so do you and Phil


I know Allen was around (on the TML I Mean) when GDW had failed and IG
hadn't started (I'm not sure about Phil), and during that "long night" I
remember the horrible feeling that Traveller *never* would be produced
again.  It *is* being produced now, by a company capable of staying in
business and outputting good products (and bad).  I don't think we should
blindly buy their products.  I do think we should support the company by
buying their *good* products and providing fair analysis in public forums
like this one (and the GURPS list).

I do *not* think we should be anticipating their demise and possibly
spreading rumors of such based on a hunch or opinion.

>
>My opinion, of course.

Mine too, of course.  And though you "got my goat" a little all comments
are intended to be spoken in a conversational tone without any malice or
anger.

[snip the rest of the digest you resent to the list.  Wow, big mistakes can
happen:)]

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 21:01 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Traveller Combat System slow

In-Reply-To: <8088a867.34981240@aol.com>

CardSharks,

> This is basically a synopsis of a set of charts I am creating for T4.1.

Any idea of an ETA yet?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:59:27 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

Andrew Boulton wrote:

> > I've just acquired the Naval Architect's Manual (NAM).

I bought a copy the other day too.

> > I do like it (ignoring the "Wildest ride in the ship" and the
> > "gently yielding energy wall").

Agreed. ;-> There are a few other bits that might not be orthodox
Traveller, but over all pretty good in that sense.    

> > I always thought that traveller ships should be cramped internally,
> > but some rooms (such as the bridges and media centres) are so spacious
> > that you'd think the designers wanted to allow room for film cameras to
> > be manoeuvred around :-)

Yeah, the bridges seem much too big, the fixtures are enormous.

Really, it's the scales used in NAM that bother me, or rather the lack
of a consistent scale..well *really* it's the fact they didn't including
*any* scaling information at all! 

For example, if the squares on the Bridges are 1.5 meters, the chairs
are almost 1.5 meters wide and the workstations are 6 meters across, and
this was on a cramped bridge too! Even if the squares represent 1 meter,
the workstations are still *way* to big. OTHO, maybe the squares are
scaled in feet, the text does refer to 5 feet here and so many feet
there.  

I liked the text, I liked the deckplans, I'll try to "borrow" as much as
I can from them, but the lack of stated scales on the drawings or the
use of a consistent scale throughout is a major flaw..IMO.

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:12:30 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Test, Ignore Please

This is a test.   I don't seem to be receiving my own posts.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:56:30 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: RE: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again] 

hmmmm.

	I just had the most depressing (Traveller-wise) discussion with the 
manager of my favourite FLGS today.

	After hounding him about getting Imperial Squadrons (he said tomorrow, 
maybe), I asked him how his sales of Traveller were doing.

	His answer: that by now, they were only ordering one of every Traveller 
product - for me. He actually asked for me to tell him about what products 
I did want or didn't (I passed on one or two because they were of no use to 
me).

	After digging a little bit more, he said that when T4 first came out, 
there were several people that specifically bought and ordered it, but over 
time they had gotten so tired/ disgusted/ whatever with them poor quality, 
that they were no longer interested.

*sigh*

K.C. Komosky
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:25:55 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Sayat Seasonal Beverages

At 09:24 AM 12/17/97 -0800, you wrote:
>A cold-season festival drink, served all too frequently at Sayat consular
>parties.  They can't see why aliens don't like it; after all, it _is_ an
>alien cocktail, using alien materials.  What's the big problem?  Now,
>thanks to my contacts, the recipe is available for all to enjoy!

Well, I had to try this.  Surprisingly good, and very kicjl;fro.  Blurble.
@$%s ..  ff33virusinaglass!...!@&%   ^   &%307ALE6#

>Yeruulitkisun!

Wha' he said.

><thud>

Indeed.

- --

  Douglas E. Berry                              dberry@hooked.net
             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html
********************************************************************
Equation for finding the value of "chimp"                     .-"-.
                                                             /.-.-.\_
chimp=(a+x) + t6 (w+zm) - 4                                ( ( o o ) )
a is equal to the sum of the numbers in the current time     |/ " \|
(in military time) e.g. if the time is 17:22 then the value  \'---'/
of a=12, x is current temperature, t is # of turtles within  /`"""`\
one square mile (if any), w is size of wombat involved (in inches)
z is a reddish color, m is the ratio between your height relative
to the chimp in question.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2166
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 18 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2167



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
"Space Beagle"
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Optimising Starships
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: Optimising Starships
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2159
>*field mice*. 
Sand-boxes of the Far Future!
Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!
PE stuff
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Can of worms....
Re: Imported Adventure
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Sayat Seasonal Beverages

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:23:39 -0800
From: douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

K.C. Komosky wrote:

> hmmmm.
>
>         I just had the most depressing (Traveller-wise) discussion with the
> manager of my favourite FLGS today.
>
>         After hounding him about getting Imperial Squadrons (he said tomorrow,
> maybe), I asked him how his sales of Traveller were doing.
>
>         His answer: that by now, they were only ordering one of every Traveller
> product - for me. He actually asked for me to tell him about what products
> I did want or didn't (I passed on one or two because they were of no use to
> me).
>
>         After digging a little bit more, he said that when T4 first came out,
> there were several people that specifically bought and ordered it, but over
> time they had gotten so tired/ disgusted/ whatever with them poor quality,
> that they were no longer interested.
>
> *sigh*
>
> K.C. Komosky
> umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca

 Just as a counter - at my FLGS they are very pleased with T4 sales.

I would feel better if IG introduced other products tho'...  I think that if they
had several lines running (and hopefully, successful), it would allow for a little
better quality screening on the individual products.

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:19:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: "Space Beagle"

On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Traveller-digest wrote:

> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:03:31 EST
> From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
> 
> Oh, one last bit of Alien trivia:
> 
> Q:  Where was the idea for the alien cleanly swiped from?
> 
> A:  _Voyage of the Space-Beagle_ by E.E. Doc Smith I believe if I remember
> right.  There was a critter called an Ixtl that was one of a degenerate race.
> They had eggs that could be implanted in a host and then would eat their way
> out.  The one in the book was the last of the species, the others had killed
> themselves in a nuclear war.  Unlike the alien though, these guys servived on
> "energy" and could move through solid objects.

   A.E. Van Vogt was the author.


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:43:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote (WRT Alien 3):

> Have two or three of the PCs survive an adventure at the cost of the
> self-sacrifice of all the other PCs, only to start the next adventure with:
> "Okay, everyone roll up new characters -- you all died in coldsleep. Except
> for you, Sigourney; your character survived, but has been impregnated by a
> parasitic alien. Oh yeah, let's make them all condemned criminals too."

Good cinema.  Bad roleplaying.  The two are not always equivalent.

Alien 4 reversed it.  It might have made good roleplaying, and it would
have made a great comic book, but it was mediocre cinema. 


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:29:59
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Optimising Starships

I have been doing some thinking ...

Most starships I have seen are grossly overpowered for their normal needs,
but underpowered for peak combat efficiency. This is a problem, becasue
power plants are expensive.

As an example, let us take our "standard" 250 megajoule 20% efficiency
combat laser.

It has a theoretical rate of fire of one shot every 10 seconds, as per FFS
laser rules.

To provide this rate of fire, you need to deliver 125 megawatts per second
for ten seconds to the laser's accumulator banks.

Therefore, if your ship has 125 megawatts of power plant dedicated to
lasers, then it is a waste having more than one 250 mj anti-ship laser.
Point defense lasers should be optimised for point defense ie 35-50 kkm
range at TL12. Their intermittent but high power demand requires a "peak"
power output capability best provided by quick-release batteries - 10 m3 of
36s discharge batteries will provide 250 MW of power for 36 s at TL11, at a
cost of KCr 40 and a mass of 20t. At TL12, 10m3 of 36s batteries will
provide 375 MW of power, at a mass of 20t and a cost of KCr 50.

Now, the second half of the argument is the jump drives and the maneuver
drives. Somewhat obviously, you wont need to use both of them at once,
except for the 20 minutes or so the ship is preparing to enter jumpspace.

A 100 dt ship doing a jump-1 requires 25 megawatts of power per second.
This is enough to power 25 m3 of thruster plates 10 000 kN worth. 10 000 kN
will push a 1000t at one gee. Clearly, a jump-2 starship massing 10 tons
per dt will have enough power to propell itself at 2Gs. 

Therefore, an unarmed starship that plans to be at rest on jump should not
need to allocate power beyond this level.

If a ship plans to maneuver while making the jump, then it will need
batteries sufficient for those 20 minutes. At TL11, batteries that produce
25 megawatts of power for 24 minutes will take up 20 m3, mass 40t and cost
KCr80. An investment in slower-release batteries is worthwhile (25
megawatts for 1 hour masses 50t, takes up 25m3 and costs KCr 100), as the
other 40 minutes of battery power will provide a "boost" capability of 25
megawatts for the main power planet. TL12 reduces this to 16.7 m3, 33t and
KCr 83.5.

In summary, a starship designer should look very carefully on when power
will be needed before allocating ship space and mass to fusion power
plants. Batteries may well be a more efficient solution.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:22:00 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

K.C. Komosky wrote:

>         After digging a little bit more, he said that when T4 first came out,
> there were several people that specifically bought and ordered it, but over
> time they had gotten so tired/ disgusted/ whatever with them poor quality,
> that they were no longer interested.
>
> *sigh*

I hate to say it, but I'm starting to feel the same way.  I went to my local game
store today to try and peek through the NAM.  They didn't have it.

In fact, all they did have was:

2 copies of Gateway
2 copies of Fire, Fusion, and Steel
1 copy of the T4 softback main book
1 copy of Aliens Archive
1 copy of First Survey

And, that's it.  I didn't ask, but you can tell by what they stock that it is not
selling that well for them.  This was sitting right next to the Star Wars game,
which had a whole shelf devoted to it.

I went to another store and did get to browse through the NAM.  I was surprised as
it looked like a good book to buy.

Funny.  In the beginning, a year ago, I would buy all T4 stuff as soon as it hit
the shelves THEN I would take it home and look at it.

I feel like I've been burnt too many times now.  I haven't bought Gateway, EV, or
the NAM.  The jury's still out.

I've even thought of switching to Star Wars, and the only thing stopping me is that
I've got two years invested in this campaign.

Flipping though the NAM, it did look like a good book, yet I didn't leave the store
with it.  I bet many other Traveller players are feeling the same way.

Now with the JTAS no longer around (after only 2 issues) and the web site not
updated in six months, it really makes you think about what's going on at IG.

I hope they make it.  I really do.  I want Traveller to be around.

But, I gotta tell ya.  I'm tired of being disappointed in Traveller product.  I
picked up some of the Star Wars stuff, and it just doesn't compare.  The West End
Games material beats the heck out of the IG stuff--in quality, design, content, and
especially aesthics.

I'm getting to the point where I don't feel good buying Traveller stuff anymore,
and I don't like it.  But, I don't have any fight left in me.  I'm tired of pulling
for them, hoping the stuff will get better.  I'm discouraged.

From just flipping through the NAM, it looks like things are getting better, but I
can't help but think that it might be too late for a lot of folks.

Kenneth.
- --barely tugging along there.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:09:28 -0700
From: "Aerron Winsor"<awinsor@insurquote.com>
Subject: Re: Optimising Starships

ianw@orac.net.au on 12/18/97 05:29:59 AM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Aerron Winsor/Product Development/Provo/InsurQuote)
Subject:  Optimising Starships





I have been doing some thinking ...
Now, the second half of the argument is the jump drives and the maneuver
drives. Somewhat obviously, you wont need to use both of them at once,
except for the 20 minutes or so the ship is preparing to enter jumpspace.
A 100 dt ship doing a jump-1 requires 25 megawatts of power per second.
This is enough to power 25 m3 of thruster plates 10 000 kN worth. 10 000 kN
will push a 1000t at one gee. Clearly, a jump-2 starship massing 10 tons
per dt will have enough power to propell itself at 2Gs.
****
what set of rules are you using here?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 22:43:36 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

On 12/17/97 at 01:25 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>Oh yeah, were you aware that there were urinals for *women*..

Much too conservative, rampant technological conservatism!  ;->

At least, you could mention the "Sheinal", usable by men or women. It comes
with a funnel attached to a tube, disposable sanitary liners and takes up
no more space than a urinal. 

But the real answer is that in the future, like on TV, characters never
have to use the restroom...except to hold conversations, change clothes, or
escape someone.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:01:02 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2159

>I was so hopeful for TNE after
>FF&S1.  They told you how things were done in the original Traveller and
>MegaTraveller universes, told you what they changed and why, and then, here's
>the clinker, gave you ideas for other ways to do the same thing.
     ^^^^^^^

Freudian slip?

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:24:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: >*field mice*. 

>> I am aware that wolves normally hunt prey somewhat smaller than moose
>> and I suspect that they probably have a somewhat higher rate of sucsess
>> but I think that a 92% rate is way too high.
>
>More than "somewhat smaller". Researchers have found that at least
>during the spring/summer months, the main staple of the wolf diet is
>*field mice*. 

  Supposedly, this can work for the researcher, too :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:22:55 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Sand-boxes of the Far Future!

>Finally, cosmopolitan outfits like the Traveller's Aid Society (at its
>major facilities) might show off by having separate restroom facilities
>for a wide variety of species, subdivided by gender or other relevant
>category.  Some of these facilities might be used only once or twice a
>year, but the entity involved will surely appreciate the luxury of
>'correct' fixtures.

  Just imagine - a traveller of one of the rarer races getting in to
an A starport, and heading off to the nearest set of comprehensive
facilities. His/her/? compatriots think "ah, food/alcohol/fellow
species members". Really, the thoughts are "nicely rounded pebbles,
well-raked - I regret so often being weeks from the nearest proper
litterbox..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:36:04 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!

Craig Berry wrote:

> > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:38:34 -0800
> > From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
> >
> > But public restrooms nowadays are effectively segregated by social
> > presentation of gender, not by anatomical sex.  How the Imperium handles
> > this is what I'm wondering.  One single facility that everyone uses,
> > all-are-equal-before-the-porcelain-emperor?  One restroom for Imperial
> > citizens and one for non-citizens?
>

In my campaign, washrooms are not segregated by gender, nor by race. Public
facilities have one "room" for this purpose, if it's even present at all.

> In Iain Banks' _The Player of Games_ (which I *highly* recommend, along
> with all his other SF), there occurs a humanoid starfaring civilization
> with three genders -- two corresponding roughly to Terran 'male' and
> 'female', and a third 'apex' sex with reversible genitalia which basically
> mediates between them in any fertile (extended) sex act.  They had four
> restrooms in their public places...males, females, apices, and aliens.
>

This is the reason why the Imperium doesn't bother with multiple restrooms in
my universe (IMU). What if a race had four, five or more sexes? It quickly
becomes cumbersome. The Imperium adopts the attitude that, if you don't want
to use the public room, nobody's forcing you. Of course, using the sidewalk
instead may be frowned upon ...

> the fact that we all get by just fine with unisex bathrooms in our homes
> demonstrates that gender-segregating restrooms is a purely social
> phenomenon.
>

Exactly. To extend that a bit further, I'd say that it is a cultural trait
that we need privacy for those functions and not for others. There are
probably cultures out there in the galaxy for which the expulsion of waste
matter is done as a shared experience with the family, while the intake of
fuel (i.e. food) is done in private.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:30:40
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: PE stuff

First of all, has anyone put together any rules about settling other worlds
within a system ?

It strikes me that settlement costs should be reduced by 90% for insystem
colonisation, and that worlds within a system should be able to spend money
on each other at 90% efficiency at TL10, at 75% after TL8 and at 33% for TL7.

Secondly, the Finished Goods Trade should be based on the relative size of
the trade zone to your GDP. This gives a bigger bonus to small worlds
(which is good and, to me, logical) but doesnt raise the GDP of a big world
30% for colonising half a dozen balls of rock with colonies of 500 people
each.

Finished Goods Trade is still critical to an Empire's development, but it
means that big (billion plus population) worlds will have to contact other
big worlds to get the advantages.

Thirdly, worlds only conduct Resource Trade within a trading area. If
no-one in a trade area has infrastructure in excess of resources, then
resource doesnt happen due to a lack of demand.

Finally, base infrastructure and starport costs on population. When
population increases so as the UWP code changes, reduce the infrastructure
and starport by one level.

Starports now cost (Pop*100) RU for an A starport, (Pop*20) for a B
starport, (Pop*12) for a C starport and (Pop) for a D starport in RU.

This reflects the fact that every time your population increases tenfold,
your starport is too small and you now need to buy another one. Similarly,
you need to keep investing in infrastructure, or it wont support the
increased load of your new, higher, population on it.

To improve a starport, you need to have one of the next lower category (eg
build E, then D, then C, then B then A).

At the referees option, a world could build a small high-quality facility,
and a larger main facility (eg a TL9 pop 8 world builds an A4 starport for
building and maintaining it's small fleet of interstellar vessels and a
larger B8 facility for supporting it's large fleet of insystem vessels and
maintaining visiting traders).

An Ax class starport can build 10^(x+1) tons of vessels a year, with a
maximum size of 100*(x^2) tons.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:27:54 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Q:  Where was the idea for the alien cleanly swiped from?
> >
> > A:  _Voyage of the Space-Beagle_ by E.E. Doc Smith I believe if I remember
> > right.  There was a critter called an Ixtl that was one of a degenerate race.
> > They had eggs that could be implanted in a host and then would eat their way
> > out.  The one in the book was the last of the species, the others had killed
> > themselves in a nuclear war.  Unlike the alien though, these guys servived on
> > "energy" and could move through solid objects.
> 
> Half right. You got the title right, but the author was A.E. Van Vogt.
> 
> Also, I think that there was more than a hint of Coeurl in there as
> well (which btw was *definitely one of the influnces for the Star Trek
> episode fans refer to as "The Incredible Salt Vampire" :-)
> 
> And both Ixitl, and Coeurls would make lovely things to let your
> players discover the hard way. Consider "superdense" to be the "hull
> metal" that was so important in both stories, and you are pretty much set.


I also did Ixtls and Couerls as PC choices for races in my games.  No
one ever picks them because they don't know what they do.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 05:34:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Can of worms....

In mail you write:

> Okay, now you've got my interest, WHY does space combat _have_ to be at super
> long range, especially when you have to extend the ranges of weapons to do so
> in the first place.  From a romantic perspective, its terrible.  From a
> scientific perspective, it seems unrealistic, so where's the middle ground?

From a scientific and *practical* perspective, it *has* to be at long
range. Given the speeds reached by any sort of decent drive, and the
difficulty of turning around given anything *resembling* real physics
for movement, and you get long ranges.

The ships won't be *close* for more than *seconds* unless they are both
on the same course. And that's *not* a common situation.

At 1 g you reach 36 km/sec in an hour. And in that time you cover
almost 65 thousand km. At that speed ships on an "intercept" course
cover 1000 km in under 14 *seconds*. And it would take them a couple of
*hours* to turn around to make another "pass".

So divide your "reasonable" weapons range by 1000 km, and multiply by
13.7777... seconds. That's how long the ships would be "in range" of
each other. 

Now note that this is for ships moving *slowly*. At 1 g it takes less
than 2 and a quarter hours for a ship to cover 1 light second from a
standing start (if it is accelerating all the way). And it'll be moving
77.5 km/sec at the end.

>>Combat at shorter ranges and lower speeds would *require* the party
>>being attacked to *consent* to the attack by letting the other guy get
>>that close.
>
> To look at it that way, I guess you could say that about _any_
> combat, and of course, just like in real life, the side with the
> longer range and better accuracy is going to kick butt.  Of course,
> its not that way with real combat, there's stealth, and jamming, and
> long range weapons, just like there are in Traveller space combat.

What was meant was that to have prolonged combat at short range, the
ships would have to *match* courses. And that pretty much takes mutual
consent, or ships with similar drive ratings starting from the same
point. 

Consider what happens if a 2 G ship chases a 1g ship that has an hours
head start. By the time the 2g ship catches up, it'll be moving a *lot*
faster than the other ship. So it'd have to accelerate for a while,
then *decelerate, so as to be at the same point the other ship will be
at and moving with the same velocity. Only trouble is, ifthe other ship
spots them decelerating, it can decelerate too in which case they'll
*again* pass at high speed. Or it can thrust off sideways, requiring
course corrections. 

Try working out the math yourself. Or just play it out using Mayday. It
*ain't* easy.

Airplanes and ships can turn by using the medium they are moving thru
(air or water) to help *redirect* their velocity. Spaceships *can't*.
They have to change their vectors the hard way. This makes things a lot
more complicated if you have to get within a few thousand km before you
can use your weapons.

Think of what air combat would be like if a fighter had to be within
100 feet to attack another fighter...

>>The key to *those* was that the vessels had to conserve fuel and stick
>>to Hohmann transfer orbits (in other words, to be sitting ducks for
>>*months* at a time).
>
> May be realistic, but not terribly interesting for Traveller space combat.  
> So
> in this case, since Traveller is a game, lets shelve realism on this point.
> Travel between worlds already takes a long time, combats lasting several
> months would really stretch things to the limit.

Surte. Traveller ships (mostly) *don't* have to conserve fuel. But that
means they are mostly moving like a bat out of hell. Which means that
either you have to be able to shoot from a *long* ways away, or you
have to accept attacks that last a minute or less, followed by hours of
manuevering to get into position to make another attack.

That may be interesting to some folks (I wouldn't mind playing a few
such sessions out myself), but it's going to make most players irritated.

So you need weapons that can be used at "typical" ranges.

>>It's not "technological conservatism". It's the laws of phsyics. Combat
>>ranges are determined by propulsion technology as well as weapons tech.
>
> Of course combat ranges are determined by both propulsion and weapons tech.
> And no it isn't technological conservatism, but it is related in the sense it
> seems to be a holdover from an earlier time of Traveller.  Just asking, no
> need to take a super arrogant tone.

Its only a "holdover" in the sense that the *physics* haven't changed.

If you want drives that can boost at 1 or more gees for hours at a
time, you need weapons that have *long* ranges, or you get the combat
situation I mentioned above. 

I'm not being *arrogant*. I *am* getting a bit frustrated that you
haven't actually sat down and tried to figure out *how* things will
actually work out in the game.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:46:30 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Imported Adventure

>...and, of course, the Sword Worlders have established
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>a military research base, to investigate the creation of some
>super-anagathic or battle drug or psi booster using a local
>virus, local flora, and the instructions from an Ancient
>pharmacological artifact.
>
>This sound good?
>
>Rob

Doesn't Darrians fit the Romulans better? Aren't they pretty high tech (the
Romulans) with cloaking devices etc?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:44:36 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

OK heres my take on the NAM:
Very nice illustrations with detailed chairs & stuff (compare to anything
offered by GDW, really GDW maps generally sucked). The authors generally
has little or no comprehension about the Traveller universe, its more like
a mix between Star Trek and Star Wars. The deckplans use different scaled
grids (some seem to be 1m grid and others are more like 1.5m or even 2m)
The scales aren't labeled so its anybodys guess. Use the length of beds as
measures as these tend to be about 2m for humans.

The illustrators are to 20th century Earth (US) centric. Exercise bikes and
weightlifting stuff smell a tad low tech for me.

Despite all the shortcomings NAM will probably be the only T4 book I'll
ever use as it is nice to have when you need a map of something in a hurry
(bar, coference room, mess hall etc). The maps could be used for hotels etc
just as well as inside starships so I'll probably use them.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:17:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

In mail you write:

> Or Stallone when faced with the three shells?

Oh Lord! I'd forgotten that. 

I think the best part was that they left you wondering about *how* they
were used!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:10:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!

In mail you write:

> Exactly. To extend that a bit further, I'd say that it is a cultural trait
> that we need privacy for those functions and not for others. There are
> probably cultures out there in the galaxy for which the expulsion of waste
> matter is done as a shared experience with the family, while the intake of
> fuel (i.e. food) is done in private.

Heinlein, "Space Cadet"... The Venerians only recognized privacy for
the purpose of eating. And the term was almost never used. Instead
there were various circumlocutions used to describe "the act" (much
like Westen culture and fucking).

Picture the fun you'd have if your ship was hired by the Imperial
government to carry a diplomatic delegation from a race like that.
You'd have to put partitions in the mess room and rig some sort of
"doors" for the cubicles thus formed...

God help you if any of the crew chews gum or tobacco....

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:28:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

In mail you write:

>>> I am aware that wolves normally hunt prey somewhat smaller than moose
>>> and I suspect that they probably have a somewhat higher rate of sucsess
>>> but I think that a 92% rate is way too high.
>>
>>More than "somewhat smaller". Researchers have found that at least
>>during the spring/summer months, the main staple of the wolf diet is
>>*field mice*. 
>
>   Supposedly, this can work for the researcher, too :)

You heard that story too, huh?

To bring this *somewhat* back on topic, travellers are going to
encounter some *strange* foods out there, even with pure human
cultures.

The above brought to mind the Roman delicacy of dormice in honey. Other
"nummies" are things like fresh blood and milk mixed (An african tribe
whose name I forget use this as a staple). Various insects (but *not*
cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
universally allergic to). 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:21:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sayat Seasonal Beverages

In mail you write:

> A cold-season festival drink, served all too frequently at Sayat consular
> parties.  They can't see why aliens don't like it; after all, it _is_ an
> alien cocktail, using alien materials.  What's the big problem?  Now,
> thanks to my contacts, the recipe is available for all to enjoy!
>
> Ingredients:
>    Bourbon (cheap is good)
>    Animal flesh (beef jerky is fine, the sort in long, thin hard strips)
>    Vanilla flavoring
>
> 1) Pour a big mugful of bourbon;
>
> 2) Nuke it till it's hot and steaming;
>
> 3) Add vanilla to suit your taste of irony;
>
> 4) Stir with dried meat (leave in mug; it beats a little umbrella);
>
> 5) Serve at once.

What's the problem? Other than the fact that heating bourbon wastes
perfectly good alcohol...

> Guaranteed to festivate any Traveller party.

Hey, *I* would at least try it.

What I have trouble convincing myself to try is kumiss (fermented milk,
preferably *mare's* milk). 

ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
there film? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2167
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 19 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2168



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Answers
FF&S Spreadsheet: New version available (1.6)
SSDS Design Spreadsheet - new version available.
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2159
All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Test, Ignore Please
Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!
Deckplans
Re(2): Traveller Combat System slow
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
Active sensors
re: Optimising Starships
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: IG going under
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: Traveller Combat System slow
RE: Water Closets of the Far Future!
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Droyne Beds and Toilets
Re : Optimising Starships
Space Combat Issues

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:46:21 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Answers

Leonard sayeth...
> ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
there film? :-)

Yeah, the Sayat's head on the K'kree's hoof

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:39:45 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: FF&S Spreadsheet: New version available (1.6)

The newest version of my FF&S spreadsheet is now available on my
Traveller web site.

Version 1.6 has no major new functionality - its a bug fix version :)

The web site is:
	www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm

The spreadsheet can be found in the Drydock section.

Thanks to all the people who have offred criticism and advice. I hope
you find the worksheet useful.

Next on the update list -
	As soon as the trav-tech guys hammer out the grapple rules from open
frame craft, I'll implement it.

- -- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:54:13 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: SSDS Design Spreadsheet - new version available.

A new version of my SSDS spreadsheet is now available. Version 1.1 is
primarily a bug fix and clean up...I've been busy working on the FF&S
spreadsheet and some Java programs. There is no new functionality.

It can be found on my Traveller site:

	www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm

The spreadsheet is on the Drydock page.

- -- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:11:32 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2159

>>I was so hopeful for TNE after
>>FF&S1.  They told you how things were done in the original Traveller and
>>MegaTraveller universes, told you what they changed and why, and then,
here's
>>the clinker, gave you ideas for other ways to do the same thing.
>     ^^^^^^^
>
>Freudian slip?

Not that I know of?

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:17:09 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

At 06:58 AM 12/18/97 EST, Peter Brenton wrote:
<Snip>
>...
>In both stores the product had good shelf space, both in terms of placement
>and quantity.
>
>More products are released each month, taking more space on shelves,
>attracting more buyers (a supported product with lots of supplements seems
>to me to be more likely to be bought by someone looking for a game they can
>play for awhile...as opposed to the many games I've seen with just one-two
>products).
>...

And don't forget appearance!  Seriously.  For all the toasting Chris Foss
gets on the TML for his T4 artwork (I'm not a big fan either), it's well
done, as game art goes - that is, it's competently drawn/painted, colorful,
action-filled, etc., and is much more professional looking than a lot of
the game art out there.  Sure, a T-whatever grognard will react "This isn't
Traveller art!", but to a newcomer with no well-formed opinions about what
is or isn't Traveller art, and with a few bucks with which to buy a game,
it's quite attractive.  More people who DIDN'T know about Traveller have
probably picked it up because of the artwork than veteran Traveller players
have dropped it because they couldn't bear the artwork... Every gameshop
owner to whom I've spoken in the Wash DC area has (with one exception, who
had no opinion) cited good artwork as a strong suite for T4, at least to
new gamers.  




Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:31:17 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

>To bring this *somewhat* back on topic, travellers are going to
>encounter some *strange* foods out there, even with pure human
>cultures.
>
>The above brought to mind the Roman delicacy of dormice in honey. Other
>"nummies" are things like fresh blood and milk mixed (An african tribe
>whose name I forget use this as a staple). 

The Masai.

Various insects (but *not*
>cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
>universally allergic to). 


Scott

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:39:02 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Test, Ignore Please

>Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>
>This is a test.   I don't seem to be receiving my own posts.
>
>Pete
>
>Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
>"Shiela-X where are you"

So what you are saying is that you are talking to yourself, but you 
don't hear anything?  So it is safe to assume that you are not answering 
yourself too, is it not?  8->




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:16:10 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!

>In mail you write:
>
<<Exactly. To extend that a bit further, I'd say that it is a cultural 
trait that we need privacy for those functions and not for others. There 
are probably cultures out there in the galaxy for which the expulsion of 
waste matter is done as a shared experience with the family, while the 
intake of fuel (i.e. food) is done in private.>>
>
>Heinlein, "Space Cadet"... The Venerians only recognized privacy for
>the purpose of eating. And the term was almost never used. Instead
>there were various circumlocutions used to describe "the act" (much
>like Westen culture and fucking).
>
>Picture the fun you'd have if your ship was hired by the Imperial
>government to carry a diplomatic delegation from a race like that.
>You'd have to put partitions in the mess room and rig some sort of
>"doors" for the cubicles thus formed...
>
>God help you if any of the crew chews gum or tobacco....
>

In The Gamester Wars (can't remember the author) there is a race called 
the Xarn.  They eat through a "feeding tube" appendage, and their food 
is the refuse of others.  So a constant expletive is "xarnfood!" for 
"shit!".  So therefore, the feeding troughs are disgusting to 
human/other races and their breath stinks (makes for interesting 
diplomatic relations/negotiations).  And on top of it all, Xarn are 
highly excitable, and when riled up, tend to regurgitate in a spray that 
gets on most everyone and everything nearby.

But it is one way to get rid of the stuff!

Greg
The Count of 
Montecristo@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:37:45 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Deckplans

anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman) says:


>

>OK heres my take on the NAM:

>Very nice illustrations with detailed chairs & stuff (compare to
>anything offered by GDW, really GDW maps generally sucked)...

 The Classic Traveller stuff was quite good, actually. No
furniture, but the stuff tends to move around anyway. If IG would
show Traders and Gunboats to whoever did NAM and tell them to
redo Starships, we might have a winner...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:38:40 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re(2): Traveller Combat System slow

Marc writes:
>Better definition of how weapons hurt people (more than just hitsO). For
>example, how do burns work, radiation, bright flashes (to blind), loud
>bangs
>(to deafen). Sonics, etc.
>Addressing environmental injuriesO cold, heat, 
>
- -----

I like this.  

This is one of the main reasons I'm seriously considering using The
Babylon Project as rules for my next Traveller campaign.  Well, that and
the fact that my gaming group has learned TBP rules, so we could start
with playing.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:31:16 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

>The illustrators are to 20th century Earth (US) centric. Exercise bikes and
>weightlifting stuff smell a tad low tech for me.

No to mention the cassegrain telescope as a navigational sensor...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:23:29 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

>> Or Stallone when faced with the three shells?
>
>Oh Lord! I'd forgotten that.=20
>
>I think the best part was that they left you wondering about *how* they
>were used!

And I thought ... why the ###### did they have to stop recording at THAT
moment? Why not wait about ten more seconds? Was that too much to ask?

:-)


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:46:30 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

>And don't forget appearance!  Seriously.  For all the toasting Chris Foss
>gets on the TML for his T4 artwork (I'm not a big fan either), it's well
>done, as game art goes - that is, it's competently drawn/painted, colorful,
>action-filled, etc., and is much more professional looking than a lot of
>the game art out there.  Sure, a T-whatever grognard will react "This isn't
>Traveller art!", but to a newcomer with no well-formed opinions about what
>is or isn't Traveller art, and with a few bucks with which to buy a game,
>it's quite attractive.  More people who DIDN'T know about Traveller have
>probably picked it up because of the artwork than veteran Traveller players
>have dropped it because they couldn't bear the artwork... Every gameshop
>owner to whom I've spoken in the Wash DC area has (with one exception, who
>had no opinion) cited good artwork as a strong suite for T4, at least to
>new gamers. =20

Well, I am one of those new gamers. I first saw Chris Foss artwork many
years ago, and I thought it was great. Then a few months ago I went to a
RPG store to  look for a SF RPG (I have a fantasy and a horror game
already). Guess what? When I saw the T4 rulebook, I picked it up right
away. I was not disappointed by neither the art nor the game itself. I will
be playing Traveller for a LONG time ...

As for art being "traveller" ... that depends on your personal opinion,
doesn't it? I view the Chris Foss art as "traveller" ...


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:30:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Active sensors

Not wishing to restart the flames on the piracy debate -

Why doesn't the Imperium insist that all commercial (ie non-military)
vessels operate with Active Sensors lit up all the time. Anything that
doesn't could then be assumed to be potentially hostile and intercepted or
avoided..

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:21:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Optimising Starships

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:

>In summary, a starship designer should look very carefully on when power
>will be needed before allocating ship space and mass to fusion power
>plants. Batteries may well be a more efficient solution.

Waxing lyrically to the past. One of the ways you could really soup up a HG
or MT ship was by playing with the power plants. Doing things like putting
in an additional plant for combat ops (much less fuel) could make quite a
difference. IIRC both the Traveller's Digest/MTj and Imperial Lines
recommended such an approach for MT.

Not having FFS2 handy, can you opt to avoid putting lifesupport into the
fuel tanks etc? That was another money saver...

There is more than one way to skin an Aslan, sorry, cat. ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:17:23 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

In a message dated 97-12-17 22:26:38 EST, you write:

<< I just had the most depressing (Traveller-wise) discussion with the 
 manager of my favourite FLGS today.
 
 	After hounding him about getting Imperial Squadrons (he said tomorrow, 
 maybe), I asked him how his sales of Traveller were doing.
 
 	His answer: that by now, they were only ordering one of every Traveller 
 product - for me. He actually asked for me to tell him about what products 
 I did want or didn't (I passed on one or two because they were of no use to 
 me).
 
 	After digging a little bit more, he said that when T4 first came out, 
 there were several people that specifically bought and ordered it, but over 
 time they had gotten so tired/ disgusted/ whatever with them poor quality, 
 that they were no longer interested.
 
 *sigh* >>

My FLGS is suffering from the same affliction.  They've put all Traveller
stuff in the "20% OFF" bins, to try and get it out of their store.

They got burned with the Traveller:TNE drek (with lots of copies still on the
shelf), so I don't know if they're willing to risk The New Error (T4).

Ithklur

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:29:48 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: IG going under

Fellow Travellers:

I must admit that I haven't purchased a single T4 item
based upon all the comments that I have read in the TML.

Every T4 "product" I have has been gleaned from your
critiques, better edited and well developed "amswers" to
the needs of the Traveller consumer, whether CT, MT or TNE
based.  Note:  I haven't gotten further than halfway thru
MT before costs and family responsibilities changed my
priorities.  Let's face facts.  A better product needs
to be produced.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:58:04 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

>I sort of ran into this problem in the adventure I'm currently writing for my
>party.  It is an Ancient research complex.  What would droyne-like toilets
>look like?  I've finally settled on round hollow stools with a small support
>for the lower back.  Each would be set a bit away from the walls because of
>the wings.

In "Twilight's Peak" Ancient loos were phased teleporters built into the
ground which would teleport any material in contact with it a millimetre at
a time.

If you want to stage an adventure at an Ancient research complex I doubt
you could do better than Twilight's Peak; Traveller adventure 3. This is an
incredible star-spanning quest tracking a centuries-lost ship across the
Spinward Marches, with the Ancients and hints of the Fifth Frontier War
thrown in for good measure. While the ending is rather contrived, IMHO, it
is still one of my favorites and in many ways the Canonical Traveller
Adventure. You could build an entire campaign around this one adventure.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:08:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:

> >> Or Stallone when faced with the three shells?
> >
> >Oh Lord! I'd forgotten that. 
> >
> >I think the best part was that they left you wondering about *how* they
> >were used!
> 
> And I thought ... why the ###### did they have to stop recording at THAT
> moment? Why not wait about ten more seconds? Was that too much to ask?
> 

To me, Traveller art will always have to be the quirky, black and white
line drawings that were in the original TAS magazines.  They may not have
been the best quality, but they either fit _into_ a story, or inspired a
story.  ;^)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin
e-mail: douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\
MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
*Unsolicited advertisements will be reported to the originating ISP*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:32:39 -0800
From: JayStr <jaystr@best.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Combat System slow

(snip)

All fine ideas... provided they don't get bogged down in the same
hellish complexity that the Inner Circle on the TML seem to regard as a
prerequisite for their version of futuristic 'realism'. One of the great
joys of CT was that you could play with a pencil and a pair of regular
old 6-sided dice. A calculator (the regular kind, NOT A $50 $%&%%^*
SCIENTIFIC ONE) was a luxury, not a necessity. We had a starship design
system you build grav fighters or dreadnaughts with in the early '80's.
I don't think that wanting one now is as unreasonable as the uber-geeks
have been telling me.

I'm a more-or-less starship/vehicle design nut, and have been hanging on
since before this time last year watching T4 unfold and hoping that
something concrete would eventually come of this unwieldy mess. I'm
writing you briefly to bang the drum for a user-friendly & comprehensive
starship design/combat system like we had when I first started playing
as a teenager.

I was not around on the TML at the time, but I understand that
originally the starship design system for T4 was to resemble High Guard;
then the hard-core T:NE fanatics screamed so loudly that they hastily
turned an about-face and decided to base the tech on the drove-the-
company-that-produced-it-bankrupt and utterly incomprehensible FF&S.
Too, I don't quite understand what IG was thinking of when they farmed
out the authorship of their books to a bunch of ultra-hard-core fans. It
was like Lucas handing over creative control of his next movie to a
bunch of no-real-life Star Wars freaks. You have seen the results in a
design system that is so goddam complicated that even THEY can't keep it
straight.

I don't blame IG for that. I lay the load for the end product squarely
on the people who wrote it, where it belongs. As a technical writer, I
take a dim view of the sorts of world-class inaccuracies and internal
contradictions that have plagued T4's (what is it? FOUR, now?)
starship/vehicle design systems -- not one of which is fully compatible
with any other. It is worth noting that Wildstar is one of the few
fan-gurus with any common sense at all; having produced the
(unfortunately also bug-ridden but still eminantly playable) plug & play
QSDS... and he works in tech support at a large firm.

I was heartened to hear that you had your hand back in and were
apparently re-establishing a degree of control over your own game
system. I would like to encourage you to keep it simple and
user-friendly, just as you did originally. The game-geeks and
self-appointed tech-heads will scream and yell and bombard you with
self-important advice regarding the 'realism' of any of your proposed
changes, because they seem to associate baroque complexity with internal
consistency, but I advise you to stay the course. I have seen your
handiwork, and I have seen theirs. I am pretty sure that I can live with
whatever you come up with. I have a wasted $120, a year's worth of
impotent frustration, and two cancelled (military-setting) campaigns
(timed to coincide with the release of Starships and FF&S2) to tell me
that the reverse is not necessarily true.

Give us our old Traveller back... or at least something resembling it.

Hanging tough since 1983,

- -- Jay Stranahan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:19:08 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: RE: Water Closets of the Far Future!

>Exactly. To extend that a bit further, I'd say that it is a cultural trait
>that we need privacy for those functions and not for others. There are
>probably cultures out there in the galaxy for which the expulsion of waste
>matter is done as a shared experience with the family, while the intake of
>fuel (i.e. food) is done in private.


	I don't know abut any cultures in Traveller that eat food in private, but 
the good 'ole K'kree do EVERYTHING in full view of others, including 
expulsion of waste.

	I've always wanted to do a scene in Traveller where the characters go to 
visit some K'kree noble. They go to his living area, and he invites them in 
and talks to them while in the midst of "mounting" one of his wives :-)

K.C. Komosky
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:27:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> 
>> Also, I think that there was more than a hint of Coeurl in there as
>> well (which btw was *definitely one of the influnces for the Star Trek
>> episode fans refer to as "The Incredible Salt Vampire" :-)
>> 
>> And both Ixitl, and Coeurls would make lovely things to let your
>> players discover the hard way. Consider "superdense" to be the "hull
>> metal" that was so important in both stories, and you are pretty much set.
>
>
> I also did Ixtls and Couerls as PC choices for races in my games.  No
> one ever picks them because they don't know what they do.  :)

Be glad I'm not in your games. I'd get this *evil* grin on my face,
then probably pick a Couerl. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:27:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Droyne Beds and Toilets

traveller@MPGN.COM,Internet writes:
>I sort of ran into this problem in the adventure I'm currently writing
>for my
>party.  It is an Ancient research complex.  What would droyne-like toilets
>look like?  I've finally settled on round hollow stools with a small
>support
>for the lower back.  Each would be set a bit away from the walls because
>of
>the wings.
>
>Droyne beds, on the other hand, are more confusing.  I've settled on a
>perch
>that runs around the perimeter of the room and is set 1 to 1.5 meters off
>the
>floor, in the barracks for the warriors the perch is higher then in the
>barracks for the other types.
>
- -----

Twilight's Peak has plans and descriptions for an entire Ancient base,
complete with weaponry and warriors.  One of my favourite Traveller
adventures from the Age of Innocence.  Writing from memory here (older
books are packed away during renovations):

The toilets were just patches of floor, with built-in
teleport/disintegrators (either a disintegrator, or a teleport to the
garbage, forget which).  They took off about a millimetre at a time, so
the pile would slowly disappear, as would any player who sat there and
activated it.  Which rather indicates that Droyne produce only solid waste.

Beds were, I believe, anti-gravity.

There were perches in the base, but I think they were in the exercise room.

One of my longer-term projects is to draw the Octagon and Ancient base as
colour deckplans (like I did for Shadows).  As a use-once, I've put it
lower on my list than finishing plans for Space 1889 ships that I can use
many times.  (At the moment, that is just the luxury liner.)  Take a look
at my Shadows plans
(http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/shadows.html) and
let me know if you could actually use an equivalent for the Ancient base. 
Enough votes and I'll move it up the priority list!
\

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:56:40
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re : Optimising Starships

Aaron, I'm using a somewhat battered playtest download of Traveller
Technical Architecture, otherwise known as Fire Fusion and Steel2 (my FLGS
doesnt stock it)

It's the gearhead design system - actually quantifies things in terms of
mass, volume, energy inputs and outputs etc, rather than just having
predesigned components.

I prefer using it, because I like pushing design systems places that you
wouldnt expect them to go.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:05:15
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Space Combat Issues

Couple more issues for space combat. If I've missed them somewhere, tell me.

(1) DV at range for nuke warheas in vacuum. This is a critical issue for
using nuke missiles for counter-missile work in space.

(2) Kinetic-kill warheads for missiles. Counterfire should take out even a
1cm^3 KK ball-bearing attacking a ship, but again they could be useful for
counter-missile work.

(3) Area of effect for a nuclear damper at 40-60 kk range. Light lag is
signifigant at 1/10 of a light second when the target is 1m2 or so in area
and can pull 8-10 gees.

(4) DV for nuke-det missiles when fired at greater than their "design" range.


Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2168
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 19 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2169



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Combat System slow
Adduxar
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
Re: Recoil experiments
RE: Water Closets of the Far Future!
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: Active sensors
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Sayat Seasonal Beverages
Ship Design systems
Re: Traveller Combat System slow
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
Complexity, and other issues
Aslan honour
Re: Import it into Traveller
Re: Answers
Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:29:13 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Combat System slow

At 07:32 PM 12/18/97 -0800, Jay wrote:
>(snip)
>
>All fine ideas... provided they don't get bogged down in the same
>hellish complexity that the Inner Circle on the TML seem to regard as a
>prerequisite for their version of futuristic 'realism'. One of the great
>joys of CT was that you could play with a pencil and a pair of regular
>old 6-sided dice. A calculator (the regular kind, NOT A $50 $%&%%^*
>SCIENTIFIC ONE) was a luxury, not a necessity. We had a starship design
>system you build grav fighters or dreadnaughts with in the early '80's.
>I don't think that wanting one now is as unreasonable as the uber-geeks
>have been telling me.

My.

If you'd care, I could forward you a few more ways to insult me.  For the
record, I have used FF&S (both versions) with a plain calculator and a
notepad on a moving train.  My current scientific calculator cost $19.95 at
McWohrters.

>I'm a more-or-less starship/vehicle design nut, and have been hanging on
>since before this time last year watching T4 unfold and hoping that
>something concrete would eventually come of this unwieldy mess. I'm
>writing you briefly to bang the drum for a user-friendly & comprehensive
>starship design/combat system like we had when I first started playing
>as a teenager.
>
>I was not around on the TML at the time, but I understand that
>originally the starship design system for T4 was to resemble High Guard;
>then the hard-core T:NE fanatics screamed so loudly that they hastily
>turned an about-face and decided to base the tech on the drove-the-
>company-that-produced-it-bankrupt and utterly incomprehensible FF&S.
>Too, I don't quite understand what IG was thinking of when they farmed
>out the authorship of their books to a bunch of ultra-hard-core fans. It
>was like Lucas handing over creative control of his next movie to a
>bunch of no-real-life Star Wars freaks. You have seen the results in a
>design system that is so goddam complicated that even THEY can't keep it
>straight.

I am hardly a "hard core TNE fanatic," as you so inelegantly put it, so
please do not generalize.  We did not scream, we pointed out the cons of
such a system, and several people volunteered to do QSDS for free.  along
with SSDS, and later FF&S2.  These were labors of love.  The idea was too
produce systems based on each other so you could choose the level of
difficulty you desire.  I like tinkering with the details, so I use FF&S.
My brother uses QSDS.  Guess which one of us has the engineering degree?

Imperium was probably thinking "thank God, these guys seem to understand
the damn game."  If you don't like what we write, write your own!  What
have you submitted?  I'm proud of my designs in Imperial Squadrons, and am
ashamed of what IG did to their presentation.  Once the holidays are
finished (I work in the travel industry, this is a bad time for out side
projects), I'm planning on sending the correct versions of all four ships
to the list.

What will you see?  The stats.  Size, crew, performance of drives and
weapons, armor.  *I* do the number crunching to provide a ship that will
stand up to the players when they start asking annoying questions like "how
many galleys on the Battleship?"  (On a Coronation class, there are 25.)

>I don't blame IG for that. I lay the load for the end product squarely
>on the people who wrote it, where it belongs. As a technical writer, I
>take a dim view of the sorts of world-class inaccuracies and internal
>contradictions that have plagued T4's (what is it? FOUR, now?)
>starship/vehicle design systems -- not one of which is fully compatible
>with any other. It is worth noting that Wildstar is one of the few
>fan-gurus with any common sense at all; having produced the
>(unfortunately also bug-ridden but still eminantly playable) plug & play
>QSDS... and he works in tech support at a large firm.

The writers have been forced to work under incredibly short deadlines.
QSDS was produced from scratch in a little under two weeks as I recall.
The producers of FF&S2 complained bitterly about the lack of playtest time.

You are aware that QSDS uses modules designed using FF&S, yes?  Your plug
and play system was built and made consistent by the very gearheads you
seem to despise!

>I was heartened to hear that you had your hand back in and were
>apparently re-establishing a degree of control over your own game
>system. I would like to encourage you to keep it simple and
>user-friendly, just as you did originally. The game-geeks and
>self-appointed tech-heads will scream and yell and bombard you with
>self-important advice regarding the 'realism' of any of your proposed
>changes, because they seem to associate baroque complexity with internal
>consistency, but I advise you to stay the course. I have seen your
>handiwork, and I have seen theirs. I am pretty sure that I can live with
>whatever you come up with. I have a wasted $120, a year's worth of
>impotent frustration, and two cancelled (military-setting) campaigns
>(timed to coincide with the release of Starships and FF&S2) to tell me
>that the reverse is not necessarily true.

Let me ask.. why don't you just make it all up?  "This is a Wundarbar class
Cruiser, it has lot's o'guns, and whatever is convenient for the scenario
I'm planning."

>Give us our old Traveller back... or at least something resembling it.

I will happily mail you a complete set of the little black books 1-5.

>Hanging tough since 1983,

Since 1977 here, and a proud gearhead.

- --

  Douglas E. Berry                              dberry@hooked.net
             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html
********************************************************************
Equation for finding the value of "chimp"                     .-"-.
                                                             /.-.-.\_
chimp=(a+x) + t6 (w+zm) - 4                                ( ( o o ) )
a is equal to the sum of the numbers in the current time     |/ " \|
(in military time) e.g. if the time is 17:22 then the value  \'---'/
of a=12, x is current temperature, t is # of turtles within  /`"""`\
one square mile (if any), w is size of wombat involved (in inches)
z is a reddish color, m is the ratio between your height relative
to the chimp in question.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:36:28 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Adduxar

Anybody have detailed information on the Adduxar race? All I have is:

Carnivorous reptilian race with small stellar empire of about 37 planets
met peacefully by the Zhodani as they expanded. Currently Zhodani
citizens with a 10 planet reservation.

I'm interested in anything else people may know about them, especially
if pictures are available.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:05:02 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

>As for art being "traveller" ... that depends on your personal opinion,
>doesn't it? I view the Chris Foss art as "traveller" ...

Well, no.  The pictures rarely, if ever, have anything to do with the actual
contents of the book.  Ships look a certain way, devices look a certain way,
and well, Foss's stuff was painted without Traveller in mind.  The pictures
epitomize the flavor of 70s sci-fi, but not Traveller.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:19:22 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

>In "Twilight's Peak" Ancient loos were phased teleporters built into the
>ground which would teleport any material in contact with it a millimetre at
>a time.

Sounds pretty clean and efficient.  It uses teleporters?  Where did it
teleport the stuff to, or was it left out on principal? :)

>If you want to stage an adventure at an Ancient research complex I doubt
>you could do better than Twilight's Peak; Traveller adventure 3. This is an
>incredible star-spanning quest tracking a centuries-lost ship across the
>Spinward Marches, with the Ancients and hints of the Fifth Frontier War
>thrown in for good measure. While the ending is rather contrived, IMHO, it
>is still one of my favorites and in many ways the Canonical Traveller
>Adventure. You could build an entire campaign around this one adventure.

There a couple of reasons I wouldn't:

1.)  I don't own it, and will start running this adventure in about 4 days.
2.)  I don't generally run pre-made adventures.  I prefer to write my
adventures with the PCs' abilities and skills in mind, and also with my own
campaign background in mind.
3.)  I'm not running a game in the Spinward Marches, I'm running a game in
Daibei, and the ending will tie in with another major plot-line that has
already been introduced.  (Basically, over 300,000 years ago, the Ancients ran
into another race that was seeking asylum from their overlords.  The Ancients
promised them a world, Harrison,  in what is now the Daibei system, near which
there was an ancient complex.  The terraforming gear that the other race had
sent was never set off, and the human colonists on Harrison accidentally
activated it.  The ancient complex is going to provide clues as to how to stop
the out-of-control terraforming gear, and clues as to the _other_ ancient
race, who the PCs will eventually meet).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:49:52 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: RE: Water Closets of the Far Future!

>        I've always wanted to do a scene in Traveller where the characters
>go to
>visit some K'kree noble. They go to his living area, and he invites them in
>and talks to them while in the midst of "mounting" one of his wives :-)
>
>K.C. Komosky
>umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca

In pre revolution France (and the rest of europe as well) enemas was the
current rage for curing various illnesss among the rich. Lady Antoinette
even held her audiences while receiving enemas!

Well perhaps we should change the subject...


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:40:45 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

>No to mention the cassegrain telescope as a navigational sensor...
>
>Bruce

My mind had supressed that. Wasn't it INSIDE the sensor op area?

<Court martial officer> "Why didn't our picket line pick up the Azhanti
cruiser until point blanc range?"

<Surviving crew> "Somebody had barfed in the external maintenance vaccsuit
so nobody wanted to do windowcleaning from the outside. Apparently a layer
of crushed bugs was on the sensorop canopy"

<Court martial officer> "You do realize that this is an airlocking* offense?"

*Airlocking is spacer slang for dumping someone in an airlock without suit
and then cycling it by remote. The officer lost 2 status points for
lowering his manner of speech to that of the crewmember.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:46:18 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Active sensors

>Not wishing to restart the flames on the piracy debate -
>
>Why doesn't the Imperium insist that all commercial (ie non-military)
>vessels operate with Active Sensors lit up all the time. Anything that
>doesn't could then be assumed to be potentially hostile and intercepted or
>avoided..
>
>Dom

In my universe the transponder is built into the active sensor (which all
ship carry by law). When the transponder thingy is lit by active sensor it
sends fin-number etc on the standard microwave frequency which is picked up
by the active sensor. Two ships that meet simply illuminate one another in
a sort of greeting ceremony - this is called "to ping somebody" in spacers
slang. Solomani says this comes from old submariner tradition but the
Vilani insists that it derives from the sound emitted from the console when
a ping is received.
 Scholars still debate this issue at cocktail parties.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:58:27 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>To bring this *somewhat* back on topic, travellers are going to
>encounter some *strange* foods out there, even with pure human
>cultures.
>
>The above brought to mind the Roman delicacy of dormice in honey. Other
>"nummies" are things like fresh blood and milk mixed (An african tribe
>whose name I forget use this as a staple). Various insects (but *not*

The Maasai are the most popularly known for this, but IIRC it's fairly
widespread among East African and Nilotic pastoral peoples.  ObTrav:
Shamelessly ripped off for the Sayat.

>cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
>universally allergic to).

Birds' nest soup is essentially hardened swallows' drool, I guess.  The
contents of grazing animals' stomachs and colons is a basic foodstuff in
some places, and a delicacy in others.  Rotting walrus blubber was a staple
in coastal NE Siberia.  Raw wheat flour mixed with (stale, reheated) fish
oil and served in vats was festival food along the American NW coast in
early colonial times.  (Again, shamelessly ripped off for the Sayat.
Proudly doing _my_ part to counter the notion that women belong in the
kitchen.)

Of course, closer to home:  Haggis.  Tripe.  Spam.  "Olive loaf".  Kidneys.
Cheese.


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:58:32 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Sayat Seasonal Beverages

Leonard Erickson wrote:

[snip]
>What's the problem? Other than the fact that heating bourbon wastes
>perfectly good alcohol...

Just inhale the fumes... er, vapors...

You're right, it boils off a lot of alcohol content, unfortunately.  That's
why you serve it in a mug, though.  The vanilla flavoring creates a...
hm... "worthwhile", let's say, experience, and beef jerky is a perfect foil
for it.

>> Guaranteed to festivate any Traveller party.
>
>Hey, *I* would at least try it.
>
>What I have trouble convincing myself to try is kumiss (fermented milk,
>preferably *mare's* milk).

It's not that bad.  But I'm biased -- I'm allergic to the organic crud
floating around in beer and most wines, so kumiss is the only non-distilled
alcohol I've been able to drink without dire effects.  It definitely leaves
a distinct odor of digestion afterwards... but no worse than beer.

I actually have a couple of Lovecraftian drink recipes, including the
seasonally-appropriate "Nog-Sothoth", if anyone's interested...  Not for
the faint of heart or tasteful of palate.

>ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
>there film? :-)

Sayat don't invite livestock to diplomatic functions -- much less party
with them.  That's UNNATURAL!!!


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:32:27 -0600
From: "Mark Laney" <cowhead@scott.net>
Subject: Ship Design systems

This is in response to Re:trav combat slow thread but I thought that the
title didn't reflect what was being discussed so I renamed it. I understand
what was being said about rushe deadlines concerning the systems. But the
way I see it is that Jay is right all the current systems for ship design
are inadequate. I don't think that it is a basic flaw of the systems idea
or intents just in the form of the presentation and ease of use.
I do not believe that it is possible to walk into your local hobby store
and buy a copy of ANY of the design systems with no prior knowledge of
traveller and effectively design a ship. This is due to a myriad of reasons.
I while there may be those that disagree I seriously doubt whether they
have carefully looked at the systems then as if they were trying to use
them for the first time. We all know that essential charts have been left
out or mislabeled or not put anywhere near other related charts in the
design system. All of the systems have failed to offer careful concise and
clearly written explanations of the basic premises that they entail. Much
less a useable flow chart for design. I have yet to be happy with any
designs that I have seen in T4. But at that level I think that my
unhappiness is a reflection also of a starship combat system that has the
same flaws as the design systems themselves. 
  What is really needed is a whole reworking of the starship portion of the
game. Design should follow form. The system should link easily to a
starship combat system  that lends itself to easy play. The basic character
generation system in realitively simple. The skill use system is elagent
and simple. The character combat system is also relatively uncluttered. The
trade and commerce is direct and easy.
All of these require a modicum of tables, common sense, and paperwork. Why
should the spacecraft design and combat system be any different. Part of
the beauty of Traveller is that the system does not get in the way of
telling the stories. All that I want is a Spacesystem that is the same.
Even the maps of subsectors elegantly tell their tales without bogging the
game down. I just recently returned to the sci-fi genre of rpg and
remembered the traveller tha tI had learned to play with all my old high
school buddies. I purchased T4 hoping to see an improved ruleset. I did
except for the ship systems.
   Obviously the game system has changed in many ways since I first played
the game in the late 70's and early 80's, but the game mechanics all had
the same flavor. I think that is what is missing with the current
hodgepodge of ship rules. I could be happy with any systems as long as it
kept the feel of the game. I don't know how to make the multiple ruleset
for ships do that now, but obviously someone should. I think that it is up
to us the players to come up with the right recipe of design and combat
rules to keep the flavor that made traveller the game that it was while
moving forward towards the game it can be.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:10:15 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Combat System slow

>joys of CT was that you could play with a pencil and a pair of regular
>old 6-sided dice. A calculator (the regular kind, NOT A $50 $%&%%^*
>SCIENTIFIC ONE) was a luxury, not a necessity. We had a starship design

Yeah, I guess you wouldn't need a scientific calculator...  unless of course
you were using Book 6:  Scouts.  At which point it wouldn't just be a luxury,
but a necessity to use any of the formulas within.

>system you build grav fighters or dreadnaughts with in the early '80's.
>I don't think that wanting one now is as unreasonable as the uber-geeks
>have been telling me.

Now this is just idiotic, and reflects quite badly on you.  Now, I know you're
going to say, "Well I don't care" but it does.  It sucks to see the criticism
that floats around on this list degenerate into outright insults.

High Guard was a very cool product.  The simplicity is its boon and its curse.
Boonwise, you could make a ship in a very short time.  The downside, you were
tied to the system and had no freedom to break out.  The system was not
consistent with the ground vehicles created, and there was no baseline on
which to measure the technology of the Traveller universe.

>I was not around on the TML at the time, but I understand that
>originally the starship design system for T4 was to resemble High Guard;

I haven't been around all too long either, only since the mid-summer or so.
However, from what I can gather  from reading throught digests, this wasn't
the case.  I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong.  However, the ship
_profiles_ were supposed to be like the old High Guard profiles, if I remember
right.

>then the hard-core T:NE fanatics screamed so loudly that they hastily
>turned an about-face and decided to base the tech on the drove-the-
>company-that-produced-it-bankrupt and utterly incomprehensible FF&S.

I think this ground has been gone over a few times already.  FF&S didn't drive
GDW into the ground or cause them to go bankrupt.  Unfortunate occurences both
in the industry as a whole and between GDW and TSR served to put them out of
business.

When I got FF&S originally, I had no real higher math background, just high
school math, and I found it extremely easy to use.  No problems whatsoever.
Hardly incomprehensible in my book.

>Too, I don't quite understand what IG was thinking of when they farmed
>out the authorship of their books to a bunch of ultra-hard-core fans. It

Oh, I see.  Better to farm out the authorship to people who have never even
seen the game in their entire lives?  Not sure exactly what you're getting at
here.  Die-hard fans are the perfect resource for a role-playing game.

>was like Lucas handing over creative control of his next movie to a
>bunch of no-real-life Star Wars freaks. You have seen the results in a
>design system that is so goddam complicated that even THEY can't keep it
>straight.

Hmmm...  Wow.  You sound pretty peeved here.  To me, bitching and moaning
about what vehicle design system a game uses really makes you sound like the
one with no-real-life.  Kind of like the people who write into music magazines
and all they can say is "I think that <name of band> sucks!  They just suck.
Why do you cover such a terrible band in your magazine?  I was thinking about
renewing my subscription, but no way now."

I can keep the design systems straight with no real strain on my otherwise
generally pretty busy life.  Now, don't like the systems?  Then don't use
them.  I would guess you own High Guard?  If so, then use that instead.
Nobody's stopping you.

I use whatever system supports what I need at the moment.  When I need a
vehicle fast, I pull out CSC.  When I want to spend a little more time and
have greater flexibilty, I pull out FF&S2.  No problem keeping those two
straight at all.  I usually default to FF&S2, because I can build a plasma
cannon, a laser turret, a handgun, a grav tank, or a scout ship using the same
book.

>The game-geeks and self-appointed tech-heads will scream and yell and bombard
>you with self-important advice regarding the 'realism' of any of your
proposed >changes, because they seem to associate baroque complexity with
internal >consistency

Isn't this exactly what you're doing, just in reverse?  "Ohhhh, I've been into
Traveller longer, I know what's right and what's wrong here!"  Everyone has
their own opinions, I just think that the way yours is expressed makes you
sound like you'd got a bug up your butt.  Unable or unwilling to speak
rationally, you result to completely uncalled-for insults for no real apparent
reason.

Seriously, what the hell are you accomplishing here?  I can understand you
having concerns about the future of the game.  I think its safe to say most of
us have a thorn in our sides about one thing or another having to do with T4,
and have a vision for the future of the game.  Most of us don't have to resort
to insults to get our points across, however.

I have, and will, stand by FF&S and FF&S2.  Sure, the guns come out a little
heavy, and the vehicles aren't absolutely perfect...  But both have their
high-points.  FF&S2 goes into detail about a number of things in the Traveller
universe, and the original gives alternate technologies for use by GMs who
don't want to play in the "normal" Imperial campaign setting.  The only
problem with FF&S2 is that there was a major typographical error that was
repeated throughout the book.  However, once you know what the error is (and
its pretty simple to figure out) it takes almost no thought to substitute an *
for every ->|<- funky symbol.

Well, whatever...

Nothing I say is going to stop your moaning, so I guess I better stop wasting
my time.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:07:56 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

>Well, no.  The pictures rarely, if ever, have anything to do with the actual
>contents of the book.  Ships look a certain way, devices look a certain way,
>and well, Foss's stuff was painted without Traveller in mind.  The pictures
>epitomize the flavor of 70s sci-fi, but not Traveller.
>
>Semo

Well Traveller IS 70s sci-fi wether you like it or not and Mr Miller
probably had images from Foss in his mind when writing the sacred three
books.(Almost every author at the time had covers by Foss; Poul Anderson,
Asimov etc)

The best covers for Traveller stuff was the WBH: Nice looking and actually
depicting gamerelated stuff. The same goes with most covers of the Digest.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:49:15
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Complexity, and other issues

I just canned my reply to Mr Strachan's post. This is the revised version.

********************************************************
Mr Strachan,

Use of FFS is not compulsory. Feel free to use QSDS for things that go past
gravity wells, and the Vehicle Design System for things that dont.

It is the sincere hope of us gearheads that when QSDS, SSDS and VDS are
rebuilt for Trav 4.1, all components that these systems use will be able to
be built under FFS2, in order to ensure consistency across and between
systems.

Ian Whitchurch
*********************************************************

Next, during a frustrating week at work, I re-browsed the THUDDD competitions.

A big hand of applause for all the fans who did such magnificent work.

If the will is there, we have a rip-and-read job for articles for a
Traveller magazine. Hell, we have a supplement ... Traders and Gunboats
(Frontier Traders and Lo-Tech SDBs ... anyone taking bets on an Elisabeth
against any of the locals ?). And then we have another one - "Dogs of War -
Mercenary Cruisers and Fighters".

Heck, if we are really enthusiastic, then how about we do up a set of
scenarios involving these ships ... a PC party in a Recollet, heading out
for the Lambeth Cluster, with nothing but a 2000 year old datatape and a
hold full of slightly-used, only-one-owner grav tanks ... signed on on a
mercenary ticket helping defend the Kaneshi Empire against a force of
high-tech (1) raiders, allegedly from outside the fledgeling Imperium but
in reality tools of the nefarious IISS.

And by the time they're printed, we'll have "Money Sinks of the Early Third
Imperium - Lab Ships and Subsidised Merchants".

OK, big hand for everybody, and Diiitzie's frieeeend Michaellllll just
passed her the money from the contractors trying for the repair contract
for Famile Spofulam's grav car fleet, so the drinks are on Hengie.
Indirectly at least.

Ian Whitchurch

(1) Hey, this is the frontier .... TL11 is high tech :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:38:58 +1100
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Aslan honour

Hi all,

While discussing Alsan honour with my fiance, we came upon a situation
which we can't resolve to our satisfaction. She is planning on playing a
female Aslan who owns a free trader with a human crew (the rest of the
PCs). The problem we came up with is this:  According to the Aslan Alien
Module 1 (CT) under the rules of duelling, males and females do not duel
each other. For example, if a male insults a female, the female would
usually ignore the insult as part of male 'ignorance'. However if the
insult was too great to be ignored, the nearest male member of her clan
will issue a challenge in her place. The problem is, what if there is no
male member of her clan for several subsectors? Would she ignore the insult
given her despite it's being 'too great to ignore' or would she issue a
challenge herself.  Both seem to go against the Aslan code of honour.

Thanks for any ideas you can give us.

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:30:07 EST
From: VargrA8C7A <VargrA8C7A@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Import it into Traveller

  About using other games' adventures in Traveller.
I have used stuff from GDW's 2300 AD game.  Their modules are
very compatible with Traveller.  I also liked the Kafers(spider-like humanoid
race)
and am using them in my campaign.  I also have a lot of TSR's Star Frontiers
stuff.
It doesn't take much modification to use their adventure modules.  I'm also
going
to incorperate some aliens into my game from TSR's Alternity game.
                                             VargrA8C7A

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:36:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Answers

In mail you write:

>
> Leonard sayeth...
>> ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
> there film? :-)
>
> Yeah, the Sayat's head on the K'kree's hoof

Followed, no doubt, by one of the Sayat's companions inserting a PMPP
into an inapropriate orifice on the K'kree?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:28:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!

In mail you write:

> In The Gamester Wars (can't remember the author) there is a race called 
> the Xarn.  They eat through a "feeding tube" appendage, and their food 
> is the refuse of others.  So a constant expletive is "xarnfood!" for 
> "shit!".  So therefore, the feeding troughs are disgusting to 
> human/other races and their breath stinks (makes for interesting 
> diplomatic relations/negotiations).  And on top of it all, Xarn are 
> highly excitable, and when riled up, tend to regurgitate in a spray that 
> gets on most everyone and everything nearby.

Almost as much fun as the Pak'mra from Babylon 5. (They're the ones
who eat dead bodies)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:21:24 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:

> Well, I am one of those new gamers. I first saw Chris Foss artwork many
> years ago, and I thought it was great. Then a few months ago I went to a
> RPG store to  look for a SF RPG (I have a fantasy and a horror game
> already). Guess what? When I saw the T4 rulebook, I picked it up right
> away. I was not disappointed by neither the art nor the game itself. I will
> be playing Traveller for a LONG time ...
> 
> As for art being "traveller" ... that depends on your personal opinion,
> doesn't it? I view the Chris Foss art as "traveller" ...

At first I want to say that I like Fossie's art, too. But I do not 
consider it as Traveller art, as I got some of the pictures on other 
products than Traveller. (For example, the triangular ship with the 
checkered Hull flying away from the viewer I have got as a title on a 
little book about Spacefaring that a german magazine brought out some ten 
years ago.)

Nevertheless, it seems to me that IG found a way of enhancing the grey 
style of the old Traveller items. Those lined graphics reminded me too 
much of those in Pery Rhodan Magazines, if you know them. I did not like 
them either. But the interior art of T4 by (losthisname...) pleases me.
What I wanted to see back on line are the drawings of  DGP's late 
material. The Aslan pictures in the MT Alien Module and the equipment 
illustrations were the best Traveller art for me! 

L.A.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2169
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 19 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2170



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!
Re: Space Combat Issues
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: Aslan honour
Flame wars & other disagreements
Damage
Re: Active Sensors
Traveller books?
Re: Ship Design systems
Re: Traveller books?
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
Re: Flame wars & other disagreements
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
Re: Answers
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Aslan Honor
Non-Trav Update:  One Sheet
Re: Ship Design systems

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:30:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Water Closets of the Far Future!

In mail you write:

>     I've always wanted to do a scene in Traveller where the characters go to 
> visit some K'kree noble. They go to his living area, and he invites them in 
> and talks to them while in the midst of "mounting" one of his wives :-)

There's a story in one issue of XXXenophile (a truly *silly* adult
comic by Phil Foglio) where as some aliens are talking to the Terran
representative, his wife comes in, undresses and proceeds to have sex
with him while he tries to keep a straight face and keep up the
conversation. 

As the aliens leave, one is *very* upset. Not at the Terrans. At a
couple members of his delegation who were "playing around" while he was
talking. If you go back and look you can see a few unimportant gestures
and touches.

In short, with *real* aliens, they may not recognize when you are
having sex and you may not recognize when they are.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:14:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Space Combat Issues

In mail you write:

> Couple more issues for space combat. If I've missed them somewhere, tell me.
>
> (1) DV at range for nuke warheas in vacuum. This is a critical issue for
> using nuke missiles for counter-missile work in space.

Depends on what sort of "damage" you are talking about. For example a
medium sized nuclear warhead turns out to be *lethal* to unshielded
personnel at something like 10-15 *thousand* km!

This is because 90% of the energy output of a nuke is X-rays. In an
atmosphere, they get absorbed within a few meters, heat the air to the
extreme temps you see in the fireballs, and causing the blast wave as
the air expands.

For material damage, you'll need to be close enough to absorb enough
xrays to "cook" electronics, or overheat the hull. At *really* close
ranges the X-ray pulse out to cause an outer layer of the hull to
vaporise, doing blast damage to the hiull. But I suspect that the range
required for that is well under a km.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 05:14:51 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >>
> >> Also, I think that there was more than a hint of Coeurl in there as
> >> well (which btw was *definitely one of the influnces for the Star Trek
> >> episode fans refer to as "The Incredible Salt Vampire" :-)
> >>
> >> And both Ixitl, and Coeurls would make lovely things to let your
> >> players discover the hard way. Consider "superdense" to be the "hull
> >> metal" that was so important in both stories, and you are pretty much set.
> >
> >
> > I also did Ixtls and Couerls as PC choices for races in my games.  No
> > one ever picks them because they don't know what they do.  :)
> 
> Be glad I'm not in your games. I'd get this *evil* grin on my face,
> then probably pick a Couerl.
>

Actually you COULD be in my game.  :)

go to : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/index.html

then click on "Current Game" for details.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:10:43 EST
From: RSpake2064 <RSpake2064@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan honour

Actually,
i played a human pilot who worked for a female Aslan who was in a simular
situtation.  she would have made the challenge herself...  but i beat her to
it.  and did i fight very dirty.  (A very large jar of fleas...  a bag of
iching powder- industrial strength...  and a couple other stff i cant remeber
right now...)  

if the humans (PCs) understand th3e Aslan  society well enough they will fill
in for the Aslan females clan (it whould be an honour to act in your behalf my
lady...)

just remeber...  those aslan's are bigger tahn you...  so cheat.

Richard

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:33:43 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Flame wars & other disagreements

Funny thing, flame wars. I argue/debate with people all the time. 
The aim is to expore one another's vviewpoint, understand and reject/accept
their agrument.

Except, of course, over the Internet.

I think there are quite a number of people who, like me, are tired of the
rantings of people who, safe at their consoles, feel the need to say things
that would, in the real world, elicit either a punch or a sharp termination
of aquaintance. Cheap insults are easy to fling, when you're safe in your
home six thousand miles from the recipient. Roll on the day someone invents
the Virtual Headbutt (tm).

Hmmm. Right. Is it me or is the list getting a bit hysterical?

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:28:15 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Damage

We had an interesting debate the other night, about how falling damage
should be taken, and about damage in general. The best points are listed:

1. Falling damage. It's like weapons damage, unless it's a minor fall with
people watching. In this case the character takes damage to SOC due to
sniggers for the next day or so.

2. Fencing. Being made to look like a clumsy idiot by your opponent is also
damaging to SOC.

3. You can attack someone's EDU at very long range - say over the Internet
- - by continually telling them they're wrong about funadmental facts (and
'proving' it). The result is a confusion which reduces EDU.

4. Oh, and you can reduce INT by hitting them over the head.

What an excellent group of players I have, that they can come up with this
all by themselves!

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Active Sensors

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
> Not wishing to restart the flames on the piracy debate -
> Why doesn't the Imperium insist that all commercial (ie non-military)
> vessels operate with Active Sensors lit up all the time. Anything that
> doesn't could then be assumed to be potentially hostile and intercepted or
> avoided..

Well, because it does (but not exactly).  That's what a transponder* is for.

This is a device that the Imperium requires on all starships.  A transponder
is a simple electronic device that "listens" for active sensor
transmissions.  When it recieves one, it broadcasts a brief message.  This
message contains the ship's registration number, and possibly other data.  The
effect of this is to increase the effective range of the active sensor and
provide the identity of all of the ships detected by that sensor.

Thus, a ship or ground station with an operating active sensor can "see" all
of the ships in the area.  If the "additional data" in the transponder
message includes the ship's vector, then _all_ ships in the area can know
where each other are, too.

Traffic control and the military assume that any spacecraft not showing a
transponder is engaged in something hostile or (at very least) illegal.
The Imperial Navy has been known to adopt a "shoot first and ask questions
later" policy towards ships in frontier areas that don't show a transponder.

In my games, the transponders broadcast the registry number and the ship's
vector.  The registry number is coded so that you can tell if the ship is
military, civilian, or foreign, and for civilian ships, a code also
indicates the world where the ship was registered.  Non-military
transponders are checked during a ship's annual maintenance.  The
transponder electronics are hooked into the ship's flight recorder
system, and are similarly tamper-resistant.

All spacecraft have transponders and a transponder-compatible
active sensor.  Some non-ship objects (such as space stations, navigational
hazards, and inhabited planetoids) also have transponders (the minimum
definition of a class-D starport is a transponder and a patch of bedrock to
put it on).  Traffic control (class-C starports or better) also has a
transponder-compatible active sensor.

Non-military transponders can be turned "off", but the ID and data
transmitted can't be changed.  Military vessels (Imperial, local, and
appropriately-licensed mercenary units) are capable of generating any
transponder data they wish to present. 

Black-market transponders that are capable of generating false information
are clearly desirable to smugglers and other criminals.  They are sometimes
available to civilian purchasers.  The installation of such a device would
require specialized tools and knowledge - available by bribing starport
employees, or finding someone who can do the work on the sly.  There are
roumors that subsector-wide or larger shipping corporations (Oberlindes,
Al-Morai, Tukera) have military-style transponders installed on some of
their "special cargoes" ships.


* NOTE that I'm ignoring the entire T:TNE transponder/virus stupidity.  In
  my games, at least, a transponder is a simple electronic device that
  responds to certain active sensor transmissions.  No silicon lifeforms,
  AI electronics, direct computer access, or other sillyness.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!
h

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:41:02 +0200 (EET)
From: Hakan Koseoglu <hkose@ada.com.tr>
Subject: Traveller books?

Here in Turkey Traveller is unheard. I am lurking in the list for about a
year and I definitely want to play. Which books must I order, and from
where? Any help will be appreciated.

							Hakan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:27:47 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Ship Design systems

In a message dated 97-12-19 04:50:13 EST, you write:

<< I don't think that it is a basic flaw of the systems idea
 or intents just in the form of the presentation and ease of use. >>

I agree.

The Traveller ship design system has to be 

1. Integrated with the combat system (in the sense that the combat system has
to be understandable so people know what poarts to put in their ship).

2. Chart based, so designers can turn to the information they need and find it
(and understand it).

3. Driven by a checklist, and supported by a usable, user friendly form,

4. Supported by a reasonable format for the ship card / USP so one can
understand what that means, and

5. supported by examples.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:38:53 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Traveller books?

Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
>=20
> Here in Turkey Traveller is unheard. I am lurking in the list for about=
 a
> year and I definitely want to play. Which books must I order, and from
> where? Any help will be appreciated.
>

It would be best to order one of the main rulebooks.
I would recommend to start with the MegaTraveller Boxed set as this can
be aquired quite cheap nowadays and it contains all the rules and a lot
of background as well.

On the other hand, if you want to be fully compatible (MT is, but only
to a certain degree) with the latest releases by IG, i would recommend
waiting for the New Traveller 4 (Marc Millers Traveller) Rulebook,
version 4.1, which isn=B4 t out yet, release-date undetermined!

And finally, welcome! Always glad to see a new european Traveller!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:35:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Kenji Schwartz wrote;
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
<snip>
> The Maasai are the most popularly known for this, but IIRC it's fairly
> widespread among East African and Nilotic pastoral peoples.  ObTrav:
> Shamelessly ripped off for the Sayat.

Ny ancestors (and not so ancestors...) the Irish and Scots, used to eat 
something called (I forget), which was basically porridge or gruel mixed 
with sheep's blood for protein.

(blood is a pretty good source of protein (not as good as others), and 
the advantage to it is that it is self regenerating source (as long as 
you don't over-bleed, the critter doesn't get an infection (or otherwise 
die, in which case you have mutton) and you have dead grass to feed it :-)
 
> >cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
> >universally allergic to).

and, of course, the fact that they are the second grossest critters on 
the planet (after spiders) has nothing to do with it...

> Rotting walrus blubber was a staple in coastal NE Siberia.  

As well as Alaska.
 
> Of course, closer to home:  Haggis.  Tripe.  Spam.  "Olive loaf".  Kidneys.
> Cheese.
> 

All going to prove that Mssr. Long's maxim about blue mud isn't always as 
easy to follow as it would at first seem... in fact, cultural mores about 
food may be harder to suss out and deal with than almost any others 
(except sexual interactions).

Throwing a party in a new society, and having the natives eat something 
that the party finds utterly revolting (without going so far as, say, 
dead baby eyes) is a good way to see just how diplomatic they can be as 
they try to say "thanks, no" without either trapping themselves in some 
intolerable lie, or some intolerable faux pas.

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:06:02 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

>Well Traveller IS 70s sci-fi wether you like it or not and Mr Miller
>probably had images from Foss in his mind when writing the sacred three
>books.(Almost every author at the time had covers by Foss; Poul Anderson,
>Asimov etc)

I knew when I said that Foss's stuff epitomizes 70s sci-fi I was going to get
a response like this :)  While Traveller may be a child of 70s sci-fi, 70s
sci-fi is not Traveller.  What I meant, and I believe I stated was that Foss
drew this stuff years ago.  Very little of it has the flavor of the Traveller
universe, in my opinion.  The giant claws rising up out of the ice-covered
ocean menacing the giant, phallic device is a perfect example.  Technically,
the picture is competent and decent enough, and Foss gets an amazing level of
detail in his stuff.  I just don't think its very Traveller.

>The best covers for Traveller stuff was the WBH: Nice looking and actually
>depicting gamerelated stuff. The same goes with most covers of the Digest.

Since I don't have the WBH, nor have I had the opportunity to see it, I can't
comment.  My personal favorites for cover art were the little-black books, and
I'm not kidding.  The covers just look really neat.  I think I like the ones
without the wide band at the bottom better though.

Otherwise, I like the MegaTraveller Ref's Manual quite a bit, and the cover
for the TNE's Vampire Fleets looked pretty cool too.  Probably my least
favorite Traveller book cover was Encounters in the Ventura Quadrant, by Group
One.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:01:33 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

Lars Adler wrote:

> Nevertheless, it seems to me that IG found a way of enhancing the grey
> style of the old Traveller items. Those lined graphics reminded me too
> much of those in Pery Rhodan Magazines, if you know them. I did not like
> them either. But the interior art of T4 by (losthisname...) pleases me.
> What I wanted to see back on line are the drawings of  DGP's late
> material. The Aslan pictures in the MT Alien Module and the equipment
> illustrations were the best Traveller art for me!
> 
> L.A.


I never saw the Perry Rhodan magazines, but I read some of the books. 
(from #1 to #100 or so).
I still have 2 copies of #1 and a copy of #2.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:07:00 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Flame wars & other disagreements

MJ Dougherty wrote:

> Funny thing, flame wars. I argue/debate with people all the time.
> The aim is to expore one another's vviewpoint, understand and reject/accept
> their agrument.

> Except, of course, over the Internet.

The trouble is that email doesn't effectively convey the mood and tone of the
sender. Thus the words sent are open to misinterpretation. The use of emoticons
reduces, but does not eliminate, these misinterpretations.

> Hmmm. Right. Is it me or is the list getting a bit hysterical?

Not hysterical, IMO, just passionate.

I have discovered, over the years, that one effective way to avoid people
taking things personally is to avoid the use of the word "you" in
communication. This works in conversation or email.  Also, judicious use of
terms like "I feel", "in my opinion", and "if I understand things right", also
soothe the wounded ego.

For example, let's say that two people, A and B, are having an email debate
about the nature of fog. Here's the wrong way to do it:

A: Of course, fog is really just a low-lying cloud. If you can't see that, then
you don't know much about meteorology.
B: Well, obviously you don't know me very well. Fogs are really an
interdimensional gateway. Just ask Larry Niven!

Each person is taking shots at the other. Here's the right way to do it:

A: The way I understand it, fog is really just low-lying clouds. Am I wrong
here?
B: Well, in my opinion, Larry Niven pegged it exactly, stating that fog is an
interdimensional gateway. That's just how I feel about it.

Very non-confrontational.

This is, after all, just my opinion. I try to use these guidelines when I
email, especially when I'm a little hot under the collar.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:21:10 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

Bill Rutherford wrote:

>And don't forget appearance!  Seriously.  For all the toasting Chris Foss
>gets on the TML for his T4 artwork (I'm not a big fan either), it's well
>done, as game art goes - that is, it's competently drawn/painted, colorful,
>action-filled, etc., and is much more professional looking than a lot of
>the game art out there.  Sure, a T-whatever grognard will react "This isn't
>Traveller art!", but to a newcomer with no well-formed opinions about what
>is or isn't Traveller art, and with a few bucks with which to buy a game,
>it's quite attractive.  More people who DIDN'T know about Traveller have
>probably picked it up because of the artwork than veteran Traveller players
>have dropped it because they couldn't bear the artwork... Every gameshop
>owner to whom I've spoken in the Wash DC area has (with one exception, who
>had no opinion) cited good artwork as a strong suite for T4, at least to
>new gamers.

The main problem with Foss' work being published in Traveller books is that
most if not all of the work was chosen from stock paintings. As far as I
know, *none* of it was specifically done for Traveller, but rather was
chosen from among Foss' already completed sci-fi pieces.

The work is well done, but I'm in agreement with those of you who are
against it: It just isn't Traveller. More like Star Wars.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:44:58 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Answers

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
>>
>> Leonard sayeth...
>>> ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
>> there film? :-)
>>
>> Yeah, the Sayat's head on the K'kree's hoof
>
>Followed, no doubt, by one of the Sayat's companions inserting a PMPP
>into an inapropriate orifice on the K'kree?

<stepping sadly down from the position of resident TravPerv...>

Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:45:16 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Scott Taylor:

>All going to prove that Mssr. Long's maxim about blue mud isn't always as
>easy to follow as it would at first seem... in fact, cultural mores about
>food may be harder to suss out and deal with than almost any others
>(except sexual interactions).

Maximize the efficiency of cultural discomfort by combining the two.

"You make children eat _carrots_?  You sick, perverted bastards..."

"People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
(blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).

Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:37:23 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan Honor

Jason Anderson wrote:

>While discussing Alsan honour with my fiance, we came upon a situation
>which we can't resolve to our satisfaction. She is planning on playing a
>female Aslan who owns a free trader with a human crew (the rest of the
>PCs). The problem we came up with is this:  According to the Aslan Alien
>Module 1 (CT) under the rules of duelling, males and females do not duel
>each other. For example, if a male insults a female, the female would
>usually ignore the insult as part of male 'ignorance'. However if the
>insult was too great to be ignored, the nearest male member of her clan
>will issue a challenge in her place. The problem is, what if there is no
>male member of her clan for several subsectors? Would she ignore the insult
>given her despite it's being 'too great to ignore' or would she issue a
>challenge herself.  Both seem to go against the Aslan code of honour.

Aslan honor and dueling, I think, are sometimes overrated. A society
founded on fisticuffs every time someone perceives an insult would degrade
into chaos quite quickly.

I think that 99 percent of Aslan "duels" are of the "war of insults"
variety. Now, a war of insults need not be, "Aw, your mama sleeps in her
kitty litter!" I think they're more like boisterous intellectual debates,
perhaps somewhat akin to Crossfire on CNN. The "duelist" who is the most
clever will win when the less clever duelist recognizes defeat.

An Aslan will concede defeat rather than escalating a disagreement beyond
where it should be. The resultant loss of face for losing a war of insults
is much less than if he engages in an unnecessary violent duel.

Therefore, should your female Aslan become insulted, perhaps her clan
patriarch would engage in a "war of insults" via interstellar courier.
Perhaps this is slow, but Aslan aren't likely to engage in violent duels
unless absolutely necessary.

Several messages to the offending clan that indicate the error of their
ways might result in an amicable solution. The female's honor would thus be
defended and in future relations, the two parties would recall the
resolution between the clan patriarch and the male Aslan who hurled the
initial insult. I would think that all other avenues would be exhausted
before violence is chosen.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 12:23:21 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Non-Trav Update:  One Sheet

Please excuse this non-Trav post, but I would like to get some feedback
from my friends here on the TML about the film I am making.

Please direct your replies to me personnally in order to not fill up the
TML with this non-Trav topic.  What I am interested in knowing is, based
on just the few words below, would you want to see this movie?

Thank you.

KB.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
(the following is cross-posted material)

As I write my script, it helps me to envision certain marketing elements
while I go along.  I've sent out a post to some of my friends to get
some feedback on the one-sheet.  I will change the text below as the
story matures, but you can get the idea from what I've written here.

I welcome any feedback you might have on this.  Does it make you want to
see this film?

Thanks,

Kenneth.

(the following is the copied post I sent to my friends for feedback)
==================================

As my story developes, I've been playing around with the one-sheet (the
movie poster).  Done well, these few lines of text, together with a
great picture or graphic from the movie, will entice people to see the
thing.

I already know I'm going to tweak this (and I have an idea for another
one-sheet if the movie gets popular and has been out for a while-you've
seen how posters can change during the run of a film), but here's what
I've come up with for the first one.

Feedback is appreciated.  You've only got the words here, but trust me,
there will be a startling image to go along with it.

Kenneth.

=====================================================
(the following is the rough draft of the one-sheet for the film)


                                              Sunday Morning

A Film By Kenneth D. Bearden



14 Days before Christmas,
5 families from the same block,
on the same side of the street,
are brutally, ritualistically murdered.

It is the most heinous crime in history.

People are afraid to go out at night.

The case remains unsolved.

And, the Police can't find an answer
because they don't belive in Vampires.




                                                     Believe.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:56:04 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Ship Design systems

At 10:27 AM 12/19/97 EST, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 97-12-19 04:50:13 EST, you write:
><< I don't think that it is a basic flaw of the systems idea
> or intents just in the form of the presentation and ease of use. >>
>
>I agree.

Please do not take this as criticism, as I think the end is worthwhile.

>The Traveller ship design system has to be 
>1. Integrated with the combat system (in the sense that the combat system has
>to be understandable so people know what poarts to put in their ship).

Fully agreed.  Not knowing how ships fight, even roughly, makes it
pointless to design them.  Is an armor rating of 100 enough to stp a PAW
100 cold, stop it half the time, or once only?  How about a 99, or a 101,
or a 120?  Do systems degrade, or do they die on the first hit?

If we know the answers to these, then we can build ships in virtually any
design system, as long as they evaluate to the same ship cards.

>2. Chart based, so designers can turn to the information they need and
find it
>(and understand it).

Please - make sure the charts are derived from a detailed system.  For
example, take FF&S2, or its spiritual kin, and derive charts, of sizes,
typical weapons, and so on.  Most of my designs will come from the chart
system, but i want to know that if I am contemplating adding endurance life
support from FF&S2 to a chart created ship that it will work roughly right.

>3. Driven by a checklist, and supported by a usable, user friendly form,

Yes.  Great idea.  One suggestion - include in the checklist some helpful
information, like the following:

"Hull size:

Select a hull size appropriate for your task.  Single man or two man ships
tend to be under 300 tons, because even the best automation can not allow
someone to think about two things at once.

Merchant vessels range from 200t free traders to 5000t or more bulk cargo
carriers.  Few vessels over 500 tons are privately owned because of the
immense cost.  The majority of the bulk carriers operating between worlds
of pop 6 or greater are in the 3-4kt range.  Some high pop worlds close
together will run regular lines of 60kt vessels.

Military vessels less than 3000t cannot carry the awesome weapons used in
large space battles, but are perfectly adequate to control a system.  As a
result, most vessels below 3kt are either picket boats or destroyers.  They
have armor rating sufficient to stop civilian grade weapons (around 30),
and weapons with damage ratings in the 50s, thus they tend to die off
fairly fast in combat, but are proof against civilian weapons.  (Armor: 30,
main weapon DV 50)

A 10-20kt military vessel with a spinal mount is known as a light cruiser,
and is expected to be the center of military activity for a large number of
destroyers.  Most worlds with a pop 7 or more will have at least one such
vessel, and a world with a pop of 8 will typically have several posted
throughout the system or on maneuvers.  These vessels have evenly matched
armor and weapons, and can withstand the fire of several destroyers
indefinitely, but when in combat against similar vessels, their small size
and lack of redundancy make them fragile.  (Armor: 70, main weapon DV 70)

A 30-60 kt vessel with a spinal mount is a cruiser.  This vessel will be
the flagship for a home fleet of pop 8, and will be a major component of
pop 9 fleets.  In general, they can crush a light cruiser in minutes, but
will duel each other for several hours before one is a hulk, and the other
is nearly so.  This is because they have somewhat better armor than
weaponry, and many redundant systems.  (Armor: 90, main weapon DV 88)

A 80-100kt vessel is a battleship or dreadnought.  These vessels are
fielded by pop 9 worlds as a major fleet component.  In general, nothing
lesser can stand against them, but they are terribly expensive, thus they
have an array of heavy cruisers as screening elements, and light cruisers
as scouting elements.  These vessels are heavily armored, with spinal
mounts capable of punching right through any smaller vessel.  (Armor: 120,
main weapon DV 120)

>4. Supported by a reasonable format for the ship card / USP so one can
>understand what that means, and

Though ship cards are not enough for a product like starships - we need to
see the detailed design, as well as the summary card.  For play purposes,
summary cards are fine.

>5. supported by examples.

Yes!  Yes yes yes!  Please, though, make sure that these examples are
designed with the systems you intend the players to use, and go through one
with a detailed system, and several with chart-based ones, so that people
know how to make the decisions, and trust that chart ships are sufficient
in most cases.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2170
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 19 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2171



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Ship Design systems
Re: Addaxur
Re: Aslan honour
Re: Recoil experiments
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
Re: Aslan honour
micro-nukes (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2156)
Borg cubes (was Imperial Squadrons Review)
Re: Aslan honour
Re: Traveller Combat System slow
Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [Not available in the US!]
Re: Flame wars & other disagreements
goofed the statistics (oops)
Question for Trav Group
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Question for Trav Group

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:07:27 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Ship Design systems

Hello Folks,
  Back again after a LOOOOOOooooonnng absence <grin>.

  When discussing the different "design" sequences for ships starting with
CT, working through HIGH GUARD, and finishing up with T4 Design systems, I
think it should be pointed out, that each system had to have pleased at
least a small segment of the TRAVELLER populace.
  As for preferences?  Who is to say what is right and what is wrong?
About the only measure of "success" I can point to with any certitude, is
that of pocketbook aclaim as well as frequency of use.

  Where I sit, Traveller is a "FUN" universe with a few "logic flaws", but
overall fun background.  What I find objectionable, others don't have a
problem with and vice versa.  For me, it is pointless to spend HOURS and
HOURS debating what is right and what is wrong, because GM's will change
the universe to suit themselves anyhow.  However, friendly debate about how
one GM sets up his universe and allowing other's to either poke holes in it
(thereby improving the setting) or adopt what they percieve to be "gems" in
the concepts is to be encouraged...

  Also, my favorite character generation system/combat system is GURPS, and
today, I would not even consider attempting to run a TRAVELLER UNIVERSE
using the classic Traveller rules nor (and I am sorry to say this), the
newer T4 version.  Lest you all get the wrong idea here, I own every
"version" of Traveller to have ever come out, and I really did give it a go
(version T4 that is) with my gaming group.  The problem was, from my gaming
group's perspective, is that really "ludicrous" results were relatively
easily obtained mathematically speaking.  Also, the odds of success chart
where one used 1/2 dice progressions were not smooth enough to make a
difference.  One player suggested that we consider using the Megatraveller
concept of a steadily increasing difficulty modifier such that impossible
feats were really impossible!  Another suggested that instead of using half
dice, that we just use full dice for the half dice, and then increase the
order of magnitude for the other levels.  Thus, the difficulties would
reflect an average of +3.5 average die roll per difficulty, rather than the
(1+3)/3 (which equals 1.3333 by the way) for the 1/2 die.
  Another problem that led to the abandonment of T4 with my group, was the
fact that the first book (we gave up before the other books came out) was
rife with so many errors in the sense that things were missing, and/or
misplaced.  Also, the equipment lists didn't seem to have been proofread
properly such that the "stats" of weapons and armor didn't match the
descriptions of said equipment.  When all was said and done, the players
wanted to return to GURPS.  Had GURPS not existed, chances are, we as a
group, would have "fixed" T4 to reflect our preferences, and created T4
analogs to the CT and Megatraveller equipment and weapons.

  Ok, I have slammed the T4 system enough to likely rile the proponents and
adherents of the system to get a Plasma bolt up my arse <grin>.  However,
this wasn't fully my intent.  Now, to slam GURPS <grin>.  What I missed
seeing in a TRAVELLER universe, was the character generation system that
gave results much like the CT, where you decided what branch you wanted
your character to emerge from.  I loved the Random Stat generation, along
with the randomized (with input from the character owner) skill
delineation.  GURPS doesn't readily adapt itself to this, being a point
allocation system.  And Finally, While I love GURPS VEHICLES, I also Loved
the FF&S book as well.  I HATED having to figure out the ship damage charts
for use with TNE, just as I hated the fact that ship combats became a long
drawn out affair.  I also, much to my shame, never really gave TNE ship to
ship combat a fair shake because the Ships were not the same as those
produced from CT or HIGH GUARD (yes, I make a distinction between the
two!).  Essentially put, I hate having to spend long periods of time
creating "unique" ships that are overly detailed for combat use.  I also
hate having to spend a lot of time creating deck plans for said detailed
ships.

  In the end analysis of my "tastes", the following are my preferences:

1) A slightly more "detailed" High Guard like system that does not lose the
"initial" simplicity of the combat system.  By this, I mean that Energy
generation systems be rated by the Megawattage they produce, not by "power
levels".  If the inferred concept of 1 energy point equals 250 megawatts
was possible, then why didn't HIGH GUARD just create a simple formula that
stated "Volume of plant is X per Megawatt of energy produced and uses Y
fuel per hour" or some thing like that.  Change the damage result of the
"powerplant" hits to read like "lose 10% power production per level of hit"
or some such non-sense.  Weapons are now rated by power usage.  Life
support is based on power usage, etc.  If I recall correctly, STRIKER ended
up doing just that.  I once, out of curiosity, went back and tried to
calculate the fuel usage versus energy output as percieved by Striker
equipment rules, and found that the fuel usage rates were comparable to the
HIGH GUARD rules...

2) a revamping of CT's or HG's approach with the computers.  Instead of
having an increasing size for higher graded computers, just have an
increasing cost level per increased capacity, but retain a simple 1 ton
volume for the "computer room".

3) a separate lifesupport section to be included in the engineering bay,
with the potential of hitting it added to the damage charts.

  I think you can see what I am getting at here.  I would have liked to see
a combat system for ship to ship, that was reasonably abstract for major
fleet battles, yet powerful enough to be done on a MAYDAY like scale or
even CT scale.  However...

HUGE HOWEVER <grin>

  Such a combat system is something that I can cobble up on my own without
having to get nasty about some other guy not having had the foresight to
make "WHAT I WANT".  So I will finish this off with the observation of this:

  Enjoy the fact you have so many different ship construction systems.  As
was pointed out, one need not use T4's version of ships if you want to use
HIGH GUARD - they mesh well enough!  If you would rather use the combat
system of T4, but use the skill system from Megatraveller - why not?
Frankly, one STRENGTH that I can see here, and might be worth a "PRODUCT"
from Imperium Games, is to recap the different TRAVELLER game systems, and
allow the players to pick and chose.  I don't know if there is a copywrite
problem, or a royalty problem with respect to reprinting all of the oldies
yet goodies stuff, but to my way of thinking, it would be worth the
while/effort to re-release some of those old standbys for the newer
generation buyers.  As one person on REC.GAMES.FRP.MISC wrote: you will get
my CT when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.

Pssst: don't tell anyone yet, but right now,  I am running a SCI-FI
campaign for my players that is apparently GURPS based, but in reality, is
lying doggo until GURPS TRAVELLER comes out.  Once that happens, then I can
go back once again to my long endearing love...

 T H E    T R A V E L L E R    U N I V E R S E !


       Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:39:14 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Addaxur

Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> asks:

>Anybody have detailed information on the Adduxar race? All I have is:
>
>Carnivorous reptilian race with small stellar empire of about 37 planets
>met peacefully by the Zhodani as they expanded. Currently Zhodani
>citizens with a 10 planet reservation.
>
>I'm interested in anything else people may know about them, especially
>if pictures are available.

  Nope. No pictures. I've been trying to envision the Addaxur with
little success aside from a big, toothy grin for five years now.

  Another bit of text, from the CT Zhodani Module:

  "...six-legged carnivores from a high-gravity world about 40 parsecs
from Zhodane (sic)"

  and

  "Zhdant has a population of 83 million, of whom more than 90% are
racial Zhodani. Significant non-Zhodani population is primarily Addaxur"

  This leads to a couple of assumptions on my part: The Addaxur have
their ten-world reservation, but are common and welcome travellers in
most of the Consulate. They have been a part of the Consulate for 5000
years or more (contact was in -5120 Imperial), so they are _everywhere_.
  The Addaxur used STL to link their worlds before the Zhodani found
them, so we can assume one of two things: either they DID have artificial
gravity, OR they are quite tolerant of low-G environments. Given their
current near-ubiquity in the modern consulate, the second is quite
likely. Or they go everywhere with a grav-harness that _increases_
their personal gravity to a comfortable level.
  "Six-legged" does not necessarily mean six-limbed, and this has been
one of my stumbling blocks for their appearance.  "Reptilian" means
scales or armor plates. "Intelligent" and "star-faring" requires certain
body forms: hands or their equivalent, good eyesight and/or high tactile
sense.
  It is far too easy to drop a picture of Poul Anderson's Adzel (sort of
a dragon-centaur with heavy armor) into this equation, and he may be what
the folks at GDW were thinking of at the time, but I would rather come
up with something else...

  As a By The Way, the home sector of the Addaxur is Tienspevnekr, which
was done for the HIWG Sector Project several years ago, planet and
subsector names complete (as was Zhdant Sector; Ziafrplians was never
finished that I recall, I'll have to look). Being a Zhodani nut, I will
probably make these things available on my Web site. Er. When I get one.
Copious free time and all that...

GypsyComet

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:50:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan honour

Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com> wrote:
> According to the Aslan Alien Module 1 (CT) under the rules of duelling,
> males and females do not duel each other.

Quite correct.

> The problem is, what if there is no male member of her clan for several
> subsectors?  Would she ignore the insult given her despite it's being 'too
> great to ignore' or would she issue a challenge herself.  Both seem to
> go against the Aslan code of honour.

That's a tough one.  I'm assuming that the duel is to be fought with another
Aslan.  If the male in question were an alien, the insult would certainly be
dismissed (with something like "An ignorant, honorless, barbaric male alien
such as yourself obviously can't possibly have the wit to comprehend this
point of honor that is obvious to any half-housebroken child") and the Aslan
would simply refuse to treat the alien in question as anything other than a
dim-witted animal ("one does not hold conversations with animals; and slicing
one with a dewclaw is simply a matter of butchery and not honor").

Here are some ideas if it's an Aslan-Aslan matter of honor:

There is a ritual of insults that typically leads to a challenge.  This is a
part of the tradition, and it gives both sides a chance to back down before
a duel is required.  If the female can keep her temper, she can probably use
this to her advantage.  She has the option of dismissing the insult for
gender-specific reasons, and should probably do so (she gains as much honor
as if the duel was fought, and the male looses none for backing down).  If
the male continues with insults that would require a challenge, she should
probably issue a challenge (by going this far, the male has already lost
considerable honor).

If the challenge is issued, she should talk to the earltrais (duel referee),
and point out that she is very distant from her clan.  The male cannot duel
her himself, or else he would suffer a great loss of honor for fighting with
a female.  The male is most likely to be concerned with this point, since
males are the more traditional element in Aslan society.  The referee will
probably make the obvious suggestion - that the male involved fetch an
appropriate female relative to fight in his stead - so that the duel can
proceed.

Another option would be for your female to hire a champion.  Champions are
(semi)-professional duel-fighters.  A mismatched duel is a grave dishonor to
those who participate in it, but in Aslan society, there are situations
where a duel must be fought between individuals who are of widely varying
health or age.  Champions are the answer - most large groups of Aslan have
champions of both genders and widely varying age.  The profession is an
honorable one, and the use of a champion to avoid a clearly-mismatched duel
is considered honorable.

If all else fails, the time and place for the duel will simply have to be
specified such that the female can get word to her clan, and have a male
sent to fight in her stead.  It's not unheard-of to schedule a duel this far
in advance, but it's certainly unusual.  It'd also make a great adventure
seed, for the Aslan shipowner to return to her homelands, find a champion
amoung her family, and still get to the appointed place for the duel (being
late would be extremely dishonorable).

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 20:27 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Recoil experiments

In-Reply-To: <l03102801b0bcfeed2911@[207.194.197.225]>

Richard,

> In "Twilight's Peak" Ancient loos were phased teleporters built into the
> ground which would teleport any material in contact with it a millimetre at
> a time.

It was joked that a Zhodani noble character in my campaign psionically 
'ported her biological waste directly out of her body...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:46:22 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]

>>Well Traveller IS 70s sci-fi wether you like it or not ...[snip]
>
>  What I meant, and I believe I stated was that Foss
>drew this stuff years ago.  Very little of it has the flavor of the Traveller
>universe, in my opinion.  The giant claws rising up out of the ice-covered
>ocean menacing the giant, phallic device is a perfect example.  Technically,
>the picture is competent and decent enough, and Foss gets an amazing level of
>detail in his stuff.  I just don't think its very Traveller.
>
>>The best covers for Traveller stuff was the WBH: Nice looking and actually
>>depicting gamerelated stuff. The same goes with most covers of the Digest.
>
>Since I don't have the WBH, nor have I had the opportunity to see it, I can't
>comment.  My personal favorites for cover art were the little-black books, and
>I'm not kidding.  The covers just look really neat.  I think I like the ones
>without the wide band at the bottom better though.
>
>Otherwise, I like the MegaTraveller Ref's Manual quite a bit, and the cover
>for the TNE's Vampire Fleets looked pretty cool too.  Probably my least
>favorite Traveller book cover was Encounters in the Ventura Quadrant, by Group
>One.

Well, the bands on the LBBs were to distinguish the core rule books from
supplements and adventures.  Made it easy to find books 1-8 on your shelf
looking at the spines.  I agree that they were quite striking, especially
in the genre of overly flashy covers like most D&D, Gamma World, etc.
products.

Haven't seen the group one stuff, but I "inherited" materials from Judge's
Guild ("Waspwinter" is the product that sticks in my mind) with
illustrations that could have been done by my 6 year old neice.  Poorly
drawn aliens and scenes that were out of proportion, It makes me appreciate
*any* well done art.  Note that the content on the above mentioned
products, while not fabulous, is certainly usable, if a bit on the bizarre
side.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:51:08 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan honour

In a message dated 97-12-19 09:03:48 EST, you write:

<< The problem is, what if there is no
 male member of her clan for several subsectors? Would she ignore the insult
 given her despite it's being 'too great to ignore' or would she issue a
 challenge herself.  Both seem to go against the Aslan code of honour. >>

You are talking about a standard of Aslan society. Since the (the female
aslan) is operating outside of her own society (by choice, and with some
recognition that other societies are different), she has internally accepted
that normal rules don't apply.

If its a slight insult, she ignores it. If its too great an insult, she could
[forego tradition and] right the wrong herself, or she could work within local
society (which might allow dueling, or might call for mediation, or suing, or
talking it out).

This is like a female from an islamic country who observes strict dress codes
while at home or with her family, but adopts more open dress codes when
visiting in or living in western countries.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:44:20 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: micro-nukes (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2156)

> From:          shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Date:          Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:02:52 PST
> 
> If I recall the critical mass for Californium, a standard 12mm slug is
> *way* over critical mass. It'd blow as soon as it cleared the damper
> field. Try 5.56mm or so.

The idea to have a hollow slug, that on impact collapses to critical 
mass.  Damned expensive bullets, and you _do_not_ want the damper's 
batteries to run out.



- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:44:20 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Borg cubes (was Imperial Squadrons Review)

> From:          shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Date:          Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:06:56 PST
> 
> Try again. Take a cube at point one "corner" at yourself. You have 1
> pointing "directly", 3 with medium deflection, and 3 with "extreme"
> deflection. 4 is the *minimum* number you can bring to bear!

   Just how far can you deflect a spinal mount shot?  I've always 
assumed you need to be aiming within a few degrees of the target, and 
assuming a ROF of 100, you only have 30 s to switch between the 
firing spinal mounts.

  In the scary-cube department, how about having janus spinal mounts 
along each outside edge - four barrels per face.  Spin it at 1 
revolution per 30 s, and assuming each has an ROF of 100, you have a 
respectable total ROF of 1600. That should wake up the target.  I'm 
sure there are plenty of practical reasons for it not to work well, 
but the thought's nice. :)

   Of course, having a million+ diplacement-ton cube drop out of 
jump space should give most characters cause for concern, regardless 
of armament. :)


- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:44:20 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan honour

> Date:          Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:38:58 +1100
> From:          Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
> Subject:       Aslan honour
> Reply-to:      traveller@MPGN.COM

> ... The problem we came up with is this:  According to the Aslan Alien
> Module 1 (CT) under the rules of duelling, males and females do not duel
> each other. For example, if a male insults a female, the female would
> usually ignore the insult as part of male 'ignorance'. However if the
> insult was too great to be ignored, the nearest male member of her clan
> will issue a challenge in her place. The problem is, what if there is no
> male member of her clan for several subsectors? Would she ignore the insult
> given her despite it's being 'too great to ignore' or would she issue a
> challenge herself.  Both seem to go against the Aslan code of honour.

She might approach a "male" member of the crew, one that she feels 
closest to or that understands Aslan ways the most to act as a 
relative and issue a challenge.  

If she is Tolerant (the skill), she may just consider the insulter to 
be tahiwihteakhtau (barbarian), and kick him off the ship at the next 
opportunity.  

_Solomani and Aslan_ mentions the use of paid Champions if the 
person needing to duel is too old or infirm; perhaps this also 
applies.

Or, her letters home get Dad angry enough he decides an Assassin is 
appropriate.


- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:01:14 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Combat System slow

At 07:32 PM 12/18/97 -0800, JayStr wrote:
>(snip)
>All fine ideas... provided they don't get bogged down in the same
>hellish complexity that the Inner Circle on the TML seem to regard as a
>prerequisite for their version of futuristic 'realism'. One of the great
>joys of CT was that you could play with a pencil and a pair of regular
>old 6-sided dice. A calculator (the regular kind, NOT A $50 $%&%%^*
>SCIENTIFIC ONE) was a luxury, not a necessity. We had a starship design
>system you build grav fighters or dreadnaughts with in the early '80's.
>I don't think that wanting one now is as unreasonable as the uber-geeks
>have been telling me.

There are no simple systems that can withstand a clever person.  Clever
people take them apart, and your rules need to be, at their heart, capable
of handling people trying to do complicated things.  The average person
will do average things, and it is nice if the rules are easy to use in that
domain as well.  Remember - if the players need a fusion plant to power
their APC, and they have a solar panel in the water purifier, they _are_
going to ask if it can run the grav car.  You better be able to answer this
kind of question as a DM.

If the system can give you the answer, then you might give a consistent
answer, and the game will seem a little less arbitrary.

Digression:

The real world gets around this by having apparently simple things floating
on top of very complicated things.  Riding a bicycle involves solving lots
of nasty DEs, but we have the proper results "wired in" through practice.
If someone wants to generalize a bicycle to a thousand feet high, then you
do need to have the real physics.  A physics degree makes it pretty clear
that there is a lot of subtlety lurking under the so-called simple world.

If the gearheads have their way, then the underlying physics will come
somewhere near reality.  You can still put a simple wrapper on top, but you
_have_ to have something like the real world deep inside.  By having a
complicated system with a simple wrapper, you can get easy to use systems
with some depth behind the charts.

Here is an example-

Is damage resistance based on the cube of the armor thickness, or the
simple thickness?  Is the damage value based on the energy, or the square
of the energy?  These are fairly subtle, and do not vary a lot over the
range of a typical pistol bullet (200J vs. 1KJ), but the difference gets
pretty severe between a pistol bullet and a laser turret (200J vs. 250MJ).

Should the player care?  No.  They should be able to read off a table, or
should have a number that can be compared directly.  (E.g., a DV of 10 vs
and armor of 11 is a win for the armor.)  That the designer of the vessel,
or the designer of the chart used by the ship designer had to perform
armor=(T*d)^3, is not something that the player needs to see.

Most refs don't need to see it either.

Until the players drop a 600Kg boulder on a tank from 50 feet, and ask what
happens.  Saying "be creative" is not a lot of help, especially if one of
the players does know the real answer, and the GM doesn't.

So, the so-called "uber-gearheads" are not doing this just to make you
unhappy - they are doing this in hopes that we will not end up with a
vehicle design system that is incompatible _on an assumption level_ with
the starships, and those incompatible with the had weapons.  Many systems
have this, where a pistol is a good weapon against a tank, or a starship
capable of diving into a gas giant can be threatened with a chemical
explosive bomb in a suitcase.

T4 has the same problem, precisely because they did not start with the old
FF&S when designing the simple systems.  Wildstar did start with the old
FF&S, so we ended up with QSDS, that is basically compatible with FF&S2,
thus ships designed with one will work with the other.  Had Greg Porter
circulated betas to the people who would someday write FF&S, and had he
agreed with them on the basic assumptions, VDS-designed vehicles might well
work with all the old ships.  Further, had FF&S2 had enough time for proper
playtest, it would have had fewer problems.

My point?  Every simple system has deep assumptions, and if you develop the
deep assumptions before simplifying, you end up with a number of simple
systems that do not conflict.  If you do otherwise, then you suffer greatly.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:36:12 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [Not available in the US!]

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:54:27 -0500, you wrote:
>From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
>Subject: Re: All Hail Chris Foss! [WAS: IG going under?]
>
>>Well, no.  The pictures rarely, if ever, have anything to do with the actual
>>contents of the book.  Ships look a certain way, devices look a certain way,
>>and well, Foss's stuff was painted without Traveller in mind.  The pictures
>>epitomize the flavor of 70s sci-fi, but not Traveller.
>>
>>Semo
>
>Well Traveller IS 70s sci-fi wether you like it or not and Mr Miller
>probably had images from Foss in his mind when writing the sacred three
>books.(Almost every author at the time had covers by Foss; Poul Anderson,
>Asimov etc)
>
>The best covers for Traveller stuff was the WBH: Nice looking and actually
>depicting gamerelated stuff. The same goes with most covers of the Digest.

Aha! Someone who (obviously) only read UK editions of SF in the '70's! Sorry,
but I can say without fear of contradiction (well, not much :-} that no (or
extremely few) *US* editions of SF works in the 70's (or anytime at all, much)
used Foss artwork. Foss's covers were, AFAIK, used *only* on UK editions.

I know whereof I speak, for assorted arcane copyright reasons, it was
technically illegal to import US editions of any book into Australia until the
last ten years or so (it was done, and in increasingly large numbers, but it was
*very* uncommon in the 19960's and '70's ... *except* for SF books) ... anyway,
even tho it was sometimes difficult I *never* bought a UK edition with Foss
"art" in preference to a US edition with non-Foss art. Never. (And, to boot, the
US editions were usually cheaper).

So, to most *American* readers ... and that's where Traveller started, after
all, your statement is likely to be completely wrong.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:37:16 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Flame wars & other disagreements

>I think there are quite a number of people who, like me, are tired of the
>rantings of people who, safe at their consoles, feel the need to say things
>that would, in the real world, elicit either a punch or a sharp termination
>of aquaintance. Cheap insults are easy to fling, when you're safe in your
>home six thousand miles from the recipient. Roll on the day someone invents
>the Virtual Headbutt (tm).

I was personally a fan of the "Virtual Bat (tm)", a large robotic arm that
attaches to the side of your monitor that wields a Louisville Slugger that can
be controlled by simple encoding that can be sent on chats, in e-mail, or on
usenet...

The only problem would be getting everybody else to buy them.

In alot of the stuff I see around on the Internet its just people practicing
mental masturbation.  Like, the whole tirade against the gearheads, "tech-
geeks" and "no-real-life Star Wars types".  Nothing is actually accomplished
by such yelling and screaming, people get irked (to say the least) when
they've been insulted, and in the scheme of things, its not really all that
important.

Just seems kind of dopey.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:38:03 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: goofed the statistics (oops)

Hello Folks,
  I made a minor error in my "statistics" of saying (1+3)/3, it should
have been (1+3)/2, or 2, not 1.33 as I stated.  I don't know what I was
thinking of when I wrote that.  None the less, it doesn't invalidate the
comment - the progression of difficulty is not a smooth one.

   Sorry,
     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:21:30 EST
From: SW Mego <SWMego@aol.com>
Subject: Question for Trav Group

Here is a question recently brought up in an adventure. I thought it
interesting enough to attempt to get feedback from everyone of you...

If you (your character) had the opertunity to journey through a portal
(wormhole) and you only knew that you would land on a planet somewhere that
could support your life. 
1) Would you go not knowing if you could ever get home, or how hostile or
harsh of an enviroment it would be.
2) If you only had a few minutes to prepair and could ONLY TAKE 3 (THREE)
things, what would they be.
3) If you had 24 hours to prepair how would your answer change?
3) If you were told that the portal would re-open in 1 year for a 'return
trip' what THREE items would you take (if you chose to go).

Derek...
swmego@aol.com
www.netxp.com/fantasticplastic

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:13:52 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

At 09:45 AM 12/19/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Scott Taylor:
>
>>All going to prove that Mssr. Long's maxim about blue mud isn't always as
>>easy to follow as it would at first seem... in fact, cultural mores about
>>food may be harder to suss out and deal with than almost any others
>>(except sexual interactions).
>
>Maximize the efficiency of cultural discomfort by combining the two.
>
>"You make children eat _carrots_?  You sick, perverted bastards..."
>
>"People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
>(blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).

Ever serve a Japanese person a cheeseburger?  I can't figure out how a
culture that considers raw fish a delicacy can turn down a nicelt aged
cheddar.

Gives me a few fun curves for the Lunion project.. thanks.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:23:36 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Question for Trav Group

At 09:21 PM 12/19/97 EST, you wrote:
>Here is a question recently brought up in an adventure. I thought it
>interesting enough to attempt to get feedback from everyone of you...
>
>If you (your character) had the opertunity to journey through a portal
>(wormhole) and you only knew that you would land on a planet somewhere that
>could support your life. 

I'll answer for myself, since my character range from types that dive
through to people who hide under the car[pet if confronted with this choice.

>1) Would you go not knowing if you could ever get home, or how hostile or
>harsh of an enviroment it would be.

Yes.  Live the adventure.

>2) If you only had a few minutes to prepair and could ONLY TAKE 3 (THREE)
>things, what would they be.

A Leatherman pocket tool (Swiss-Army knife type thing, all sorts of useful
goodies), a good survial knife (6" blade, saw edge on back, various items
in hilt, compass in pommel, my 2-liter Army canteen.  If I can port water,
I'm halfway to anywhere.

>3) If you had 24 hours to prepair how would your answer change?

Instead of the canteen, I'd by a solar still at a camping supply store.

>3) If you were told that the portal would re-open in 1 year for a 'return
>trip' what THREE items would you take (if you chose to go).

From the world I visited?  Don't know.  For the trip over, what I've listed
above.

- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
|    "But think of Korea, of Guadalcanal, of  |
| Belleau Wood, of Viet Nam.  The H-bomb did  |
| not abolish the infantryman; it made him    |
| essential... and he has the toughest job of |
| all and should be honored."                 |
|                       - Robert Heinlein     |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2171
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 21 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2172



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory
Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory
Re(2):  All Hail Chris Foss! [Not available in the US!]
Missing Books
Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets
Re: Question for Trav Group
Re: Missing Books
Game Stores
Re: Missing Books
Re: Missing Books

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:16:24
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory

Damn, damn, damn, damn.

A typo slipped through. Trade is alwys based on the size of the smaller
world economy. Ignore the bit leading into the Cat 1 and Cat 2 total trade
paragraphs that says "If the worlds are of comparable economic size".

Ah well, if there isnt erratta, it isnt Traveller ;)

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:51:08
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Grand Unified Traveller Trade Theory

******************************************
WARNING ... HEAVY ECONOMICS GEEKING FOLLOWS.
IF THIS DOESNT INTEREST YOU, PRESS DELETE NOW
***********************************************

The current Traveller trade system and all that follow it are broken beyond
recognition.

Lo-tech worlds have all this foriegn exchange to buy imports with, and
absolutely no way of earning them.

The system doesnt scale, and doesnt recognise that your freight is someone
else's speculative cargo.

OK. Whine over. Lets fix it.

Where economics is everything, if people can make money doing it, it will
be done.

Where money is not to be made, it will not be done.

And if any bozo can make money doing it, then every bozo will try and make
money doing it.

Therefore the quantity of trade is determined by the profitibility of that
trade.

Freight costs are adjusted to reflect the twin facts that higher jump
freighters are more expensive but less expensive per parsec. Jump-1
freighters charge Cr 1000 per jump per displacement ton (dt), Jump-2
freighters Cr1250 per jump per dt and Jump-3 freighters Cr 1500 per jump
per dt.

To solve the problem that the current Traveller cargo values dont match
anything that can be bought - the cost of a displacement ton of vacc suits
is well over Cr10 000, for example - there are now three categories of
trade goods.

Category One trade goods are goods of mass consumption, and raw and
semi-processed materials for industry. These goods use the flat Traveller
trade system.

Category Two trade goods are finished industrial products, and items of
semi-luxury consumption. These goods have a base cost of KCr 100 per dt.
They use the flat traveller trade system, except that a Source/Market DM is
an adjustment of n*10% in buying or selling price, rather than an
adjustment of n*Cr1000 in base buying or selling prices.

Category Three trade goods are items of hyper-luxury consumption, cost MCr2
per displacement ton, and have their supply and demand determined
exogenously (when goods cost MCr2 per displacement ton, you can carry it
essentially as far as you want, if you have a 10% price differential
between market and source).

Category four goods are Military Trade goods, representing military
hardware and spare parts. They cost MCr5 per displacement ton, and also
have their demand determined exogenously.

Create a trade matrix of all worlds in a trade zone for Category One and
Two trade goods, and determine profitibility for all routes, with freight
costs based on the most effective route. Remember to apply selling prices
including the best broker available at the market world's starport class.
Assume an average dice roll of 7 on the selling table. Do *not* apply DMs
due to Tech Level differences between source and market worlds.

<The reason for dropping TLs due to TL differences is that TL is the
primary determinant of GWP in Imperial Credit values. Low TL worlds will
have low GWP in ICr terms, and therefore small amounts of trade. Their
lower value currency will result in many of their exports being cheaper in
Imperial Credit terms for the goods they can produce that are demanded in
the wider market>

Next, generate GWPs in Imperial Credits for all worlds, whether thru
Trillion Credit Squadron, Striker or Pocket Empires. Remember that an
Imperial Credit is the highest-value credit within a trade zone.

<if you do this for the Third Imperium, please email me a copy ;) >

If worlds are of comparable economic size (GWPs within 100% of each other),
then for each pair of worlds, Category One trade in each direction will be
equal to (Expected average net profitability/500) percent of the smaller
world's economy. Note : if profitibility on one leg is sufficiently high
that you can make the run back empty or at a loss, do so. Record by value
and tonnage in each direction.

If worlds are of comparable economic size (GWPs within 100% of each other),
for each pair of worlds, Category Two trade in each direction will be equal
to (Expected average net profitibility/100 000) percent of the smaller
worlds's economy. Note : if profitibility on one leg is sufficiently high
that you can make the run back empty or at a loss, do so. Record by value
and tonnage in each direction.

Needless to say, if expected average net profitibility is negative, trade
will not happen.

A world will import (((1d6-3)+(1d6-3))*(1d6-3))/3 percent of GWP in
civilian Category Three goods. Record by value and tonnage. Source worlds
will be determined later.

A world will export ((1d6-3)+(1d6-3))*(1d6-3)-3% of GWP in Category 3
Civilian Goods. Record by value and tonnage. Destination worlds will be
determined later.

A world has a 66% chance of spending 5-30% of it's military budget on
imported military goods. Military budgets average 3% of GWP, 6% of GWP
outside the Third Imperium. Therefore, Category Four Military Imports will
be 1d6*5*0.03 percent of GWP if present. Source worlds will be determine
later.

A world will export Military Goods if it has a Starport type of A or B or
is Industrial and has a TL of either the Maximum or one below the maximum
for the trade zone. 

A world that meets these conditions will export 1d6% of it's GWP as
Category Four military goods. A world that does not meet these conditions
will not export military goods. Destination worlds will be determined later.

In a large economy, set the Category Three Civilian exports of otherwise
deficit worlds at a level sufficient to put their trade balance at an
acceptable level (zero in the Third Imperium).

Similarly, increase the Category Three Civilian imports of otherwise
surplus worlds so that their trade balance is also at an acceptable level.

<Yes, this is an exteremly ugly fix. In reality, market economies react to
balance of trade crises by changes in the valuation of their currency, thus
encouraging imports or exports as appropriate. However, the Traveller trade
system doesnt apply trade DMs based on relative currency values. Therefore,
balance of trade crises dont happen, therefore trade balances must be at or
near zero. Assume that the world couldnt have imported all those goods
without exports to pay for them in the first place. Oh yeah, and the IISS
knocks over any mercantilist governments that insist on running trade
surpluses. Incidentally, Category Three imports and export both average
about 1.7% of GWP. All worlds import some Cat 3 goods, and many worlds will
import Cat 4 goods but many worlds will not export them. The worlds that do
export Cat 3 or Cat 4 goods tend to export a *lot* of them>

For a small economy, net trade will equal zero (it has no-where else to
import or export to).

If total military exports exceed total military imports, then
proportionatly reduce all military exports until they equal total military
imports.

If total military import exceed total military exports, then proportionatly
increase all military exports until they equal total military imports.

Next, sum the total trade balance for all worlds.

If the net trade balance is negative, then proportionatly decrease all
Category Three Civilian Import levels until the sum of trade balances
equals zero.

If the net trade balance is positive, then proportionatly decrease all
Category Three Civilian Exports until the sum of all trade balances equals
zero.

<net trade within a trade zone has to equal zero - there is no-where else
they can import or export to>

Next, balance the trade balance of every individual worlds by exporting
Category Three Civilian goods from the world with the largest trade deficit
to the world with the largest trade surplus, in MCr 100 increments.

Continue until all worlds have a trade surplus or deficit of less than MCr100.

<see notes about quick and ugly fixes above>

OK. At the end of this process, we have the Category One and Category Two
trade patterns, together with total amounts of Category Three and Four
imports and exports.

Once we calculate where Category Three and Four exports and imports go to
and come from, we have a complete "trade map" of the trade zone.

The simplest way is to create a "standard basket" of both Category Three
and Four goods. Calculate the percentage of total exports of goods of each
type by exporting world. Each importing world imports according to this
profile (eg 12% of total Imperial category three goods exports comes from
Sylea. Therefore each world that imports category three goods will import
12% of it's category three imports from Sylea).

****************************************************************************
********

Needless to say, this process *has* to be computerised. Just figuring it
out for a small seven-world trade zone nearly drove me insane. I'll write
up how this system crunches out trade quantities for the Pocket Empires'
Empire of the Seven Suns later today.

We also have to sacrifice some rules, notably the "cargo always costs about
KCr 5 per tons, modified for demand" and "Net Source/Market TL is a
determinant of demand".

However, it *is* worth it, because it will give us a way of generating a
complte "trade map". It will provide amounts of trade, trade by value and
lots of background information about worlds (knowing that a world imports
6% of it's GWP as luxury goods and 3% of GWP as Military goods tells you a
number of things about the world's probable social structure. Add a high
law level and I'll give you two guesses on it's probable social stability
too ...).

Once this is done, we will know how much trade a world does, and thus the
size of it's starport and the tonnage of shipping per annum.

If somebody decides to issue "Pocket Empire" sourcebooks, with one page per
world in the Empire, then you could record total trade to and from each
world by type as economic data, as well as total trade by volume, value and
type.

The short summary is that big worlds have *lots* of trade with each other,
while it is entirely credible to have a small world that literally sees one
far trader a year.

Basically, a pair of worlds will have Category 1 trade equal to 2% of the
smaller world's GWP per Cr1000 profit, and Cat 2 trade equal to 0.1% of the
smaller world's GWP per Cr10 000 profit. Worlds will tend to have a large
radius of potential Category 2 trade partners (snap-frozen strawberries
that sell for Cr 4 a 250 milliliter punnet are worth Cr200 000 a
displacement ton. Assume 50% markup between starport and purchaser. How
many PCs would buy a ICr4 punnet of strawberries as an "impulse" purchase ?
How many workers earning ICr8000 a year on an Industrial world, and eating
machine-made goop, would buy one as a holiday present for loved ones ? One
in a thousand ? Given 400 million workers, thats seven displacement tonnes
of snap-frozen strawberries per holiday, at value ICr100 000 per
displacement ton for the shipper).

I want to have smaller worlds have a multiple to their GWP for the amount
of Cat 1 trade (a big neighbour that wants lots of what you produce will
tend to dominate your economy ), but couldnt figure a clean method of doing
it.

It also shows the level of economic disruption caused by the introduction
of Jump-2 and then Jump-3 freighters into a trade zone. Honestly, they
revolutionise the pattern of long-distance interstellar trade. And with
KCr100 and MCr 2 and 4 goods, there is a lot of long-distance trade.

Military goods exporters are also vulnerable when suddenly they arent the
preferred supplier - an Indutrial Tech 10 world is going to take a *big*
trade hit once their purchasers join the TL12 Imperium's trade zone, and
start buying "obsolete" TL11 grav tanks and SDBs off Imperial worlds.

Oh yeah, and the invention of Category Two, Three and Four trade goods
gives pirates more of a sporting chance ... by increasing the value of a
freighter's cargo, it is more worthwhile taking insane risks to capture it.

Finally, the model is also quite sensitive to changes in freight costs. The
long-term fall in the cost of transport (caused by the Imperial credit
costs of cargo starships falling as Imperial technology rises) will
encourage trade. Increases in the cost of freight due to risk will cause it
to fall.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:36:23 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re(2):  All Hail Chris Foss! [Not available in the US!]

Phil writes:
>Aha! Someone who (obviously) only read UK editions of SF in the '70's! Sorry,
>but I can say without fear of contradiction (well, not much :-} that no (or
>extremely few) *US* editions of SF works in the 70's (or anytime at all, much)
>used Foss artwork. Foss's covers were, AFAIK, used *only* on UK editions.
>
- -----

We got them in Canada, back when the Canadian dollar was worth more than
the US dollar, with both Canadian and US prices, but no UK prices.  So I
assume that you were reading different books.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:29:12 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Missing Books

I'm having trouble reaching Imperium Games via the Internet.  Could you
folks please forward this message and send me the reply?  Thanks.


To Imperium Games

On October 24 you charged my VISA for a book, presumably Naval Architects
Manual.  When the bill arrived in mid-November I emailed you querying
this, and you replied that the book was now in the mail.  On November 21
you charged my VISA again, presumably for Imperial Squadrons (although
other people were receiving both books in a single package).

I have yet to receive either book.  I did receive the letter you sent
regarding the cancellation of JTAS.

I would appreciate receiving the books that I have ordered (and paid for).
 

I would also suggest that your review your company's shipping procedures. 
My order of Emperor's vehicles was not shipped until after I queried the
VISA charge, now it appears that the same thing happened with Naval
Architects Manual (and probably Imperial Squadrons).  I am not familiar
with American law, but in Canada it is illegal to charge a credit card
until the order is shipped.


Robert Prior

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 02:04:44 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets

>The toilets were just patches of floor, with built-in
>teleport/disintegrators (either a disintegrator, or a teleport to the
>garbage, forget which).  They took off about a millimetre at a time, so
>the pile would slowly disappear, as would any player who sat there and
>activated it.  Which rather indicates that Droyne produce only solid waste.

I guess that does indicate that, doesn't it?  Either that, or they have some
other method of eliminating liquid waste.  I think I'll go with this in my
complex.  I have an idea for where the stuff was teleported to (I use limited
nanotech in my campaign-world, and I have the ancients pretty heavily involved
with it on a big scale.  The teleporter would take the waste to a "recycling
room", where the essential elements are converted by nanomachines).

>Beds were, I believe, anti-gravity.

It would figure, wouldn't it?  I should have known :)

>There were perches in the base, but I think they were in the exercise room.

I had two seperate "barracks" rooms, well, actually 3, the third was for the
human servants.  The "normal" Droyne barracks had a "pole" around the room,
irregularly shaped, set about a meter off the floor and a meter away.  The
"warrior" Droyne barracks had a thicker pole higher off the floor, and further
from the wall.  I would assume that in addition to being quite a bit taller,
warrior Droyne would have a wider wing span as well...

>One of my longer-term projects is to draw the Octagon and Ancient base as
>colour deckplans (like I did for Shadows).  As a use-once, I've put it
>lower on my list than finishing plans for Space 1889 ships that I can use
>many times.  (At the moment, that is just the luxury liner.)  Take a look
>at my Shadows plans
>(http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/shadows.html) and
>let me know if you could actually use an equivalent for the Ancient base. 
>Enough votes and I'll move it up the priority list!

Cool, I'll check it out and I'll tell you what I think.

Semo

- --> Chris Farley:  1963-1997.  Rest in peace.  <--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:34:43 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Question for Trav Group

Derek wrote:
>If you (your character) had the opertunity to journey through a portal
>(wormhole) and you only knew that you would land on a planet somewhere that
>could support your life.=20
>1) Would you go not knowing if you could ever get home, or how hostile or
>harsh of an enviroment it would be.

Depending on how crazy I am ;-) For the sake of discussion, yes. It would
probably be a wonderful experience. I understand that this world is
supposed to be _way_ out of normal space travel range, or am I wrong?

>2) If you only had a few minutes to prepair and could ONLY TAKE 3 (THREE)
>things, what would they be.

* A good survival knife (the kind with thread, compass, matches etc.)
* Waterflask, full
* A generous piece of tarp (is that the word?) useable for shelter, warmth
etc.

>3) If you had 24 hours to prepair how would your answer change?

Replace the waterflask with one of those handy condensator/purifier units.

>4) If you were told that the portal would re-open in 1 year for a 'return
>trip' what THREE items would you take (if you chose to go).

Probably the same things, although a camera would have been fun. Still,
pictures are no good if you never return, are they?


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:05:24 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Missing Books

At 23:29 19/12/97 -0500, Rob Prior wrote:
Wrt Imperium Games not sending books that have been paid for via VISA...

>I am not familiar with American law, but in Canada it is illegal to charge
a credit card
>until the order is shipped.
>
Rob,

	It is against the law in the UK too, as far as I am aware. You can tell
your credit card company that you have not yet received goods that you have
paid for. They will then get onto IG and ask for details of the
transaction, and it will be up to them to prove that they have provided the
goods that you have been billed for.

	However, as you may already have paid your bill as it was a few months
ago, I don't know what the procedure now is for this.	Good luck anyway.

	But, anyone else with an as yet unpaid credit card bill with something on
it that has not yet been received from IG need not pay it. Tell your credit
card company and they will contact IG. This way, no one need pay for
anything they haven't yet received.


	See ya...

Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:45:50 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Game Stores

I went into what passes for a game store today. I live near the Metro
centre (largest shopping centre in Europe) - it has no games store but for
a Games Workshop outlet (which doesn't count). Even the little model shop,
which used to carry a charmingly random assortment of RPGs, has given up.

So my nearest outlet is Virgin in Newcastle. I paid a visit there
yesterday.


They had Architects' Manual, I noticed, plus 2 shelf-compartments of
Traveller stuff. Almost everything, from CSC to M0 campaign - and 2 copies
each of both halves of Long Way Home.

I find this encouraging.

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 97 17:20 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Missing Books

In-Reply-To: <fc.00003c54004af5993b9aca00843924e1.419a@nybe.on.ca>

Rob,

> To Imperium Games

Try emailing flagella@concentric.net - it's the only reliable address 
AFAICT.

This is almost identical to an email I sent about a month ago (and an 
earlier one re. another product).

> On October 24 you charged my VISA for a book, presumably Naval Architects
> Manual.  When the bill arrived in mid-November I emailed you querying
> this, and you replied that the book was now in the mail.  On November 21
> you charged my VISA again, presumably for Imperial Squadrons (although
> other people were receiving both books in a single package).

I was also charged on different occasions, but the books arrived together.

> I have yet to receive either book.  I did receive the letter you sent
> regarding the cancellation of JTAS.

Odd - I've had the COTI letter but not the JTAS one.

> Architects Manual (and probably Imperial Squadrons).  I am not familiar
> with American law, but in Canada it is illegal to charge a credit card
> until the order is shipped.

I thought it was (and made a similar comment to IG), but since then people 
have told me (though they could be wrong) that it isn't strictly illegal to 
do this, at least in some cases. However, the CC companies would certainly 
take a dim view of anyone who made a habit of it.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 03:00:20 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Missing Books

In a message dated 97-12-20 02:29:17 EST, you write:

<< 'm having trouble reaching Imperium Games via the Internet.  Could you
 folks please forward this message and send me the reply?  Thanks.
 
 
 To Imperium Games
 
 On October 24 you charged my VISA for a book, presumably Naval Architects
 Manual.  When the bill arrived in mid-November I emailed you querying
 this, and you replied that the book was now in the mail.  On November 21
 you charged my VISA again, presumably for Imperial Squadrons (although
 other people were receiving both books in a single package).
 
 I have yet to receive either book.  I did receive the letter you sent
 regarding the cancellation of JTAS.
 
 I would appreciate receiving the books that I have ordered (and paid for).
  
 
 I would also suggest that your review your company's shipping procedures. 
 My order of Emperor's vehicles was not shipped until after I queried the
 VISA charge, now it appears that the same thing happened with Naval
 Architects Manual (and probably Imperial Squadrons).  I am not familiar
 with American law, but in Canada it is illegal to charge a credit card
 until the order is shipped.
 
 
 Robert Prior
  >>

I STRONGLY suggest you call IG and demand your money back.  I went through
similar trauma almost exactly a year ago, and was LIED to three times by IG.

My credit card was charged in November of 1996, and no product ever arrived.
This is illegal in the US as well as Canada.  (I had ordered the special t-
shirts and the mouse pad, for Christmas presents).  When I finally called (a
month or so into  1997), I was told that "they just shipped out and were in
the mail."

A week later, I still had received nothing, so I called again, and was told
that the t-shirts had not even been printed!  However, they were expected in
the next week.

I waited; still nothing.  I called and demanded a refund.  They LIED and told
me that was not possible, but I could get a credit towards another purchase.
I told them I did not want another product; I wanted my money back.  They
apologized, and said that was the best they could do.

The next day, after talking to a few lawyer friends, I faxed and mailed a
nasty letter to them, threatening legal action.  MYSTERIOUSLY, they called me
and told me I was getting a refund (which just hadn't been possible the day
before).

Good luck.

Ithklur

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2172
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, December 22 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2173



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Answers
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Missing Books
Re: Import it into Traveller
Re: Missing Books
Re: micro-nukes (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2156)
Merry Christmas
Re: Traveller books?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:24:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Answers

Kenji Schwarz wrote
 > Leonard Erickson wrote: 
> >In mail you write:
> >> Leonard sayeth...
> >>> ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
> >> there film? :-)
> >>
> >> Yeah, the Sayat's head on the K'kree's hoof
> >
> >Followed, no doubt, by one of the Sayat's companions inserting a PMPP
> >into an inapropriate orifice on the K'kree?
> 
> <stepping sadly down from the position of resident TravPerv...>

That *was* pretty impressive. Leonard managed to get;

Rishathra
bestiality (since Sayat don't think of K'Kree as "Human", IIRC)
rape (since I'm *certain* the K'kree isn't going to approve...)
sodomy (not a problem with *me*, but still illegal in 13 subsectors of 
        Solomani space... :-)
play toys *and* weapon play (since a PMPP at least nominally meets *both*
classifications)
and most likely Snuff as well

all into a single series of actions.

wow.

:-)

(Of course, I'm sure he didn't *intend* it to be taken that way...)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:14:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

> Scott Taylor:
> 
> >All going to prove that Mssr. Long's maxim about blue mud isn't always as
> >easy to follow as it would at first seem... in fact, cultural mores about
> >food may be harder to suss out and deal with than almost any others
> >(except sexual interactions).
> 
> Maximize the efficiency of cultural discomfort by combining the two.
> 
> "You make children eat _carrots_?  You sick, perverted bastards..."

or cucumbers, or squash, or vreyta-roots...
 
> "People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
> (blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).


<snicker>
<chuckle>
<bwahahahahahahahaaaaa>

Sorry, you just reminded me of an event that happened in our CPunk game a 
little while ago... an interchange between my courier and another 
person's computer geek that sent one player (not character) out into the 
hall to wait until we were "less pervo"...

it's *amazing* the uses one can find for a jar of chocolate sauce... :-)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:12:24 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Missing Books

>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:29:12 -0500
>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>Subject: Missing Books
>
>I'm having trouble reaching Imperium Games via the Internet.  Could you
>folks please forward this message and send me the reply?  Thanks.
>
>
>To Imperium Games
>
>On October 24 you charged my VISA for a book, presumably Naval Architects
>Manual.  When the bill arrived in mid-November I emailed you querying
>this, and you replied that the book was now in the mail.  On November 21
>you charged my VISA again, presumably for Imperial Squadrons (although
>other people were receiving both books in a single package).
>
>I have yet to receive either book.  I did receive the letter you sent
>regarding the cancellation of JTAS.
>
>I would appreciate receiving the books that I have ordered (and paid for).
> 
>
>I would also suggest that your review your company's shipping procedures. 
>My order of Emperor's vehicles was not shipped until after I queried the
>VISA charge, now it appears that the same thing happened with Naval
>Architects Manual (and probably Imperial Squadrons).  I am not familiar
>with American law, but in Canada it is illegal to charge a credit card
>until the order is shipped.
>
>
>Robert Prior

You're not the only one. In October I ordered several books from IG and
renewed my internet preoder. The charges appeared on my November statement,
but as yet the specific books and NAM have not appeared. However in early
December I did get Imperial Squadrons. Thus far IG have not even had the
courtesy to reply to three e-mails that I know they have recieved. I'm
giving them to 1 Jan before calling in the heavy stuff (threatening legal
action and then informing the NZ mininstry of Consumer Affairs; who are
quite happy to enforce NZ law on foreign companies doing business in NZ
via the internet).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:34:56 -0600
From: Me as a regular user <markn@wavefront.com>
Subject: Re: Import it into Traveller

>   About using other games' adventures in Traveller.
> I have used stuff from GDW's 2300 AD game.  Their modules are
I've gotten nothing but complements after converting several
Space 1889 stuff from old issues of Challange

BTW, I'm subscribed to another mailing list which uses a pretty 
nice search mechanism for their archives.  Someone might want to
look over at 
<http://www.findmail.com>

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:40:17 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Re: Missing Books

> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 03:00:20 EST
> From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Missing Books
> 
> In a message dated 97-12-20 02:29:17 EST, you write:
> 
> << 'm having trouble reaching Imperium Games via the Internet.  Could you
>  folks please forward this message and send me the reply?  Thanks.
>  
>  
>  To Imperium Games
>  
>  On October 24 you charged my VISA for a book, presumably Naval
Architects
>  Manual.  When the bill arrived in mid-November I emailed you querying
>  this, and you replied that the book was now in the mail.  On November 21
>  you charged my VISA again, presumably for Imperial Squadrons (although
>  other people were receiving both books in a single package).
>  
>  I have yet to receive either book.  I did receive the letter you sent
>  regarding the cancellation of JTAS.
>  
>  I would appreciate receiving the books that I have ordered (and paid
for).
>   
>  
>  I would also suggest that your review your company's shipping
procedures. 
>  My order of Emperor's vehicles was not shipped until after I queried the
>  VISA charge, now it appears that the same thing happened with Naval
>  Architects Manual (and probably Imperial Squadrons).  I am not familiar
>  with American law, but in Canada it is illegal to charge a credit card
>  until the order is shipped.
>  
>  
>  Robert Prior
>   >>
> 
> I STRONGLY suggest you call IG and demand your money back.  I went through
> similar trauma almost exactly a year ago, and was LIED to three times by IG.
> 
> My credit card was charged in November of 1996, and no product ever arrived.
> This is illegal in the US as well as Canada.  (I had ordered the special t-
> shirts and the mouse pad, for Christmas presents).  When I finally called (a
> month or so into  1997), I was told that "they just shipped out and were in
> the mail."
> 
> A week later, I still had received nothing, so I called again, and was told
> that the t-shirts had not even been printed!  However, they were expected in
> the next week.
> 
> I waited; still nothing.  I called and demanded a refund.  They LIED and told
> me that was not possible, but I could get a credit towards another purchase.
> I told them I did not want another product; I wanted my money back.  They
> apologized, and said that was the best they could do.
> 
> The next day, after talking to a few lawyer friends, I faxed and mailed a
> nasty letter to them, threatening legal action.  MYSTERIOUSLY, they called me
> and told me I was getting a refund (which just hadn't been possible the day
> before).
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Ithklur


Is there any possibility that IG had 'aquired' the GDW people responsible
for the Traveler project while it was in GDW's inventory?  If so expect to
see IG suffering from the same GDW faults in the near future.  For now, all
I can suggest is avoid buying anything that you can't lay your hands on
first in a respectable retail location...

Scott Spieker
scspieker@ncweb.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:27:29 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: micro-nukes (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2156)

>The idea to have a hollow slug, that on impact collapses to critical
>mass.  Damned expensive bullets, and you _do_not_ want the damper's
>batteries to run out.
>

Why are there no collapsium frag KE space missiles?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:47:40 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Merry Christmas

The time has come for me to venture back to my hometown for Christmas. I
won't be responding for the next month or so. I will not unsubscribe during
this time, because I want to remain active in the discussions afterwards
(at least try to, there will be plenty of mail by then).

During the next weeks I will finally be able to play RPG's more often than
once per month :-) "And there was much rejoicing"

Merry Christmas everyone, and a happy new year!


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:50:13 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller books?

>Here in Turkey Traveller is unheard. I am lurking in the list for about a
>year and I definitely want to play. Which books must I order, and from
>where? Any help will be appreciated.
>
>							Hakan

Wait for the second edition release of the Traveller Basic Rulebook
(refered to here as T4.1).  It promises to be better than the first edition
in terms of usability and error checking.  It's release is delayed, but
should be Real Soon Now(tm), and it should be Done Right(tm).

The first release suffered from the need to already know about Traveller
and many of the assumptions (or so I've been told).

After that, the other books are usable to expand your understanding of
different aspects of the game universe.  The Milieu 0 campaign book will
give background and world statistics for the area of The Third Imperium
when it is a young, new empire.  There is a problem with the world data in
this supplement;  The law level is identical to the government type in each
instance.  A pain in the butt, but one which can be overcome on a
planet-by-planet basis.

I would not recommend he supplement Starships.  This book is basically
flawed in the ship stats and in relatively unusable deckplans.

I will recommend the Central Supply Catalog and Emporer's Arsenal.  Between
them you can find all of the basic personal equipment and weapons you'll
need.  Emporer's Vehicles adds, well, vehicles, but some might say this
supplement suffers form certain important omissions.  It is usable as it
is, however.

That's the basics.  Beyond these are the 'adventure books' which you may or
may not want to pick up.

The Milieu 0 book, in addition to background, will provide some adventures.
If you wish to use prepublished adventures, The Long Way Home and Gateway
are two complete campaigns.  Try TLWH first and, if you like the style, get
Gateway as it's "second half".

Anomolies, Alien Archive, and Psionic Institutes are basically adventure
sources.  If you don't want to write your own, they are quite capable of
filling in for you.

Pocket Empires is a game unto itself, which can be related back to a
campaign setting.  It allows the creation of individual interstellar 'city
states' outside Imperial borders as either a setting, or a plot device.  It
also is playable all by itself.

Fire, Fusion and Steel is a technical supplement and is for those who wish
to design ships, vehicles, weapons and equipment.  It is (I am told) truly
detail oriented.  This is a good supplement for those with time on their
hands.

The Naval Architects Manual contains bits and pieces of deckplans for use
when such layouts are needed.  It is useful as a tool for the GM who does
not wish to detail his or her own starship deckplans, or just hasn't the
time.  It also has bars, offices, and other spaces detailed.

Thats all of them.  They can be ordered from Imperium Games, or any of a
number of game distributors around.

Imperium Games (310)275-9859

Their International shipping is quite high ($5 per item, item 6 & 7 free).
You may want to search the Web for a place which has better shipping costs.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2173
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 23 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2174



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

JTAS Special Supplements
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: JTAS Special Supplements
T4.1
Diaspora Sector
Re: Answers
Request for J-6 ships
Trav-tech
Re: Answers
Re(3):  Missing Books
Assorted
Uncie Hengie ... weeeee've finished it
Re: Traveller books?
Re: Answers
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Answers
Re: Answers
Re: Answers
Re: JTAS Special Supplements
Re: Uncie Hengie ... weeeee've finished it
Re: Force fields

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:24:18 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: JTAS Special Supplements

Hi there!  If anyone has the old JTAS articles on Missiles (I believe it was
Special Supplement 1) or Sensors for High Guard, could you possibly please
paraphrase them or give me a usuable summary?  I have (at least for the
moment) decided to go w/ High Guard as the basis of my T4 space combat system,
hopefully pending a better system in T4.1.  I would like to add as much to the
High Guard system as I can though.  Any assistance at all would be
appreciated...if nothing else, even hints may jog the old brain cells...:-)

Thanks in advance, 

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

PS:  Merry Christmas and Happy holidays to all!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:52:06 +0000
From: Tim Connors <tconnor@pop3.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

At 12:14 PM 12/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> Scott Taylor:
>> 
>> >All going to prove that Mssr. Long's maxim about blue mud isn't always as
>> >easy to follow as it would at first seem... in fact, cultural mores about
>> >food may be harder to suss out and deal with than almost any others
>> >(except sexual interactions).
>> 
>> Maximize the efficiency of cultural discomfort by combining the two.
>> 
>> "You make children eat _carrots_?  You sick, perverted bastards..."
>
>or cucumbers, or squash, or vreyta-roots...
> 
>> "People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
>> (blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).
>
>
><snicker>
><chuckle>
><bwahahahahahahahaaaaa>
>
>Sorry, you just reminded me of an event that happened in our CPunk game a 
>little while ago... an interchange between my courier and another 
>person's computer geek that sent one player (not character) out into the 
>hall to wait until we were "less pervo"...
>
>it's *amazing* the uses one can find for a jar of chocolate sauce... :-)
>
>Scott Taylor
>Freelancer for Hire
>Have Mac, Will Travel
>
	Excellent point. Somehow a plastic tub of Kool Whip lacks 
	the . . . um, versatility of one of those pressurized cans
	of whipped cream.


	Tim Connors

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 08:48:26 EST5EDT
From: "mik_croc" <mik_croc@mail.fastlink.com.au>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

  and you should  _really_ try some of that wonderful King Island cream!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:10:05 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: JTAS Special Supplements

Hello Dusty (Ed) and list,
  In response to your questions...

1) the Pullout module for the missiles are such that you pick and chose
your G burn time, as well as the G output, and put it together with the
warhead system to create a missile warhead.  May I suggest you contact Mr.
Miller Himself to find out if you can get a photocopy of it?

2) with respect to the High Guard combat system, one thing should be
pointed out to you: I once ran a combat between Broadsword (800 tons) and
an unnamed 1000 ton ship also carrying a platoon of soldiers.  The one
feature about the 1000 ton ship was that it carried a 100 ton missile bay
- - giving it an Attack value of 9 on the missiles chart.  As fate would
have it, I rolled a Manuever drive critical hit, along with a powerplant
critical hit on the very first salvo.  This left the Broadsword dead in
the water (so to speak).  The next thing I did was to attempt to get a
"crew" hit before engaging in close quarters combat (that's boarding to
us groundlubbers <grin>).  In any event, with each turn representing 20
minutes - after 3 hours of non-stop missile fire (along with laser fire I
might add), the Broadsword was as intact as it was when the missile
bombardment started!
  As a result, I created a "house rule" that stated that for ships that
are dead in the water, 1 in 3 hits are "aimed" hits that will hit as you
desire (as per the rules from Book 1 of Traveller).  Essentially, you get
to roll 1d6, on a 1 or 2, you hit where you aimed, otherwise, you don't.

  If you think of an alternative, let me know <grin>.

  There is something to be said about "structure" points being adapted to
the High Guard rules.  Any hit that hits a "no hit" option (ie something
that doesn't exist, or has already been hit, and none exist anymore) then
a structure hit occurs.  Also, crew casualties are directly related to
"structure" hits.  Thus, if there are 10 structure hits available for a
ship, and you take 5 structure hits, then 50% of the crew are casualties.
This way, a new "home brew" hit list might ignore "crew" hits, and replace
them with structure hits... 

  Comments?

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:29:14 -0400
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: T4.1

Is there any word on when the T4.1 rules will be released?

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:09:00 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Diaspora Sector

Does any one have a data file for the following sectors?

Diaspora Sector
Gvurrdon
Tuglikki
Provence (I don't that that was ever generated)
Meshan
Amdukan

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:41:53 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Answers

Scott Taylor wrote:

>
>Kenji Schwarz wrote
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> >In mail you write:
>> >> Leonard sayeth...
>> >>> ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
>> >> there film? :-)
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, the Sayat's head on the K'kree's hoof
>> >
>> >Followed, no doubt, by one of the Sayat's companions inserting a PMPP
>> >into an inapropriate orifice on the K'kree?
>>
>> <stepping sadly down from the position of resident TravPerv...>
>
>That *was* pretty impressive. Leonard managed to get;
>
>Rishathra
>bestiality (since Sayat don't think of K'Kree as "Human", IIRC)
>rape (since I'm *certain* the K'kree isn't going to approve...)
>sodomy (not a problem with *me*, but still illegal in 13 subsectors of
>        Solomani space... :-)
>play toys *and* weapon play (since a PMPP at least nominally meets *both*
>classifications)
>and most likely Snuff as well
>
>all into a single series of actions.


	Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
values and no gratituous sex and violence.

	Kenji, Leonard, please report to the nearest disintegration chamber
for immediate termination :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 03:11:21 +0000
From: Tim Crowfoot <tcrowfoot@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Request for J-6 ships

Greetings to the list.

Has anyone out there a selection of (or even just one!) Jump-6 ships in
an e-mail format?

Or is there a web site I can download from?

100dt to 10000dt, preferably designed with Brilliant Lances NAM or FFS1.

Deck plans would be a bonus.

Thanks in advance

Tim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 03:26:38 +0000
From: Tim Crowfoot <tcrowfoot@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Trav-tech

Is this another aspect of this the TML and if so how do I subscribe and
(in a little more detail than "tech"!) what does the list cover?

P's and Q's

Tim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:39:46 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Answers

Roderick wrote:

>        Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
>T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
>values and no gratituous sex and violence.
>
>        Kenji, Leonard, please report to the nearest disintegration chamber
>for immediate termination :).

That might be kinda difficult for me... see, I kinda tinkered around with
my disintegration chamber so's I could use it to freebase drug drug with.
You probably don't want to know what Leonard did with his...

Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:13:20 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re(3):  Missing Books

Scott writes:
>	Is there any possibility that IG had 'aquired' the GDW people responsible
>for the Traveler project while it was in GDW's inventory? 
- -----

Oddly enough, I never had much of a problem with GDW's shipping department.

Well, OK, right at the end someone lost my instructions on what to do with
the leftover Challenge subscription, so I never got my merchandise in
spite of Loren's promise to honour the obligation.  (If you're listening,
Loren, I stand by what I said about taking xeroxes of unpublished
material.)

In any case, this was a problem with a company that was winding down, not
one that is (supposedly) healthy.  I think that IG's shipping problems are
all of its own making.

Like Andrew, I will give Imperium Games until Jan 1 to at least make
contact, then start alternate proceedings.  I suppose the Canadian
Consumer Affairs office would be a good place to start.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 01:26:15 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Assorted

Kenji Schwarz wrote
Re: >*field mice*.

> Birds' nest soup is essentially hardened swallows' drool, I guess.

Let's not even mention honey...and I understand there is a gourmet coffee that
uses coffee beans that have been passed through a small mammal's digestive
tract.

********************

Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Aslan honour

> Would she ignore the insult given her despite it's being 'too great to 
> ignore' or would she issue a challenge herself.  Both seem to go against 
> the Aslan code of honour.

My take on the situation is that a nearby non-Aslan could be made an honorary
relative for the purposes of responding to the insult. If one of the human
crew is chosen, it need not be a male human, just one that occupies a male
job, such as gunner or platooon leader.

Loren Wiseman
        GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:21:32
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Uncie Hengie ... weeeee've finished it

Uncie Hennngieeeeee,

Weeeee took one of the Mooonshine class drugdrug runnerrunner, an we we we
we added two 250 megajoule Particle-warticle accelerators to it. Oooops,
leeegals are telling us it isnt a drug drug runner runner, it's a "Fast
Express Courier".

This means weee need to make two of the passengers into crew crew crew
crew, so they can shoot the particle-warticle guns. 

Weeeee hadda move around the statewoooms, but weeeeee reckon people will
like like like like living in a rooooom one meeeter by one point one
meeeeeter by six point fouuurrrr meeeeters. That niiiiice Mr O'Malley from
Leeeeeegals does. Least when we feeeeeeed him the little wittle yellow
pills. An an an an Cousin Bryyyyyan says weeeee need to clean the rooms
more, coz heeeee keeps on seeing bright porange spoiiiiders. Cousing
Wiiiinnnnie says thats siiiillly, coz all the spiders sheeeee sees are blue.

Weeee reckon that this means we can call it the Famile Spofulam White
Lightning Class Frigate. With the pawpawpawpaws it will cost two hunnerd
and ninety seven megacredits, and will have only 23 displacement tons of
caaaargo.

Weeee reckon you should add a 50 000 km 25 megawatt nukeie-wukie damper,
with two displacement ton of battery-watteries (42 megawatt/hours, min
discharge time one hour). Weee'd need another crew memeber tooo, so weeed
have only 3 passengers then. It'd take the cost up to three hunnerd and a
half megacredits <predesigned nuke damper from FFS2 table 140>, an the
cargo-wargo bay down to 12 displacement tons.

Last last last thingie is two Laaaaaadars, one to use and one in case the
first one breakie-wakies. They'll fit in the bits next to the nukie-wukie
damper, coz it's a bit smaller than the nine displacement-wacement tons
weeeeee allocated. They're factor-wactor 14, and see out to two hunnerd
thousand kilometer-womenters. The cost of the White Lightning goes up to
three hunnerd and three megacredits.

Weeee reckon that the White Lighning is a pretty-weeeety good fwigate.

Your loving cousein,

Ditzie

<Quick figures on a 250 megajoule output PAW.

Sixteen meters long, two meters diameter. Output 250 megajoules.

Muzzle area three point one four two meters squared.
Theoretical Effective range 37 000 km.

Ninety KK beam pointer (3 m3, MCr 0.3, 0.3 t)

Tunnel volume 50.27 m3, 37.7 t, MCr 5.027.

1250 MW accumulator (62.5 m3, MCr 0.625, 135 t)

Normal crewstation (7 m3, MCr 0.002, 0.2 t)

Total weapon mass 166 t, volume 105.7 m3 (8 dt), MCr 6

Damage is 79 at 30kk, 65 at 45kk, 48 at 60kk, 39 at 75kk and 33 at 90kk>.

The Moonshine-class Rapid Insertion/Extraction starship is at
http://www.dragonfire.net/~7epm/traveller/moonsh.htm

It's USP is

200 Td Needle Airframe              Volume : 2800 m3
Cost : MCr 285
Crew : 6                            Passengers : 6 Medium
Pass Low : 0
Cargo : 45 dt                       02 Jump rating
00 Fire Control Rating              09 G rating (6g T-plates, 3 G helplar
<6 g-hours>)
01 Light Laser 1/0/0/0              7.5 Power Plant rating
                                    822.5 Fuel Rating (no scoops, no refining)
                                    01 Sandcaster Rating (30 cans)
                                    10A/4P/10J EMM Sensor Rating
                                    20 Armour 15 Structure

Includes G-compensation and G-tanks for passengers and crew. You still pull
4Gs at maximum acceleration though.    

Adding the White Lightning mods take the mass up by 500 tons. GMs may want
to rule that this reduces acceleration down to 5 gees normally, 7.5 Gs with
boost. Still, it's a damn decent jump-2 frigate.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:08:59 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller books?

Hakan Koseoglu wrote:

> Here in Turkey Traveller is unheard. I am lurking in the list for about a
> year and I definitely want to play. Which books must I order, and from
> where? Any help will be appreciated.
>

You're in a tough spot. My campaign currently uses MT rules. I plan to
upgrade to the T4.1 rules as soon as they're out, but I have no idea when
that might be. In my opinion, those rules seem to be the best ones yet.

Does anyone have any ETAs for these rules?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 00:46:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Answers

In mail you write:

>         Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
> T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
> values and no gratituous sex and violence.
>
>         Kenji, Leonard, please report to the nearest disintegration chamber
> for immediate termination :).
>
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

"I'm sorry, Rod. I can't do that."

Besides, my disintegration chamber is busy dealing with door-to-door
preachers. 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:11:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert N Harris <rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Excerpts from mail.TML: 19-Dec-97 Re: >*field mice*. by Scott
Taylor@faerealm.fa 
> Throwing a party in a new society, and having the natives eat something 
> that the party finds utterly revolting (without going so far as, say, 


Remember the last days of 3rd Imperium when the Hiver delegation was
cruising about. There were little "hot dogs" being served? When the
humans tried to serve hot dogs at the next function it was noted that
the Hiver delegation did not partake of the offering.
Guess those weren't hot dogs after all.

There were a couple of TNS messages about this is Challenge.
I don't have them here at work so I can't be more specific.

Rob Harris




- ----------------------------------
Rob Harris
Center for Cognitive Brain Imaging
Dept. of Psychology, CMU
268-3414
rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 00:44:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Answers

In mail you write:

> Kenji Schwarz wrote
>  > Leonard Erickson wrote: 
>> >In mail you write:
>> >> Leonard sayeth...
>> >>> ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
>> >> there film? :-)
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, the Sayat's head on the K'kree's hoof
>> >
>> >Followed, no doubt, by one of the Sayat's companions inserting a PMPP
>> >into an inapropriate orifice on the K'kree?
>> 
>> <stepping sadly down from the position of resident TravPerv...>
>
> That *was* pretty impressive. Leonard managed to get;
>
> Rishathra
> bestiality (since Sayat don't think of K'Kree as "Human", IIRC)
> rape (since I'm *certain* the K'kree isn't going to approve...)
> sodomy (not a problem with *me*, but still illegal in 13 subsectors of 
>         Solomani space... :-)
> play toys *and* weapon play (since a PMPP at least nominally meets *both*
> classifications)
> and most likely Snuff as well
>
> all into a single series of actions.
>
> wow.
>
> :-)
>
> (Of course, I'm sure he didn't *intend* it to be taken that way...)

You're sure about that are you? :-)

(Actually, *I* am not sure about my intent, other than the fact that I
knew darn well the idea was both "logical: *and* extremely perverse)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:26:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Answers

 
> Roderick wrote:
> 
> >        Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
> >T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
> >values and no gratituous sex and violence.
> >
> >        Kenji, Leonard, please report to the nearest disintegration chamber
> >for immediate termination :).
> 
> That might be kinda difficult for me... see, I kinda tinkered around with
> my disintegration chamber so's I could use it to freebase drug drug with.
> You probably don't want to know what Leonard did with his...

Why am I not surprised...

Roderick, we *don't* want to have Leonard and Kenji disintigrated...

Leonard's one of the best hard-sf proponents on the list, and, well, 
anyone who comes up with the Sayat is just too inventive to die (besides, 
then *you'd* have to take care of the Trav-lang list... :-)

So I hearby withdraw my accusations. Leonard's is the height of good 
taste and decorum, and and a graphic depiction of his posting should be 
distributed to all schools, free of charge, as a instructional video in 
how to diplomatically deal with the K'Kows, titled "Fun and Practical; 
your plasma-charged dildo".

:-)

(Just remember; a K'Kow wouldn't hesitate to do it to *you* :-)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:41:49 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Answers

> Besides, my disintegration chamber is busy dealing with door-to-door
> preachers. 

Ooooh! Good one! And I thought I was on to something by handing the 
phone to my toddler when the solicitors get pushy... <G>

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:25:39 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: JTAS Special Supplements

In a message dated 97-12-22 19:20:33 EST, you write:

<< I once ran a combat between Broadsword (800 tons) and
 an unnamed 1000 ton ship also carrying a platoon of soldiers.  The one
 feature about the 1000 ton ship was that it carried a 100 ton missile bay
 - giving it an Attack value of 9 on the missiles chart. >>

I guess I should also add that I am using a few of the MegaTrav rules
also...one of which allows for one critical hit for each size code the battery
exceeds the ship size (9 missile factor vs 8 hull size [per HG rules]) would
generate one auto critical hit each turn (if the battery hit that is) in
addition to the actual damage rolled.

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:48:09 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Uncie Hengie ... weeeee've finished it

Ian wrote:

>Uncie Hennngieeeeee,
>
>Weeeee took one of the Mooonshine class drugdrug runnerrunner, an we we we
>we added two 250 megajoule Particle-warticle accelerators to it. Oooops,
>leeegals are telling us it isnt a drug drug runner runner, it's a "Fast
>Express Courier".
>
>Weeeee hadda move around the statewoooms, but weeeeee reckon people will
>like like like like living in a rooooom one meeeter by one point one
>meeeeeter by six point fouuurrrr meeeeters. That niiiiice Mr O'Malley from
>Leeeeeegals does. Least when we feeeeeeed him the little wittle yellow
>pills. An an an an Cousin Bryyyyyan says weeeee need to clean the rooms
>more, coz heeeee keeps on seeing bright porange spoiiiiders. Cousing
>Wiiiinnnnie says thats siiiillly, coz all the spiders sheeeee sees are blue.

Roomy by Sayat shipbuilding standards... I think they'll buy this thing as
a pleasure yacht.

>Weeee reckon that this means we can call it the Famile Spofulam White
>Lightning Class Frigate. With the pawpawpawpaws it will cost two hunnerd
>and ninety seven megacredits, and will have only 23 displacement tons of
>caaaargo.

I'm never going to look at pawpaws on a fruit stand quite the same way again...

[snip]
>
>Weeee reckon that the White Lighning is a pretty-weeeety good fwigate.

Only one question left to be answered:  does it fit in a Christmas stocking?

Shocking and disruptive are the ululations and spattering of precious
bodily fluids as Sayat technocultists praise the divine cousin-thing of the
Great One!

BTW, Sayat page updated: no new guns or mutants, just travelogue and
translation of Acmeist poetry.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 19:21 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Force fields

In-Reply-To: <971213.060122.5D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

Leonard,

> > How about densitometers? Does a force field prevent a sensor of this sort
> > from detecting the ship so protected?
>  
> Good question. I don't think it's ever been cleared up. I'd tend to say
> that gravity (and hence densitometers) is *not* affected by a black
> globe. Otherwise it'd constantly be absorbing a *lot* of energy any
> time it was near a planet.
>  
> Also, gravity is carried by *virtual* particles, which the globe
> shouldn't be able to intercept. Real particles can be. This also means

If this is true, *artificial* gravity must work differently. Otherwise, any 
grav-based drive would work through the globe (which we know is impossible), 
plus some kind of "grav communicator" would allow communication through 
(ditto).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2174
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 24 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2175



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Fw: Traveller ships and Imperial Squadrons
What Three Items
Re: JTAS Special Supplements
Order placed with IG
Re: Answers
Re: Field Mice
Re: Answers
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Field Mice
Imperial Squadrons Review (long)
Re: Answers
IG's "impending demise" (not)
NEW IG Website
Re: Imperial Squadrons Review (long)
Is there are 3d-starmapping list?
Diaspora & Amdukan Sector Data (in Galactic format)
Re: Order placed with IG
T4 sales in local stores
Re: NEW IG Website
Starship encounter table...
RE: Diaspora & Amdukan Sector Data (in Galactic format)
Re: Answers
re: Uncie Hengie ... weeeee've finished it

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 19:22 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Fw: Traveller ships and Imperial Squadrons

In-Reply-To: <000201bd06b8$ce4947a0$b2a6bacd@default>

Chris,

> >There is a product just released called Imperial Squadrons.  In it, you'll
>  
> I certainly did like the write-up for these ships.  Unfortunately because
> your ships were incompletely detailed (no picture, no quality, etc.) on
> those inadequate starship cards (no blanks for price, fuel tankage, and so
> on)they seem misplaced in the Basic Campaigns chapter.  The ships would have

Agreed. Why do IG hate vehicles & ships so much?

> Squadrons.  The Basic Campaigns, a rehash of Trillion Credit Squadron, is
> fairly useless, with the exception of Douglas's ships, due to the omission
> of any way to resolve combat between squadrons.  Kind of pointless to build
> squadrons to fight each other if there is no way for them to fight.

Presumably (hopefully!) this will follow.

> "Imperial Squadron".  The rest of seem quite good.  Having read through much
> the Advance Campaigns chapters, it appears to be a good solid set of rules
> for strategic level interstellar combat based on the old classic Fifth
> Frontier War boardgame.  so far I have only skimmed the final part of the
> Imperial Squadrons Campaigns which deals with role playing in the Imperial
> Navy.  However, this section seem to be very good, filled with campaign and
> adventure ideas as well as other useful information such starship command
> structures from the Captain down to the Galley Hands and Military Justice.

I was pleasantly surprised by the last half of the book. A lot of good stuff 
in there.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:51:16 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: What Three Items

!. My Swiss Army Knife

2. The Hyatt in downtown Chicago

3. A USMC brand (tm) Marine Amphibious Unit

: )

Happy Holidays, everyone!

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:53:25 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: JTAS Special Supplements

In a message dated 97-12-22 19:20:33 EST, you write:

<< May I suggest you contact Mr.
 Miller Himself to find out if you can get a photocopy of it?
  >>

I have an electronic file with the text of this supplement. Email me with a
request ((Subject might best be "Request For Missiles" so I don't miss it). 

This is a Word For Windows 95 file.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:48:10 -0500
From: Robin Crooks <rstanek@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Order placed with IG

I placed an order with IG for some traveller books. Its going on a month
now and I have yet to recieve the books or any response from IG. I plan
on contesting the charge on my credit card when it shows up on my bill.
Has anyone else had any of the same problems with IG? I thought maybe
thier shipping was slow but this is getting ridiculous.If I end up
fighting with IG about this I'm going to have to find a dealer to get my
traveller products from so if anybody knows of a dealer in michigan or
someone else I can mail order through I would really appreciate the
info. thanks.

Al

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:32:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Answers

Roderick Darroch Elliott writes:

>	Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
>T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
>values and no gratituous sex and violence.

   What?!  Now I'll have to cancel plans for that supplement to Traveller
Chronicle #14 entitled, "The Women of Vland, Their Firearms and Fetishes".

   Just remember folks, it was Roderick who spoiled the fun....

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:07:53 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Field Mice

>Let's not even mention honey...and I understand there is a gourmet coffee
that
uses coffee beans that have been passed through a small mammal's digestive
tract.

The small mammal is a cat. Cats have a very short digestive tract so the
beans emerge little changed. I've never felt the need to try this one....

Merry Christmas all!


MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 21:21 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Answers

In-Reply-To: <l03020900b0c4d9532d5b@[142.154.172.24]>

Roderick,

> Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
> T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
> values and no gratituous sex and violence.

Some of my best Traveller sessions have consisted *entirely* of gratuitous 
sex and violence!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:02:55 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Scott Taylor wrote:

> Ny ancestors (and not so ancestors...) the Irish and Scots, used to eat
> something called (I forget), which was basically porridge or gruel mixed
> with sheep's blood for protein.

Maybe wrapped in a nice sheeps stomach. I.e Haggis. Or to borrow
a line, "Scottish cusine is based on a Dare"

Now for todays Recipe Gilroy K'Kree with targon, (Dredging up old
topics)

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:14:00 GMT
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
Subject: Re: Field Mice

On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:07:53 -0000, you wrote:

>>Let's not even mention honey...and I understand there is a gourmet coffee
>that
>uses coffee beans that have been passed through a small mammal's digestive
>tract.
>
>The small mammal is a cat. Cats have a very short digestive tract so the
>beans emerge little changed. I've never felt the need to try this one....

How do you get a cat to eat coffee beans? Unless it smells like fish
or meat, I doubt they will voluntarily consume them.

John Lansford

http://users.vnet.net/lansford/a10/intro.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:38:05 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Imperial Squadrons Review (long)

Generally IS is a nice product. There's some well written stuff
about roleplaying in a naval context, for example, and the FFW
reprint is nice to see - but it has some major-to-moderate flaws,
too. Overall I would recommend it highly for people who want to
roleplay in the navy, but only moderately for people who want to
fight wars.

(0): Foss artwork - the only thing worse than brightly coloured
inappropriate Foss covers is black-and-white inappropriate Foss
illustrations reprinted from other covers printed at random in the
interior. I can't even begin to imagine why they felt obliged to do
this; there are many, many better uses for the pages. (Maps, for
example, would have been nice.)

(1): The Trillion Credit Squadron stuff is mostly word-for-word from
original TCS - and it's worthless, because T4 doesn't have a space
combat system capable of dealing with large ships and fleet actions.
It also contains obsolete High Guard references.

(2): The sample starships are given in new "ship card" format. The
ship cards are full of unexplained boxes (what's the difference
between an installation and a fitting?), typos ("Armor" appears
twice) and lack boxes for sensors, signatures, structure points, etc.

(3): No illustration of the new starships (unless the Foss art is
supposed to represent one...) (There are descriptions in the text. I
note that Doug seems to have a fascination with long flared cylinders...
but I won't comment on it, much.( "Sometimes a giant cylindrical space
dreadnaught is just a giant cylindrical space dreadnaught" - Siilgmun
Freed, noted Vilani psychoanalyst.)

(4): The FFW equivalent is completely useless without Pocket Empires -
you need PE ratings ("culture" and "infrastructure") to generate
fleets, even if you know a world's UPP. Very annoying. It also contains
lots of no-longer-meaningful High Guard concepts ("partial streamlining").


(5): No subsector map is given for the sample FFW scenario, so you
have to buy First Survey

(6): The sample scenario is unwinnable for either side as printed.
(Both sides have fleets of 3-5 moderate squadrons - and SDB ratings
on their homeworlds of 1200 or more; no way those squadrons can even
dent that many SDBs. If anyone had ever playtested the
scenario this would have been obvious, which is disturbing. (The
lesson is "it's not nice to fool with a log table" - SDBs are linear
with population (so pop A worlds have 1000s of them) but the number
of battle squadrons a world can support isn't; a pop 8 world gets 1,
a pop 9 gets 2, and a pop A gets 4.)

(7): The FFW port is fairly conservative - they could have taken 
advantage of the opportunity to add some chrome/detail, since typical
scenarios are much smaller than FFW. (For example, splitting each 
system up into a "inner", "outer", and "oort" box...or fixing
bombardment, which is broken in FFW (all units take the same
percentage casualties from bombardment regardless of size, so it's
as easy to kill a corps as a battalion.) Or rules for battle tenders...
the list goes on.)

(8): The only change I can see to FFW is that damage is taken point-
by-point off of any squadron statistic, as opposed to just the
squadrons defence rating, which renders defence useless.

(9): The official list of important navy positions on a ship doesn't 
include a sensor officer :-)

Overall - nice for ropleplayers, mixed for wargamers. (I'd like to
hear opinions from people who own Pocket Empires - I can't tell how
the integration with PE is.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:55:36 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Answers

At 03:32 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Roderick Darroch Elliott writes:
>
>>	Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
>>T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
>>values and no gratituous sex and violence.
>
>   What?!  Now I'll have to cancel plans for that supplement to Traveller
>Chronicle #14 entitled, "The Women of Vland, Their Firearms and Fetishes".

And Kirsten was all set to pose with Suz for the cover....

Does this mean you'll publish my 15,000 word "Defense of Gearheadism"
article that I sent by pigeon?

>   Just remember folks, it was Roderick who spoiled the fun....

I volunteer Roderick for a newly-opened position in FS' Leeeeeegal
Department.
- --

  Douglas E. Berry                              dberry@hooked.net
             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html
********************************************************************
Equation for finding the value of "chimp"                     .-"-.
                                                             /.-.-.\_
chimp=(a+x) + t6 (w+zm) - 4                                ( ( o o ) )
a is equal to the sum of the numbers in the current time     |/ " \|
(in military time) e.g. if the time is 17:22 then the value  \'---'/
of a=12, x is current temperature, t is # of turtles within  /`"""`\
one square mile (if any), w is size of wombat involved (in inches)
z is a reddish color, m is the ratio between your height relative
to the chimp in question.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 19:24:55 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: IG's "impending demise" (not)

I did not mean to imply that I had any inside knowledge of any dire fate
awaiting IG. I simply said that I am not sure that the present situation
bodes well. I have no clue how IG is doing financially.

My reference to the products that were the "best ever" was to those done by
CORE. CORE is not IG. CORE works for IG. CORE has done some very good
material; much of the non-Core stuff from IG has not, in my opinion, been
as good. It is getting better, though; NAM was good.

I was expressing an opinion, not starting a rumor. IF i plan on portraying
something as fact, it will be clearly evident, I assure you.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:58:36 -0600
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: NEW IG Website

> I've toyed with proposing administering the website myself (it can be done nicely
> from a remote site as well as a local console - with the right setup) but time is a
> real issue with me.  That and...well...I know HTML, I can throw together a website
> and keep it running, but it will never be as fancy as some of the sites I've seen on
> the webring.  (Of course, it will _load_ quickly!  :)  Has anyone jumped at the offer
> that went out last week about maintaining the site?

That would be , with others, me.  Yes, I'm crazy enough, young enough, and
stupid enough to do it.

This is part of the first interchange of ideas:
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -

>       I'd like to see what you two can put together as a new website for I.G..
> It should contain errata for their products. It would be nice to see a
> description of their products. It should be readable by the Lynx reader and
> also IE3 and NS3.

Okay, say a base of HTML 3.0, no browser-specific extensions, and nothing
fancy (no shockwave, etc).  I generally feel that webpages that are
correct will look good in *any* browser.

As a start, I can see a quick table of contents shaping up as such:

BoilerPlate (IG Home page, welcome, etc)
	About IG (information about IG)
		IG News (company press releases, etc)	
		IG Events (conventions, contests)
		Contacting IG (email addresses, snail mail)
		Submission Guidelines (updated, include online JTAS?)
	Traveller Library Data (Traveller main page)
		Traveller News Service (TNS reprints, new news, if possible)
		Traveller Products (one page per product, includes cover, info, errata
link, possible review?)
			Traveller 4 
			FFS2
			Milieu 0
			...etc...
		Errata (separate errata pages, linked to from Products page also)
			Traveller 4
			FFS2
			Milieu 0
			...etc...
		Traveller Art (Traveller themed artwork, and possible Foss work.  Other
Traveller artist?)
		X-Boat Routes	(links to other Traveller/gaming sites)
		Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society (possible online JTAS -big
maybe-)
			Amber Zones (short adventures)
			Casual Encounters (interesting NPCs)
			Emperors Arsenal (weapon designs)
			Emperors Vehicles (vehicle designs)
			...etc...
		
(All of the JTAS stuff at the bottom is pure speculation at the time, but
would really be neat!)

This is just a rough idea of the site structure, and it will definitely be
refined as construction begins.  With that in mind, I will start on the
creation of a sample site (three to five pages) tonight and have it up for
perusal by this weekend, publish the url on the TML, and get feedback.  I
will also initiate a discussion on the TML tonight and gather
ideas/wants/etc.

I expect to be able to pound out a page every couple of days (especially
with the products pages) and could build this site in a couple of weeks in
my spare time, and spend a Saturday morning every other week updating and
maintain the site.  Of course, this site won't have any feedback
facilities like the readers survey or online ordering.  Those could take a
lot longer)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -

Okay!  If anyone has any ideas, comments, complaints, information, etc let
me hear 'em!  I'm in up to my neck!


Thanks!

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 19:59:24 -0700
From: "Aerron Winsor"<awinsor@insurquote.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons Review (long)

bmac@astro.ucla.edu on 12/16/97 06:38:05 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   trav-tech@qrc.com, traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Aerron Winsor/Product Development/Provo/InsurQuote)
Subject:  Imperial Squadrons Review (long)





Overall - nice for ropleplayers, mixed for wargamers. (I'd like to
hear opinions from people who own Pocket Empires - I can't tell how
the integration with PE is.)
Bruce
******
well I have PE, but with it and your review to judge from, I wont be buying
IS to find out.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:57:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Is there are 3d-starmapping list?

Sorry about going off-topic, but I'm looking around to see if there's
a 3d-starmapping list somewhere on the net. I heard about one on Winchell
Chung's homepage but haven't been able to get into contact with the owner.
In short, I'm looking for some good near star data for a new program that
I'm doing (Gliese 1991 isn't quite good enough... too many holes, though
I may have to settle on it if nothing better comes along). Thanks in
advance for any info...  jimv@empirenet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:53:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Diaspora & Amdukan Sector Data (in Galactic format)

Marc Miller <CardSharks@aol.com> writes:
>Does any one have a data file for the following sectors?
>Diaspora Sector
>Gvurrdon
>Tuglikki
>Provence (I don't that that was ever generated)
>Meshan
>Amdukan

Lewis Roberts has sent me the TNE data for the Diaspora Sector
(which has been incorporated into the latest version (2.3) of
Galactic). This data was originally from GDW's TNE-Deluxe boxed
set. Jeff Zeitlin has sent me the Classic Era data for the
Amdukan Sector (which will be incorporated into the next version
of Galactic). The data was apparently constructed by the HIWG.
Galactic is available from http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jimv (just go
to the programs section). Let me know if you need a copy of
the Amdukan data sent your way (keep in mind that it's in
Galactic-format so that the program can read it). I can also
email you the interim version of the program (which already
contains this data), but a general 2.4 release will be out
soonish.

jimv@empirenet.com / JimVassila@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:16:33 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Order placed with IG

At 02:48 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I placed an order with IG for some traveller books. Its going on a month
>now and I have yet to recieve the books or any response from IG. I plan
>on contesting the charge on my credit card when it shows up on my bill.
>Has anyone else had any of the same problems with IG? I thought maybe
>thier shipping was slow but this is getting ridiculous.If I end up
>fighting with IG about this I'm going to have to find a dealer to get my
>traveller products from so if anybody knows of a dealer in michigan or
>someone else I can mail order through I would really appreciate the
>info. thanks.

Well, with Rob and I, you make three that I know are having serious problems
with IG. Now I may defend the quality of IG's products, but not to put too
fine a point on it; this is totally unacceptable. If this is IG's level of
customer support and service (ignoring repeated enquiries and refusing to
acknowledge contact) then the sooner they are gone the better. I *really*
want T4 to continue in publication, but not in the hands of a bunch of
incompetants or crocks (in relation to customer support).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 00:07:52 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: T4 sales in local stores

On 12/17/97 at 04:23 PM,  douglas <douglas@teleport.com> said:

>K.C. Komosky wrote:

>>         After hounding him about getting Imperial Squadrons (he said tomorrow,
>> maybe), I asked him how his sales of Traveller were doing.

>>         His answer: that by now, they were only ordering one of every Traveller
>> product - for me. He actually asked for me to tell him about what products
>> I did want or didn't (I passed on one or two because they were of no use to
>> me).

> Just as a counter - at my FLGS they are very pleased with T4 sales.

All we have here is isolated data points, anecdotal evidence, and that's
not too reliable so don't put *too* much credence in them, but I'll add
several more data points...

I've talked to people at 5 local stores about T4 products...

Store One is the main RPG store in Pensacola, it orders one of everything,
and restocks when something sells...sometimes.  They *won't* special order,
don't *like* T4 (the owners seem to be dark and weird fans, if you know
what I mean), but do have lots of used copies of classic and mega T
products lying around.  Their T4 display is small, but as big as their
GURPS or GW display.

Store Two is the oldest store here to carry RPGs, it was more of a wargame
store that did RPG's on the side.  Today it's mainly a card store (not
magic..greeting), but still stocks rpgs and wargames in the back.  No T4,
they won't stock any, the owner said he was badly burned by MT sales..uh,
actually the lack of them.  OTOH, they *will* special order products for
me, IG and otherwise.

Store Three is a new store in Milton, about 20 miles from the city. They
stock TSR, GW, WW, but no IG.  I asked the owner about Traveller products
and got a hostile look, not blank, hostile..I didn't want to pursue it with
him.  He said he would special order IG products, but he didn't sound
enthused and he wanted 50% of list as a downpayment.  ;-> That gave *me* a
good laugh.  I said I might drop by when Alternity comes out..but I
probably won't.

Store Four and Five are comic book stores.  They actually stock a good
range of rpgs, but won't touch Traveller.  One volunteered to special order
IG products, one didn't mention it.

What *any* of this has to do with the health of IG, I don't know, but it's
clear IG product is much more rare on store shelves around here than TSR,
WW, or GW products.  It also is apparent that lots of game store
owners/clerks aren't too swift when it comes to building markets or
satisfying customers.

Frankly, I've started doing most of my buying mailorder.  I don't really
like it, you can't browse a book by mailorder, but it's easier, cheaper,
and faster than special ordering..and you can't *really* browse a special
order either. ;->  

What does this mean?  Nothing about IG, perhaps something about the
industry.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:47:57 -0600
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: NEW IG Website

OK- a proposed new IG website is up at
http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/index.htm.  It is very much a work in
progress.  Please browse over to it and tell me what you think.  I'm open
to any suggestions/ideas/insults/etc.


- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:24:42 -0800
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Starship encounter table...

Have I just missed it, or is there a starship encounter table in the T4 rulebook?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:32:49 -0800
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Diaspora & Amdukan Sector Data (in Galactic format)

I have Diaspora and the GDW data for Gvurrdon currently in my database. 
 Bill Clark has sent me data for Amduken, but I have not yet incorporated 
it, as well as some data for Foreven.
_________________________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
Http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas

All I ask of a firearm is that it be reliable, accurate, and capable of 
dropping a god at 500 meters
_________________________________________________________________________


- ----------
From: 	Jim Vassilakos[SMTP:jimv@e2.empirenet.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, December 23, 1997 6:53 PM
To: 	traveller mailing list
Cc: 	CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: 	Diaspora & Amdukan Sector Data (in Galactic format)

Marc Miller <CardSharks@aol.com> writes:
>Does any one have a data file for the following sectors?
>Diaspora Sector
>Gvurrdon
>Tuglikki
>Provence (I don't that that was ever generated)
>Meshan
>Amdukan

Lewis Roberts has sent me the TNE data for the Diaspora Sector
(which has been incorporated into the latest version (2.3) of
Galactic). This data was originally from GDW's TNE-Deluxe boxed
set. Jeff Zeitlin has sent me the Classic Era data for the
Amdukan Sector (which will be incorporated into the next version
of Galactic). The data was apparently constructed by the HIWG.
Galactic is available from http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jimv (just go
to the programs section). Let me know if you need a copy of
the Amdukan data sent your way (keep in mind that it's in
Galactic-format so that the program can read it). I can also
email you the interim version of the program (which already
contains this data), but a general 2.4 release will be out
soonish.

jimv@empirenet.com / JimVassila@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:04:49 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Answers

Leonard wrote:

>
>In mail you write:
>
>>         Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
>> T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
>> values and no gratituous sex and violence.
>>
>>         Kenji, Leonard, please report to the nearest disintegration chamber
>> for immediate termination :).
>>
>> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
>
>"I'm sorry, Rod. I can't do that."
>
>Besides, my disintegration chamber is busy dealing with door-to-door
>preachers.


	Great...  and Kenji's has been turned into a giant drug drug pipe.
I'm shocked and appalled.  Why haven't you guys put your heads together and
used them to corrupt door-to-door preachers :)?

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:17:01 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: re: Uncie Hengie ... weeeee've finished it

Ian wrote:

>
>Uncie Hennngieeeeee,
>
>Weeeee took one of the Mooonshine class drugdrug runnerrunner, an we we we
>we added two 250 megajoule Particle-warticle accelerators to it. Oooops,
>leeegals are telling us it isnt a drug drug runner runner, it's a "Fast
>Express Courier".

[horrorifc results of raising an inbred sociopathic genius on pills and
engineering texts snipped]

>Weeee reckon that the White Lighning is a pretty-weeeety good fwigate.
>


	So do I.  If you recall, I did up a variant packing a single
SSDS-stock NPAW...  However, if two fit, hooray!  Besides, the damage for
FF&S2-designed weapons seems radically higher.

	Gah.  Would write more, but am dog tired and have to work tomorrow
and then come home and do Xmas dinner.

	Tell Ditzie to let Mr. O'Malley out of his stateroom and have him
checked into Detox.  And tell Payroll to dock his pay for the little yellow
pills; they aren't one of the fringe benefits covered in his contract.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2175
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 24 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2176



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Christmas
Re: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: What Three Items
Re: Is there are 3d-starmapping list?
a sad farewell
Christmas
Coffee beans and cats.
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Answers
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2166
Re: NEW IG Website
Re: Answers
Re: Field Mice
Re: Order placed with IG
Re: >*field mice*.
Request for Missiles Supplement
Happy Holidays
Re: What Three Items
Re: Field Mice
Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......
Re: NEW IG Website
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2166
Kelenit gisuvjengeremit!
RE: Active sensors
Re: Answers
Re: NEW IG Website

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:44:19 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Christmas

This may or may not get to the list in time for Christmas - have a good
one, by the way everyone! but I just had to share this resurrection of an
Appalling Christmas Joke (tm):

Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader are fighting again. As they slash at one
another, Darkh Vader says, "Luke... join me. I know what you are getting
for Christmas."
Luke says, "No! That can't be! How can you know?"
Darth Vader replies, "I have felt your presence."



(Go on. Say it out loud.)

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:03:12 -0600
From: Me as a regular user <markn@wavefront.com>
Subject: Re: Re: IG, JTAS and GURPS

> Die Hard - An embassy will be taken hostage but not of the reasons the 
> hostagers say. I expect to be a part of my group in there when this 
> happens ...

What's amazing about this is I did this with an Azhanti High Lightning
a few years back, and guess which movie everyone thought I was 
borrowing from?  The only thing was I hadn't seen that one yet.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 04:02:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

In mail you write:

Scott? Are you *sure* you didn't want to trim that last quote? :-)

> Various insects (but *not*
>>cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
>>universally allergic to). 
>
>
> Scott

If not, is there something about yourself that you aren't telling us?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 04:09:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What Three Items

In mail you write:

> !. My Swiss Army Knife
>
> 2. The Hyatt in downtown Chicago
>
> 3. A USMC brand (tm) Marine Amphibious Unit
>
> : )

Ok, if you're goinna be *that* way about it....

1. A portable faber.

2. a Mr fusion

3. Lazarus Long

(and how would you like the destination gift wrapped after Mr. Long
gets thru with it?)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 04:21:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Is there are 3d-starmapping list?

In mail you write:

> Sorry about going off-topic, but I'm looking around to see if there's
> a 3d-starmapping list somewhere on the net. I heard about one on Winchell
> Chung's homepage but haven't been able to get into contact with the owner.
> In short, I'm looking for some good near star data for a new program that
> I'm doing (Gliese 1991 isn't quite good enough... too many holes, though
> I may have to settle on it if nothing better comes along). Thanks in
> advance for any info...  jimv@empirenet.com

Have you tried his  nyrath@clark.net  address?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:54:35 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <cmhtml@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: a sad farewell

Sorry folks,

due to work commitments, i have had to sit on the side listening in,
however due to receiving approx 1300 messages a week, i can't keep up. 
so i am bowing out of this mailing list.

if by some strange chance somebody does want to contact me then im
contactable on the ISBA which im still on or direct on
CMHTML@london.mis.slb.com


Farewell

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:00:36 EST
From: VargrA8C7A <VargrA8C7A@aol.com>
Subject: Christmas

   Merry Christmas to all and to all a good fright!
                     Ken(VargrA8C7A@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:51:51 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Coffee beans and cats.

>How do you get a cat to eat coffee beans? Unless it smells like fish
>or meat, I doubt they will voluntarily consume them.

I have no idea, and I'd like to keep it that way.

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:07:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

> Scott Taylor wrote:
> 
> > Ny ancestors (and not so ancestors...) the Irish and Scots, used to eat
> > something called (I forget), which was basically porridge or gruel mixed
> > with sheep's blood for protein.
> 
> Maybe wrapped in a nice sheeps stomach. I.e Haggis. Or to borrow
> a line, "Scottish cusine is based on a Dare"

well, of course there's the ol' Haggis (bleah), but this was more of a 
staple food; waking up to breakfast sorta thing (and I *wish* I could 
remember the name of it... or where I saw it... have to go looking 
through some of the histories again, shucks/darn :-)
 
> Now for todays Recipe Gilroy K'Kree with targon, (Dredging up old
> topics)

Tastes like chicken?

:-)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:26:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Answers

Douglas E. Berry writes:

>>   What?!  Now I'll have to cancel plans for that supplement to Traveller
>>Chronicle #14 entitled, "The Women of Vland, Their Firearms and Fetishes".
>
>And Kirsten was all set to pose with Suz for the cover....

   They will still be able to, except now they will have to be dressed in
the garb of a resident of Terra c.1202.  Think long robes, long dresses, and
head scarves (for a 20th c. reference, see pictures of the former Prime
Minister of Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto).  As firearms possession outside the
home is illegal on Terra in that era, they will have to make do with
ceremonial daggers.  Fetishes...well maybe they could look as though they
are *really* having a *good* time reading their copy of the Book of the Faith...

>Does this mean you'll publish my 15,000 word "Defense of Gearheadism"
>article that I sent by pigeon?

   You sent a carrier pigeon to a house inhabited by six cats?!  No wonder I
never saw it (though it would explain that satisfied look that Luke and R.E.
Lee had the other morning...).  I would of course be reeeeeally interested
in publishing such an article--afterall I invented the multi-gun,
multi-chambered rapid fire fusion weapons system--however, next time around
we have decided instead to run a 15,000 essay about the importance of paying
free lance writers per contract agreements, customer service, quality
control, basic formatting and layout, and determining the proper pricing
structures for serialized product lines.

>I volunteer Roderick for a newly-opened position in FS' Leeeeeegal
>Department.

   Is that the one in the basement next to the toxic waste storage facility?

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:18:16 EST
From: Keebler863 <Keebler863@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2166

PLEASE CANCEL THIS DAMN LIST

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:10:59 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: NEW IG Website

vanya wrote:
> 
> OK- a proposed new IG website is up at
> http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/index.htm.  It is very much a work in
> progress.  Please browse over to it and tell me what you think.  I'm open
> to any suggestions/ideas/insults/etc.

Should be <http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.htm>

Comments and insults to follow in private email ;->

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:23:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Answers

>Leonard Erickson wrote; 
> In mail you write:
> 
< list of Leonard's alleged crimes deleted>
> > (Of course, I'm sure he didn't *intend* it to be taken that way...)
> 
> You're sure about that are you? :-)
> 
> (Actually, *I* am not sure about my intent, other than the fact that I
> knew darn well the idea was both "logical: *and* extremely perverse)

Hey!

I was trying to keep you out of trouble... now there are folks (well, 
folk) who want to get you disintigrated, y'know...

:-)

(It actually *might* occur to a rather perverse Sayat to do just what was 
proposed... the blast splatter would be interesting , at the least....)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:19:37 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Field Mice

John Lansford wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:07:53 -0000, you wrote:
> 
> >>Let's not even mention honey...and I understand there is a gourmet coffee
> >that
> >uses coffee beans that have been passed through a small mammal's digestive
> >tract.
> >
> >The small mammal is a cat. Cats have a very short digestive tract so the
> >beans emerge little changed. I've never felt the need to try this one....
> 
> How do you get a cat to eat coffee beans? Unless it smells like fish
> or meat, I doubt they will voluntarily consume them.

You must not be a cat owner. ;-)

My cat likes all kinds of strange things, the thing he goes ape over the
most, even more than fish or meat, are *muffins*. He is especially fond
of carrot muffins. He's also fond of several different varieties of
crackers, chips, cheese puffs or nachos. I believe the common ingredient
would be oil -- animal *or* vegetable. (must be cuz it's aromatic...)

It goes without saying that at this time of year, I make sure to rinse
out the empty glasses of egg nog... ;-)

Mind you, I'm *not* a coffee drinker, so I don't know what he'd think of
coffee beans.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:11:24 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Order placed with IG

Robin Crooks writes:
>I placed an order with IG for some traveller books. Its going on a month
>now and I have yet to recieve the books or any response from IG. I plan
>on contesting the charge on my credit card when it shows up on my bill.
>Has anyone else had any of the same problems with IG? I thought maybe
>thier shipping was slow but this is getting ridiculous.
- ----

Odd you should mention that...

I've been waiting since October myself, as have a few other people here in
the Great White North and in New Zealand.  

The first time this happened to me was with the basic T4 rulebook, which I
preordered back before IG could take credit cards (ie. as soon as it was
announced).  Not only was it not ready for GenCon, but instead of shipping
orders on a 'first-received, first-shipped' basis, the old IG shipped all
US orders first.  (While assuring those of us here in Canada that our
orders had been shipped, would be shipped shortly, or whatever that weeks'
excuse was.)  When Sweetpea took over Anne did (finally) ship my
rulebooks, and after a mixup with returning them (they arrived damaged,
and the courier company she wanted me to use didn't have a Canadian phone
number) I ended up with some nice rulebook, some damaged rulebooks, and a
couple of supplements to make up for the six-mont wait.  (Too bad one was
Starships!)

Now it looks like the new management is up to the old practices.  My copy
of Emperor's Vehicles was only shipped after I queried the charge on my
VISA.  I was _told_ that NAM would be shipped after I queried that charge,
but still haven't received it.  And now there's a charge for Imperial
Squadrons...

Yes, we had a postal strike.  But the backlog has been cleared now, and
I've received all the mail I was expecting from everyone except IG.  And
IG hasn't even had the courtesy to answer my recent emails (sent both from
my address and from Dom Mooney's, just to be certain that the message gets
through).

Marc, could you please light a fire under someone?  It was your
intervention that got things back on track last time IG dropped the ball...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:30:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> Scott? Are you *sure* you didn't want to trim that last quote? :-)
> 
> > Various insects (but *not*
> >>cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
> >>universally allergic to). 
> >
> >
> > Scott
> 
> If not, is there something about yourself that you aren't telling us?

Nope; Kenji had stated;

> >cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much          
> >universally allergic to).                                             

And you had made mention of bird's nest soup, and assorted other... 
substances that people eat. 

Of course, the comment about cockroaches came back with a comment from me;


and, of course, the fact that they are the second grossest critters on   
the planet (after spiders) has nothing to do with it...                  


(because, of course, they are the 2nd grossest critters on the planet 
after the spiders)

(I categorically deny that I am actually a secret cockroach Agent 
Provocateur, sent to infiltrate your human Internet and induce you into 
killing yourselves off with Virus infected Near-C asteroids. Besides, I'm 
really a lab mouse, genetically mutated and cybernetically enhanced, 
carrying out a plan to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel
Narf! <Stop that Pinky, or I shall have to hurt you>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:52:27 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Request for Missiles Supplement

In a message dated 97-12-23 18:10:57 EST, you write:

<< I have an electronic file with the text of this supplement. Email me with a
 request ((Subject might best be "Request For Missiles" so I don't miss it).
>>

Mr. Miller,
      Please send me the electronic file of the Missiles supplement from
JTAS...I would really appreciate having it (since I think I was only 9-10
years old when it was put out, and sadly not enlightned to the joys of
Traveller at that time...:-)

Thanks in advance, and Happy Holidays,
Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:22:53 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Happy Holidays

Hope everyone on the List has a very Happy and safe holiday...thanks for
letting me be a part of it!

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 10:59:11 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: What Three Items

On 12/24/97 at 04:09 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>In mail you write:

>> !. My Swiss Army Knife
>>
>> 2. The Hyatt in downtown Chicago
>>
>> 3. A USMC brand (tm) Marine Amphibious Unit
>>
>> : )

>Ok, if you're goinna be *that* way about it....

>1. A portable faber.

>2. a Mr fusion

>3. Lazarus Long

Not for me! I'd prefer...

 1. A portable faber.

 2. A Mr Fusion

and 

 3.  Miss Friday! ;->

Lazarus might be a better survivor, but that doesn't seem to help people
*around* him, and then there's the other thing...;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:31:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Field Mice

On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, John Lansford wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:07:53 -0000, you wrote:
> 
> >>Let's not even mention honey...and I understand there is a gourmet coffee
> >that
> >uses coffee beans that have been passed through a small mammal's digestive
> >tract.
> >
> >The small mammal is a cat. Cats have a very short digestive tract so the
> >beans emerge little changed. I've never felt the need to try this one....
> 
> How do you get a cat to eat coffee beans? Unless it smells like fish
> or meat, I doubt they will voluntarily consume them.

It's actually a 'cat-like' creature, omnivorous, that lives somewhere in
the indonesian islands. It eats the coffee fruits, and excretes the
undigestible seeds, IE beans. 

An old roomate of mine lived in Jamaica for a while, and got to see the
real 'Blue Mountain' coffee plantations. He says that coffee fruits are
actually really tasty, reminiscent of cherries. The caffeine and other
alkaloids in coffee beans are to make the seeds unpalatable to the birds
and small mammals who eat the fruits, who then pass the seeds through
their digestive tracts unchewed, spreading the seeds around. Not an
uncommon plant reproductive strategy <Hu hu he said 'reproductive' hu hu>. 

What is uncommon, and uncommonly pretentious, is collecting the digested
beans and making coffee out of them.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


> 
> John Lansford
> 
> http://users.vnet.net/lansford/a10/intro.htm
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: "Aliens" are bioweapons?.......

In-Reply-To: <409ca272.3494c4c0@aol.com>

SemoFetus,

> According to the original life-cycle designed by Giger for the Alien, it would
> kill or cocoon its victims.  When hungry, it would eat someone.  Sometimes,
> though, it would leave the victim alive and lay an egg inside, while covering
> the victim with a sticky goop.  The egg would eat away at the victim and then
> grow into a new "egg-pod", able to wait and eventually begin the process
> again.  There was a scene that was cut from the film where Ripley found Dallas
> cocooned (ever wonder why they never really showed Dallas' death?), and I
> believe he begged her to kill him, or something similiar.  

The special edition video that came with the trilogy boxed set includes this 
scene (as does the book IIRC).

> Both tidbits are taken from a "the making of..." type book that I saw when I
> was much younger, and has probably since been stolen from my local library.
> In addition it had the original surface suit designs by Moebius (drool!  I am
> a Moebius surface suit fetishist) and a bunch of other really cool stuff...

I think you mean /The Book of Alien/ - a good book if you can find a copy.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:28:04 -0600
From: Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net>
Subject: Re: NEW IG Website

At 01:47 AM 12/24/97 -0600, you wrote:
>OK- a proposed new IG website is up at
>http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/index.htm.  It is very much a work in
>progress.  Please browse over to it and tell me what you think.  I'm open
>to any suggestions/ideas/insults/etc.
>
>
>-Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
>Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
>Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
>"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com
> 

Well it must be a work in progress because clicking on the above link goes
to a classical 404 not found message. Hope to see what it looks like soon. 

graz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:53:29 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2166

Keebler863 wrote:

> PLEASE CANCEL THIS DAMN LIST

Hey fuckhead,

Before you get so belligerent, why don't you say please?  You're the
idiot that lost the welcome post which told you how to unsubscribe from
the list in the first place.

Acting like this, I hope no-one shows you how to get off this list.  I
sure as heck am not.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:53:29 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Kelenit gisuvjengeremit!

WARNING! The containment fields have failed and the Sayat are loose in the
Traveller Language Development List pages!

Rampant tongue root retraction!  Abnormal orthography!  An orgy of lurid
allophony!  Submit to the strict, hard rules of vowel harmony and you may
be safe!

The Sayat phonology page is now erect.

      <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayphon.html>

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:49:53 -0800
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Active sensors

I can think of several reasons why:

1) Noise to signal ratio - every active emitter makes it easy to find the 
sources - but harder to find anything that is not lit up.  In almost any 
Stellar TL planet there will be a fair amount of interplanet traffic.

2) Cost - Transmitters cost money.  Transmitting constantly will eventually 
wear them out.

3) Defense - Having a emmission source makes it really easy to solve the 
fire control problem.

douglas

_________________________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
Http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas

All I ask of a firearm is that it be reliable, accurate, and capable of 
dropping a god at 500 meters
_________________________________________________________________________

- ----------
From: 	SD Mooney[SMTP:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, December 18, 1997 5:30 PM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Active sensors

Not wishing to restart the flames on the piracy debate -

Why doesn't the Imperium insist that all commercial (ie non-military)
vessels operate with Active Sensors lit up all the time. Anything that
doesn't could then be assumed to be potentially hostile and intercepted or
avoided..

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:04:59 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Answers

Scott Taylor wrote:

[snip]
>(It actually *might* occur to a rather perverse Sayat to do just what was
>proposed... the blast splatter would be interesting , at the least....)

Probably only Sayat juvenile delinquents would go for that sort of thing...
adults would think it's wasteful of perfectly good beef.

<click!>  Beavis & Butthead qua Sayat teenyboppers.

I'm going to go make a big thermos of Nog-Soththoth and mull this one over.
It could get... bad.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:30:54 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: NEW IG Website

At 01:47 AM 12/24/97 -0600, you wrote:
>OK- a proposed new IG website is up at
>http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/index.htm.  It is very much a work in
>progress.  Please browse over to it and tell me what you think.  I'm open
>to any suggestions/ideas/insults/etc.

Wow.  I'm very impressed.  If IG doesn't take these pages on, that is the
final sign that something is sriously *wrong* in la-la land.

One suggestion.. In places with long lists of choices, organize them into a
table to keep the items from being a single-column list.  A good example
would be the Links page.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2176
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 25 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2177



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

List going mad?
HO HO HO!
Re: NEW IG Website
Re: Answers
Re: Coffee beans and cats.
gratuitous sex and violence! (was Answers)
Re: Field Mice
RE: NEW IG Website
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Answers
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
[T97#2175] New IG Website
RE: Active sensors
Re: Christmas
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2175
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2166
Happy Holidays
Re: >*field mice* and Turnips!
A Christmas Carole!
Happy Holidays!
Turnips?!
Re: Request for Missiles Supplement
re: Christmas
Fashion in M:0 Solomani Rim

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 20:43 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: List going mad?

Why have I started getting week-old msgs?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 20:43 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: HO HO HO!

Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially
responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral,
winter-solstice holiday, practised within the most joyous
traditions of the religious persuasions of your choice, and
with respect for the religious persuasions of others or
their choice not to practice a religion at all.
 
A fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically
uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar
year 1998, but not without the due respect for the calendars
of choice of other cultures whose contributions to our
society have helped to make our country of choice
great, without regard to race, creed, colour, religious or
sexual preferences of the wishes.
 
(This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It
implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any
of the wishes for him/herself or others).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 20:43 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: NEW IG Website

In-Reply-To: <199712180202.0810500@stl-online.net>

Vanya,

> Okay!  If anyone has any ideas, comments, complaints, information, etc let
> me hear 'em!  I'm in up to my neck!

Sounds good. One thing the old site didn't have which would be useful: a 
note of when each section was last updated.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 20:43 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Answers

In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971224102622.22cfc1b8@pop.uky.edu>

Harold,

> >I volunteer Roderick for a newly-opened position in FS' Leeeeeegal
> >Department.
>  
>    Is that the one in the basement next to the toxic waste storage facility?

No, that's the one in the basement *in* the toxic waste storage facility!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 14:45:32 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Coffee beans and cats.

>>How do you get a cat to eat coffee beans? Unless it smells like fish
>>or meat, I doubt they will voluntarily consume them.

The way I heard it, it's a weasel-like animal on Java that eats the berries
and defecates the beans. The beans go through a "fermentation" process in
this animal's intestines that give the final product a "rich and deeply
satisfying" taste. The beans are collected, cleaned, roasted and sell for
between 30 and 40 dollars a pound.   

None for me, thank you! ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:36:26 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: gratuitous sex and violence! (was Answers)

> From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)

> In-Reply-To: <l03020900b0c4d9532d5b@[142.154.172.24]>
 
> > Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
> > T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
> > values and no gratituous sex and violence.
> 
> Some of my best Traveller sessions have consisted *entirely* of gratuitous 
> sex and violence!

After an evening of Runequest with my old college gaming friend and a
couple of other thirtysomethings, someone noted that thirty-year-olds
play RPGs differently than when they were eighteen.  (Yes, my character
was responsible for much of the sex and violence, but hey -- he didn't
start the violence, and where else was he going to spend that big reward
but with a professional companion?)

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:28:56 GMT
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
Subject: Re: Field Mice

On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:19:37 -0600, you wrote:


>You must not be a cat owner. ;-)

Actually I have three cats, none which are interested in such
perversions (to them) as coffee beans.
>
>My cat likes all kinds of strange things, the thing he goes ape over the
>most, even more than fish or meat, are *muffins*.

One of mine eats broccoli, tomatoes (he chews them up and licks the
juice), and lettuce, though.

John Lansford

http://users.vnet.net/lansford/a10/intro.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:48:00 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: NEW IG Website

On Wednesday, 24 December 1997 12:28, Alex Rebsch
[SMTP:grazzit@flash.net] wrote:
> At 01:47 AM 12/24/97 -0600, you wrote:
> >OK- a proposed new IG website is up at
> >http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/index.htm.  It is very much a work in
> >progress.  Please browse over to it and tell me what you think.  I'm
> >open
> >to any suggestions/ideas/insults/etc.
> >
> >
> >-Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
> >Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far
Future
> >Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
> >"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com
> > 
> 
> Well it must be a work in progress because clicking on the above link
> goes
> to a classical 404 not found message. Hope to see what it looks like
> soon. 
> 
> graz

Yep.  Try

http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/index.html or
http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html.

And, yes, you may get a 404 every now and then as I update, change, and
re-arrange the pages.


- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:53:30 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Evyn MacDude wrote:

>
>Scott Taylor wrote:
>
>> Ny ancestors (and not so ancestors...) the Irish and Scots, used to eat
>> something called (I forget), which was basically porridge or gruel mixed
>> with sheep's blood for protein.
>
>Maybe wrapped in a nice sheeps stomach. I.e Haggis. Or to borrow
>a line, "Scottish cusine is based on a Dare"


	Oh, it is, all right.  Apparently _the_ single most important
development in 17th-century Scottish agriculture was... the turnip.

	And then there's praxie.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:00:13 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Answers

Doug wrote:

>At 03:32 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Roderick Darroch Elliott writes:
>>
>>>	Yow.  I think that what we have here is the worst violation of the
>>>T4 5th Prime Directive here...  you know, the one about wholesome family
>>>values and no gratituous sex and violence.
>>
>>   What?!  Now I'll have to cancel plans for that supplement to Traveller
>>Chronicle #14 entitled, "The Women of Vland, Their Firearms and Fetishes".
>
>And Kirsten was all set to pose with Suz for the cover....
>
>Does this mean you'll publish my 15,000 word "Defense of Gearheadism"
>article that I sent by pigeon?
>
>>   Just remember folks, it was Roderick who spoiled the fun....
>
>I volunteer Roderick for a newly-opened position in FS' Leeeeeegal
>Department.


	Oh, I've already got it, believe me :).  I knocked off work today
at 2:30; even the lawyers were all gone by then, including the one that had
handed me the problem I was working on.  At least he wished me a merry Xmas
as he left :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:28:02 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

Ithklur wrote:

>They got burned with the Traveller:TNE drek (with lots of copies still on the
>shelf), so I don't know if they're willing to risk The New Error (T4).

I don't want to resurrect the TNE vs. T4 debates, but I object to the
notion that TNE somehow contributed in any major way to the downfall of T4.

T4 is falling apart under its own bloated weight. TNE for the most part was
a quality, tight set of products. The art lagged a bit, and the last two
products, one of which was produced with some lame clipart, were subpar,
but for the most part, the TNE products were far superior to 95 percent of
the T4 products that have been published.

With three competing design and mechanics systems, who can blame players
from being confused and discouraged with T4. For an RPGer, that's like
buying a house and then finding out that the foundation is made out of
particle board. At least with TNE you had *one* coherent system.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 00:51:11 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T97#2175] New IG Website

On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 06:20:27 -0500, "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
wrote:

>> I've toyed with proposing administering the website myself (it can be done nicely
>> from a remote site as well as a local console - with the right setup) but time is a
>> real issue with me.  That and...well...I know HTML, I can throw together a website
>> and keep it running, but it will never be as fancy as some of the sites I've seen on
>> the webring.  (Of course, it will _load_ quickly!  :)  Has anyone jumped at the offer
>> that went out last week about maintaining the site?

>That would be , with others, me.  Yes, I'm crazy enough, young enough, and
>stupid enough to do it.

>This is part of the first interchange of ideas:
>- =
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- --
>- -

>>       I'd like to see what you two can put together as a new website =
for I.G..
>> It should contain errata for their products. It would be nice to see a
>> description of their products. It should be readable by the Lynx =
reader and
>> also IE3 and NS3.

>Okay, say a base of HTML 3.0, no browser-specific extensions, and =
nothing
>fancy (no shockwave, etc).  I generally feel that webpages that are
>correct will look good in *any* browser.

HTML 3.0 won't do it for Lynx; I think you'll have to stick to
2.0 or even 1.0.  Or at least avoid things like tables that are
part of the late specs but not the early specs.

>As a start, I can see a quick table of contents shaping up as such:

>BoilerPlate (IG Home page, welcome, etc)
>	About IG (information about IG)
>		IG News (company press releases, etc)=09
>		IG Events (conventions, contests)
>		Contacting IG (email addresses, snail mail)
>		Submission Guidelines (updated, include online JTAS?)

Include the IG FAQ here, also forthcoming products and
publication schedule.

=46WIW, I originally intended Freelance Traveller to be a sort of
JTAS-Plus On-Line; if the New IG Page can come up with a nice
visual theme, I'll re-do Freelance Traveller to match, and it can
be used as the JTAS-equivalent.  That saves you as IG page
maintainer some effort (and gets FT some extra publicity <grin>).

>	Traveller Library Data (Traveller main page)
>		Traveller News Service (TNS reprints, new news, if possible)
>		Traveller Products (one page per product, includes cover, info, errata
>link, possible review?)

There is an important issue on reviews: If you are the "official
voice", are you going to want/be permitted to have negative
reviews?  Negative reviews (as for Starships) will have the
effect of discouraging purchase; I could easily understand IG not
wanting this to occur.  OTOH, if there are only positive reviews,
the reviewers all risk being viewed as "bought and paid for"
publicists for IG, and their comments will be discounted.

Certainly, having reviews will be beneficial in that it will
allow potential purchasers to make _informed_ decisions; on that
basis, I support the idea of having reviews.  But that first
issue is pertinent.

>		Errata (separate errata pages, linked to from Products page also)

Absolutely.

>		Traveller Art (Traveller themed artwork, and possible Foss work.  =
Other
>Traveller artist?)

You might want to contact Chris Cox and Mike Linsenmayer.  Both
have done nice artwork that I feel is very Travelleresque.

>		X-Boat Routes	(links to other Traveller/gaming sites)

Oh, please - call them something else - this feels "hokey".

>		Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society (possible online JTAS -big
>maybe-)
>			Amber Zones (short adventures)
>			Casual Encounters (interesting NPCs)
>			Emperors Arsenal (weapon designs)
>			Emperors Vehicles (vehicle designs)
>			...etc...
>	=09
>(All of the JTAS stuff at the bottom is pure speculation at the time, =
but
>would really be neat!)

The offer of FT for this still stands.

>This is just a rough idea of the site structure, and it will definitely =
be
>refined as construction begins.  With that in mind, I will start on the
>creation of a sample site (three to five pages) tonight and have it up =
for
>perusal by this weekend, publish the url on the TML, and get feedback.  =
I
>will also initiate a discussion on the TML tonight and gather
>ideas/wants/etc.

I would encourage _everyone_ here to visit the site and give
feedback on it; _I_ certainly intend to.  I wish I could have
gotten more feedback on Freelance Traveller - which, I admit, is
in need of updating; right now, I'm working on a New Look for it
- - the next update should have more features and a "slicker" look.

>I expect to be able to pound out a page every couple of days (especially
>with the products pages) and could build this site in a couple of weeks =
in
>my spare time, and spend a Saturday morning every other week updating =
and
>maintain the site.  Of course, this site won't have any feedback
>facilities like the readers survey or online ordering.  Those could take=
 a
>lot longer)

There's a lot of pre-built stuff out there for handling feedback;
write me privately if you're interested in pursuing the idea;
there's info I'll need to know about your host before I can
advise you properly.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:37:56 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: RE: Active sensors

At 11:49 AM 12/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I can think of several reasons why:
>
>1) Noise to signal ratio - every active emitter makes it easy to find the 
>sources - but harder to find anything that is not lit up.  In almost any 
>Stellar TL planet there will be a fair amount of interplanet traffic.

But at higher TL's the increased selectivity and sensitivity will deal with
the S/N ratio problems.

>2) Cost - Transmitters cost money.  Transmitting constantly will eventually 
>wear them out.

Wrong Assumption, a transmitter putting out CW will last longer than one
putting out a PRF pulse. It has to do with the turning on and off of the
the transmitter. Hot Cold etc Thermo breakdown. Besides they don't wear out
they just have descrete compenents that break down due to thermobreakdown.

>3) Defense - Having a emmission source makes it really easy to solve the 
>fire control problem.

Not true by todays use, even more so in the far future. I can think of
several scenarios that make it difficult to get a FCS.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:44:59 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Christmas

> 
>    Merry Christmas to all and to all a good fright!
>                      Ken(VargrA8C7A@aol.com)
> 

Ahh, have a milkbone, will ya?  :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 00:32:35 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2175

On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 06:20:27 -0500, Robin Crooks
<rstanek@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>I placed an order with IG for some traveller books. Its going on a month
>now and I have yet to recieve the books or any response from IG. I plan
>on contesting the charge on my credit card when it shows up on my bill.

You are not the only one who is planning on challenging a billing
from IG.  Back in September, they debited my preorder for $20; as
near as I can figure, this was supposed to have been for NAH.
Last month, when they shipped it and the following product (I'd
have to sort through the pile to see which one it is), they
debited my account _twice_ for $20.  IOW, I got billed twice for
a single product.

I also specifically requested that I _either_ be notified in
advance of billings _or_ that an invoice be included with the
shipment (I have email to and from Ann about this); this is to
ensure that my records are kept up to date.  I have yet to see
either happen.  I have reached the point where I consider IG's
business practices to be ethically questionable _at_best_; there
is certainly reasonable cause to believe that some of them may be
outright illegal.  I can no longer view this as disorganization
and inexperience; it has gone on long enough, and with enough
complaints from readers of this list that I can only assume that
there is premeditation and intent behind these practices.  If IG
does not shape up, I will consider myself morally obligated to
notify the Attorneys General of New York (where I am) and
California (where IG is) in an effort to have these problems
corrected.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 17:02:21 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2166

To get off the Traveller email list, type the following :

send to : blinton@whitehouse.gov

in the body of your email :

I'm a communist and you suck!

send email.

<smirk>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:21:22 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Happy Holidays

Greetings One and All,

   Approximately 2,000 years ago an event took place that changed the
course of human history.

   I of course speak of a certain Germanic tribe which decided not to
follow the others moving west toward Roman Gaul, but instead settle
along the coast of what is now northern Germany.  Because of their
decision I know sit here typing this today...

   OK, this is really about the holiday season.  Here's hoping that all
of you are having a happy and healthy one.  May you find peace and joy
now and in the year to come.

Regards,

Harold D. Hale

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 21:23:29 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: >*field mice* and Turnips!

On 12/24/97 at 03:53 PM,  Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net> said:

>	Oh, it is, all right.  Apparently _the_ single most important development
>in 17th-century Scottish agriculture was... the turnip.

Yeah, and the Scots still got it wrong.  You're supposed to eat the *green*
end, not the white one! ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 21:27:09 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A Christmas Carole!

On 12/24/97 at 04:00 PM,  Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net> said:

>	Oh, I've already got it, believe me :).  I knocked off work today at
>2:30; even the lawyers were all gone by then, including the one that had
>handed me the problem I was working on.  At least he wished me a merry
>Xmas as he left :).

His name wouldn't be Ebenezer would it? ;->

....and Tiny Tim raises his crutch and says, "It's *damn* cold in this
house, let's go to Disneyworld...one and all!"

Eris,
    the heretic of Traveller past
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:19:23 -0800
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Happy Holidays!

Best wishes to you all (even the one's I don't agree with! :) for this holiday season!

douglas
_________________________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
Http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas

All I ask of a firearm is that it be reliable, accurate, and capable of dropping a god at 500 meters
_________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 23:35:33 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Turnips?!

> On 12/24/97 at 03:53 PM,  Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net> said:
> 
> >	Oh, it is, all right.  Apparently _the_ single most important
development
> >in 17th-century Scottish agriculture was... the turnip.
> 
> Yeah, and the Scots still got it wrong.  You're supposed to eat the
*green*
> end, not the white one! ;->
> 
> Eris

I beg to differ, both ends are equally distasteful!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 97 16:54:19 EST5EDT
From: "mik_croc" <mik_croc@mail.fastlink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Request for Missiles Supplement

Dear mr miller,
  
                      ME TOO!!,  ME TOO !!!!!!!!


   sorry, i reverted back to age 12;   which was how old i was when it came out.



         seriously, could you please send me a copy as well.




          Hangfire

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:58:20 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Christmas

MJ Dougherty writes
>This may or may not get to the list in time for Christmas - have a good
>one, by the way everyone!

>This may or may not get to the list in time for Christmas - have a good
>one, by the way everyone!

'Twas 358-0001, and in all the systems
not a starship was stirring, not even in Glisten...

....and I heard him on maser-comm, 'ere he jumped out of sight
"Merry Christmas to all, it's the end of Long Night!"

(From "A visit from Emporer Cleon", a traditional poem of unknown
authorship.)
(I'd continue, but the my ability to come up with rhymes is already
exhausted (as can be seen above.) Any suggestions? What rhymes with
"Spooflum" or "Sayat", anyway?)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:46:14 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Fashion in M:0 Solomani Rim

The reintroduction of the skirt in the Old Earth Union

During the later years of the Interstellar Wars and the Rule of Man, the
skirt and dress entirely disappeared, replaced by the ubiquitous unisex
jumpsuit or slacks and shirt combination which came to dominate fashion
throught the Rim during during the Long Night. Many reasons have been
advanced for this; the final achievement of equality between the genders,
the abandonment of luxury under the presure of the Vilani threat, the lack
of practicality of the dress or skirt in space etc. None of these reasons
hold up to close scrutiny, but it remains that for some reason over a 200
year period the dress and skirt vanished from humaniti's collective wardrobe,
not to return for some 2000 years.

Naturally after so long an absence, the return of the skirt has been marked
by controvesy and scandal. The first inciling of the return can be found in
Yokio Verruchi's summer collection intorduced on Terra in 4537AD (year 18
under Imperial reaconing). Her use of a colourful short breach clout [a very
short apron like accessory] over a traditional shirt/trouser combination
created a storm of comment at the time. Most orthodox designers condemed it
as a pointless fad, but next season many young and upcomming designers had
worked the breach clout into their offerings; and they were to been seen on
many daring socialites of both genders.

The next major development came in 4544AD (25 Imperial). Over the intervening
years the breach clout had been gradually achieving more acceptance, having
become almost respectable in certain circles. However the entire Old Earth
Union was scandalised when Ulongo M'bow took the basic breach clout and
turned it into a complete wraparound. Many commentators where shocked by this
development, claiming it drew far too much attention to the hips and buttocks.
Several major retail chains refused to carry any of M'bow's designs as a
result. However it did catch on with a minority of the young and the scandal
may have actually aided it's acceptance in certain circles; it is interesting
to note that Hine Gordon (founder of the Hellfire Movement) was seen wearing
a wraparound on a number of occassions before her death. However despite
this, the wraparound remained an item only worn by the daring for at least a
decade.

The next stage was slow in coming and notable for being far more widely
adopted by women than men. In 4557AD (38 Imperial) Yokio Verruchi took what
now appears the minor step in transforming the short wraparound into a short
overskirt (still worn as an accessory over trousers or a jumpsuit). Even
though this was on the surface a very minor innovation, it caused a greater
scandal than M'bow's introduction of the wraparound. Most of the fashion
establishment was agast at Verruchi's 57 winter collection. Compaired with
the soft lines of the wraparound, the overskirt's hard lines were regarded
as altogether too provocative. Even amongst the 'smart set' in which the
wraparound was now widely accepted (if still considered daring), the
overskirt was very slow in being adopted. However Verruchi perservered with
it. In her 58 summer collection, she lengthed the overskirt and added a soft
flowing flounce [attachment at the back, similar in effect to a bustle] with
a light fabric cascade.

Over the next few years Verruchi's designs where characterised by the both
the developing overskirt and the flounce (added to both wraparounds and more
conventional trousers and jumpsuits). Slowly Verruchi's overskirt and flounce
were taken up by other designers; and while they have yet to achieve even
the limited social acceptance of the wraparound, they are both now well
established as independent fashion trends. As previously noted, the overskirt
was not adopted in mens fashion until well into the 4560's and is still a
much less common feature in men's fashion than in women's.

This situation remained relatively static for the next nine years or so.
However over this period there was a slow trend for the overskirt to lengthen
(going from just below the hip in Verruchi's intial offering, to just below
the knee in Adam Frazers 65 summer collection). However the entire fashion
industry was taken aback in 4566AD (47 Imperial) when Jane Husaski unveiled
her summer collection. In this she took the overskirt, lengthened it to mid
calf, and made it an idependent garment; doing away with the trousers or
jumpsuit entirely. The resulting uproar made the scandals surrounding the
wraparound and overskirt seem positively tame by comparison. Claims that she
was perverting public morals were leveled at Husaski; and one socialite was
even charged and convicted of leud and indecent behaviour for wearing one of
Husaski's creations to a diplomatic function. Numerious politicans called for
such lacivious clothing to be banned and many social commentators decried
it as a sign of imminent social collapse. Many are still outraged by the
appearance of a skirt as a solo garment.

Naturally, this almost universal condemnation by 'the establishment' lead to
cautious popularity amongst the young. Many daring young men and women were
soon to be seen wearing shirt and skirt combinations without the benefit of
trousers (clothing sure to get one barred in respectable resaurants). The
situation was further confused in 4571AD (53 Imperial) when a year before her
death Verruchi combined the overskirt with the shirt to produce a high thigh
length dress worn over trousers (another development decried in polite
society).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2177
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2178



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2177
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2175
Happy Holidays
Re: Turnips?!
Re: Answers
Re: Answers
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Anyone out there still play Traveller:2300(particularly ship design and combat)?
Re: Fashion in M:0 Solomani Rim
Re: NEW IG Website
Re: Turnips?!
Re: Anyone out there still play Traveller:2300(particularly ship design and combat)?
Re: Answers
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2175
Re: HO HO HO!
Re: New IG Website (long)
<Poof!>?
More info for the Aramis Subsector
re: Sensors
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 11:53:50 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2177

On Thu, 25 Dec 1997 06:00:46 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:28:02 -0700
>From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
>Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
>
>Ithklur wrote:
>
>>They got burned with the Traveller:TNE drek (with lots of copies still on the
>>shelf), so I don't know if they're willing to risk The New Error (T4).
>
>I don't want to resurrect the TNE vs. T4 debates, but I object to the
>notion that TNE somehow contributed in any major way to the downfall of T4.
>
>T4 is falling apart under its own bloated weight. TNE for the most part was
>a quality, tight set of products. The art lagged a bit, and the last two
>products, one of which was produced with some lame clipart, were subpar,
>but for the most part, the TNE products were far superior to 95 percent of
>the T4 products that have been published.

I must say that (shock!horror!) I agree *entirely*. The Physical Product that
GDW produced was always either top quality (CTrav and MTrav) or not too far off
(TNE). IG don't have a clue.

On the other hand, notice that I haven't once mentioned the *background* of TNE!

>With three competing design and mechanics systems, who can blame players
>from being confused and discouraged with T4. For an RPGer, that's like
>buying a house and then finding out that the foundation is made out of
>particle board. At least with TNE you had *one* coherent system.

This is where we have to part company. I think that the TNE background and
technology was so flawed that I cannot agree.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 09:28:21
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2175

Atubject: Re: NEW IG Website
>
>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
>Subject: re: Uncie Hengie ... weeeee've finished it
>
>>Weeee reckon that the White Lighning is a pretty-weeeety good fwigate.
>>
>
>
>	So do I.  If you recall, I did up a variant packing a single
>SSDS-stock NPAW...  However, if two fit, hooray!  Besides, the damage for
>FF&S2-designed weapons seems radically higher.
>

My take on it, is that given the basic formula of five times the square
root of the effective energy output at the range, if you have a bigger
number than their armour factor, then they are in trouble, and if you dont,
then they arent.

ROF shouldnt count for much if you cant do internals, although surface
damage may be an issue for ships with surface areas that are 99% used by
sensors, radiators and such (part of why I like battery-powered starships -
no surface area required). I can also see a case for surface damage
disrupting the Lanthanum grid for starships - possibly a modification of
one per surface hit to the misjump roll, unless you get somewhere quiet, a
vacc suited engineer and a couple of cans of lanthanum-rich paint.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, by my own logic the White Lightning should have one
bigger PAW rather than two smaller ones.

Also, I really, really, really dislike the T4/Starships approach of
ablative armour. Armour should either stop the shot and be intact, or not
stop the shot, and have whatever was behind the armour in trouble. Heck,
this approach even cuts down on paperwork - no need to record ablation of
armour value.

But the White Lightning needs more sand. A lot more sand. Sand, especially
clouds of sand big enough to stop the biggest laser at the current maximum
TL, keeps you alive.

Oh yeah, speaking of keeping you alive, has anyone done a design of a ship
optimised against Meson Guns, consisting of a very large, very thinly
arnmoured sphere with *lots* of waste space and *very* heavy component
armour around the actual critical components ? If it's a non-starship, then
mass, not volume is the issue (volume does not affect acceleration at all,
when using realistic thrust), and air is very light ...

>	Gah.  Would write more, but am dog tired and have to work tomorrow
>and then come home and do Xmas dinner.
>
>	Tell Ditzie to let Mr. O'Malley out of his stateroom and have him
>checked into Detox.  And tell Payroll to dock his pay for the little yellow
>pills; they aren't one of the fringe benefits covered in his contract.

BTW - real life legal note. Mr O'Malley is a real lawyer, who heads up the
division I work in. I do not imply in any way, shape or form that he abuses
dangerous drugs. But I know that he has read the draft Employment Services
Contract, and it makes me giggle like I just imbibed in a couple of cones
of Mullumbimby Madness (I'll put it this way ... there is a *reason* Ditzie
is so mean to FS' Legal Department).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 07:06:52 -0700
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Happy Holidays

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 97 09:50:30 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Turnips?!

On 12/24/97 at 11:35 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>I beg to differ, both ends are equally distasteful!

While I'll admit turnip greens aren't as scrump-de-delicious as collard
greens, then aren't distasteful...if prepared correctly. Beats asparagas
anyway! ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 05:10:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Answers

In mail you write:

> Scott Taylor wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>(It actually *might* occur to a rather perverse Sayat to do just what was
>>proposed... the blast splatter would be interesting , at the least....)
>
> Probably only Sayat juvenile delinquents would go for that sort of thing...
> adults would think it's wasteful of perfectly good beef.

Not "beef". Beef comes from cattle. Just like pork comes from pigs.

*Everyone* knows that meat from K'kree is "kreef". Thus leading to the
common expression at some barbecues: "Good kreef!"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 05:07:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Answers

In mail you write:

>>Leonard Erickson wrote; 
>> In mail you write:
>> 
> < list of Leonard's alleged crimes deleted>
>> > (Of course, I'm sure he didn't *intend* it to be taken that way...)
>> 
>> You're sure about that are you? :-)
>> 
>> (Actually, *I* am not sure about my intent, other than the fact that I
>> knew darn well the idea was both "logical: *and* extremely perverse)
>
> Hey!
>
> I was trying to keep you out of trouble... now there are folks (well, 
> folk) who want to get you disintigrated, y'know...
>
> :-)
>
> (It actually *might* occur to a rather perverse Sayat to do just what was 
> proposed... the blast splatter would be interesting , at the least....)

Congratulations, Scott!

You've just invented a Sayat art form. Sort of a cross between the
folks who throw paint at the canvas, and the folks who use explosives
for sculpture.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:15:33 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

In a message dated 97-12-24 22:29:25 EST, you write:

<< I don't want to resurrect the TNE vs. T4 debates, but I object to the
 notion that TNE somehow contributed in any major way to the downfall of T4.
>>

You're objecting to something that was never implied.  What I meant was that
the last incarnation of Traveller sold miserably for them, regardless of how
good/bad a system it was.  Years later, they still have just about every TNE
book in overstock.  I can see why they would be hesitant to restock anything
with "Traveller" on it, especially in light of the pitiful quality of T4.  And
it hasn't been selling here.  Thus the 20% off bin.

Ithklur (holding tight for GURPS Traveller)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:07:31 EST
From: ClifBo <ClifBo@aol.com>
Subject: Anyone out there still play Traveller:2300(particularly ship design and combat)?

I am working on a program for Traveller: 2300 ship design and combat.  I have
found a few discrepancies and/or omissions in the rules which I need cleared
up in order to proceed.  I could use the help of anyone with extensive
experience designing ships, ship combat, or both.  So far, Ive only come up
with a couple of questions:

1)  On the Ship Status Sheets (from both the original game set and "Ships of
the French 
Arm), almost consistently, there is one (1) communicator for each Remote Pilot
Work 
Station in the TAC.  However, I do not find Communicators associated with 
Submunitions.  Once a Submunition is launched, does it not need to be
controlled by a 
Remote Pilot?  Or, is it given targeting data before being launched?

2)  In light of the previous question, is a Submunition controlled/launched by
a Fire Control 
Work Station?

If you can help, great! If not, do you know someone who can?  Thanks for your
time.

Regards,
Rick
clifbo@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:21:30 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fashion in M:0 Solomani Rim

In a message dated 97-12-25 06:53:49 EST, you write:

<< Naturally, this almost universal condemnation by 'the establishment' lead
to
 cautious popularity amongst the young. Many daring young men and women were
 soon to be seen wearing shirt and skirt combinations without the benefit of
 trousers (clothing sure to get one barred in respectable resaurants). The
 situation was further confused in 4571AD (53 Imperial) when a year before her
 death Verruchi combined the overskirt with the shirt to produce a high thigh
 length dress worn over trousers (another development decried in polite
 society). >>

Oh, my God, Elsa Clench must have been lost in a low-berth and recently
revived!

;-)

"On our next show, Aslan SuperModel Rrowrrow!"

Ithklur

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 97 19:52 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: NEW IG Website

In-Reply-To: <199712241827.MAA17038@endeavor.flash.net>

Alex,

> Well it must be a work in progress because clicking on the above link goes
> to a classical 404 not found message. Hope to see what it looks like soon.

Try:

http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 19:34:56 -0500
From: "Peter L. Berghold" <PeterB@Cyber-Wizard.Com>
Subject: Re: Turnips?!

At 09:50 AM 12/25/97 -0600, you wrote:
>While I'll admit turnip greens aren't as scrump-de-delicious as collard
>greens, then aren't distasteful...if prepared correctly. Beats asparagas
>anyway! ;->
>

I don't know about them beating asparagus, I like them both each for their
own reasons...

- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
- -+-+-+-+-
Peter L. Berghold   -- Unix Curmudgeon at Large
TCG MIS Planning and Architecture Group
VOX: (732) 392-2722   http://www.monmouth.com
mailto:PeterB@Cyber-Wizard.Com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:55:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Victor J. Raymond" <RAYMOND@macalester.edu>
Subject: Re: Anyone out there still play Traveller:2300(particularly ship design and combat)?

 
You might try the following address:
 
ad2300@mars.galstar.com
 
That's the Traveller:2300AD mailing list address.
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:26:26 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Answers

Leonard Erickson wrote:

[snip[
>> (It actually *might* occur to a rather perverse Sayat to do just what was
>> proposed... the blast splatter would be interesting , at the least....)
>
>Congratulations, Scott!
>
>You've just invented a Sayat art form. Sort of a cross between the
>folks who throw paint at the canvas, and the folks who use explosives
>for sculpture.

Lending a peculiarly aesthetic dimension of menace to the catchphrase of
Ms. Hurkiptan of the No. 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Committee: "Betcha
that'll blow up real good."  Cf.
www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/saynpc.html.

This is also probably the source of the Sayat art-terrorist slang "lighting
up some kreefer".

Speaking of which, did anyone know that marijuana, passed through the first
stage of K'kree digestion, is worth a fortune on the black market?
"Psst... wanna score some cud?"


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:26:21 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2175

Ian wrote:

[snip]
>ROF shouldnt count for much if you cant do internals, although surface
>damage may be an issue for ships with surface areas that are 99% used by
>sensors, radiators and such (part of why I like battery-powered starships -
>no surface area required).

I think the Sayat may have already corrupted the Spofulam gene pool... or
drug supply, or whatever the correct analogue is.

A: "Are those battery-powered ben-wa balls?"

B: "No, it's a Sayat attack fleet."

C: "Same difference.  Run away!"

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:26:15 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: HO HO HO!

Andrew Boulton wrote:

>Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially
>responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral,
>winter-solstice holiday, practised within the most joyous
>traditions of the religious persuasions of your choice, and
>with respect for the religious persuasions of others or
>their choice not to practice a religion at all.
[snip]

I feel it would be appropriate to call you on your discrimination towards
non-readers and differently sighted persons, as evidenced by your use of
oppressively written standards of communication; and more than that, your
preferential treatment of those economically and socially privileged
fractions of the people of the world who have access to the internet.
Furthermore, I must deplore your complicity in the ongoing hegemony of
English.  Or Proto-Galanglic, as the case may be.

In caring dismay,

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:34:06 -0600
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: New IG Website (long)

The following is a combined reply from some of the people who have sent me
feedback of the proposed new IG Traveller pages.  Thanks for the comments,
and keep 'em coming!

From: Jeff Zeitlin <jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com>

>HTML 3.0 won't do it for Lynx; I think you'll have to stick to
>2.0 or even 1.0.  Or at least avoid things like tables that are
>part of the late specs but not the early specs.

I do intend to keep the pages as simple as possible.  I gave a copy of
Lynx, and have been checking the pages to make sure that they will degrade
as gracefully as possible.  Tables are almost too useful to give up.

>Include the IG FAQ here, also forthcoming products and
>publication schedule.

Excellent idea!  This is a must do.

>FWIW, I originally intended Freelance Traveller to be a sort of
>JTAS-Plus On-Line; if the New IG Page can come up with a nice
>visual theme, I'll re-do Freelance Traveller to match, and it can
>be used as the JTAS-equivalent.  That saves you as IG page
>maintainer some effort (and gets FT some extra publicity <grin>).

Any decisions on the JTAS stuff will be made later, but thanks for the
offer.  This just might be the optimum solution.

>Certainly, having reviews will be beneficial in that it will
>allow potential purchasers to make _informed_ decisions; on that
>basis, I support the idea of having reviews.  But that first
>issue is pertinent.

Yep, it's IG's call as to whether these pages will be adopted or not, and
it's really up to them what goes on it - especially anything as touchy as
a review.  Luckily, it's not my call. :)


>You might want to contact Chris Cox and Mike Linsenmayer.  Both
>have done nice artwork that I feel is very Travelleresque.

Yes, I just got email from Mr. Linsenmayer with two *very nice* pictures
attached.  If anyone else is doing Traveller themed art and would like it
on these pages, I'll take it.  I would like to place a couple of pieces
from each artists on the page, and then a link to their site with their
other works.

>There's a lot of pre-built stuff out there for handling feedback;
>write me privately if you're interested in pursuing the idea;
>there's info I'll need to know about your host before I can
>advise you properly.

I'm kind of undecided about what to do about feedback  ( I maintain a
corporate intranet for a living), since I know nothing about IG's current
setup, server, or anything else.



> From: Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net>

> One suggestion.. In places with long lists of choices, organize them
into a
> table to keep the items from being a single-column list.  A good example
> would be the Links page.

Also, If anyone else has any links to add to the links page, send them to
me with a short description and the site.  I will be re-doing the links
page and cleaning up the dead links soon.

> From: Andrew Boulton <aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
 
> Sounds good. One thing the old site didn't have which would be useful: a

> note of when each section was last updated.

Your command is my wish.  there will be a 'Last updated' line on the
footer of each page.



Keep those comments/ideas/insults coming!

Yours in Traveller,
	(I really like the sound of that)
- -Danny

- -aka Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 00:06:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: <Poof!>?

>(I categorically deny that I am actually a secret cockroach Agent 
>Provocateur, sent to infiltrate your human Internet and induce you into 
>killing yourselves off with Virus infected Near-C asteroids. Besides, I'm 
>really a lab mouse, genetically mutated and cybernetically enhanced, 

        <Poof!>?

                Shouldn't you have become a hamster?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 00:24:37 -0800
From: "Kevin Bingham" <kbingham@metro.net>
Subject: More info for the Aramis Subsector

Soon I am planning to run the Traveller Adventure and I was wonder if anyone
has additional info for the Armais Subsector. Extended system and planetary
info would be most appreicated, though I will gladly take anything else.

Thanx!

Cap'n Bink
kevin@technologist.com
- --------------------------------------
ARTHUR: You know it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon
airlock with a man from Betelgeuse, and about to die of asphyxiation in deep
space, that I really whish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was
young.
FORD: Why, what did she tell you?
ARTHUR: I don't know, I didn't listen.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 00:24:47 -0800
From: "Kevin Bingham" <kbingham@metro.net>
Subject: re: Sensors

Okay, now to lay to rest a few things about pirates and sensors in my mind,
and hopefully other's minds too.

The whole pirate and sensor issue often denotes that pirates are practically
broadcasting that they are pirates by the fact that they don't have their
transponders active. Would you get near a ship that did not have its
transponders active? Of course not! So what is a greedy pirate to do? Steal
a transponder or create a forgery. This would allow the pirates get close
enough to another ship to attack, threaten, or cajole.

But alas, we forget, when there is money to be had, many other ways will be
found. So just a few ideas..... <grin><maniacal laugh><heeehehe, haahaahar>
(oh, okay, more than a few)

(Note: for clarity, though it might be redundant, I have capitalized Pirate,
and called the victims of the Pirate Ship(s) Targets. A Target ship can
either mean a ship of plundering opportunity or even planned piracy)

- -A Pirate ship with a regular transponder, can get close enough to a target
ship to threaten with superior fire power.
- -A Pirate ship can send off a Mayday / Signal G.K. to attract a Target ship
to rescue, then attack.
- -A Pirate ship might be able to lay-in-wait in "stealth mode" (a ship with a
low sensor signature)
- -Pirates could create limpet missiles or limpet mines that attach to a ship,
and then threaten to blow the Target ship up if they don't surrender.
- -A Pirate ship could pose as Imperial inspectors to board and attack.
- -Pirates could hide in cargo containers in the cargo hold of the Target
ship.
- -The right Pirate ship could out maneuver the Target ship, 1G vs. 2G+ and a
good computer system (to match and maintain vectors) to approach and clamp
down and grapple another ship.
(Remember, not all ships are armed)
- -Pirates with a small ship (a powerful fighter) could subdue a Target ship
and send in a boarding party using a launch. And then if needed dump some
cargo and stash their small Pirate vessels in a cargo hold and jump out of
system.
- -A Pirate ship could use jammers so Maydays could not be detected by the
local System Defense.
- -A Pirate ship could use a EMP missiles to knock out the ship. Of course
they would have to be careful with this one, else the Pirate ship could be
knocked out too. Though pirates who do this are out for cargo only because
the EMP would totally waste a ship's electronics.
- -If a Pirate ship can knock out a Target's weapons, sensors, and maneuver;
the Target ship would be a sitting duck (yes, a tall order). Most of these
things will be found on the surface of a ship (just polish that ship's
surface), leaving that soft interior ready to plunder. Especially without
sensors, things get difficult if the Targeted ship cannot see what is
attacking, no counter-attacking or evading. (Of course, this depends what
kind of maneuver drives are used, Plates or HEPLAR)
- -Pirates could sabotage a Target ship by sneaking on board and cause
problems of all sorts. Such as a virus in the computer system that makes a
ship jump to a secluded location, with pirates laying in wait.
- -Pirates could pose as passengers... (done many times before, I know, but it
still has possibilities)
- -Pirates would find that planets orbiting gas giants make perfect plunder
areas because it takes forever to leave the 100dia limit, thus increasing
the opportunity to make a move.
- -Pirates could lay-in-wait at a common exit or entrance vector. I imagine
that ships will exit and enter systems within common vectors, since a ship
needs to match vector with destination.
- -Pirates most likely will have someone at port that can spy and give info
about leaving ships... where the Target ship is going, what cargo it is
carrying (and select high value cargoes).  Then a signal can be sent to the
Pirate ship ready to pounce.
- -Remember, a Pirate that successfully pirates a heavy hauler with the right
cargo (spies again) would only need to do so often. High returns mean less
ships that need to be pirated.
- -A Pirate ship could lay-in-wait on a backwater, low tech, low ship traffic
world. Even better is getting a Targeted ship to go to that world by the
Pirates commissioning cargo to be taken there.
- -Pirates when they can, would of course take the whole ship, and either use
it for themselves, forge papers for it and sell it, or even have a Chop Shop
cut it up and sell or use the parts.
- -Pirates would try to obtain accurate long range weapons to disable Target
ships at distance, and then move in.
- -Pirates could use asteroid ships (always fun), being disguised as a rock
often gives surprise advantage upon a Target ship.

Overall cunning, superior firepower, and surprise will make a Pirate gang
successful.

Have fun with these. Open for comments, debate, and just lots of pirate fun.
Some will work better than others.

SHOW NO MERCY ME MATIES, HARHAR!

Cap'n Bink
kevin@technologist.com
- --------------------------------------
ARTHUR: You know it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon
airlock with a man from Betelgeuse, and about to die of asphyxiation in deep
space, that I really whish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was
young.
FORD: Why, what did she tell you?
ARTHUR: I don't know, I didn't listen.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:46:56 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

At 11:53 AM 12/25/97 GMT, you wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Dec 1997 06:00:46 -0500, you wrote:

>>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:28:02 -0700
>>From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
>>Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

>>Ithklur wrote:

>>>They got burned with the Traveller:TNE drek (with lots of copies still on the
>>>shelf), so I don't know if they're willing to risk The New Error (T4).

>>I don't want to resurrect the TNE vs. T4 debates, but I object to the
>>notion that TNE somehow contributed in any major way to the downfall of T4.

>>T4 is falling apart under its own bloated weight. TNE for the most part was
>>a quality, tight set of products. The art lagged a bit, and the last two
>>products, one of which was produced with some lame clipart, were subpar,
>>but for the most part, the TNE products were far superior to 95 percent of
>>the T4 products that have been published.

>I must say that (shock!horror!) I agree *entirely*. The Physical Product that
>GDW produced was always either top quality (CTrav and MTrav) or not too far off
>(TNE). IG don't have a clue.

Okay once again this image of IG putting out nothing other than crap raises
it's ugly head. Now I have some very real (read huge) problems with the way
that IG conducts business; to the extent that I'm seriously considering
taking legal action against them. But that concerns them delivering their
products, not the products themselves.

Just what is wrong with the physical product produced by IG? Full of errors?
Well generally not. Yes Starships and First Survey were utter disasters,
the basic rulebook had two serious ommissions (but an errata was produced
in a timely fashion), Fire Fusion and Steel had one serious ommission
(but again an errata was forthcoming) and Emperors Vehicles had one
mindboggling error (no TL data). Just how many errors are there in
Central Supply Catalog, Aliens Archive, Mileau O, Emperors Arsenal, Pocket
Empires, Psionic Institutes, Anomolies, Naval Architects Handbook, Imperial
Squadrons, The Long Way Home, Gateway, The Referee's Screen, Journal 25 or
Journal 26? That's 2 disasters (Starships, FS); 1 very poor (EV); 2 could
do better (T4 rules, FFS) and 15 good to excellent. Hardly a constant stream
of crap.

Layout problems? I'm a professional graphic artist. My job depends on layout
and delivering information in a concise and interesting manner. I would say
that all of IG's products achieve that goal. The charts grouped at the back
idea was interesting, it has proved to have more minuses than pluses, but it
was a worthwhile experiment. The now infamous typo in FFS, well I have no
idea how that got through; an utter failure from setting to binding, but it
is just one out of twenty products. The cover and interior art. I was taught
that if an illustration does not directly relate to a text block, make sure
it stays seperate (failure to do this risks confusing the reader). IG seems
to be following this sound basic rule. As to the choice of the art itself,
well that is a highly individual thing; what one person loves, one will hate;
but I would say it achieve the basic goal of grabbing the attention or
breaking up section (these are the true roles of unrelated illustrations).

As I say, I think IG's business practices are highly questionable and quite
possibly illegal; but the actual quality of their products is generally
quite professional. They have had three real clunkers, but that is only three
out of twenty.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2178
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2179



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Explosive Kreef (from Scientific American)
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2175
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Lost in Space, Mr. Bond?
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
BITS Products - non-UK customers!
RE: Active sensors
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Horrible realization
Feedback
Re: Horrible realization

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 10:39:55 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Explosive Kreef (from Scientific American)

In the latest Scientific American, there's an article about using
explosives to tenderize meat (Mirsky, Steve. "Tender Is the Bite"
Scientific American, January 1998, page 34.)

To briefly summarize for our literacy-impaired Sayat members:

A chap named John Long wondered whether the shock wave from an underwater
explosion would tenderize meat. (This was a spin-off from his day job in
nuclear weapons design!)  After much experimenting with C4, he discovered:

Yes, shock waves to tenderize meat, but only work properly for boneless
cuts. A shockwave to a whole side of beef (or presumably, kreef) fails
because the bones alter the characteristics of teh wave and leave some
parts tough while others are pulped.

The shock wave causes tiny tears in the tissue that keeps muscle fibers
orderly, hence the tenderization effect. The fats and oils responsible for
flavour are unaffected. The waves also seem to kill some of teh bacteria
that eventually spoil meat.

The hydrodyne method (sounds safer, doesn't it) could be commercialized by
1999.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:26:54 -0700
From: "Aerron Winsor"<awinsor@insurquote.com>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

Ithklur@aol.com on 12/25/97 11:15:33 AM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Aerron Winsor/Product Development/Provo/InsurQuote)
Subject:  Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]




In a message dated 97-12-24 22:29:25 EST, you write:

Ithklur (holding tight for GURPS Traveller)
*****
Rodger That.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 10:17:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2175

In mail you write:

> Oh yeah, speaking of keeping you alive, has anyone done a design of a ship
> optimised against Meson Guns, consisting of a very large, very thinly
> arnmoured sphere with *lots* of waste space and *very* heavy component
> armour around the actual critical components ? If it's a non-starship, then
> mass, not volume is the issue (volume does not affect acceleration at all,
> when using realistic thrust), and air is very light ...

Vacuum is even *lighter* and doesn't transmit shockwaves.

I'd go for a *very* dispersed (and redundant) structure with an "outer
hull" that's essentially aluminized mylar sheeting. Sure the lasers etc
will punch right through. But until they open some *big* holes, they
won't be able to tell where the critical components *inside* the "hull"
are. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 20:37 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971226104656.0082cc40@pop3.netaccess.co.nz>

Andrew,

> Just what is wrong with the physical product produced by IG? Full of errors?
> Well generally not. Yes Starships and First Survey were utter disasters,
> the basic rulebook had two serious ommissions (but an errata was produced
> in a timely fashion), Fire Fusion and Steel had one serious ommission
> (but again an errata was forthcoming) and Emperors Vehicles had one
> mindboggling error (no TL data). Just how many errors are there in
> Central Supply Catalog, 

None AFAIK

> Aliens Archive, 

Racial physical stats don't match text. No homeworlds listed.

> Emperors Arsenal, 

A few typos.

> Pocket
> Empires, Psionic Institutes, 

None

> Anomolies, 

The Droyne fiasco.

> Naval Architects Handbook, 

No scale given. Several errors/canon bending (minor).

> Imperial
> Squadrons, 

Ship stats incomplete. No combat system. No sensor crew!

> The Long Way Home, Gateway, 

Mangled graphics.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:40:07 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

Phillip McGregor writes:

>>T4 is falling apart under its own bloated weight. TNE for the most part was
>>a quality, tight set of products. The art lagged a bit, and the last two
>>products, one of which was produced with some lame clipart, were subpar,
>>but for the most part, the TNE products were far superior to 95 percent of
>>the T4 products that have been published.
>
>I must say that (shock!horror!) I agree *entirely*. The Physical Product that
>GDW produced was always either top quality (CTrav and MTrav) or not too far off
>(TNE). IG don't have a clue.

   I wouldn't say so much clueless as erradic, the result of a mentality
that advocates the proposition that if you can crank out enough
sourcebooks (good, bad, or ugly), eventually enough of them will be of
adequate quality to keep the fans coming back for more.  Gaia help those
who insist of buying everything to keep their Traveller collection
complete--you're approaching the "I could have put together a killer
'Magic: The Gathering' deck and won back some of the money I've invested
at tournaments" level.

>On the other hand, notice that I haven't once mentioned the *background* of TNE!

   And everyone thanks you for it...

>>With three competing design and mechanics systems, who can blame players
>>from being confused and discouraged with T4. For an RPGer, that's like
>>buying a house and then finding out that the foundation is made out of
>>particle board. At least with TNE you had *one* coherent system.
>
>This is where we have to part company. I think that the TNE background and
>technology was so flawed that I cannot agree.

   You're so blinded by your hate of TNE you've missed the point. 
Whether or not you *liked* the way TNE went about constructing the
universe, it was at least a coherant system (of course it wasn't
perfect, as everyone who remembers the original TNE energy weapons will
recall, but no simulation of "future reality" is).  "T4" as it stands
right now does not have a coherant system.  Anticipation is growing that
"T4.1" will *finally* wrap everything together with a nice bow, which of
course only serves to heighten the expectations for it to (IMHO)
unrealisitic levels.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 16:48:04 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

>Okay once again this image of IG putting out nothing other than crap raises
>it's ugly head. Now I have some very real (read huge) problems with the way
>that IG conducts business; to the extent that I'm seriously considering
>taking legal action against them. But that concerns them delivering their
>products, not the products themselves.
>
>Just what is wrong with the physical product produced by IG? Full of errors?
>Well generally not. Yes Starships and First Survey were utter disasters,
>the basic rulebook had two serious ommissions (but an errata was produced
>in a timely fashion), Fire Fusion and Steel had one serious ommission
>(but again an errata was forthcoming) and Emperors Vehicles had one
>mindboggling error (no TL data). Just how many errors are there in
>Central Supply Catalog, Aliens Archive, Mileau O, Emperors Arsenal, Pocket
>Empires, Psionic Institutes, Anomolies, Naval Architects Handbook, Imperial
>Squadrons, The Long Way Home, Gateway, The Referee's Screen, Journal 25 or
>Journal 26? That's 2 disasters (Starships, FS); 1 very poor (EV); 2 could
>do better (T4 rules, FFS) and 15 good to excellent. Hardly a constant stream
>of crap.

  No, but a constant stream of product *all* of which that could have
been better, whether the problem is formatting, lack of knowledge of the
Traveller universe, poor overall quality, errata, missing information
(those non-errata items that were excluded that should have been
included: incomplete explanation of things or concepts, things that
require clarification that weren't), etc.  OK, no product is ever
perfect (the stuff produced by BITS comes as close as IG will ever get),
but all IG products seem to lack that little extra something intangible
that says that the publisher cares about what goes on the door and
ultimately ends up in your Traveller collection.  I honestly think that
it stems from the fact that those running IG on a day-to-day basis are
not gamers (and especially not RPGers).  They no more understand the
common RPG fan (or the business of selling to them) than I understand
advanced diferential equations.

>Layout problems? I'm a professional graphic artist. My job depends on layout
>and delivering information in a concise and interesting manner. I would say
>that all of IG's products achieve that goal.  The charts grouped at the back
>idea was interesting, it has proved to have more minuses than pluses, but it
>was a worthwhile experiment.

   And what of basic ergonomics?  As a graphic artist, you should be
aware that being forced to flip back and forth constantly in a manual
can be one of the most frustrating things a reader runs up against.  You
should also be aware that the only reason that you include all the
charts and tables in the back of a book is to *simplify* formatting, not
make a product concise or interesting.  Honestly, if you think that
Imperium Games does a good job on layout in that regard, I'd hate to see
the budgets and time constraints you are forced to work under--your
place of work must resemble an ancient galley ship.

>The now infamous typo in FFS, well I have no
>idea how that got through; an utter failure from setting to binding, but it
>is just one out of twenty products. 

   There are typos and basic bad grammar in other sourcebooks as well,
evidence of hastily done layout with no quality control.  The classic
error that GDW ran into with the first printing of MegaTraveller--no
lessons learned here.

>The cover and interior art. I was taught
>that if an illustration does not directly relate to a text block, make sure
>it stays seperate (failure to do this risks confusing the reader). IG seems
>to be following this sound basic rule.

   Evidently you never tried to design a ship using the basic "T4"
manual.  The design process is interupted in at least a couple of places
by illustrations are in no way related to the text, and the color full
page illustrations are particularly bothersome.

>As to the choice of the art itself,
>well that is a highly individual thing; what one person loves, one will hate;
>but I would say it achieve the basic goal of grabbing the attention or
>breaking up section (these are the true roles of unrelated illustrations).

   We agree at least in part here.  I do not care for Mr. Foss' work as
it relates to Marc Miller's Traveller, but I can not fault it in the way
that it is technically executed either.  Good stuff that doesn't
fit--sort of like hanging a Cezanne or Monet in a gallery full of High
Renaissance art.

   With regard to the use of art, in some sourcebooks it has been
adequate, in others it clearly is not--consistent inconsistency being an
IG hallmark, I'm not surprised.

>As I say, I think IG's business practices are highly questionable and quite
>possibly illegal; but the actual quality of their products is generally
>quite professional. They have had three real clunkers, but that is only three
>out of twenty.

   While IG's business practices show inexperience at handling public
relations, and verge on criminal behavior with regard to their treatment
of freelancers (an area where they are actually similar to other RPG
companies--the whole industry could do with an US Justice Department
investigation), it is in the area of layout and design that IG clearly
is *unprofessional*.  I'm left feeling that when they have gotten it
right, it was because somebody else formatted it and they didn't tinker
with it (FF&S was cocked up *after* it arrived at IG), or the layout for
the product was so easily executed that even the personnel they are
using (no doubt working under extreme time pressure) could get it
right.  

   Unquestionably the time and effort that Marc Miller is putting into
"T4.1" will show how such product *should* be executed, provided he
handles layout locally in Illinois.  Maybe he should send it to a local
printer there too....

Regards,

Harold

P.S. I find it interesting that while I'm willing to cut IG perhaps a
few millimeters of slack with regard to their business practices, Andrew
apparently is not, while on the other hand he willing to cut them slack
on product quality while on the other hand I am not for the most part. 
Different priorities?

- --hdh

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:10:18 -0700
From: "Aerron Winsor"<awinsor@insurquote.com>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk on 12/26/97 01:37:00 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Aerron Winsor/Product Development/Provo/InsurQuote)
Subject:  Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]




In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971226104656.0082cc40@pop3.netaccess.co.nz>
Andrew,

> Pocket
> Empires,
***
all the law levels are equal to the government type.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:00:01 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Lost in Space, Mr. Bond?

Saw the new Bond movie Wednesday. It's a Bond movie (shrug).
  One of the trailers was for the Lost in Space movie due next year. The post-
Modern look bothered my friend a bit, but the robot looks and sounds cool
(enthusiastic, even), and the rest looks like it could be a decent movie.

Anyone else seen this?

GC.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:34:43 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

At 08:37 PM 12/26/97 GMT0, you wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971226104656.0082cc40@pop3.netaccess.co.nz>

>Andrew,

>> Just what is wrong with the physical product produced by IG? Full of errors?
>> Well generally not. Yes Starships and First Survey were utter disasters,
>> the basic rulebook had two serious ommissions (but an errata was produced
>> in a timely fashion), Fire Fusion and Steel had one serious ommission
>> (but again an errata was forthcoming) and Emperors Vehicles had one
>> mindboggling error (no TL data). Just how many errors are there in
>> Central Supply Catalog, 

>None AFAIK

Actually there are a few minor ones (check the errata page at IG)

>> Aliens Archive, 

>Racial physical stats don't match text. No homeworlds listed.

I can't find where the stats don't match the text, please point them out.
As to the lack of homeworlds, I see this as a plus, I can dump them where
ever I want.

>> Emperors Arsenal, 

>A few typos.

It's a first edition! The typos are bad, signs of poor proofing, but they are
all corrected at the end of each chapter.

>> Pocket
>> Empires, Psionic Institutes, 

>None

>> Anomolies, 

>The Droyne fiasco.

Good adventure, bad premise. Minor fixing required. Lock or loot is worse.

>> Naval Architects Handbook, 

>No scale given. Several errors/canon bending (minor).

Scale is standard throughout traveller

>> Imperial
>> Squadrons, 

>Ship stats incomplete. No combat system. No sensor crew!

For combat check pages 35 to 40. For sensor crew, I assume you mean in the
standard crew roster (chapter 5); actually a fairly minor error.

>> The Long Way Home, Gateway, 

>Mangled graphics.

One deckplan. More serious are the typos in the UPP, but even these are minor.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 01:41:53 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: BITS Products - non-UK customers!

For those of you in the US and overseas who can't get hold of the BITS books...

You might try Leisure Games in London (VISA, Mastercard etc)

Tel 0181-346-2327
Fax 0181-343-3888
leisuregames@btinternet.com

http://www.btinternet.com/~leisuregames/

They have the following products listed in their current catalogue - 101
cargos, 101 Plots, 101 Rendezvous, 101 Travellers - all at four pounds
fifty pence UK sterling each. Postage to Europe is +20%, Elsewhere +50%.

Naturally, in living in the UK, I haven't ordered from overseas with them,
but they have regularly delivered orders to me within two working days. I'd
recommend contacting them before you order to ensure everything goes
smoothly and to make sure that the products are in.

Happy Christmas

Dom

PS 101 Lifeforms should be out RSN (it was being proofread the fortnight
before Christmas).

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 01:20:19 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: Active sensors

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:

>I can think of several reasons why:

<snip of valid point>

>2) Cost - Transmitters cost money.  Transmitting constantly will eventually
>wear them out.

Surely the worst wear on the system will be due to the initial firing up?
If you are constantly switching it on and off won't that knacker the
systems faster?

>3) Defense - Having a emmission source makes it really easy to solve the
>fire control problem.

But if everyone is lit up, don't you just engage anything running dark
without reason? ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:34:30 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

At 04:48 PM 12/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

>>Layout problems? I'm a professional graphic artist. My job depends on layout
>>and delivering information in a concise and interesting manner. I would say
>>that all of IG's products achieve that goal.  The charts grouped at the back
>>idea was interesting, it has proved to have more minuses than pluses, but it
>>was a worthwhile experiment.

>   And what of basic ergonomics?  As a graphic artist, you should be
>aware that being forced to flip back and forth constantly in a manual
>can be one of the most frustrating things a reader runs up against.  You
>should also be aware that the only reason that you include all the
>charts and tables in the back of a book is to *simplify* formatting, not
>make a product concise or interesting.  Honestly, if you think that
>Imperium Games does a good job on layout in that regard, I'd hate to see
>the budgets and time constraints you are forced to work under--your
>place of work must resemble an ancient galley ship.

Not sure if that's an insult or not, guess I'll play.

Actually it usually resembles a madhouse (I have to produce under the
industry standard impossible deadlines). Yes putting all the charts at the
back is mainly a formatting decision, but I don't know about you, but after
four or five designs I generally only use the tables and charts having
learned how the system works so I don't need the text. IMHO the best format
layout for charts and tables is in a seperate book, the first time I saw
the charts at the back (PE IIRC) I saw it as an attempt to achieve that.
Photocopy the charts and see what I mean.

>>The now infamous typo in FFS, well I have no
>>idea how that got through; an utter failure from setting to binding, but it
>>is just one out of twenty products. 

>   There are typos and basic bad grammar in other sourcebooks as well,
>evidence of hastily done layout with no quality control.  The classic
>error that GDW ran into with the first printing of MegaTraveller--no
>lessons learned here.

Check anything, there are typos and grammer errors in any lengthy first
edition. It goes with the territory. IG does do worse than many, but most are
"invisible" (ie they don't show up in casual reading). Its is evidence of
poor proofing but not of poor layout.

>>The cover and interior art. I was taught
>>that if an illustration does not directly relate to a text block, make sure
>>it stays seperate (failure to do this risks confusing the reader). IG seems
>>to be following this sound basic rule.

>   Evidently you never tried to design a ship using the basic "T4"
>manual.  The design process is interupted in at least a couple of places
>by illustrations are in no way related to the text, and the color full
>page illustrations are particularly bothersome.

To be honest no. I use a text printout of QSDS. As a personal choice I
prefer text without illustrations. Yep that section has too many full page
illustrations, but they are full page. This is much better than the usual
half or quarter page illustrations that seem to be scattered at random through
alot of RPG material. Plus it would seem that IG has learnt at least a little
since then (interor full colour was abandoned with Starships IIRC).

>>As to the choice of the art itself,
>>well that is a highly individual thing; what one person loves, one will hate;
>>but I would say it achieve the basic goal of grabbing the attention or
>>breaking up section (these are the true roles of unrelated illustrations).

>   We agree at least in part here.  I do not care for Mr. Foss' work as
>it relates to Marc Miller's Traveller, but I can not fault it in the way
>that it is technically executed either.  Good stuff that doesn't
>fit--sort of like hanging a Cezanne or Monet in a gallery full of High
>Renaissance art.

To my eye it does fit with Traveller. It is the sytle of art that was common
on the SF books I read when I first started playing Traveller (as an aside
I don't care for the style, my tastes are fairly "minimilist", but the style
itself does attach to Traveller in my mind). If I had to choose cover art
for Traveller, I would go for block colour pics al la the old CT boxed
starter edition and modules (Tarsus and Beltstrike), but that is as I say
a highly personal choice.

>   With regard to the use of art, in some sourcebooks it has been
>adequate, in others it clearly is not--consistent inconsistency being an
>IG hallmark, I'm not surprised.

The use of art has shown a clear evolution. I am annoyed that much in IS was
recycled from other products. But if you look at it, interior art is now
used as a chapter break, screened background logo or descriptive illustration
and has been for since EA if my memory serves me. Sure the screened logos can
get a little irritating (don't put them on every second page). This state has
been true for sometime. I am particularly fond that IG only uses full page
non-descriptive illustrations.

>>As I say, I think IG's business practices are highly questionable and quite
>>possibly illegal; but the actual quality of their products is generally
>>quite professional. They have had three real clunkers, but that is only three
>>out of twenty.

>   While IG's business practices show inexperience at handling public
>relations, and verge on criminal behavior with regard to their treatment
>of freelancers (an area where they are actually similar to other RPG
>companies--the whole industry could do with an US Justice Department
>investigation), it is in the area of layout and design that IG clearly
>is *unprofessional*.  I'm left feeling that when they have gotten it
>right, it was because somebody else formatted it and they didn't tinker
>with it (FF&S was cocked up *after* it arrived at IG), or the layout for
>the product was so easily executed that even the personnel they are
>using (no doubt working under extreme time pressure) could get it
>right.

I have tried to recreate the FFS error by importing the text into pagemaker,
freehand, illustrator, quarkXpress as word, rtf, and plain text and I just
can't do it. That error still leaves me baffled (I suspect a font conversion
problem). When I look at IG's products I am left with a feeling of adequate,
there are things that could be done better (like you I suspect that they
don't have a good graphic designer on staff) but it understandable and
nothing generally leaps out and screams at me.

>   Unquestionably the time and effort that Marc Miller is putting into
>"T4.1" will show how such product *should* be executed, provided he
>handles layout locally in Illinois.  Maybe he should send it to a local
>printer there too....

Other than the T4 rulebook (my copy was badly setoff on the inside cover)
I don't think anyone can fault the physical printing job of IG's printers!
I have yet to see any hickeys, setoff (other than in the T4 rulebook),
misregistration, colour variation etc.

>Regards,

>Harold

>P.S. I find it interesting that while I'm willing to cut IG perhaps a
>few millimeters of slack with regard to their business practices, Andrew
>apparently is not, while on the other hand he willing to cut them slack
>on product quality while on the other hand I am not for the most part. 
>Different priorities?

Layout is easy to get wrong, business is not. Listen to your customers,
acknowledge correspondance, pay your writers, give your writers clear and
understandable guidelines. Just how hard is that? Please note, I am willing
to cut IG slack on layout but not on content.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:04:45 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

> > Pocket
> > Empires,
> ***
> all the law levels are equal to the government type.

To maintain consistency with First Survey. Wouldn't want to break canon... <G>

Suz ducks for cover

 

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:07:08 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Horrible realization

We are all disgraces to all that is Travelleresque and gearful.  Every last
one of us.

Not ONE PERSON posted a CSC design of Santa's sleigh to the list.  Much
less organized a competition.

My humiliation and shame exceed all 100-diameter limits.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:42:07 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Feedback

     I'm in need of some further feedback, if JTAS is revived what would you
like to see in it?

     If Citizens of the Imperium is revived what would you want out of it?

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:58:03 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Horrible realization

At 07:07 PM 12/26/97 +0800, you wrote:
>We are all disgraces to all that is Travelleresque and gearful.  Every last
>one of us.

>Not ONE PERSON posted a CSC design of Santa's sleigh to the list.  Much
>less organized a competition.

>My humiliation and shame exceed all 100-diameter limits.

>Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
>TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
>Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

I was trying, however the physical limitations (minimum requirement of a
top speed of Mach 750 along with a 300,000 metric tonne cargo capacity, all
using only 8 raindeer for motive power) have as yet proved insurmountable.
Plus when one moves into space, you have to add jump 500. Perhaps a working
group is in order.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2179
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 27 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2180



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Lost in Space, Mr. Bond?
RE: Active sensors
T4 Software?
Re: Horrible realization
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2178
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: Piracy
IG and going under...
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2179
Santa's Sleigh
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2179
IG is not going under

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:52:54 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lost in Space, Mr. Bond?

>Saw the new Bond movie Wednesday. It's a Bond movie (shrug).
>  One of the trailers was for the Lost in Space movie due next year. The post-
>Modern look bothered my friend a bit, but the robot looks and sounds cool
>(enthusiastic, even), and the rest looks like it could be a decent movie.

I've not seen the trailers, but I'm an admitted LIS fan :^)  A couple weeks
ago I noticed my favorite Comic and Game shop had LIS cards, so I got the
manager to build me a set.  Some of the more common specialty cards are
movie preview cards.

Be interesting to see what they do with the movie.  It has always been one
of my favorite Sci-Fi TV shows, but I'll be the first to admit that almost
all the episodes were pretty atrocious!  Still the first six or so were
awsome, and I've always loved the ship.

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:31:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: RE: Active sensors

On Sat, 27 Dec 1997, SD Mooney wrote:
> Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:
> >2) Cost - Transmitters cost money.  Transmitting constantly will eventually
> >wear them out.
> 
> Surely the worst wear on the system will be due to the initial firing up?
> If you are constantly switching it on and off won't that knacker the
> systems faster?

Depends... generally leaving something on causes some wear and turning
something on and off causes some wear.  Depending on how bad each of these
are, there's a break point when it's better to leave it on all the time.

> >3) Defense - Having a emmission source makes it really easy to solve the
> >fire control problem.
> 
> But if everyone is lit up, don't you just engage anything running dark
> without reason? ;-)

You can't engage something you don't see...  it would most likely be
easier to hit a broadcasting target so noone would want to broadcast...

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:16:58 -0700
From: Wild Bill <panzer@sisna.com>
Subject: T4 Software?

Anyone seen anygood T4 software for helping with character generation?

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 02:35:29 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Horrible realization

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

>>Not ONE PERSON posted a CSC design of Santa's sleigh to the list.  
>>Much less organized a competition.

>I was trying, however the physical limitations (minimum requirement of
>a top speed of Mach 750 along with a 300,000 metric tonne cargo 
>capacity, all using only 8 raindeer for motive power) have as yet 
>proved insurmountable.  Plus when one moves into space, you have to add
>jump 500. Perhaps a working group is in order.

   I have discovered the cargo capacity issue is easily solved with a
bit of TL 21+ technology.  All it takes is a pocket universe with an
access port built into the sleigh.  This also allows Santa to take along
additional support staff and warehouse facilities.

   As far as performance characteristics are concerned, once again TL
21+ technology comes to the rescue.  There would be no jump drive, as
transport between systems would be handled via psionic transfer drive or
perhaps a series of teleportation gates a la Secret of the Ancients (one
for each inhabited system).  Sublight drive performance required could
be provided by the reindeer provided they were genetically engineered
for this purpose.  Since we already know they can fly, it can safely be
assumed this has already taken place (btw, bad Mexican food would
provide lift but not propulsion).

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:38:21
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2178

- --------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 00:24:47 -0800
>From: "Kevin Bingham" <kbingham@metro.net>
>Subject: re: Sensors
>
>Okay, now to lay to rest a few things about pirates and sensors in my mind,
>and hopefully other's minds too.
>
>The whole pirate and sensor issue often denotes that pirates are practically
>broadcasting that they are pirates by the fact that they don't have their
>transponders active. Would you get near a ship that did not have its
>transponders active? Of course not! So what is a greedy pirate to do? Steal
>a transponder or create a forgery. This would allow the pirates get close
>enough to another ship to attack, threaten, or cajole.
>
>But alas, we forget, when there is money to be had, many other ways will be
>found. So just a few ideas..... <grin><maniacal laugh><heeehehe, haahaahar>
>(oh, okay, more than a few)

OK, it's on again. I'm goanna go through these one by one, but the basic
Piracy Problems remain.

(1) any ship well armed enough to be able to consistently win against
civilian ships, let alone a lighgt escort, is going to attract notice

(2) when a pirate jumps insystem, does he use his "cover" ID, or her "real"
Pirate ID 

(3) every time your target gets a message off, you need a new fake ID.

>
>(Note: for clarity, though it might be redundant, I have capitalized Pirate,
>and called the victims of the Pirate Ship(s) Targets. A Target ship can
>either mean a ship of plundering opportunity or even planned piracy)

How do you know how a "target of opportunity" is armed, or what it is
carrying, or how good it's crew is, before you engage ?

Trust me, plannend targets (preferably with the cooperation of the crew)
are the way to go. But technically, that is Barratry or Skipping, not Piracy.

>
>- -A Pirate ship with a regular transponder, can get close enough to a target
>ship to threaten with superior fire power.

Not if I'm the target's Captain. If someone is bearing down on me, we are
going to Red Alert, and notifying the authorities.

If it's a frontier system, you are getting a warning shot too.

If it's outside the frontier, forget the warning shot.

>- -A Pirate ship can send off a Mayday / Signal G.K. to attract a Target ship
>to rescue, then attack.

What if they send a launch or ships boat, and hang out at range ? Or even
better, what if they too are "ethically challenged" and decide to lase you
while you are a sitting duck, just to be sure. I mean, a cargo full of
maneauver drive and power plant will cover at least six months worth of
payments ...

>- -A Pirate ship might be able to lay-in-wait in "stealth mode" (a ship
with a
>low sensor signature)

Lay in wait where ? Near the planet will make you real obvious to the
Planetary Aithorities, and why in the name of Cleon Zhunatsu will any
trader go further than outside the jump limit ?

>- -Pirates could create limpet missiles or limpet mines that attach to a
ship,
>and then threaten to blow the Target ship up if they don't surrender.

I'm curious. How do you propose to get the limpets onto the target hull
without them noticing ?

>- -A Pirate ship could pose as Imperial inspectors to board and attack.

OK ... I guess you could. It'd get the Imperium real upset at you. You'd
need a suitable ship (I dunno about you, but my Imperial Representitives
dont hang out on 100t Scouts or 200t Far Traders). It could also be
interesting explaining why the Imperial Inspector is carrying such a large
handgun.

>- -Pirates could hide in cargo containers in the cargo hold of the Target
>ship.

Possible, but what if the cheapskate captain doesnt fund Life Support in
the hold, and stacks the boxes in frames so they must be loaded and
unloaded in a specific order ?

>- -The right Pirate ship could out maneuver the Target ship, 1G vs. 2G+ and a
>good computer system (to match and maintain vectors) to approach and clamp
>down and grapple another ship.

Will this take longer than (a) the target ship creating a jump solution or
(b) the local starport's Piracy Patrol (say, 2 Drachen Jaeger fighters or
one White Lighning Class Frigate <pulls 6Gs, plus HePLAR afterburners for
another 3G. NB Famile Spofulam reccomends a safe operating acceleration of
5Gs, as the G-compensation is only rated at 4Gs>) turns up ?

>- -Pirates with a small ship (a powerful fighter) could subdue a Target ship
>and send in a boarding party using a launch. And then if needed dump some
>cargo and stash their small Pirate vessels in a cargo hold and jump out of
>system.

This is essentially requiring a fixed base, to locate the fighter and
launch(s). This gets real dangerous when the target squirts off a signal.

OTOH it is a far more low-capital affair than a 200 dt pirate ship, so it
might happen. Plant a couple of quonoset huts on some moon, drop the
fighter and launches off out of your Far Trader and hope.

>- -A Pirate ship could use jammers so Maydays could not be detected by the
>local System Defense.

Ummmm, the use of the Jammers themselves will, I think, show up like dogs
balls. And how do you jam the ship's Laser Comm from a distance ?

>- -A Pirate ship could use a EMP missiles to knock out the ship. Of course
>they would have to be careful with this one, else the Pirate ship could be
>knocked out too. Though pirates who do this are out for cargo only because
>the EMP would totally waste a ship's electronics.

EMP weapons are fundamentally nuclear arent they ? Coool. I've always
wanted to use one of those Coronation Class Battleships.

>- -If a Pirate ship can knock out a Target's weapons, sensors, and maneuver;
>the Target ship would be a sitting duck (yes, a tall order). Most of these
>things will be found on the surface of a ship (just polish that ship's
>surface), leaving that soft interior ready to plunder. Especially without
>sensors, things get difficult if the Targeted ship cannot see what is
>attacking, no counter-attacking or evading. (Of course, this depends what
>kind of maneuver drives are used, Plates or HEPLAR)

Pirates have to cope with this as well. And civilians find it much easier
to explain battle damage. Goddamn bureaucrats ... who does Imperial Navy
Inteeligence Group Four think they are, forcing all the starports to report
all battle damage repairs ?

>- -Pirates could sabotage a Target ship by sneaking on board and cause
>problems of all sorts. Such as a virus in the computer system that makes a
>ship jump to a secluded location, with pirates laying in wait.

Look, if you get people on board, just hijack the Target.

OK, OK, you will have to explain why the Captain and crew are now
different, and why the payments stop being made on it, and so on, but OK.
It's only paperwork.

>- -Pirates could pose as passengers... (done many times before, I know,
but it
>still has possibilities)

Hijacking has it's own problems. Most of which involve having the passenger
compartment have very very very limited access to essential areas. And, in
an emergency, passengers are advised they have 30 seconds to get into their
cabins, after which the corridors have the air evacuated from them. Oh
yeah, and we start strobing the gravity outside the cabins as well.

>- -Pirates would find that planets orbiting gas giants make perfect plunder
>areas because it takes forever to leave the 100dia limit, thus increasing
>the opportunity to make a move.

True. However, the planet too would know this. Fighters are *cheap*,
especially if you leave off unneccessary stuff like EMM masking. Just give
me 3 gees and a 600 megajoule laser, and a cheap sensor package.

>- -Pirates could lay-in-wait at a common exit or entrance vector. I imagine
>that ships will exit and enter systems within common vectors, since a ship
>needs to match vector with destination.

And attract absolutely no attention, right ? No pesky Planetary Defense
fighters wandering over to check your paperwork ? The Third Imperium doesnt
*have* 15-mile limits or right of innocent passage. They have the right to
stop and search *at will*.

>- -Pirates most likely will have someone at port that can spy and give info
>about leaving ships... where the Target ship is going, what cargo it is
>carrying (and select high value cargoes).  Then a signal can be sent to the
>Pirate ship ready to pounce.

*sigh* Think for a second how useful such an operation would be for an
Enemy Power at war with the Imperium. The various Imperial intelligence
agencies will follow similar logic, right ?

Me, I wouldnt put it past those INI bastards to try and set up a couple of
such networks, pirating carefully chosen targets, just to find the weak
points before it becomes serious. I'm sure Ling Standard would co-operate -
we could kick back the values of ships lost with a very small amount of
padding on a Naval contract.
 
>- -Remember, a Pirate that successfully pirates a heavy hauler with the right
>cargo (spies again) would only need to do so often. High returns mean less
>ships that need to be pirated.

High value cargoes are tend to have crack crews and excellent equipment. At
least when I'm building ships to carry megacredit a displacement ton cargoes.

You need bloody good contacts and reasons to get det laser missiles on
civilian shipping. Nahh. Never happens. The Navy would never allow it.
Chances of them getting into the wrong hands are just too high. It's never
happen. Honest.
 
>- -A Pirate ship could lay-in-wait on a backwater, low tech, low ship traffic
>world. Even better is getting a Targeted ship to go to that world by the
>Pirates commissioning cargo to be taken there.

Yup. That works. Could be difficult pulling it off multiple times though.

>- -Pirates when they can, would of course take the whole ship, and either use
>it for themselves, forge papers for it and sell it, or even have a Chop Shop
>cut it up and sell or use the parts.

True. First catch your pigeon.

>- -Pirates would try to obtain accurate long range weapons to disable Target
>ships at distance, and then move in.

What you are describing is the reasons varuious people have postulated a
series of stepped Weapon Permits for the Third Imperium.

And if you think that the Starport officials are going to go "Oh. Thats a
Famile Spofulam 256 megajoule particle accelerator on that Far Trader.
Coool, see the chromium streaks down the barrel, Jake ? That Hengbar sure
knows his weapons", then I have this bridge to sell you.

>- -Pirates could use asteroid ships (always fun), being disguised as a rock
>often gives surprise advantage upon a Target ship.

How many asteroid freighters have you seen. Seriously. Do the numbers.
Under FFS2 the hull itself is a seriuosly small part of total ship costs.

Now, given the fact that asteroids on intercept courses are Not Common, how
is your target going to react ?

>
>Overall cunning, superior firepower, and surprise will make a Pirate gang
>successful.

Having a secure base with repair and refit capability and a system of
protection against people coming after you and a way of getting rid of
captured cargoes will make you successful.

Amateurs talk tactics. Professionals talk logistics.

And the logistics of piracy are just horrific, particularily in a ruthless
interstellar bureaucracy like the Third Imperium.

Essentially, to make Piracy work, you need a Freeport in a friendly state.
In Traveller terms this means a Type B starport attached to a state that
doesnt mind really, really pissing off it's neighbours. In the Vargr
Extents or the Long Night or the Short Nap, sure. But around a strong,
stable Third Imperium ? No Way In Hell.

Give me an expected traffic level and a budget and I will design a System
Security force that will force the "minimum Pirate configuration" out of
sight.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 03:25:33 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

>>Honestly, if you think that
>>Imperium Games does a good job on layout in that regard, I'd hate to see
>>the budgets and time constraints you are forced to work under--your
>>place of work must resemble an ancient galley ship.
>
>Not sure if that's an insult or not, guess I'll play.

   Actually I was geniunely puzzled by your remarks and wondered where
they were coming from.  Given that you are working in an environment
where people want things yesterday, I understand a little better.  

>Actually it usually resembles a madhouse (I have to produce under the
>industry standard impossible deadlines). Yes putting all the charts at the
>back is mainly a formatting decision, but I don't know about you, but after
>four or five designs I generally only use the tables and charts having
>learned how the system works so I don't need the text. 

   Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  While it is your personal preference,
many people still need to refer to the text during the design process.

>IMHO the best format
>layout for charts and tables is in a seperate book, the first time I saw
>the charts at the back (PE IIRC) I saw it as an attempt to achieve that.
>Photocopy the charts and see what I mean.

   But by including the charts with the text at appropriate places, you
avoid the need to flip back and forth *and* the need for a seperate book
altogether.  To me, while this approach takes a bit more creativity, it
is worth it because the results are easier to use and speed the learning
process.

>>   We agree at least in part here.  I do not care for Mr. Foss' work as
>>it relates to Marc Miller's Traveller, but I can not fault it in the way
>>that it is technically executed either.  Good stuff that doesn't
>>fit--sort of like hanging a Cezanne or Monet in a gallery full of High
>>Renaissance art.
>
>To my eye it does fit with Traveller. It is the sytle of art that was common
>on the SF books I read when I first started playing Traveller (as an aside
>I don't care for the style, my tastes are fairly "minimilist", but the style
>itself does attach to Traveller in my mind).

   I think perhaps it would work much better if the detail of the scenes
presented had something in them that *looked* Traveller.  Particularly
early on when the color art was literally recycled pieces that had been
previously published, there was nothing there that said "this is
Traveller".  In that respect it was too generic--Traveller art always
found someway to work in people, things, symbols (perhaps at times
symbol overkill) that screamed 'Solomani' or 'Imperial' or 'Zhodani' or
'Aslan', etc. to the reader.

>If I had to choose cover art
>for Traveller, I would go for block colour pics al la the old CT boxed
>starter edition and modules (Tarsus and Beltstrike), but that is as I say
>a highly personal choice.

   My personal preference would probably go toward some really high
quality, Traveller related Anime-style pics.  There is some stuff out
there that is truly amazing.

>>P.S. I find it interesting that while I'm willing to cut IG perhaps a
>>few millimeters of slack with regard to their business practices, Andrew
>>apparently is not, while on the other hand he willing to cut them slack
>>on product quality while on the other hand I am not for the most part. 
>>Different priorities?
>
>Layout is easy to get wrong, business is not. Listen to your customers,
>acknowledge correspondance, pay your writers, give your writers clear and
>understandable guidelines. Just how hard is that? Please note, I am willing
>to cut IG slack on layout but not on content.

   You'd be surprised.  Sometimes people try to do the right thing but
can't (circumstances, lack of time, lack of funds, etc.)--there are also
times that they *can* but *won't*, and those are the times that they
deserve to be punished.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 03:32:02 -0700
From: Wild Bill <panzer@sisna.com>
Subject: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

Did I miss something?
Whats with all the messages about IG going under?
Is it true?
Just my luck after getting $87.65 in T4 books

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 06:20:08 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Piracy

I noted that people were shooting down theories regarding how to make
Piracy work.  So, I figured I would look at a few Ideas of my own and see
what happens.

1) who needs a spaceport?  Jump ships do *not* have to jump to a star or
starport right?  why can't someone astrogate to a specified destination in
virgin space, and drop off a ship there.  Fill it up with a cargo of fuel,
spare parts and so forth. As Time goes on, more and more materials can be
broght there and made to work as a type B starport of sorts...

2) who needs to lie in wait to hit another trader?  Land in port with false
ID.  Get a fake cargo, or low value cargo.  Wait around until someone files
a flight plan for a location indicating time of departure and so forth.
Lift a few moments later than the "prey" and then "unmask" your weapons
when you decide you want them.

3) instead of #2, just have some sort of agent involved who can gather the
flight plan in advance, lift in a ship prior to prey lifting, and "laser
com" the real pirate ship with the particulars.  Put a shot across the bow,
and let the ship "squeal" about being attacked.  If you have time, maybe
place a mine ahead of the ship, and let them run into it if they attempt to
flee.  Otherwise, burn the hull and crew if they don't surrender.

 From what I have read about piracy, the thing that makes it work, if you
will, is the fact that merchants don't want to be sunk or worse.  Develope
a reputation for killing wayward merchants who fight or run, and be lenient
with merchants that co-operate.  If needed, strafe the homeworld of
merchant captains who don't surreneder (one false move, and your planet of
registry gets a midnight raid wise guy!).

  All in all, while not easy, Piracy doesn't have to be a matter of
hijacking, nor does it have to be a matter of waiting for a cargo of
opportunity.

  Simple solutions to piracy?  Convoy.  Multiple ships band together and
leave within minutes of each other.  The planetary navy escorts them to the
jump limits, and one by one, they jump.  Also, have "lanes" of exit and
entrance for ships that jump.  This way, the Government doesn't have to
patrol everywhere, just the "lanes".  Of course, this makes it easier for
pirates to spot the ships, but then again, with an escort awaiting the
ships...

        Hal

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 07:03:22 EST
From: FKiesche <FKiesche@aol.com>
Subject: IG and going under...

Greetings:

IG maybe going under. Maybe not. But what is true, no matter what version of
management is in there, no matter what their stated policies...

THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE SUCKS!

I am **still** trying to order a copy of Emperor's Vehicles. Actually, I'm
still trying to get my pre-order! I am **still** trying to get my pre-order
copy of Naval Architect!

I am **still** trying to get a resolution on "Citizens of the Imperium" (if
folks received a letter on this, similar to the "Journal Going Under" letter,
please let me know.

E-mail to "sales@imperiumgames.com" is ignored. Mail sent to Tim Brown is
ignored. I'd call, but I've already established that they don't return phone
calls (in fact the only time they ever called me was to try and sell me a
mousepad and some t-shirts...both of which I already had!).

Heck, anything out since "Imperial Squadrons". I'm still trying to figure out
how I got that one and not the two earlier pre-orders!

Sign me confused and disgusted!

Fred Kiesche
(FKiesche@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 01:08:13 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

At 03:32 AM 12/27/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Did I miss something?
>Whats with all the messages about IG going under?
>Is it true?
>Just my luck after getting $87.65 in T4 books

They are a disussion as to the quality of IG's work. To the best of my
knowledge there is no indication that IG is going under; nor has anyone
presented any. Basically these are wild rumours and should be regarded
as such.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:00:27 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2179

On Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:13:14 -0500, you wrote:

>>> The Long Way Home, Gateway, 
>
>>Mangled graphics.
>
>One deckplan. More serious are the typos in the UPP, but even these are minor.

No, more than that ... this was discussed quite in depth when it was first
released. The "Race for the Flag" (or whatever its called) Scenario map has no
hex grid, rendering it useless. Many of the other maps have partially invisible
square grids, rendering them marginally useful. The premise of the Plague
scenario is ridiculous and anti-canon. And more.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:03:41 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Santa's Sleigh

On Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:13:14 -0500, you wrote:

>Subject: Horrible realization
>
>We are all disgraces to all that is Travelleresque and gearful.  Every last
>one of us.
>
>Not ONE PERSON posted a CSC design of Santa's sleigh to the list.  Much
>less organized a competition.
>
>My humiliation and shame exceed all 100-diameter limits.

The reason is obvious ... IG left out the Reindeer Propulsion Table in QSDS! How
much faster does a red nosed reindeer pull the sleigh than a standard one? You
see, without basic information like that you simply can't do a design ... yet
*another* example of IG's incompetence?

;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:55:33 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2179

On Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:13:14 -0500, you wrote:

>>On the other hand, notice that I haven't once mentioned the *background* of TNE!
>
>   And everyone thanks you for it...
>
>>>With three competing design and mechanics systems, who can blame players
>>>from being confused and discouraged with T4. For an RPGer, that's like
>>>buying a house and then finding out that the foundation is made out of
>>>particle board. At least with TNE you had *one* coherent system.
>>
>>This is where we have to part company. I think that the TNE background and
>>technology was so flawed that I cannot agree.
>
>   You're so blinded by your hate of TNE you've missed the point. 
>Whether or not you *liked* the way TNE went about constructing the
>universe, it was at least a coherant system (of course it wasn't
>perfect, as everyone who remembers the original TNE energy weapons will
>recall, but no simulation of "future reality" is).  "T4" as it stands
>right now does not have a coherant system.  Anticipation is growing that
>"T4.1" will *finally* wrap everything together with a nice bow, which of
>course only serves to heighten the expectations for it to (IMHO)
>unrealisitic levels.

No, I think that you are missing the point. I simply said that I cannot agree
that it was a coherent system. It bent canon way out of shape without once
considering the consequences long, or even short, term, it turned (at the end)
TNE into "just a wargame", it had logical flaws all through it. So it was
*consistently* flawed ... but still flawed. And I think we *can* agree that
we'll have to disagree on this one.

Phil

- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 06:13:12 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: IG is not going under

> Did I miss something?
> Whats with all the messages about IG going under?
> Is it true?
> Just my luck after getting $87.65 in T4 books

No!  IG is not going under. The list has merely been taking certain 
business moves by IG and postulating about the possible significance 
these moves might mean.

My own .02Cr: 

1) There is no reason not to dump Citizens since since they weren't 
doing anything with it anyway. 

2) As for JTAS, I like JTAS and I'd like to see it be a going 
concern. My question is this: where do you get advertising for the 
magazine? Advertising is the only way to make a JTAS a cost 
effective product. They have no cross products to pay for advertising 
space, so where do they go? competitor's products? Do you want to see 
Babylon 5 and Star Wars ads all through the magazine? Gurps would be 
ok, I guess, since they are going to come out with Traveller 
products, but that only goes so far, doesn't it?  So, you're left 
with only a couple of choices. Either go for really cheap production 
values so that subscription fees at least come close to covering 
costs, or dump the product. The first would most likely engender a 
storm of complaints since the readers would most likely expect the 
same sort of production values they get with comparable subscriptions 
that do have good advertising revenues. The latter is what happened.

I wish the best of luck to Marc and those he is working with in 
trying to revive JTAS. I'd be a subscriber/reader in whatever form it 
might take.

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2180
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 28 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2181



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Horrible realization
Re(2): Horrible realization
Making a Business Complaint in California
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: Feedback
Re: IG is not going under
Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
Re: Making a Business Complaint in California
Re: IG and going under...
Re: Making a Business Complaint in California
Re: Santa's Sleigh
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180
Re: Horrible realization
Re: IG is not going under
[none]
[none]
Re: Explosive Kreef (from Scientific American)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 97 08:35:56 PST
From: "Marcus & Lurann Teter" <galileo@montana.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Horrible realization

 As far as performance characteristics are concerned, once again TL
> 21+ technology comes to the rescue.  There would be no jump drive, as
> transport between systems would be handled via psionic transfer drive or
> perhaps a series of teleportation gates a la Secret of the Ancients (one
> for each inhabited system).  Sublight drive performance required could
> be provided by the reindeer provided they were genetically engineered
> for this purpose.  Since we already know they can fly, it can safely be
> assumed this has already taken place (btw, bad Mexican food would
> provide lift but not propulsion).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Harold
> 

Another worse realization:

	Perhaps Santa is Grandfather.  :)

	But what would the purpose be in Bribing our kids?

Later,
Marcus A. Teter

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:13:11 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re(2): Horrible realization

In anticipation of the inevitable requests...

NO, I WILL NOT MODIFY INFINI-V/CSC BY ADDING THE TL21 TECHNOLOGY TO DESOGN
SANTA'S SLEIGH!!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:23:39 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Making a Business Complaint in California

Could some kind soul please post the postal address of the California
Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (of whatever the California
equivalent is)?  I want to be ready to escalate my complaints if Imperium
Games doesn't explain why they haven't shipped me the products I've paid
for.

I suspect Fred and Andrew would also be interested.  FYI, I'm giving them
until the end of next week to at least phone me with an expanation. 
Otherwise the official complaint gets made (for whatever good it does). 
I'll be notifying VISA on Monday that I will be disputing the charges.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 97 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

In-Reply-To: <199712270213.TAA11812@pop.goodnet.com>

Suzette,

> > > Pocket
> > > Empires,
> > ***
> > all the law levels are equal to the government type.
>
> To maintain consistency with First Survey. Wouldn't want to break canon... <G>

Well, yeah. That's a no-win situation - either you use the official 
(broken) stats, and be consistent, or make up your own, and get flamed 
for *that*.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 97 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Feedback

In-Reply-To: <5091319e.34a47911@aol.com>

Kagehira,

> I'm in need of some further feedback, if JTAS is revived what would you
> like to see in it?

Basically the stuff that *was* in it (and Challange, and the original JTAS): 
fiction, new equipment/vehicles, scenarios, planet write-ups, errata...but 
for god's sake make sure the editor knows Traveller this time (no more 
instant FTL communication thank you very much).

> If Citizens of the Imperium is revived what would you want out of it?

What we were promised - discount, magazine, also .maybe the Imperial 
title/land grant idea that was bounced around, or the chance to playtest 
future products.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:28:51 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: IG is not going under

Suzette C. Dollar writes:

>> Did I miss something?
>> Whats with all the messages about IG going under?
>> Is it true?
>> Just my luck after getting $87.65 in T4 books
>
>No!  IG is not going under. The list has merely been taking certain 
>business moves by IG and postulating about the possible significance 
>these moves might mean.

   Sorry for the "me too", but as a participant in the business
practices discussion, I would like to restate categorically that
Imperium Games is not in any financial difficulties, that is to say that
there is no evidence at this time of any problems.

   Your $87.65 investment is safe until the end of the year, you have my
personal word on it.

   (here's hoping he doesn't realize there are only four days left in
the year...dohh)

   Seriously, with a new release of the game coming out soon, one that
will hopefully fix at least some of the problems, IG would have to be
loopy to shut down--so they are not.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 97 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]

In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971227013443.00830e48@pop3.netaccess.co.nz>

Andrew,

> >> Aliens Archive, 
>  
> >Racial physical stats don't match text. No homeworlds listed.
>  
> I can't find where the stats don't match the text, please point them out.

I don't have the book handy, but some races are described as being n times 
stronger than humans, or having greater endurance, or whatever, but the stats are 
still given as being 2d6, same as humans.

> As to the lack of homeworlds, I see this as a plus, I can dump them where
> ever I want.

If I was running a game of Twilight:2000, I might decide to move Poland to the 
West of France. It's my campaign, I can do whatever I like, and to hell with 
confusing new players or compatibility with any future sourcebooks or adventures 
I might buy.

It's the old 'blank maps' argument again: if you nail down locations for things, 
anybody who wants to move them can, and everbody else can just leave them where 
they're 'supposed' to be. But if you don't say where they are, you force 
*everybody* to put them somewhere *different*, so any future books that give a 
location will annoy just about everybody.

> >> Anomolies, 
>  
> >The Droyne fiasco.
>  
> Good adventure, bad premise. Minor fixing required. Lock or loot is worse.

I wouldn't call wiping out an entire Major Race minor! (Yes, you and I know what 
was really meant, but somebody who's new to Traveller is going to be seriously 
confused next time a Droyne pops up). And yes, this isn't the only problem with 
the book.

> >> Naval Architects Handbook, 
>  
> >No scale given. Several errors/canon bending (minor).
>  
> Scale is standard throughout traveller

CT & MT used 1.5m/square. TNE used 2m. I don't think T4 has ever specified a 
standard. I've *assumed* NAM uses 1.5m, but it doesn't say so (or even if all 
plans use the *same* scale).

> >> The Long Way Home, Gateway, 
>  
> >Mangled graphics.
>  
> One deckplan.

Which is *still* mangled in Gateway. There are others as well.

> More serious are the typos in the UPP, but even these are minor.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:30:37 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Making a Business Complaint in California

In a message dated 97-12-27 12:48:49 EST, you write:

<< Could some kind soul please post the postal address of the California
 Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (of whatever the California
 equivalent is)?  I want to be ready to escalate my complaints if Imperium
 Games doesn't explain why they haven't shipped me the products I've paid
 for.
 
 I suspect Fred and Andrew would also be interested.  FYI, I'm giving them
 until the end of next week to at least phone me with an expanation. 
 Otherwise the official complaint gets made (for whatever good it does). 
 I'll be notifying VISA on Monday that I will be disputing the charges. >>

I'll look that up for you and send it to you privately.  In the meantime, I
don't suggest waiting for anything.  Get on the phone/fax machine/what-have-
you, and start screaming LAWYER at IG.  They KNOW what they are doing is wrong
and illegal, and that is how I got them to give me a refund when they charged
me for nonexistant products.  IG has turned into the Used Car Salesmen of
RPGs.

Ithklur ("Oh please oh please hurry up Steve Jackson . . .")

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 97 20:36 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: IG and going under...

In-Reply-To: <31e93a6f.34a4ee8d@aol.com>

FKiesche,

> I am **still** trying to order a copy of Emperor's Vehicles. Actually, I'm

Believe me, you're better off without it.

> I am **still** trying to get a resolution on "Citizens of the Imperium" (if
> folks received a letter on this, similar to the "Journal Going Under" letter,
> please let me know.

I got a CotI letter, but not a JTAS one.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 11:52:27 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Making a Business Complaint in California

At 10:23 AM 12/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Could some kind soul please post the postal address of the California
>Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (of whatever the California
>equivalent is)?  I want to be ready to escalate my complaints if Imperium
>Games doesn't explain why they haven't shipped me the products I've paid
>for.

>I suspect Fred and Andrew would also be interested.  FYI, I'm giving them
>until the end of next week to at least phone me with an expanation. 
>Otherwise the official complaint gets made (for whatever good it does). 
>I'll be notifying VISA on Monday that I will be disputing the charges.

Yep, I would be very interested. I'm going away on holiday on Tuesday for
a week; but then if IG haven't at least bothered to respond to my email and
faxes I will start calling in the heavy stuff. One point is that in NZ
law what IG is doing is classified as fraud.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:59:19 -0500
From: dukedrake@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh

> I have discovered the cargo capacity issue is easily solved with a
> bit of TL 21+ technology.  All it takes is a pocket universe with an
> access port built into the sleigh.  This also allows Santa to take along
> additional support staff and warehouse facilities.

I'd like to propose that Santa is actually Grandfather... this solves a lot of
questions regarding both figures. The Ancients were apparantly at the top of the
"naughty list", and were not actually given lumps of coal, but the coal symbolized
both the return to early industrial technology (as coal is a fuel source of that TL)
as well as of the charred near-c rocks that rained down upon the Ancients'
civilizations. Those races which were "good" were rewarded with "new toys" in the
sense of further technological and evolutionary advancement.

You can bet Strephon left milk and cookies for Grandfather on at least one occasion.
:)

>    As far as performance characteristics are concerned, once again TL
> 21+ technology comes to the rescue
> ...
> Sublight drive performance required could
> be provided by the reindeer provided they were genetically engineered
> for this purpose.  Since we already know they can fly, it can safely be
> assumed this has already taken place (btw, bad Mexican food would
> provide lift but not propulsion).

For a dirigible, perhaps not, but if we presume that the gengineered reindeer are a
more efficient system than that, it's more feasable. As a fuel source, Mexican food
can certainly generate propulsion and power. The carbohydrates store an immense amount
of energy alone, to say nothing of the gasses released in digestion. The spices
involved are frequently experienced too much to be fully understood, although in
sufficient concentrations, they may be capable of generating a thermo-chemical
reaction along with the gasses to create organic HEPlaR drives. ;)

Lift is more a function of the external surface... someone ought to come up with a
Streamlined Reindeer Airframe and relevant construction data.

> How
> much faster does a red nosed reindeer pull the sleigh than a standard one?

Isn't the "red nose" a form of active sensor and avionics system? Hmm. Perhaps the
other reindeer are also representative of specific ship's sub-systems (with their
names being mnemonics for function, perhaps).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 08:52:52
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180

>From: hal@buffnet.net
>Subject: Re: Piracy
>
>I noted that people were shooting down theories regarding how to make
>Piracy work.  So, I figured I would look at a few Ideas of my own and see
>what happens.
>
>1) who needs a spaceport?  Jump ships do *not* have to jump to a star or
>starport right?  why can't someone astrogate to a specified destination in
>virgin space, and drop off a ship there.  Fill it up with a cargo of fuel,
>spare parts and so forth. As Time goes on, more and more materials can be
>broght there and made to work as a type B starport of sorts...

This is possible. Doing it while attracting no notice (for eg by data
matching on filed flight plans for the subsector) will be more difficult.

How many ships a month would you need to take to pay for the operation ?

Would this attract attention ?

I also *strongly* disagree with such a makeshift facility being capable of
more than just refueling. No annual maintainence !

>
>2) who needs to lie in wait to hit another trader?  Land in port with false
>ID.  Get a fake cargo, or low value cargo.  Wait around until someone files
>a flight plan for a location indicating time of departure and so forth.
>Lift a few moments later than the "prey" and then "unmask" your weapons
>when you decide you want them.

If your Target captain is that stupid, he deserves a career change.

Could also be embarressing if you get cross-checked and your records dont
match ("I'm sorry Sir, according to our most recent records, that
transponder ID is registered to a flying bathtub on Vland.").

Also, how can you tell when a flight plan got filed ? Also, wouldnt flight
plans involve the route to outaside the jump limit, and wouldnt the
Planetary Authorities get ahhh interested if you deviated from your lodged
course ?

Of course, truly twisted IN operatives could set up a ring selling fake
transponder IDs, and then red-card all the numbers out to all starports six
months later, and have anybody using them arrested on sight and their ships
seized, then interrogate them at leisure for any other information they may
have.

>
>3) instead of #2, just have some sort of agent involved who can gather the
>flight plan in advance, lift in a ship prior to prey lifting, and "laser
>com" the real pirate ship with the particulars.  Put a shot across the bow,
>and let the ship "squeal" about being attacked.  If you have time, maybe
>place a mine ahead of the ship, and let them run into it if they attempt to
>flee.  Otherwise, burn the hull and crew if they don't surrender.

How exactly does your man on the inside get at the comms equipment, which
is on the bridge, or to the outer hull, from where he could send a signal
back via the 100 000km Laser Comm he had in his backpack ?

>
> From what I have read about piracy, the thing that makes it work, if you
>will, is the fact that merchants don't want to be sunk or worse.  Develope
>a reputation for killing wayward merchants who fight or run, and be lenient
>with merchants that co-operate.  If needed, strafe the homeworld of
>merchant captains who don't surreneder (one false move, and your planet of
>registry gets a midnight raid wise guy!).

No, the thing that makes it work is having a safe harbour.

BTW, think for a second on what the IN would do if you actually *tried*
that really really dumbshit stunt you mentioned last. I think we are, at
minimum, looking at a Sector Alert, and every damn cruiser available
scouring the space lanes.

Even making such a threat will probably get you shot by a crewmember.

>
>  All in all, while not easy, Piracy doesn't have to be a matter of
>hijacking, nor does it have to be a matter of waiting for a cargo of
>opportunity.

But it always has to be a matter of profit and loss. 

>
>  Simple solutions to piracy?  Convoy.  Multiple ships band together and
>leave within minutes of each other.  The planetary navy escorts them to the
>jump limits, and one by one, they jump.  Also, have "lanes" of exit and
>entrance for ships that jump.  This way, the Government doesn't have to
>patrol everywhere, just the "lanes".  Of course, this makes it easier for
>pirates to spot the ships, but then again, with an escort awaiting the
>ships...

An exceptionally cheap, effictive and simple countermeasure, adopted
throughout history.

Personally, I think Vilani worlds will always be doing this, even when it
is a thousand years or more since the Long Night.

I'll be posting a SDB optimised for convoy duties later today. It mounts a
600 megajoule laser, and costs an unbelievably small amount. As a
non-starship, it can be maintained at a class C starport.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:11:18 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Horrible realization

At 08:35 AM 12/27/97 PST, you wrote:

>Another worse realization:
>
>	Perhaps Santa is Grandfather.  :)
>
>	But what would the purpose be in Bribing our kids?

Only the Templars know...


- --

+--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net x
x   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+
|          Embrace Fascism.          x
x       The uniforms look cool       |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:18:45 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: IG is not going under

At 06:13 AM 12/27/97 +0000, you wrote:

>1) There is no reason not to dump Citizens since since they weren't 
>doing anything with it anyway. 

Agreed, but the whole situation was handled in a nightmarish manner.  Great
promises, nothing there for months, then a brusque brush off.

>2) As for JTAS, I like JTAS and I'd like to see it be a going 
>concern. My question is this: where do you get advertising for the 
>magazine? 

BITS could take up some small amount of space.. hell, I was planning on
spending my own money to buy an ad for ACQ when it's finished.  Ads for
GURPS would be good.  I have no problem with advertisements from competing
games, since if you are buying a Traveller magazine, you obviously already
have some interest in Traveller.  I buy many games that I never play simply
to mine for material.

>I wish the best of luck to Marc and those he is working with in 
>trying to revive JTAS. I'd be a subscriber/reader in whatever form it 
>might take.

What if you were offered the editorship?  Seriously.  Do you think that you
could do a quarterly magazine?
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|-------------------------------------|
| "It is not the big armies that win  |
|  battles, it is the good ones"      |
|             -Maurice de Saxe        |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:34:17 -0500 (EST)
From: tanya <tgallus@interlog.com>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe tgallus@interlog.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:40:52 -0500 (EST)
From: tanya <tgallus@interlog.com>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe tgallus@interlog.com
 

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 1997 23:59:44 -0500
From: edgar@beckett.rmaonline.net (Mr. Whipple)
Subject: Re: Explosive Kreef (from Scientific American)

Won't *that* be fun.

"Honey, pass the meat tenderizer, would you? I can't get this safe
open."

- --
Edgar Whipple       Have clue, will travel.
ewhipple@rma.edu    "Budgies?! We doan need no stinkin *budgies*!!"

        Microsoft is not where I want to go today.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:25:27 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180

>This is possible. Doing it while attracting no notice (for eg by data
>matching on filed flight plans for the subsector) will be more difficult.

Who needs flight plans?  The pirates won't be using filed plans to get to
their location, and any body can file a false flight plan, follow it, but
do only a .3 parsec jump instead of a full 1 parsec jump.

>
>How many ships a month would you need to take to pay for the operation ?

Hmmm, let's see.  1 ship worth 80 Megacredits (just pulling numbers out of
thin air), versus costs of maybe 200,000 per month... seems like it could
work well enough.  That isn't even mentioning the fact you get the cargo
for your own use, or perhaps to sell at a discounted value...


>Would this attract attention ?

Piracy would attract attention, no doubt about it.  Question is, if it is
successful, what can one do about it?  Start investigating - but that was
the whole point of a "protected" port concept, or a "hidden base" concept -
you have to find the pirates to persecute them.


>I also *strongly* disagree with such a makeshift facility being capable of
>more than just refueling. No annual maintainence !

Who needs maintenance?  Just dump the ship getting old, and use the one you
have just taken over.  Mount the weapons on it, and move on...  Kinda like
what the Pirates of Old Terra used to do.  If you got a better ship than
your own, take it, and dump your own.

>
>>
>>2) who needs to lie in wait to hit another trader?  Land in port with false
>>ID.  Get a fake cargo, or low value cargo.  Wait around until someone files
>>a flight plan for a location indicating time of departure and so forth.
>>Lift a few moments later than the "prey" and then "unmask" your weapons
>>when you decide you want them.
>
>If your Target captain is that stupid, he deserves a career change.

Remember the convoy concept mentioned earlier?  Hmmm...

>
>Could also be embarressing if you get cross-checked and your records dont
>match ("I'm sorry Sir, according to our most recent records, that
>transponder ID is registered to a flying bathtub on Vland.").

That is why you need a good forger.  *NOTHING* is without risk...

>
>Also, how can you tell when a flight plan got filed ? Also, wouldnt flight
>plans involve the route to outaside the jump limit, and wouldnt the
>Planetary Authorities get ahhh interested if you deviated from your lodged
>course ?

If you deviated from your course, it is likely you are already in pursuit
of your prey.  What is the reaction time of the planetary forces?  Unless
they keep a ship hot and ready to launch, or have a ship on patrol - you
already have a major head start.  And a pirate should not be launching a
piracy attempt under circumstances that will lead to capture of his own ship.

>
>Of course, truly twisted IN operatives could set up a ring selling fake
>transponder IDs, and then red-card all the numbers out to all starports six
>months later, and have anybody using them arrested on sight and their ships
>seized, then interrogate them at leisure for any other information they may
>have.


So the pirates use their own fake codes.  Also, how difficult would it be
to set up a one time legit code via a "newly" purchased ship?  Use once,
and throw away...

>>
>>3) instead of #2, just have some sort of agent involved who can gather the
>>flight plan in advance, lift in a ship prior to prey lifting, and "laser
>>com" the real pirate ship with the particulars.  Put a shot across the bow,
>>and let the ship "squeal" about being attacked.  If you have time, maybe
>>place a mine ahead of the ship, and let them run into it if they attempt to
>>flee.  Otherwise, burn the hull and crew if they don't surrender.
>
>How exactly does your man on the inside get at the comms equipment, which
>is on the bridge, or to the outer hull, from where he could send a signal
>back via the 100 000km Laser Comm he had in his backpack ?

I will attempt to ignore the sarcasm here and answer direct:  Mike Johnson,
commo tech at Ruie Space control, has been watching for a juicy cargo.  He
has a private tap into the database of ship flight plans.  Discovering that
a ship is about to leave for some planet within the next 24 hours, he then
sends word to a buddy of his, who then uses a tight beam laser comm unit to
contact a pirate ship with the particulars of the pending departure.  No
need for a 100,000 km laser commo unit - backpack style...

>
>>
>> From what I have read about piracy, the thing that makes it work, if you
>>will, is the fact that merchants don't want to be sunk or worse.  Develope
>>a reputation for killing wayward merchants who fight or run, and be lenient
>>with merchants that co-operate.  If needed, strafe the homeworld of
>>merchant captains who don't surreneder (one false move, and your planet of
>>registry gets a midnight raid wise guy!).
>
>No, the thing that makes it work is having a safe harbour.

Two things make piracy work.  The first is having the prey give in without
a fight.  While it may work out that the prey ship is destroyed, it doesn't
help if the prey (assuming it is armed) manages to not only deprive you of
income via their ship, but also manages to hurt you severely enough that a
patrol ship can capture you later.  The second thing, as you mention, is
the need to be able to unload your cargo in a freeport.



>BTW, think for a second on what the IN would do if you actually *tried*
>that really really dumbshit stunt you mentioned last. I think we are, at
>minimum, looking at a Sector Alert, and every damn cruiser available
>scouring the space lanes.

YES!  Exactly!  Point is, if you pulled such a stunt, it will be remembered
for a LONG LONG time, as well as make you a very sought after man.  In real
life, this would amount to the same as the Pirate raid on Panama, or
Tortuga, etc...

>
>Even making such a threat will probably get you shot by a crewmember.

A crew that willingly participates in such an atrocity, is likely to care
less if you make such a threat.  A crew memember who is that squeamish is
likely to lose his own life.  Never underestimate the fear of
self-preservation.  In any case, we are dealing with "PIRATES", not law
abiding citizens.


>>  All in all, while not easy, Piracy doesn't have to be a matter of
>>hijacking, nor does it have to be a matter of waiting for a cargo of
>>opportunity.
>
>But it always has to be a matter of profit and loss. 

Taking one ship alone, is a profit situation - assuming there is no damage.
 Even if you only got 1/10th the value of an 80 million credit ship, you
still make a profit of 8 million credits.

>>  Simple solutions to piracy?  Convoy.  Multiple ships band together and
>>leave within minutes of each other.  The planetary navy escorts them to the
>>jump limits, and one by one, they jump.  Also, have "lanes" of exit and
>>entrance for ships that jump.  This way, the Government doesn't have to
>>patrol everywhere, just the "lanes".  Of course, this makes it easier for
>>pirates to spot the ships, but then again, with an escort awaiting the
>>ships...
>
>An exceptionally cheap, effictive and simple countermeasure, adopted
>throughout history.
>
>Personally, I think Vilani worlds will always be doing this, even when it
>is a thousand years or more since the Long Night.
>
>I'll be posting a SDB optimised for convoy duties later today. It mounts a
>600 megajoule laser, and costs an unbelievably small amount. As a
>non-starship, it can be maintained at a class C starport.

Here is a challange for you Ian.  Design your ships, figure out your costs
for running such a set up.  Then compare it with the GPP (Gross Planetary
Product) of the area you are involved with.  Factor in the training costs.
Factor in the wear and tear on the equipment.  Then, design the operations
of the space port authority.  Somewhere, I would be willing to bet you, the
following will occur:

1) you will leave a loop hole where a pirate could concievably wiggle through
2) make it so damned expensive, that commerce suffers, or the government
suffers


Scenario:

Convoy duty has 3 SDB escorting 8 ships about to reach the 50 planetary
diameter limit.  Ships recieve a mayday from a ship that Jumps in, claiming
a major emergency (Gasp - under attack by a pirate perhaps?).  Commander,
by law, must send out a ship.    Now we have two ships on escort duty.
Prior intelligence by the pirates at the starport, have a preplotted convoy
path.  Mines lie in wait - not in the path of the convoy, but to a tangent.
 Upon the convoy reaching the proper location.  A single pirate launches an
attack, attempting to draw off another ship.  Assuming that one ship is
drawn off in pursuit, that is when it runs into a minefield.  Kinda like
digging a pit trap and then waving a red flag just when the bull is on the
other side of the trap with the trap between you and the bull...

  In any case, as a final indignity, one or even two ships in the convoy,
are actually ringers, and upon discovering that there is only one escort -
fire upon that one escort.  One really nasty variable, might be to have a
fighter lying in wait...

  In other words, wolf pack tactics were designed to deal with convoy
escorts.  For any man patient enough to deal with the planning required,
and with the resources required - could conceivably make a pirate raid work.

  I am not saying that the life of a pirate would be easy, nor without
dangers.  There are counters to just about any defense that could be
thought up.  Planet based sensors could be destroyed prior to a raid.  HARM
missiles could be used.  A datanet could be compromised by hackers.  There
seems to be an awful lot of things that could happen to derail an attempt
to come to the rescue of a pirate attacked ship.

  In short, while the piracy has to be well thought out, and perhaps even a
bit lucky, the fact of the matter is, it isn't a cut and dried operation
either.

Question:  Suppose a ship has a commo and radar jammer on.  Ship hits prey.
 Prey ship is taken, and ship is launched on a balastic path at tangent to
the original path.  Pirate ship with Jammer then goes inert, and also
launches on balastic trajectory.  No transponders working, no active
powerplant emmisions, crews are in vacc suits.  Now what?

  Well, that is about all for now.

    Hal out.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2181
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 28 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2182



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Journal and Citizens
Re: IG is not going under
Re: IG is not going under
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180
Re: <Poof!>?
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: IG is not going under
Re: Piracy
Air-superiority sleds...
Re: Santa's Sleigh
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2181

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 97 02:20:54 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Journal and Citizens

On 12/27/97 at 07:03 AM,  FKiesche <FKiesche@aol.com> said:

>I am **still** trying to get a resolution on "Citizens of the Imperium"
>(if folks received a letter on this, similar to the "Journal Going Under"
>letter, please let me know.

I got a letter canceling the Citizens of the Imperium program a couple of
days after the one canceling the Journal. It had the same offer as the one
for the Journal, pro-rated refund or next book published. I'm wondering if
I'll get 2 copies of the next book, or one each of the next two...;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:30:16 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: IG is not going under

>Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:28:51 -0500
>From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
>Subject: Re: IG is not going under

>   Your $87.65 investment is safe until the end of the year, you have my
>personal word on it.
>
>   (here's hoping he doesn't realize there are only four days left in
>the year...dohh)
>
>   Seriously, with a new release of the game coming out soon, one that
>will hopefully fix at least some of the problems, IG would have to be
>loopy to shut down--so they are not.

Oh, is this the how many times delayed product that was supposed to be released
for (IIRC) GENCON, or was it ORIGINS? Then for "pre-christmas" and now at some
unspecified future date? I wouldn't take all these delays as *necessarily*
meaning that someone at IG wants to a good job this time -- after all, their
track record would not seem to wholeheartedly support such a proposition, would
it now? It it is at least possible that the delays are caused by lack of money
(or the staff and time that lack of money represents().

No, there is no evidence to support this -- just like there's no evidence to
support the quaint idea that IG has suddenly got a clue from somewhere (probably
black market, if they have).

Or, to put it another way, believe the existence of T4.1 only when you have it
in your hot little hands (and, yes, I ordered one as soon as it was announced
many many moons ago ... tho I suspect that they will lose the order, they seem
to stuff everything else up) ... at the rate they are going, I will be surprised
(pleasantly) if it ever gets done.

Sour Grapes? No, burnt once too often realism!

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 06:20:48 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: IG is not going under

> What if you were offered the editorship?  Seriously.  Do you think that you
> could do a quarterly magazine?

This would depend on several things, Doug, and I'm not comfortable 
with getting into it on the list at large. I'll leave at I would at 
least entertain the idea.

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 04:09:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180

In mail you write:

>>From: hal@buffnet.net
>>Subject: Re: Piracy
>>
>>I noted that people were shooting down theories regarding how to make
>>Piracy work.  So, I figured I would look at a few Ideas of my own and see
>>what happens.
>>
>>1) who needs a spaceport?  Jump ships do *not* have to jump to a star or
>>starport right?  why can't someone astrogate to a specified destination in
>>virgin space, and drop off a ship there.  Fill it up with a cargo of fuel,
>>spare parts and so forth. As Time goes on, more and more materials can be
>>broght there and made to work as a type B starport of sorts...
>
> This is possible. Doing it while attracting no notice (for eg by data
> matching on filed flight plans for the subsector) will be more difficult.
>
> How many ships a month would you need to take to pay for the operation ?
>
> Would this attract attention ?
>
> I also *strongly* disagree with such a makeshift facility being capable of
> more than just refueling. No annual maintainence !

Well, a suggestion I made a *long* time ago was that a pirate group
could be started by an unscrupulous ship owner who had a misjump land
him near a second imperium deep space naval depot.

Sure, it'd need repairs, and the tech level certainly is current. But
it could be gotten going again. And if you were careful, you might even
be able to buy the new gear by selling off the old gear to scholars!

You'd just have to take your time and come up with a good cover story.
Say something about finding some derelist ships in an outer asteroid
belt of some system. That'd explain the vacuum welding, and cold creep.

Admittedly, this is a "only happens *once*" type setup. But it'ds be
great for explaining *how* the pirates in the subsectort your players
hang out in survive and get repairs.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 07:58:25 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: <Poof!>?

Of COURSE not...EVERYONE knows that Snowball the hamster is Brain's own
Moriarty!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Fri, 26 Dec 1997, Steven Hudson wrote:

> >(I categorically deny that I am actually a secret cockroach Agent 
> >Provocateur, sent to infiltrate your human Internet and induce you into 
> >killing yourselves off with Virus infected Near-C asteroids. Besides, I'm 
> >really a lab mouse, genetically mutated and cybernetically enhanced, 
> 
>         <Poof!>?
> 
>                 Shouldn't you have become a hamster?
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:58:44 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Scott Taylor wrote:

> > Now for todays Recipe Gilroy K'Kree with targon, (Dredging up old
> > topics)
>
> Tastes like chicken?

 Naw, more like Elk. Then there is the aslan's fav K'Kree Tar-Tar.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 97 18:57 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: IG is not going under

In-Reply-To: <34a844f3.31630585@mail.curie.dialix.com.au>

Phillip,

> >   Seriously, with a new release of the game coming out soon, one that
> >will hopefully fix at least some of the problems, IG would have to be
> >loopy to shut down--so they are not.
>  
> Oh, is this the how many times delayed product that was supposed to be released
> for (IIRC) GENCON, or was it ORIGINS? Then for "pre-christmas" and now at some
> unspecified future date? I wouldn't take all these delays as *necessarily* 
> meaning that someone at IG wants to a good job this time -- after all, their
> track record would not seem to wholeheartedly support such a proposition, would
> it now? It it is at least possible that the delays are caused by lack of money
> (or the staff and time that lack of money represents().

Marc has said that he himself is responsible for the delays in getting T4.1 out - 
he's waiting until *he* is satisfied before it gets published. 
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 02:37:07 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Piracy

Moin Ian or Katts,

	well I think, we had this discussion close before my harddisk
	went down, and I did'nt notice that MPGN gone offline like I've
	done - sill believing in the hardware virus ;-)

> Having a secure base with repair and refit capability and a system of
> protection against people coming after you and a way of getting rid of
> captured cargoes will make you successful.
> 
> Amateurs talk tactics. Professionals talk logistics.

	If I now take a look on common/canon Traveller settings, I allways
	see that the logistic problem was made solveable by the situation :

	CT : The spinward are frontier, the vargr not far and the sword
	worlders are known for one bussiness - wheeler. Imperial navy able
	to defend the main systems and to protect the main routes, has to
	bundle their assets. Any of the frontier wars started with a suprise
	win of the superior Zhodani. No naval officier wants to risk that
	anything smaller than a Ron moves. So most times systems are on
	their own, if they are wealthy they have a own SDB defense, if not
	" who cares " - the pirates do. A lot of backwater planets are
	willing to coorperate with them. They are called pirates elsewhere,
	but Sir Stoertebecker, a noble knight owner of the 2 SDBs defending
	the sytems from Vargs and Aslan and Zhos. He also owns 2 merchant
	vessels and a patrol cruiser for "escord" and is known for his
	allignment towards swordworlds, openly showing his Letter of Marque.
	Not to forget the continous "wars" between the megacooporations.
	Ai Morai deployed so called "Route Protectors" for their "trade
	war" in the Marches. Thouse are TL:15-3000dt ships.

	MT : In a revolutionary context there is only a small line between
	" fleet commandering of necessary supplies " and plundering. MT does
	even distinct between different kinds of piracy. StarMercs with a
	letter of Marque, Vikings (former Imperial fleets), Corsairs (those
	who have been before 1116, and know the tradition), Rippers (just
	kill and loot) and Lucans troops. Towards the end of MT (1128) only
	a few islands are save. Merchants left the outlands and wilds. Pirates
	have nothing to hunt than other pirates, and the "intelligent" one's
	group together to attack the last islands, to have a "stable base
	for repair".

	TNE: The whole plot is around pirates. Trying to distinct between
	the good pirates "Vikings" and the bad ones "Guild". "Smash and Grap"
	are the keywords for Viking operation, together with legal salvage
	and repairs in their save area, while raiding anything around.
	"Slavery", "Drugs", "Weapons" and of course dealing with the Awaken
	(the guild does'nt have any real production or repair capacity) are
	the keywords for the Guild. Those who are between the chairs (players
	with a free trader attitude) have to arange with one of the sides,
	or can try to make their next overhaul at Promise.

	M4 : The Sylean Trade is just BEFORE its becoming the mighty empire.
	If I look in the basic rulebook, they not even know their entire
	subsector. I hope nobody will claim that they are able to protect
	anything beyond their borders. 1st survey showed that their are not
	even able to collect accurate political data. Anything is frontier
	and the hidden base of the well known pirate can be 5 parsecs away.
	I would expect that their systems are well defended, even Baranik
	would have an SDB (surplus revenue cutter to be more precise). But
	if you are going outside the save area, you will do it either in
	convoy or become called a greenhorn.

> And the logistics of piracy are just horrific, particularily in a ruthless
> interstellar bureaucracy like the Third Imperium.

	Anytime somebody starts to calculate "system defense" based on
	the stable empire (DGP sectors - 2nd survey) he will come up
	that its IMPOSIBLE to be a lucrative pirate. Fortunately canon
	Traveller settings are allways in a frontier situation, because
	it makes more fun to solve the troubles there, than to fight
	the "bureaucracy".
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 17:38:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Air-superiority sleds...

>Not ONE PERSON posted a CSC design of Santa's sleigh to the list.  Much
>less organized a competition.

  Gee, it hardly seemed needful. After all, didn't White Dwarf long
ago publish a game inclusion on sleigh to sleigh combat combined with
ground delivery missions?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:36:59 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh

dukedrake writes:

>I'd like to propose that Santa is actually Grandfather... this solves a lot of
>questions regarding both figures. The Ancients were apparantly at the top of the
>"naughty list", and were not actually given lumps of coal, but the coal symbolized
>both the return to early industrial technology (as coal is a fuel source of that TL)
>as well as of the charred near-c rocks that rained down upon the Ancients'
>civilizations. Those races which were "good" were rewarded with "new toys" in the
>sense of further technological and evolutionary advancement.

   This would explain certain aspects of human history, however there is
the problem of uniform.  Santa is quite human, and has human clothing in
the form of a red suit and cap trimmed in white fur, black boots and a
matching belt (someone who all of our actions good and bad naturally can
accessorize).  Then there are those elves...

   Perhaps he is actually a remanent left over from the TL 21+ RoM.  :-)

>You can bet Strephon left milk and cookies for Grandfather on at least one occasion.
>:)

   And perhaps one year he forgot, which triggered the Rebellion!  The
Collapse could also be explained as being punishment for all the petty
dicators who were being naughty (especially Lucan).   

>For a dirigible, perhaps not, but if we presume that the gengineered reindeer are a
>more efficient system than that, it's more feasable. As a fuel source, Mexican food
>can certainly generate propulsion and power. The carbohydrates store an immense amount
>of energy alone, to say nothing of the gasses released in digestion. The spices
>involved are frequently experienced too much to be fully understood, although in
>sufficient concentrations, they may be capable of generating a thermo-chemical
>reaction along with the gasses to create organic HEPlaR drives. ;)

   It's been my experience that bad Mexican food gives one the feeling
of lift as the gases in the digestive system expand, however, those
gases are not enough to provide propulsion power (they do however
represent a definate biochemical hazard).  As for the thermo-chemical
spice reaction, typically bad Mexican food is produced for "American
tastes" rendering it about as spicy (and flavorful) as mush.

   No, to create the kind of reaction I believe you are looking for, you
would need to go with Cajun cuisine, preferably directly from New
Orleans.  Thai or Indian food will do as a substitute, but it must be
prepared by native-born cooks and be supplemented with bean paste to
create sufficent gas content.

>Lift is more a function of the external surface... someone ought to come up with a
>Streamlined Reindeer Airframe and relevant construction data.

   This would be true if the reindeer were designed using the aircraft
design sequence, however, I feel that the gravitic vehicle design
sequence is more appropriate in this case.

>> How much faster does a red nosed reindeer pull the sleigh than a standard one?
>
>Isn't the "red nose" a form of active sensor and avionics system? Hmm. Perhaps the
>other reindeer are also representative of specific ship's sub-systems (with their
>names being mnemonics for function, perhaps).

   Dasher, Dancer, Donner, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, and Blitzen. 
There seem to be an awful lot of 'D's there...someone else want to take
a crack at it?

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 23:26:06
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2181

At 12:30 AM 28/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>ike to
>
>Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:25:27 -0500
>From: hal@buffnet.net
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180
>
>>This is possible. Doing it while attracting no notice (for eg by data
>>matching on filed flight plans for the subsector) will be more difficult.
>
>Who needs flight plans?  The pirates won't be using filed plans to get to
>their location, and any body can file a false flight plan, follow it, but
>do only a .3 parsec jump instead of a full 1 parsec jump.
>

I dont know about you, but any thorough Vilani-influenced bureaucracy is
going to be forwarding the flight plans to where the ship said it was going. 

>>
>>How many ships a month would you need to take to pay for the operation ?
>
>Hmmm, let's see.  1 ship worth 80 Megacredits (just pulling numbers out of
>thin air), versus costs of maybe 200,000 per month... seems like it could
>work well enough.  That isn't even mentioning the fact you get the cargo
>for your own use, or perhaps to sell at a discounted value...

Do the numbers.

You will need (a) power plant, (b) accomodations, (c) mechanical and
electronic maintainence shops, (d) fuel tankage and (e) life support
(including food).

I'm interested in them - such a facility has civilian uses as well (put it
in an asteroid belt, and use it as the seed from which a colony will grow).

>
>
>>Would this attract attention ?
>
>Piracy would attract attention, no doubt about it.  Question is, if it is
>successful, what can one do about it?  Start investigating - but that was
>the whole point of a "protected" port concept, or a "hidden base" concept -
>you have to find the pirates to persecute them.

Or find their friends, and see whom among them is prepared to talk.

>
>
>>I also *strongly* disagree with such a makeshift facility being capable of
>>more than just refueling. No annual maintainence !
>
>Who needs maintenance?  Just dump the ship getting old, and use the one you
>have just taken over.  Mount the weapons on it, and move on...  Kinda like
>what the Pirates of Old Terra used to do.  If you got a better ship than
>your own, take it, and dump your own.

Yes, but such a ship will be comparable to your prey. It wont be a 4-6G
heavily armed ship optimised for mugging 2G lightly armed merchants. It
will be a 2G lightly armed merchant.

During the Golden Age of piracy in the Caribbean, crew were a much more
major factor in ship costs than they are in Traveller. Check Andrews'
"Elizabethan Privateering" for a short discussion of the ecomonics of
piracy - British Naval Documents, Postumus' "History of Prices in Holland"
and whatsisname's "American Treasure and the Price Revolution in Spain"
will let you get more accurate figures. Basically, for a 80 ton barque (a
"typical" privateer) provisions for the crew for a 6 month voyage were
about 20% of the total cost (including buying the actual boat).

Because of this, merchant ships tended to be grossly under-crewed, and
therefore vulnerable to boarding and such.

However, in Traveller, it is hardware that costs, and crew are cheap.
  
>
>>
>>>
>>>2) who needs to lie in wait to hit another trader?  Land in port with false
>>>ID.  Get a fake cargo, or low value cargo.  Wait around until someone files
>>>a flight plan for a location indicating time of departure and so forth.
>>>Lift a few moments later than the "prey" and then "unmask" your weapons
>>>when you decide you want them.
>>
>>If your Target captain is that stupid, he deserves a career change.
>
>Remember the convoy concept mentioned earlier?  Hmmm...
>

*sigh* the convoy escort goes at the back, and everyone keeps turrets etc
facing forward and the fire-control off.

Truly cautious escort commanders have a person on each bridge, who gets out
and jetpacks away from the ship before it jumps.

>>
>>Could also be embarressing if you get cross-checked and your records dont
>>match ("I'm sorry Sir, according to our most recent records, that
>>transponder ID is registered to a flying bathtub on Vland.").
>
>That is why you need a good forger.  *NOTHING* is without risk...

It isnt the quality of the forgery per se, it is the information contained
in the number. 

>
>>
>>Also, how can you tell when a flight plan got filed ? Also, wouldnt flight
>>plans involve the route to outaside the jump limit, and wouldnt the
>>Planetary Authorities get ahhh interested if you deviated from your lodged
>>course ?
>
>If you deviated from your course, it is likely you are already in pursuit
>of your prey.  What is the reaction time of the planetary forces?  Unless
>they keep a ship hot and ready to launch, or have a ship on patrol - you
>already have a major head start.  And a pirate should not be launching a
>piracy attempt under circumstances that will lead to capture of his own ship.

Well, I'd say that it's pretty damn good. Keeping a fighter in the air is
the equivalent of a cop car on patrol - it's *assumed* dammit.

I mean, what the heck do the IN and Planetary Defense Forces do when there
isnt a war on, fer chrissake ? Look at the British patrols in the Arabian
Sea between the wars - it is useful training for war.

Your last sentence is the key - if by simple and cheap precautions we can
make piracy an awful risk, then it isnt going to happen, just like piracy
(as opposed to seaborne muggings) doesnt happen here and now.

>
>>
>>Of course, truly twisted IN operatives could set up a ring selling fake
>>transponder IDs, and then red-card all the numbers out to all starports six
>>months later, and have anybody using them arrested on sight and their ships
>>seized, then interrogate them at leisure for any other information they may
>>have.
>
>
>So the pirates use their own fake codes.  Also, how difficult would it be
>to set up a one time legit code via a "newly" purchased ship?  Use once,
>and throw away...

*sigh* by doing this you are creating a nice juicy paper trail, or
involving more people, or both. Turning in your mates for the megacredit
reward is a much easier way to make a megacredit than is playing with
escort vessels.

>
>>>
>>>3) instead of #2, just have some sort of agent involved who can gather the
>>>flight plan in advance, lift in a ship prior to prey lifting, and "laser
>>>com" the real pirate ship with the particulars.  Put a shot across the bow,
>>>and let the ship "squeal" about being attacked.  If you have time, maybe
>>>place a mine ahead of the ship, and let them run into it if they attempt to
>>>flee.  Otherwise, burn the hull and crew if they don't surrender.
>>
>>How exactly does your man on the inside get at the comms equipment, which
>>is on the bridge, or to the outer hull, from where he could send a signal
>>back via the 100 000km Laser Comm he had in his backpack ?
>
>I will attempt to ignore the sarcasm here and answer direct:  Mike Johnson,
>commo tech at Ruie Space control, has been watching for a juicy cargo.  He
>has a private tap into the database of ship flight plans.  Discovering that
>a ship is about to leave for some planet within the next 24 hours, he then
>sends word to a buddy of his, who then uses a tight beam laser comm unit to
>contact a pirate ship with the particulars of the pending departure.  No
>need for a 100,000 km laser commo unit - backpack style...

Ruie is in the Spinward Marches, just near the Zhodani border, isnt it ?

Wouldnt it be easier with a setup like that to approach the Zhos instead ?
Or quietly inform INI how you managed it, in exchange for a knighthood and
a pension ?

>
>>
>>>
>>> From what I have read about piracy, the thing that makes it work, if you
>>>will, is the fact that merchants don't want to be sunk or worse.  Develope
>>>a reputation for killing wayward merchants who fight or run, and be lenient
>>>with merchants that co-operate.  If needed, strafe the homeworld of
>>>merchant captains who don't surreneder (one false move, and your planet of
>>>registry gets a midnight raid wise guy!).
>>
>>No, the thing that makes it work is having a safe harbour.
>
>Two things make piracy work.  The first is having the prey give in without
>a fight.  While it may work out that the prey ship is destroyed, it doesn't
>help if the prey (assuming it is armed) manages to not only deprive you of
>income via their ship, but also manages to hurt you severely enough that a
>patrol ship can capture you later.  The second thing, as you mention, is
>the need to be able to unload your cargo in a freeport.

As you pointed out, this cuts both ways. If you get hurt, then you will
have a short and unprofitable career as a pirate.

The Target crew also have the problem of how can they trust you when you
say "Your money or your life". As Hans pointed out a while ago, whilst it
is in the interest of pirates in general to let captured crews live (avoids
bad publicity and all that), it is in the interest of every individual
pirate to kill on capture (no witnesses).

>
>>BTW, think for a second on what the IN would do if you actually *tried*
>>that really really dumbshit stunt you mentioned last. I think we are, at
>>minimum, looking at a Sector Alert, and every damn cruiser available
>>scouring the space lanes.
>
>YES!  Exactly!  Point is, if you pulled such a stunt, it will be remembered
>for a LONG LONG time, as well as make you a very sought after man.  In real
>life, this would amount to the same as the Pirate raid on Panama, or
>Tortuga, etc...

The pirate concerned, on the other hand, would be very, very, very dead. An
old saw about old pirates and bold pirates, and an acute lack of old, bold
pirates comes to mind.

>
>>
>>Even making such a threat will probably get you shot by a crewmember.
>
>A crew that willingly participates in such an atrocity, is likely to care
>less if you make such a threat.  A crew memember who is that squeamish is
>likely to lose his own life.  Never underestimate the fear of
>self-preservation.  In any case, we are dealing with "PIRATES", not law
>abiding citizens.

*shrug* 1% motivation and 99% opportunity. And remember, even Himmler tried
to cut a deal in April 1945.

>
>
>>>  All in all, while not easy, Piracy doesn't have to be a matter of
>>>hijacking, nor does it have to be a matter of waiting for a cargo of
>>>opportunity.
>>
>>But it always has to be a matter of profit and loss. 
>
>Taking one ship alone, is a profit situation - assuming there is no damage.
> Even if you only got 1/10th the value of an 80 million credit ship, you
>still make a profit of 8 million credits.

First catch your pigeon, then make sure the bloke buying it off you isnt
from INI.

>
>>>  Simple solutions to piracy?  Convoy.  Multiple ships band together and
>>>leave within minutes of each other.  The planetary navy escorts them to the
>>>jump limits, and one by one, they jump.  Also, have "lanes" of exit and
>>>entrance for ships that jump.  This way, the Government doesn't have to
>>>patrol everywhere, just the "lanes".  Of course, this makes it easier for
>>>pirates to spot the ships, but then again, with an escort awaiting the
>>>ships...
>>
>>An exceptionally cheap, effictive and simple countermeasure, adopted
>>throughout history.
>>
>>Personally, I think Vilani worlds will always be doing this, even when it
>>is a thousand years or more since the Long Night.
>>
>>I'll be posting a SDB optimised for convoy duties later today. It mounts a
>>600 megajoule laser, and costs an unbelievably small amount. As a
>>non-starship, it can be maintained at a class C starport.
>
>Here is a challange for you Ian.  Design your ships, figure out your costs
>for running such a set up.  Then compare it with the GPP (Gross Planetary
>Product) of the area you are involved with.  Factor in the training costs.
>Factor in the wear and tear on the equipment.  Then, design the operations
>of the space port authority.  Somewhere, I would be willing to bet you, the
>following will occur:

OK. It's following in the next post. Has a nuke damper, 5 cm of superdense
on the hull, a 600 megajoule laser and costs less than 30 megacredits.

Training costs are amortised through the crew costs. We'll pay crew Cr 50
000 a year each (Cr4000 a month - damn good money).

Wear and tear goes under standard military 10% maintainence costs. If we
are assuming a type D starport, then we ship them via freighter to a type C
starport, and get the maintainence done there (assume a 3 parsec trip
costing Cr3000 per displacement ton each way).

>
>1) you will leave a loop hole where a pirate could concievably wiggle through
>2) make it so damned expensive, that commerce suffers, or the government
>suffers

What a fair proportion of cargo costs to allocate to anti-pirate work ? 28
credits per displacement ton of cargo that passes through the starport (2
Cr per cubic meter of cargo) ?

Next issue is the cross-subsidy of the small worlds by the big, wealthy
ones. It is in the interests of the big, wealthy worlds to help the small
worlds protect traffic against pirates, because the ships pirated will
probably be owned by commercial interests based on the big worlds.

I think it is well worth slinging 0.1% of your defense budget to each
small, vulnerable world within your economic sphere.

>
>
>Scenario:
>
>Convoy duty has 3 SDB escorting 8 ships about to reach the 50 planetary
>diameter limit.  Ships recieve a mayday from a ship that Jumps in, claiming
>a major emergency (Gasp - under attack by a pirate perhaps?).  Commander,
>by law, must send out a ship.    Now we have two ships on escort duty.

No, we send a launch from the starport, and are requesting a full report on
exactly what sort of Mayday it is (starport launches have emergency low
berths and trained medics and stuff) while the launch is getting there (we
presumably have an hour or so).

Timing that jump in is goanna be tricky, too. My understanding is precise
time in jumpspace is random.

>Prior intelligence by the pirates at the starport, have a preplotted convoy
>path.  Mines lie in wait - not in the path of the convoy, but to a tangent.

What sort of mines are these, that dont show up on active sensors or LADAR
? And 100 diameters is *well* within sensor range of the big chunky sensors
at the starport, so I dare say we would have noticed the minelayer.

LADARs also have a 50 kkm range. Det lasers at TL12 fire 15 kkm. Mines just
aint goanna cut it. 

Oh yeah, and "Follow the escort's motions" is the route the route the
merchant ships get told. The captain gets to follow his own inititive.

> Upon the convoy reaching the proper location.  A single pirate launches an
>attack, attempting to draw off another ship.  Assuming that one ship is
>drawn off in pursuit, that is when it runs into a minefield.  Kinda like
>digging a pit trap and then waving a red flag just when the bull is on the
>other side of the trap with the trap between you and the bull...

Why ? All three escorts will just fill the pirate with holes from range,
and then put out an APB for a damaged ship. Assuming the combat starts at
300 000 km range or so, there is no way a SDB can catch it before it jumps,
even if the SDBs pull 4Gs to the pirate's 2.

If the ship is out of combat range, we leave it alone until the convoy has
jumped, and *then* we go fill it with holes.

Oh yeah, and you have the merchants, each with one baby (1m3) sandcaster or
one baby (250 MJ) laser shooting at you too, using fire control solutions
provide by the escorts (hey, I work in Famile Spofulam. 250 megajoules *is*
a baby weapon. If you propose putting anything under 600 megajoules on a
ship, they paint yellow spiders on your workstation).

>
>  In any case, as a final indignity, one or even two ships in the convoy,
>are actually ringers, and upon discovering that there is only one escort -
>fire upon that one escort.  One really nasty variable, might be to have a
>fighter lying in wait...

Look Hal, have you looked at the Traveller sensor distances ? Do you know
how impossible it is to hide in deep space, under the sensors given ? In a
gas giant, yes. On a moon, sure. Behind a big asteroid, no problem. In deep
space ? No way.

Look at the detection ranges on the *fighters* in the last THUDDD
competition. The X-1108 Firefly (44 MCr) has a PEMS that goes out to 5
million kilometers. And thats the cheap design.

It would also be embarressing for the SBD to make it's active sensor roll,
and have the fighter get hit by a nice chunky laser while it is still and
can't evade.

Civilian lasers also wont penetrate escort hulls. At least not when I'm
building the escorts.

>
>  In other words, wolf pack tactics were designed to deal with convoy
>escorts.  For any man patient enough to deal with the planning required,
>and with the resources required - could conceivably make a pirate raid work.

Forcing concentration against concentration increases the minimum cost of
the pirate's operation. You are talking four ships and maybe a fighter,
plus a number of people on the inside. Lots of people, lots of risks, lots
of things to go wrong. It's an investment in the MCr150 range, at least.

>
>  I am not saying that the life of a pirate would be easy, nor without
>dangers.  There are counters to just about any defense that could be
>thought up.  Planet based sensors could be destroyed prior to a raid.  HARM
>missiles could be used.  A datanet could be compromised by hackers.  There
>seems to be an awful lot of things that could happen to derail an attempt
>to come to the rescue of a pirate attacked ship.
>
>  In short, while the piracy has to be well thought out, and perhaps even a
>bit lucky, the fact of the matter is, it isn't a cut and dried operation
>either.
>
>Question:  Suppose a ship has a commo and radar jammer on.  Ship hits prey.
> Prey ship is taken, and ship is launched on a balastic path at tangent to
>the original path.  Pirate ship with Jammer then goes inert, and also
>launches on balastic trajectory.  No transponders working, no active
>powerplant emmisions, crews are in vacc suits.  Now what?

We send out a launch, detecting both ships via the launch's LADAR.

We also wanna know how you managed to stay undetected, or what the target
was doing outside the jump limit. Barratry is much simpler ... have the
crew arrange a rendezvous with the "pirate" and then claim that they had no
choice, and had to surrender. They have their cut paid into a bank account,
and pick it up after the debriefing.

Making piracy work in Traveller without the support of a nearby government
just requires too many assumptions, and too much incompetance on the side
of the counter-pirate forces. It's your campaign, but the numbers for the
pirates just dont stack up.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2182
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, December 29 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2183



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Traveller GURPS
Does anyone in TX still play CT?
Re: Making a Business Complaint in California
Uncie Hengie ...
Happy New Year
Anniak Run
Survey Update
FF&S2 stats for BMFD?
Re:Horrible realization 
Spaceworthy jokes
Re: Explosive Kreef (from Scientific American)
Adduxar
Re: <Poof!>?
Re: >*field mice*.
Horrible realization
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:43:57 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Traveller GURPS

Aerron Winsor writes Re: IG going under? [Oh No, not this one again]
> 
> In a message dated 97-12-24 22:29:25 EST, you write:
> 
> Ithklur (holding tight for GURPS Traveller)
> *****
> Rodger That.
 
For what it's worth, I ran across a GURPS Traveller site while browsing
earlier.  The address was  http://www.io.com/~jlockett/RPG/Traveller

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:30:18 -0600
From: Robert Dittrich <dittrich@conceptserv.com>
Subject: Does anyone in TX still play CT?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD13E0.2E2942E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am looking to join or form a group to play CT in, or reasonably near, Austin TX. Is anyone out there that can help me?
(Please return email privately to the address below)
- - Rob Dittrich
dittrich@conceptserv.com
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD13E0.2E2942E0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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==

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD13E0.2E2942E0--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:08:58 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Making a Business Complaint in California

Rob Prior writes:

>Could some kind soul please post the postal address of the California
>Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (of whatever the=20
>California equivalent is)?  I want to be ready to escalate my=20
>complaints if Imperium Games doesn't explain why they haven't shipped=20
>me the products I've paid for.

   Once again, the danger of having a librarian on this list with
Internet access is borne out...

   I'm posting the requested information here to save time (I'm figuring
there will be more than a few people who will want it).

California

State Offices=20
Marjorie Berte, Director=20
California Department of Consumer Affairs=20
400 R Street, Suite 3000=20
Sacramento, CA 95814=20
916=AD445=AD4465=20
TDD: 916=AD322=AD1700=20
Toll free in CA: 800=AD952=AD5200=20

Office of Attorney General=20
Public Inquiry Unit=20
P.O. Box 944255=20
Sacramento, CA 94244=AD2550=20
916=AD322=AD3360=20
TDD: 916=AD324=AD5564=20
Toll free in CA: 800=AD952=AD5225

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:12:20
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Uncie Hengie ...

To : High Energy Solutions Branch
From : Hengabar Spofulam
CC : Insystem Craft Branch ; Power Systems Branch ; Marketing Department
Re : Four Fours SDB

Employees,

It has come to my attention that Famile Spofulam Yards has a very low
market share in the lucrative Insystem Defense Craft market.

Therefore, I have made a company-wide determination that our next insystem
craft will fit the following criteria at minimum.

     (1) Four centimeters of Superdense armour.
     (2) Four gees acceleration.
     (3) Armament of four hundred megajoules output at forty thousand
kilometers.
     (4) Fourty four megacredits maximum price.

I hope to here from you with preliminary design specs now or sooner.

Marketing, come up with a slogan.

Hengabar Spofulam

************************************************************************************

To : Uncie Hengie
From : Diiiitttziieeee
Re : Five fours

Uncie,

We couldnt do the five fours.

We managed a seven point five, a four pont eight, a six, and a three
hunnerd and a twenty-two.

We're sowwwwwy that we wrecked Maaaaaaarketing's nice slogan.

It's a one hunnerd dton sphere, with ten centimeters of Supa-wupa-dense
armour. It masses eighteen hunnery tons. 

It has a thrustie-wustie plate that mushes it at one point eight meters per
second square-square-squared acceleration, and and and a Heplar engine with
fuel for two hunnerd and sixty minutes that goes at a maximum-waximum of
four point one two gees.
Booooth engines will mush mush mush everything at four point three gees.

The main gunnie-wunnie is a six hunnerd magajoule laser-waser that fits in
the nosie-wosie as a spiiiinal mount. The laaaser beam has enough
weeeet-bix to go two hunnerd twenny five thousand kilometer-wometers, and
enough juice juice juiiiiiice in the battery-watteries to power the
laser-waser to go zappity zap zap zap every ten seconds for an hour.

An an an it has a twenny thousand kilometer nukie-wukie damper-wamper, an
an an three sandcasters that chuck big big big clouds of sand - three point
three seven fiiiiive cubic meters of sandie-wandie per try. The threeeeee
projectors have ten big cans each, for a tooootal of thirty cans.

Weeeeeeee reckon that between the armour, the nukie damper and the sand
sand sand saaaaaaaand it should be pwetty well pwotected aginst most
anything short of a cruiser-wuser-bwuser.

It has Active an Passive sensors and a Laaaaadar, an two laser comms.

The whole thing is powered by lots of battery-watteries, and and and a five
hunnerd megawatt fusie-wusie plusssss power plant. Weeeeee dont like that
Mr Zhunatsu, but they were cheeeeeap an small an we had enough surface
areas for the radiator-wadiators.

The crew of six  is protected-wotected by a threeeeee gee compensator, so
they shouldnt be tooooo uncomfortable.

An uncie-wunkie, the whoooooole thing costs twenny five point one megacwedits.

Your loving cousein,

Ditzie

****************************************************************************
***

Fusion plus is an abomination in the sight of God and Man.

You read that right. Twenty five point one megacredits for a SDB mounting a
600 megajoule laser, ten centimeters of superdense, that can pull four
point three gees for four hours, and has a nuke damper and three big
sandcasters.

Hal, these are my anti-pirate Escort Corvettes.

Here are the FFS2 numbers for the FSY Escort Corvette. Everything is TL12.

100 dton sphere : 1400 m3, 605 m2

Stress for 6gs : 0.07 m3(1399.93) ; 1.05 t (1.05) ; MCr 0.01

10 cm Superdense hull (AV200)
60.5 m3 (1339.43) ; 907.5 t (908.45) ; MCr 0.86 (0.87)

500 MW TL 12 Fusion+ Power Plant
100 m3 (1239.43) ; 500 m2 (105) ; 200 t (1108.45) ; MCr 1 (1.87)

11 m3 Fusion+ Fuel
11 m3 (1228.43) ;                  12t (1120.45) ;

4 000 KN Thruster Plates (requires 10 MW)
10 m3 (1218.43) ; 2 m2 (103)   ; 20 t (1140.45) ;  MCr 2.5 (4.37)

90 000 KN HePLaR (requires 450 MW)
45 m3 (1173.43) ; 45 m2 (58)  ; 45 t (1185.45) ; MCr 0.45 (4.72)

4 hr 20 min Heplar reaction mass
530.8 m3 (642.63) ;            ; 37.92 t(1223.37) 

Dynamic Control System
1.4 m3 (641.32) ;              ; 1.4 t (1224.77) ; MCr 1 (5.72)
 
900 m3 Type 3 life support (all but Heplar tankage)
7.2 m3 (634.03) ;              ; 7.2 t (1231.97) ; MCr 0.25 (5.97)

3.0 m diameter 600 MJ spinal laser (DV 122 at 225 000 km ;one shot/10
seconds; Has batteries for one hours operation, otherwise 300 MW at max ROF)
372 m3 (262.03) ; 7.07 m2 (51.93) ; 716t (1947.97) ; MCr 3.6 (9.54)

20 kkm Nuclear Damper (has batteries for one hours operation, otherwise 10 MW)
56.5 m3 (205.52) ; 5 m2 (46.93) ; 63.5 t (2011.47) ; MCr 1.35 (10.89)

3 Sand Projectors (10 cans, each can 3.375 m3 <AV 265>)
120 m3 (85.52)  ; 30 m2 (16.93) ; 104.1 t (2155.57) ; MCr 0.84 (11.73)

PEMS-13
1.1 m3 (84.42) ; 1.1 m2 (15.83) ; 1t      (2156.57) ; MCr 5    (16.37)

AEMS-11.5 (2.5 MW required)
13.75 m3(70.67) ; 3.13 m2 (12.72) ; 25 t  (2181.57) ; MCr 5    (21.37)

Ladar-14 (0.2 MW required)
0.67 m3(70.00) ; 0.25 m2 (12.22) ; 0.42 t (2181.99) ; MCr 2.5  (23.87)

Twin CM 0.6 Fib Computers (0.032 MW required)
0.64 m3(69.36) ;                 ; 0.13 t (2182.12) ; MCr 0.25 (24.12)

Twin 1000 AU Laser Communicators
0.1 m3 (69.26) ; 0.2 m2  (12.02) ; 0.02 t (2182.14) ; MCr 0.36 (24.48)

Standard Airlock (0.001 MW required)
3 m3 (66.26) ; 2 m2 (10.02) ;      0.2 t (2182.34) ; MCr 0.01  (24.58)

2 bridgestations (Pilot, Sensor Ops)
28 m3 (38.26) ,             ;      0.4 t (2182.74) ; Mcr 0.1   (24.68)

4 crewstations (Engineer, Sancaster Ops , Damper Ops, Laser Ops)
28 m3 (10.26) ;             ;      0.8t   (2183.54) ; MCr 0.1  (24.78)

3G Compensation (Crew and Bridgestations only. 0.1 MW required)
1.2 m3 (9.06) ;             ;      0.02t  (2183.56) ; MCr 0.3  (25.08)

Twin Adequate Seats
7 m3 (2.06)   ;             ;      0.04t  (2183.60) ; MCr 0.01 (25.09)


Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:40:25 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Happy New Year

Well I'm about to dissappear off into a TL 0 wilderness for a week, so
I thought I'd take the opportuity to wish you all a happy and safe new
year.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 05:11:28 EST
From: FKiesche <FKiesche@aol.com>
Subject: Anniak Run

Greetings All:

Just to let you know, according to my local FNGS, "Anniak Run" (I am
undoubtedly not spelling this correctly!) is now out.

Hey, maybe I'll actually get this one as my replacement for JTAS!

Fred Kiesche
(FKiesche@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:12:19 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Survey Update

Hy Folks,

	2nd and 3rd survey are NEW AND IMPROVED ;-)

	The viewer is improved (Java&HTML) and has some nice new features,
	like a fractal world generator, zoom/unzoom from subsector to sector
	and a lot of more.

	2nd survey is now back including the complete 32 DGP2 sectors
	including comments by GAL2.3 with the stellar data remerged.
	3nd survey shows 2 subsectors not in GAL2.3. Rure and Tansa 1202.

	If you like it drop me a note, if you have encounter a problem
	drop me a note, if you downloaded it and want to install it at
	home or at your provider, drop me a note, if you want to have
	your world writeups included, ....

	Have a nice travelling,

		Kraehe
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:52:34 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?

Harold Hale wrote:

[snip]
>
>   As far as performance characteristics are concerned, once again TL
>21+ technology comes to the rescue.  There would be no jump drive, as
>transport between systems would be handled via psionic transfer drive or
>perhaps a series of teleportation gates a la Secret of the Ancients (one
>for each inhabited system).  Sublight drive performance required could
>be provided by the reindeer provided they were genetically engineered
>for this purpose.  Since we already know they can fly, it can safely be
>assumed this has already taken place (btw, bad Mexican food would
>provide lift but not propulsion).


	Not neccessarily.  Given enough bioengineering to get properly
shaped excretory orifices, and some means of ignition (perhaps a
bioengineered catalyst secretion) I'm sure that you could get quite a lot
of thrust of of the methane generated by digesting bad mexican food.

	What I want to know is why this isn't covered in FF&S2.  I know the
T4 Fifth Prime directive forbids the usual gratituous sex and violence, but
it says nothing about bad taste.  I think that the Bad Mexican Food Drive
has loads of potential.

	Hm...  but why stop at reindeer?  Just bioengineer batwings onto
them, plus the above mods, and you could not only get flying pigs, but
rocket-propelled flying pigs.

	Hm.  I sense the birth of another division at FS.

	Off to breakfast!

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:55:36 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re:Horrible realization 

Kenji wrote:

>
>We are all disgraces to all that is Travelleresque and gearful.  Every last
>one of us.
>
>Not ONE PERSON posted a CSC design of Santa's sleigh to the list.  Much
>less organized a competition.
>
>My humiliation and shame exceed all 100-diameter limits.
>
>Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com


	Hey.  I have an excuse.  I was busy.  not only did we have the
Montreal branch of my girlfriend's family over (14 people), but I also
nearly managed to burn my face off cooking the turkey.

	The bird was so darn large (24 lbs) that it filled most of the
disposable aluminum roasting pan we put it in...  This left little extra
room fordrippings in the pan, which developed an annoying tendency to
overflow and fall to the bottom of the stove, causing little flareups.

	So what I did is I took a basting syringe and a saucepan, and
started transferring drippings into the saucepan via syringe in order to
lower the dripping levels.  It was working very well, and then the syringe
bulb suddenly sprung a rather large leak.  Post-incident investigations
revealed a 1-cm long split in the rubber.  Basically, the result was that
vacuum was lost, causing a full load from the basting syringe to drain in a
graceful arc directly onto the oven element, whereupon it erupted into a
Hiroshima-esque fireball, making a loud "whump" noise.

	Of course, I was bent over with my face in the oven at the time.

	Human reflexes are an amazing thing.  Before I realized what was
happening, I was standing back up and reopening my eyes, with Suzanne
looking at me with a horrified expression.  As it happens, I think that the
fireball missed most of my face.  I didn't get so much as a single
first-degree burn, and my eyebrows are mostly intact; I only had the hair
on the front and temples kinda singed.  If I brush my hair forwards it
probably won't even show.

	Hope your Xmases were as exciting.




Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:00:01 -0500
From: Victor Brueggemann <dukedrake@earthlink.net>
Subject: Spaceworthy jokes

Jeff Foxworthy was mentioned on the #traveller IRC channel the other
night, and we came up with a few good one-liners...


If you thought the motto of the Imperial Scouts really was "We come in
peace, shoot to kill", you may be Solomani.

If you once owned an entire planet, but only for five minutes, you may
be a Vargyr.

If you say you're an Aslan, and the bodies of those who disagree are
piled at your feet, you may be an Aslan.

If the guy sitting next to you is thinking, "He looks like a dirty Zho",
you may be Zhodani.

If nobody laughs at your jokes because they're the same time-honored
jokes your family has been telling for generations, you may be Vilani.

If you play the "Pocket Empires" game with real empires, you may be a
Hiver.

If you've ever looked up at the stars at night, and been ostracized by
your friends, family, and neighbors for it, you may be a Droyne.

If you think "Hamburger Helper" is a Hiver manipulation, you may be a
K'kree.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 07:16:01 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Explosive Kreef (from Scientific American)

<<The hydrodyne method (sounds safer, doesn't it) could be 
commercialized by 1999. >>

Shouldn't that be the HyDroyne Method for tenderizing Kreef?

Greg



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:10:01 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Adduxar

Anybody have detailed information on the Adduxar race? All I have is:

Carnivorous reptilian race with small stellar empire of about 37 planets

met peacefully by the Zhodani as they expanded. Currently Zhodani
citizens with a 10 planet reservation.

I'm interested in anything else people may know about them, especially
if pictures are available.

- --
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:29:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: <Poof!>?

Bruce Johnson wrote; 
> Of COURSE not...EVERYONE knows that Snowball the hamster is Brain's own
> Moriarty!

YE-ESSS!

Turn into a hamster? Don't be silly. Why should mentioning Virus infected 
Near C...

<poof>

Pinky!? My Lord, Pinky, what have you done! Why you've... you've

PINKY!!!
(I'm going to hurt you terribly, Pinky, once I figure out how to get off 
of this treadmill...)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

> On Fri, 26 Dec 1997, Steven Hudson wrote:
> > (I wrote)
> > >(I categorically deny that I am actually a secret cockroach Agent 
> > >Provocateur, sent to infiltrate your human Internet and induce you into 
> > >killing yourselves off with Virus infected Near-C asteroids. Besides, I'm 
> > >really a lab mouse, genetically mutated and cybernetically enhanced, 
> > 
> >         <Poof!>?
> > 
> >                 Shouldn't you have become a hamster?
> > 
> > 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:52:37 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Scott Taylor wrote:
[snip]
>> If not, is there something about yourself that you aren't telling us?
>
>Nope; Kenji had stated;
>
>> >cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
>> >universally allergic to).

Actually, it wasn't me who said that.  In fact, I'm allergic to damn near
everything EXCEPT cockroaches.

>(I categorically deny that I am actually a secret cockroach Agent
>Provocateur, sent to infiltrate your human Internet and induce you into
>killing yourselves off with Virus infected Near-C asteroids. Besides, I'm
>really a lab mouse, genetically mutated and cybernetically enhanced,
>carrying out a plan to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!)

Working as I do in biomedical research admin, I know of a simple and
entertaining device to stop this threat in its tracks:  the mouse
liquefiers.  It's a sort of souped-up blender that reduces lab mice to,
well, soup, in a fraction of the time it used to take to do it by hand.
They cost a fortune, of course, but they're extremely impressive in action.

Beware, O white wiggly-nosed one... They are watching you still.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:27:11 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Horrible realization

Hello,

I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and will have a Happy New Year.

Now in regard to Santa's Sleigh, don't you think you have overlooked the
most obvious  solution?  Santa must have a gold watch integrated on his
H.G.T. (Holiday Gift Transport).  Gold watch technology is quite ancient. 
Dating back to the days of Ancient Terra, it simply compresses the
time-field around the HGT.  If the time field were compressed by just a
factor of 5.94142381238, Santa would be able to do a years worth of work in
just one night.  Increase that by only a factor of 10.37348118178 and he
would be able to access the estimated 32000 worlds populated by humans. 
All in just one night.  Everyone knows that Santa's watch is one of the 25
hour varieties (you know, if you follow midnight around the globe, you gain
an hour).

Of course, I have noticed more than one Santa around, perhaps, he uses
duplicates (clones?) to lighten his work load, so he can still have time
with Mrs. Claus (if you know what I mean).  Or maybe he just uses the magic
of the season.  You know a little fairy dust for the reign deer a little
dust for Santa, a little more dust for Santa. ;-)  (and people wonder why
the old St. Nick is so jolly)

Sincerely

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:20:50 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180

At 12:25 AM 12/28/97 -0500, hal@buffnet.net wrote:

Note - the great piracy debate took place a few month ago, and might be
worth a read for anyone who was not involved at the time.  I am going to
dredge up some of the points, and I may not support them in detail here, as
they were previously debated.

>>Would this attract attention ?
>
>Piracy would attract attention, no doubt about it.  Question is, if it is
>successful, what can one do about it?  Start investigating - but that was
>the whole point of a "protected" port concept, or a "hidden base" concept -
>you have to find the pirates to persecute them.

Finding pirates is not that hard - go where the traffic is.  You know they
have to get very close to a planet, because the merchants are.  Every
target they might want to grab is almost certainly within 100d of an
inhabited world.  Further, if there are enough customers to justify the
shipment of cargo, then there are enough to justify defending the vessels
that take it.

For large worlds, they are well defended, such that convoys are not needed.
 If someone is looking for a cargo to West Bumfuck, and you know their
defenses suck, you are going to be more careful.  Trips like this are when
convoys become useful.

Let me hit one point again - 100d limits, combined with the cheap cost of
military vs. civilian ships makes it a virtual certainty that there will be
enough ships to defend against the problem.  A 100d sphere is not that
large, given traveller weapons, and there will be a lot of ships.  Larger
limits, such as 2AU, or vastly inferior sensors to the ones available
today, will help a lot, but classic Traveller background and pricing makes
it very, very difficult to do.

>>>2) who needs to lie in wait to hit another trader?  Land in port with false
>>>ID.  Get a fake cargo, or low value cargo.  Wait around until someone files
>>>a flight plan for a location indicating time of departure and so forth.
>>>Lift a few moments later than the "prey" and then "unmask" your weapons
>>>when you decide you want them.
>>
>>If your Target captain is that stupid, he deserves a career change.
>
>Remember the convoy concept mentioned earlier?  Hmmm...

You are still within a few hours of the planet, which means that you are
taking a substantial risk.  I will hit this again in a moment.

>>Could also be embarressing if you get cross-checked and your records dont
>>match ("I'm sorry Sir, according to our most recent records, that
>>transponder ID is registered to a flying bathtub on Vland.").
>
>That is why you need a good forger.  *NOTHING* is without risk...

On the other hand, the effort expended by both sides tends to go up in
accordance with the amount of money involved.  Just imagine what kind of
work would be done to identify an 80MCr asset.  This represent the yearly
output of some 8,000-40,000 people!

Yes, a good forger might be able to do something that would survive a week,
especially on a backwater, but I would not want to bet on it.  The cost of
someone doing so is pretty high.  Without considering piracy at all, I
suspect there is a lot of effort put in place to prevent skipping - a
reasonable return on an 80MCr investment would give you 2.4 MCr a year, or
the rough income of 240 people, so skipping is going to be a real, credible
threat.  The ship's papers checks to prevent that are also going to catch
many a pirate.

>>Also, how can you tell when a flight plan got filed ? Also, wouldnt flight
>>plans involve the route to outaside the jump limit, and wouldnt the
>>Planetary Authorities get ahhh interested if you deviated from your lodged
>>course ?
>
>If you deviated from your course, it is likely you are already in pursuit
>of your prey.  What is the reaction time of the planetary forces?  Unless
>they keep a ship hot and ready to launch, or have a ship on patrol - you
>already have a major head start.

Put a dozen defensive ships in orbit on patrol, and you are pretty safe.

Unless they have a designated jump point, in which case they can patrol it,
then you would be a bit surprised if anyone was within combat range of a
leaving ship, once you leave planetary defense range.  As I said before,
space is big, and you know they are going to have to rendez-vous with you,
thus they need to be a lot closer than they would have to be to shoot at
you.  (NB - Napoleonic age of sail instincts are a little off here -
weapons range was not that much greater than boarding range, while
Traveller weapons ranges are vastly greater than boarding range, and take
significant time to travel.)

Sensors let you see a LONG way in Traveller, because present day ones are
pretty good.  Weapons have tremendous engagement ranges as well.  I try to
design for 8 LS myself, for planetary defenses, which means that you can
reach out and touch someone far beyond the moon, and a significant fraction
of the way to the jump point.  That would rule it out for most piracy
purposes.  Clearly, therefore, piracy will happen near, but not at, the
jump limit.

Further, the merchant knows that his ship is likely worth more than his
cargo, so he will not trust that you are going to let him live - he is the
sole witness to a theft of 80 million credits, after all.  Therefore, you
must have a way of disabling him despite his resistance.  A merchant who
trusted a pirate to just take his cargo is likely a dead fool.

Let's sum up.

Defenses likely exist on important planets.

You would need to intercept, which takes lots of time, and is pretty
noticeable.

You need to disable, which also takes time.  The crew is unlikely to turn
over the vessel to you, because they do not want to die.

Once you have done so, you need to take the ship.  I would make it
difficult to do in less than an hour or two, were I the designer, just to
prevent this kind of thing in civilized space, but that is not canonical.

As a result, you are talking a very fast operation to get the ship taken.
You may have an hour, but I would bet that you should plan on a ten minute
engagement or less, once you count the long travel time, during which
interception is likely coming.

Here again, I am not saying it couldn't be done, just that it is likely not
very cost effective.  A cargo unloader that can strip a larger merchant in
ten minutes would be worth some cash at a port, I suspect.  The ships
represent a lot of capital lying around as well.

>>> From what I have read about piracy, the thing that makes it work, if you
>>>will, is the fact that merchants don't want to be sunk or worse.  Develope
>>>a reputation for killing wayward merchants who fight or run, and be lenient
>>>with merchants that co-operate.  If needed, strafe the homeworld of
>>>merchant captains who don't surreneder (one false move, and your planet of
>>>registry gets a midnight raid wise guy!).

And the home planet is going to be defenseless?  I feel that this is an
inappropriate threat, unless you are in a battleship, and if you have that,
then pirate is not the right term.  Admiral is a better one.  :)

>>No, the thing that makes it work is having a safe harbour.
>
>Two things make piracy work.  The first is having the prey give in without
>a fight.  ... The second thing, as you mention, is
>the need to be able to unload your cargo in a freeport.

Actually, I disagree with you both in the Traveller universe, though you
are both quite spot on for the real world.  The maritime histories I have
read indicate to me that acts of piracy are not committed where they can be
seen.  Pirates need safe harbors, and they need to capture the prey easily,
but more important than anything else, they need to act where they will not
be spotted.  You are in worlds of hurt if the Navy comes knocking while you
are pillaging.

In an ocean, you can be days away from anyone, and can be out of sight by
the time they look, because an ocean is big, and ships spend a lot of time
vulnerable - a one month trip leads to a one month piracy window.

Space is also big, but it is empty, and most ships are found within 100d of
a world.  The resulting area to be patrolled is essentially empty, and
fairly easy to patrol, as a result.  You can spot most anything lurking in
it.  Further, a two week trip is out of range of the planet's defenses and
not in jump space for a very brief time - hours in many cases.  This window
can be closed with a relatively small number of patrollers.  (I am leaving
the question open as to whether these patrollers would exist.  That is
worth reading the old threads for.)

Consider, if the Navy can see you, then they can probably kill you, and
thus you may only commit acts of piracy where they are not.  A previous
debate settled pretty convincingly that the naval budgets could buy a lot
of escorts, tenders, and combat craft.  ISTR that you could put a dozen
destroyers on every system by using roughly 1% of the naval budget of the
three high pop worlds in 36.  It did not insure that they would buy them,
but I think the small investment for the large return of low insurance
rates would justify it fairly well.  YMMV, and you should probably look
over the old debate before tracking down that thread.

....

>>I'll be posting a SDB optimised for convoy duties later today. It mounts a
>>600 megajoule laser, and costs an unbelievably small amount. As a
>>non-starship, it can be maintained at a class C starport.
>
>Here is a challange for you Ian.  Design your ships, figure out your costs
>for running such a set up.  Then compare it with the GPP (Gross Planetary
>Product) of the area you are involved with.  Factor in the training costs.
>Factor in the wear and tear on the equipment.  Then, design the operations
>of the space port authority.  Somewhere, I would be willing to bet you, the
>following will occur:

This is a fun experiment.  Note the vast resources which could be poured
into defending a relatively small area?

Military ships in Traveller are very, very inexpensive, compared to TRW,
such that there is a large supply.  Merchant ships are expensive, compared
to TRW, thus they will be defended.  Given that the navy reserves some
weapons to itself, one can bet that they are not going to let many
nuke-armed ships out there.  Anything less is going to be cut to cat food
if they come against a Naval ship, and there are a lot of Naval ships out
there.

Further, the GDPs of even a small planet are just enormous.  100k people,
IIRC, can support an SDB pretty easily.

>Scenario:
>
>Convoy duty has 3 SDB escorting 8 ships about to reach the 50 planetary
>diameter limit.  Ships recieve a mayday from a ship that Jumps in, claiming
>a major emergency (Gasp - under attack by a pirate perhaps?).  Commander,
>by law, must send out a ship.

I would move the entire convoy to within support range while my outrider
checked it out.  I would want to insure that the potential enemy was under
my guns until I knew what was up.  After all, the escort commander is there
to guard the convoy, and will not want to increase risk unduly.  Given that
the whole convoy does not have to stop, merely cease accelerating while the
faster escort ship gives it a look see, it is likely that the whole convoy
can stay in range long enough for a preliminary look.

>    Now we have two ships on escort duty.
>Prior intelligence by the pirates at the starport, have a preplotted convoy
>path.  Mines lie in wait - not in the path of the convoy, but to a tangent.

Err - this is going to be a bit difficult to arrange - unless you mean a
det laser, and thus pirates with naval grade weapons.  You have to be
really close to hit a mine, so this is a fair bit of planning.  You did
this after they filed the flight plan, right, and it is out near the 100d
limit.  Assume for the moment that they have Naval-grade weapons, and a
ship that went out.

That ship better have jumped, or the escort commander is going to be rather
suspicious about why it is still there.

> Upon the convoy reaching the proper location.  A single pirate launches an
>attack, attempting to draw off another ship.  Assuming that one ship is
>drawn off in pursuit, that is when it runs into a minefield.

This strikes me as inappropriate tactics.  I would rather get a hull paint
on the villain, and tell the local SDBs who they are.  Pursue for half an
hour or so, and then return.  Also, that assumes that their guns range you
when yours range them.  (I am willing to give that, because guns are pretty
cheap, and pirates know what they are up against.)

>  Kinda like
>digging a pit trap and then waving a red flag just when the bull is on the
>other side of the trap with the trap between you and the bull...

Any Navy commander who goes haring out of conflict range of a convoy he is
escorting is a fool, and should be cashiered.  Haring out of immediate
contact is fine.

>  In any case, as a final indignity, one or even two ships in the convoy,
>are actually ringers, and upon discovering that there is only one escort -
>fire upon that one escort.  One really nasty variable, might be to have a
>fighter lying in wait...

So, we now have five pirate ships committed (the mine layer, the decoy, the
attacker who also controls the mines, and the two chaps in the convoy), at
least two of which are hauling Naval weaponry.

Pretty impressive firepower, and well within the capabilities of an enemy
government trying to capture a vital cargo.  Unlikely, imho, for an
individual, given that the reward for this is going to be a ship costing a
fifth or less of what the very, very expensive fleet cost.

I would use this scenario, by the way, but would play it as an enemy
action.  Should shake up the players a bit.

>  In other words, wolf pack tactics were designed to deal with convoy
>escorts.  For any man patient enough to deal with the planning required,
>and with the resources required - could conceivably make a pirate raid work.

True, enough resources could make anything work.  My complaint with this
thread is that the T4 rules as written make it terribly cost inefficient,
thus people are not doing it for profit, and have to megarich.

>Question:  Suppose a ship has a commo and radar jammer on.  Ship hits prey.
> Prey ship is taken, and ship is launched on a balastic path at tangent to
>the original path.  Pirate ship with Jammer then goes inert, and also
>launches on balastic trajectory.  No transponders working, no active
>powerplant emmisions, crews are in vacc suits.  Now what?

Watch who is accelerating.  Anyone with drives on is ordered to strike the
drives.  Anyone who does not is a hostile, and might be fired upon.

If the drives are not working, then the ships will both be close enough to
engage, so flip a coin, send a shuttle towards one ship filled with
Marines, and give the Marines time to ascertain the situation.  If they get
ambushed, then the other is probably a victim.  If not, go after the other
one.

Note - your jammer will make you pretty easy to see, so the Navy will be
poring over the records both ships left on planet to try and make a better
guess than a coin toss.  Even though it might take them an hour to get to
you, they still can have investigators working on planet.

Yes, you can defeat that, but you are talking a lot of conspirators, and
this group of people might get higher returns are mercenaries and
terrorists than pirates.

As I said above, piracy may not be totally impossible, but the combination
of the jump rules, the ship costs, the resources, and the known physics and
unknown weapons, it is very, very difficult, and thus likely unprofitable,
without the support of a large governmental body buying your ships and
training your crew.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2183
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 30 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2184



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?
Coronation- done right.
Prison Planet
Another Imported Adventure
Re: Prison Planet
Re: Santa's Sleigh
Happy New Year
Re: Prison Planet
Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97
Re: Prison Planet
Re: Another Imported Adventure
Re: IG is not going under
Re: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?
Horrible realization
Re(2): Making a Business Complaint in California
Re: Art Portfolio
Scientific research in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:52:41 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?

Roderick wrote:

[snip]
>        What I want to know is why this isn't covered in FF&S2.  I know the
>T4 Fifth Prime directive forbids the usual gratituous sex and violence, but
>it says nothing about bad taste.  I think that the Bad Mexican Food Drive
>has loads of potential.

In fact, the second edition of FF&S should be a scratch-n-sniff book.
Wanna know what ozone smells like?  Burning composite laminate?
Fusion-plus exhaust?  BMFD?  It'll all be there.

>        Hm...  but why stop at reindeer?  Just bioengineer batwings onto
>them, plus the above mods, and you could not only get flying pigs, but
>rocket-propelled flying pigs.

I must admit... I have a fair amount of real-world data on domestic
reindeer lying around here and there.  I probably could come up with FF&S
numbers for the fuzzy wittle fings.  You gotta love any animal that thinks
human urine is the ultimate delicacy.

You realize, of course, that the Sayat (lacking pliable carnivores on their
homeworld) have bred special strains of attack reindeer... sort of like a
cross between Bambi and a Rottweiler.  Even the Solomani will be impressed!
<cackle>


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

- --------------------------------------------------------
Kenji Schwarz                      Business Manager
Seattle Institute for Biomedical and Clinical Research
(206) 764 2730                     kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:10:08 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Coronation- done right.

Here is my view of the ubiquitos 90,000 tons battleship we keep seeing in
M:0 products.  This is based on the design published in IS, but improved
using Andy Excellent Spreadsheet (tm).


I.N.V Coronation, Royal class Battleship (FF&S v2)
Designed by Doug Berry, Trans-C Naval Architects

Statistics
Tons: 90,000std       Crew: 2,838             Cargo: 910std
Volume: 1,260,000m3   Passengers H/M:10/20    Cost: 78,181.165 MCr
Mass: 1,222,498t      Passengers Low: 0       Maint Points: 49,381
Dimensions: 345.7m x 69.7m x 69.7m            Troops/Science: 0/0
Tech Level: 12        Size: 10                Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics
Controls: Dynamic, Std automation. 3xFibComp (CM:0.4 CP:2.5). Bridge
Communications: 3xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 2xLaser (1,000AU, 0.0MW)
Sensors: 2xPEMS (14 [50mkm], 0.10MW). 2xAEMS (11 [.16mkm], 0.25MW). 3xLIDAR
(14.5 [500kkm], 0.60MW)
Survey/Science:
ECM: 1xRadio Jammer (500,000km, 0.33MW). 1xArea. Jammer (11)
Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:0.5 (0 at 14,541MW), Act:0, Neu:1, Grav:2

       Weaponry                            Performance
1xSpinal Meson (+4) 2/14-11-9-6   3 Jump (9,000std/pc fuel)
3xMeson Bay (+4) 2/8-5-3-2        1.0/1.1 Maneuver(Thruster:31,500MW)
10xLaser Turret (+4) 1/10-2-0-0   Contra-grav
10xHeavy Laser (+4) 1/12-12-12-9  1,654kph/1,734kph Atmosphere 
30xLaser (+4) 1/7-7-4-2           Cruise:1,241kph/1,301kph)
20xMissile Can 10/50 (Mag:50)     3 Power (/Fus:145,410MW,1.0)
w/360 Command DetLaser1d6/2      28,558.0Fuel (/Scoop:2 /Purif:48)
6.0G12 1000AU                     0/1,632/10/0/50 Accomodations
                                  1 G-Comp
                                  0 ESA
                                 50 Sandcasters ( /AV:36 /Cans:50)
                                  0 Damper Turrets
                                 10 Damper Screen (0MW)
                                 15 Meson Screen (0.36MW)
                                  0 Force Field
                                  0 Gravtics
                                 50 [250] Armor
                                 51 Structure

                          Features
700xAirlock                        10xOrdinary Galley (Cap:250)
200xDecontamination Airlock        5xFull Galley (Cap:85)
2xDocking Umbilical                10xCap Lnchr (45 rdy cap ea.)
2xElectronic Shop (6std ea.)       10xGym (2.5std ea.)
 2xMachine Shop (10std ea.)        3xArmory (5.36std ea.)
10xSickbay (8std ea.)              1xShip's locker (45.00std ea.)
10xPrisoner Capacity (0/5/5)

            Small Craft
10xSpacHgr (95std, 5 hatches) Shuttle Bays
500xJetBay (3std) Lifeboats

             Backups
Drives:
Screens: 1xMeson Screen (PV:7)
Communications: 1xRadio (500km). 1xLaser (5,000km)
Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm]). 1xAEMS (8)
Survey/Science:
ECM:
Power & Fuel: Purification Plant (96hr)

      Crew Details
10xMnvr. 1xElec. 1,122xEngr. 168xMain. 532xGunn. 52xScrn. 40xFlgt.
450xTrps. 395xCmnd. 97xStew. 23xMed.

The Imperial Battleship Coronation (Royal Class, tail number BB-216), is an
example of the Imperium's greatest naval asset.  This 90kton vessel, 345
meters in length, is the most visible symbol of the "iron fist" of the
Imperial Navy.

The Coronation is built around a 100,000-Mj Meson Weapon.  Capable of
destroying many vessels with a single barrage, the SM-173 system gives the
class a devastating primary battery in combat.  The weapon's effective
range of 340,000km is sufficient to engage many enemies before they can
enter their own effective weapons envelope.

Nine smaller (3500-Mj) Meson weapons are mounted in 100-ton bays.  These
weapons, firing in groups of three, allow the ship to engage several
targets with devastating fire.

To support the primary mounts, numerous secondary weapons arrays are
deployed.  Twenty missile bays can launch an impressive volley of 120
standard nuclear det-laser weapons, and keep this rate of fire up for many
hours.  Deadfall/Ground support ordinance can also be carried.

A wide variety of laser weapons are mounted.  One hundred 190-Mj turrets
optimized for close defense and anti-missile duties.  Fifty heavy laser
bays, organized into batteries of five weapons, provide a mid-range
offensive punch.  Lastly, 270 standard 95-Mj laser turrets add flexibility
against targets that might not require military levels of power.  All these
weapons are equipped with fire direction equipment for maximum accuracy
across their theoretical range.

For the Coronation's defense, first look to the 12.5cm superdense hull.
Thick enough to stop most beam weapons from penetrating, the hull is rated
for stresses far beyond what the ship's engines could produce as an extra
measure of safety.  The ship has a powerful suite of primary and back up
meson screens and nuclear dampers.  Finally, the fifty standard sandcaster
mounts add an additional level of protection should the Captain feel it
necessary.

An important part of a ship's defense is making it hard to hit, and for
such a large target, the Coronation does an impressive job of hiding.  With
a Military Black hull coating, IR suppression, and a full suite of jammers,
the class has a surprising low signature across the EM spectrum.

The ship is driven through normal space by a powerful thruster unit.
Sufficient force is generated to allow a constant acceleration of 1.1G.
Interstellar travel is achieved using a top of the line jump drive, giving
a three parsec range.  The vessel is powered by a standard fusion plant
producing just over 145,000 Megawatts.

Care has been taken with the ship's sensors.  Two separate 50mkm PEMS
suites have been installed, both operating as primary sets.  AEMS has a
most effective range of .16mkm.  A LIDAR system, distinct from the target
locking systems found on the weapon mounts, is used for specific target
interrogation.

The Coronation carries ten 95 ton shuttlecraft.  These are berthed two to a
bay.  The shuttles are used for most interface, since the ship is not
equipped for planetary landings.  Five hundred liferafts are set in
jettison bays.  Little more than a set of emergency low berths, a radio set
to broadcast a help message, and a HEPLaR engine designed to kick the raft
clear of the disabled ship and then leave it falling alongside for easy
location, the liferafts are considered important to crew morale.

The 395 officers and 2443 enlisted personnel aboard the Coronation live in
cramped but comfortable quarters.  Double occupancy is the rules for
ratings and junior officers, with only senior Petty Officers and O-3s and
up getting private rooms.  The Captain has a three room suite located
directly above the bridge; the ladder leading from the bridge to the
Captain's quarters is commonly referred to as the "Stairway to Heaven."
The crew has the use of several gymnasiums onboard, as well as numerous
entertainment programs in the ship's computer.  The Navy stresses
continuing education, so informal classes on any variety of subjects might
be held at any time.

The crew eats in either one of the ten large mess halls, or for the
officers, one of the five slightly better appointed wardrooms.  No matter
where you dine, the food is still Imperial Navy.. good, filling, and not
likely to win awards.

The 450 Marines onboard form a reinforced company under the command of a
Force Lieutenant (0-3).  The Marines provide shipboard security, act as
shore police, and are equipped to make combat drops from the Coronation's
ten drop rooms.

The Coronation was laid down in 34 at the Shallner Orbital Shipyard at
Sylea.  She left the yard in 38, and passed trials and was commissioned in
40.  Considered a "series III Royal," she contains many upgrades from the
earlier Royal class Battleships, most notably in electronics.  The
Coronation has a small Flag Bridge and accomodations for an Admiral and his
staff.

Royal class ships are named for the trappings of a monarchy.  Names of the
class include Throne, Crown, Scepter, Orb, Ascension, Monarch, Consort
(referred to in the fleet as "the Royal Bitch" due to a storied history of
troubles), and various historic and legendary monarchs.

Royal BBs are usually deployed in pairs, with extensive escorts and support
vessels.  A typical squadron might have the Coronation (BB-216) teamed with
the Palace (BB-189) at the center of a battlegroup along with 2-3 cruisers,
several destroyers and frigates, possibly a carrier, and a dedicated
intelligence ship.  Royal BatRons are always accompanied by several fleet
couriers.  Royal groups are the preferred escort for large Army convoys.


DESIGN NOTES

I admit it.  I have a thing for long, flared cylinders.  They just make
sense when your main mission is carrying a large spinal mount at TL12.

By redoing the design, I ended up with less than 1000m^3 of waste space.
Every nook and cranny on this puppy is packed.  I figured staterooms on one
small for each command crew, with everybody else sharing double
accommodations.

A few lessons.  Particle accelerators are not efficient.  Compared to the
meson weapons, they are power hungry and short ranged.  A good combo of
lasers and mesons makes the ship pretty hard to beat.

Careful shaving in some areas can save you immensely in others.  By cutting
the armor from the original 400 to 250, my drive efficiency went up, ,
allowing me to shrink the drives, save space on crew, and shrink the power
plant.

The ship costs 78 Billion credits (thousand million to our Brit friends).
These are not considered expendable by any reach.  Much like the Aircraft
Carriers early in the Pacific war, their combat potential might be reigned
in by the concerns of an officer who doesn't want to face the Board of
Inquiry on the loss of the Navy's most powerful ship.

Enjoy!

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 1997 17:26 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Prison Planet

To someone out there with Prison Planet,

Would someone give me the run-down on the Prison Planet
adventure?  I don't have a copy, but wish I did.

Thanks,
Rob

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 1997 17:24 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Another Imported Adventure

Howdy all,

Went home for the holidays and dug up my old Gamma World
book, Top Secret rules, and Basic + Expert D&D Rules...
this stuff is like 15 years old...

Anyway, the introductory adventure to the D&D Expert rules
is the "Island of Dread", where the adventurers stumble
upon an account by "Rory Barbarosa" the swashbuckler, about
the hidden treasures and dangers stashed on a remote chain
of islands.

A low-tech adventure, this would be an interesting break
from the laser battles, as the adventurers (having had
their weapons and armor confiscated, left at the starport
due to law, or through loss of weaponry due to crash,
misunderstanding, robbery, etc) find themselves crewing
a large sailing ship into the unknown on a world which is
blowing its cities to bits.  Our heroes' goal: to find a
lost spaceport in the hinterlands, out far away from
civilization, which just might have a ship they can cobble
back together, to get them off the planet.

This game could be played out over weeks, months, or even
years, altering the circumstances of world disaster to give
as much time as needed.  They could form a small pirate fleet,
raiding villages and/or uniting them under one flag (aka
The Postman), and finally exploring a wild island with mean
beasties to find passage back into space.

So, ja like it?  Eh?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:33:03 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Prison Planet

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

> Would someone give me the run-down on the Prison Planet
> adventure?  I don't have a copy, but wish I did.
>

I have it. Basically, the PC group gets convicted of a crime and sent to
Newcomb, a prison world. The adventure deals with the relationships
between the PCs and the other prisoners, the discovery of a few
mysteries, and, ultimately, the escape attempt. The adventure uses weeks
as the time frame, because things take a long time in prison.

I haven't run my group in it yet, but the minute they get convicted of
something, I'll be hauling it out. If anyone has run it and has any
tips, I'd be interested in hearing about them!


- --
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:05:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh

> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:03:41 GMT
> From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
> 
> On Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:13:14 -0500, you wrote:
> >We are all disgraces to all that is Travelleresque and gearful.  Every last
> >one of us.
> >
> >Not ONE PERSON posted a CSC design of Santa's sleigh to the list.  Much
> >less organized a competition.
> >
> >My humiliation and shame exceed all 100-diameter limits.
> 
> The reason is obvious ... IG left out the Reindeer Propulsion Table in QSDS! How
> much faster does a red nosed reindeer pull the sleigh than a standard one? You
> see, without basic information like that you simply can't do a design ... yet
> *another* example of IG's incompetence?

It is truly heinous that the RPT was left out of both QSDS *and* FFS2.
However, your base assumption above is wrong.  A red-nosed reindeer is
simply an electronics-enhanced version of a standard reindeer, much like
the "wild weasel" variants of the F-111 and other fighter aircraft.  The
"red nose" is really a LVWTAS (Long-Visible-Wavelength Terrain Avoidance
System) which gives the RNR (red-nosed reindeer) its vaunted all-weather
capability.  As a side benefit, the RNR offers extensive ECM and
stealthing, handy to avoid being blown to vapor (or triggering an
unpleasant Christmas Eve exchange of ICBMs) when penetrating the DEW line
at low altitude and Mach 15.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:12:15 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Happy New Year

Sorry I wasn't around to wish everyone happy holidays of various creeds and
stuff.  Happy New Year everybody, and may you have many more and stuff.  I've
been absent from the list recently (and will be again for a few days)...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:06:53 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Prison Planet

I'm sitting here with Adventure 8: Prison Planet in front of me.  What is it
you need to know?  It's a "generic" adventure to be used if/when PC's end up
in prison.  The prison is located on Newcomb in the Solomani Rim, but wouldn't
be too hard to move elsewhere . . .

Lots of event tables, incidents, prisoner profiles, maps of the pitchblende
mines.

Does this help?

Ithklur

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:12:14 -0500
From: "Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97

For those of you who do not subscribe to the daily illuminator from SJG.

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

- ----------
> From: Steve Jackson Games <sjg@pyramid.sjgames.com>
> To:=20
> Subject: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97
> Date: 29 d=E9c. 1997 05:00
>=20
> SJ Games News: Loren Wiseman Joins the Secret Masters!
>=20
>=20
>    We're very excited to report that Loren Wiseman, long-time _Travelle=
r_
>    guru for GDW, is joining the SJ Games staff in January.
>   =20
>    Loren is one of the original Secret Masters of Gaming (it was Loren
>    who popularized the phrase, "Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow"). =
He
>    will be doing a couple of different things for us, including
>    overseeing the _[1]GURPS Traveller_ line of products, as well as art
>    directing and some production.
>   =20
>    Of course, we'll also be taking advantage of his years of experience
>    on the convention trail, so be on the lookout.
>    -- [2]Scott Haring
>=20
> References
>=20
>    1. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps
>    2. http://www.io.com/~sdharing/
>=20
> The Daily Illuminator is also posted on the SJ Games website, at
> http://www.sjgames.com/.  To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
> majordomo@pyramid.sjgames.com with the message "unsubscribe illuminator=
".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:31:48 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Prison Planet

> To someone out there with Prison Planet,
> 
> Would someone give me the run-down on the Prison Planet
> adventure?  I don't have a copy, but wish I did.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 

What do you need to know?  I have this adventure.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:35:51 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Another Imported Adventure

> Howdy all,
> 
> Went home for the holidays and dug up my old Gamma World
> book, Top Secret rules, and Basic + Expert D&D Rules...
> this stuff is like 15 years old...

Do you still play Gamma world?

My website supports that game :
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/index.html

There is also a gammaworld mailing list like this traveller one.

Send email to : gworld@saranxis.ruhr.de
in the body of your email write :
subscribe gworld <your email name>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 00:31:14 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: IG is not going under

>Oh, is this the how many times delayed product that was supposed to be
released
>for (IIRC) GENCON, or was it ORIGINS? Then for "pre-christmas" and now at
some
>unspecified future date? I wouldn't take all these delays as *necessarily*
>meaning that someone at IG wants to a good job this time -- after all, their
>track record would not seem to wholeheartedly support such a proposition,
would
>it now? It it is at least possible that the delays are caused by lack of
money
>(or the staff and time that lack of money represents().
>
>No, there is no evidence to support this -- just like there's no evidence to
>support the quaint idea that IG has suddenly got a clue from somewhere
(probably
>black market, if they have).

Now, my brain doesn't always work as well as I'd like, but I beg to differ.  I
could have sworn that Mr. Miller stated that the product has been delayed
because he doesn't want to release it until its ready?  I'd rather have a late
product that was done right then an on-time product that was rushed to get to
the latest convention myself...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:58:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?

In mail you write:

> I must admit... I have a fair amount of real-world data on domestic
> reindeer lying around here and there.  I probably could come up with FF&S
> numbers for the fuzzy wittle fings.  You gotta love any animal that thinks
> human urine is the ultimate delicacy.

Hey, if *you* had as much trouble getting adequate salt in your diet as
they do, you'd think it was pretty good too.

Besides what's so bad about human urine? It tastes like Gatorade...
<evil grin>

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:40:35 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Horrible realization

We are all disgraces to all that is Travelleresque and gearful.  Every last
one of us.

Not ONE PERSON posted a CSC design of Santa's sleigh to the list.  Much
less organized a competition.

My humiliation and shame exceed all 100-diameter limits.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 02:24:19 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re(2): Making a Business Complaint in California

>I suspect Fred and Andrew would also be interested.  FYI, I'm giving them
>until the end of next week to at least phone me with an expanation. 
>Otherwise the official complaint gets made (for whatever good it does). 
>I'll be notifying VISA on Monday that I will be disputing the charges.

  I don't know what NZ or Canada are like on these two holiday weeks,
but asking an office-based (as opposed to a store-based) company to
do ANYTHING important on the weeks containing Christmas and New Years
is nearly futile. Same for most government offices in the US. For most
of the people you want to talk to, this coming Friday (Jan 2, 1998)
might not even be a work day. This Thursday certainly won't be.

 To Imperium Games I can only say one thing. In the computer retail
chain I work for we have a phrase that moves mountains at HQ. "Customer
Service Issue."  Among the members of this list IG has several Customer
Service Issues brewing and worsening as we speak. Do something about
them, and do it fast and without doubletalk. Learn how to avoid
further Customer Service Issues in the process, and IG will be a far
better company for the experience.

Harrumph.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:32:44 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Art Portfolio

>- -> This has also been my biggest complaint about T4 (and TNE).  These
>are games and games should look exciting and fun.  You don't need color
>art to make a pretty book (look at Heavy gear for an example

I agree; looks count. But content counts also and the two are not mutually
exclusive. Heavy Gear does do a good job; the art is consistent, relevant,
and pretty. Every character, gear, and spaceship is illustrated and the
illustrations actually match the descriptions given in the text.

>I'd rather have useable stuff than art in my RPG-books!

I'd rather have usable art than unusable text in my books. Non-technical
books in general, and games in particular, have this annoying tendency of
using graphics as some kind of 'filler' for blank pages. This is endemic in
T4, with one exception. FF&S is especially bad; it introduces all kinds of
new objects like passive arrays, sockets, hardpoints, grapples, weapon
mounts, beam pointers, and on and on and on, all *without a single picture*
of any one of these things! My players are always asking me for what things
look like, and most rules give me no help in this regard. I have also never
seen a Traveller deck plan that is of any use in visualizing the appearance
of a ship.

The one exception I mentioned is Emperor's Arsenal. Every weapon in this
book is illustrated right beside its description, usually depicted in
normal operation with a person or vehicle nearby for scale. EA is the
best-designed Traveller book I have ever seen.

I have noticed that the Star Wars RPG has a high proportion of useful
illustrations. Perhaps this is because the game is based on a visual medium
and has lots of high-quality source material to draw on.

>That's actually one of the reasons i like gurps, because these text-
>wastelands are usually filled to the brim with useable gaming
>material. There is no "filler", just content. The pics aren't that
>important, the content is!

There is no direct text=useful, art=useless correlation. There are plenty
of RPG rules I have never used and consider a waste of printing. Proper
illustrations will improve a GM's understanding and players' enjoyment
unmeasurably. Unfortunately, we don't get "proper illustrations", we get
irrelevant filler, and the game suffers for it. I have seen Traveller
campaigns where fire teams exchange ranged combat inside staterooms, drive
vehicles through starship corridors, carry bridge workstations around, and
hip-fire autocannons, all because the GM and players have no idea what
these things look like.

Look at a typical medical or engineering textbook; they are filled with
illustrations. In these cases the pics *are* the content, not some way of
padding the page count. As long as people keep thinking pictures aren't
important, we are going to keep getting useless illustrations.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:48:22
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: Scientific research in Traveller

Here is a short piece on scientific research/invention in Traveller. I'd
like to hear some ideas on it and then I'll put the revised text on my
(almsot complete) Traveller Page.

As usual, please remember that I read the Digest, so any answer from me
will be a little delayed.
If you want to contact me directly, please use the following address:
mc4799@mclink.it


........... Scientific Research  ....

Here are some guidelines for introducing scientific research and other
complex projects in your Traveller games. I lifted many ideas, concepts
and mechanics from the relevant portion of the Ringworld RPG ((C) 1984
Chaosium Inc.)

For convenience any complex task should be subdivided in a sequence of
smaller tasks which must be completed by the partecipants. The actual
subdivision should be decided by the Referee, but some input from the
players could be helpful.

The referee should prepare a list of the steps required to complete a
given project, noting how long they will take, the step type (see
below), task difficulty and any equipment required (if any).
Time to complete the task is described as an amount of hours dedicated
to the task. This is elapsed time, and will not vary with adding more
people to it (except through exceptional success, or during lab research
see below).
People who take part in the project must work on it for periods of no
less than 2 and no more then 10 hours in a given 24 hours period.
The time for each step will be secretly generated and recorded by the
referee. The referee may roll again and give the result to the players
as an extimate time for the task.

For each step in the project, the Referee will briefly describe what the
step requires and will ask a task roll for every character taking part
in the project.
If at least one of the partecipants obtains a success, the task is
successful and the step ends after the time originally defined.
If no one succeeds, the next step will not begin. The current step may
be repeated (the Referee will roll again to determine how long it will
take the next time).
If one or more of the partecipants roll a special success, the time
required is shortened by 10% or (at referee's discretion) the
difficulty, cost or other parameters of the following step(s) are reduced.
If one or more of the partecipants roll a special failure, the step is
invalidated and must be repeated (optionally with a different degree of
difficulty), time or cost is doubled, or the difficulty of the next step
is increased.
This way, is generally a bad idea to use a lot of poorly skilled
assistants, because you risk to obtain disastrous results (remember that
anyone taking part rolls, and *all* the effects are cumulative: your
chief researcher may roll a special success and reduce time to complete
the step and *then* a goofy assistant may invalidate the process by
rolling a special failure).

Different types of research.

Theoretical Research.
This represent the creation of new theories, formulation of laws or
corollaries, or the application of techniques and knowledge from another
branch of science.
Time to complete a step: 3d6 x 20 hours.
Prerequisite: none. A computer may reduce the time by 1d3 x 10%.
Task difficulty: Difficult to Impossible. For this kind of research
apply the rules for Uncertain Tasks.

Field Research.
Collection of first hand data on a given subject. This may vary from
interviewing subjects for sociological data to collecting samples from
soil or simple observation and recording of natural phenomenons.
If at all possible this kind of research should be played out in full,
allowing for chance encounters, low-key equipment failures and other
interesting scenes.
Time to complete a step: Depends on the type of data to collect. Varies
from 3d6 x 20 hours for simpler data collection or full time observation
up to 3d6 x 60 hours for biological or sociological sampling.
Prerequisites: minimal data collecting tools suitable for the task (i.e.
anything from pen and paper to cameras and/or probes or samplers). Access to
a computer may help organizing, indexing and classifying the results
and will result in a time reduction of 1d2 x 10%.
Task Difficulty: From Easy to Difficult.

Laboratory Research.
Either controlled experiments to prove a theory or extensive analysis of
some subject.
Time to complete a step: Varies a lot with the kind of experiments
involved. Routine analysis of a soil sample, for example, should require
no more then 1d6 hours, while cloning experiments could require 1d6
months while the clone develops. In less extreme cases use 3d6 x 20
hours as a general guideline.
Labs may be "used" for 20 hours in any 24 hours period (the rest of the
time is taken by general maintenance of the equipment), so more then a
group of people may work in shifts on the same problem.
Prerequisites: An appropriate lab for the experiments.
Task Difficulty: From Easy to Impossible.

Library Research.
Extraction of already existing knowledge from the body of works on a
given subject. In an extensively computerized environment time to find
relevant texts may be quite short, but you still need to read the
stuff which you consider vital for the task at hand.
Time to complete a step: With computer indexed stuff, 3d6 x 10 hours.
Libraries without electronical indexing systems will require double the
time.
Prerequisites: Access to an appropriate library; either a physical place
or an electronic reference for the problem at hand.
Task Difficulty: From Easy to Difficult.



Laboratories.
Labs cost 200000 cr plus 100000 cr per project that can be performed
over the first one, plus 50000 cr per researcher over the first one.
Each lab may be used for tasks requiring a skill from the Sciences or
Technical clusters. Any additional skill requires an additional cost of
20000 cr.
Example: Regina Janus wants to equip a new lab for Archeology and
Geology research. The lab will be able to host three independent batches
of experiments, each conducted by a different scientist. Cost:
200000(base) + 200000(two extra experiments) + 100000(2 extra
researchers) + 20000 (for the Geological tests). Final result: 520000.


Sample research project.

In the _Mercy Mission_ adventure (White Dwarf issue ...), a team of
scientists must discover the cause for an odd disease which has recently
struck a village of TL-2 primitives on a Red Zone planet.
Here is an example on how to organize the research according to the
guidelines given before.

(1) Field Research
General aerial recognition of the village and surrounding area.
Time: 4 hours. Roleplay it and require Average Air Raft and Sensor rolls from
the PCs.
(2) Field Research
Sampling of soil and biomass in areas distant from the village.
Time 3d6 x 2 hours. Average, Biology.
(3) Field Research
Sampling near the village. To be conducted at night, without the
primitives permission. Roleplay it.
(4) Lab Research.
Integration and extensive analysis of the samples.
Difficult. 3d6x6 hours. Biology and Chemistry.
(5) Theoretical Research.
Formulation of a theory about the disease. Impossible Medical or Biology
roll.

In the meantime another group of scientists can study the primitives in
order to discover more about their social structure and gain hints which
will prove useful for the main research.

(1) Field Research.
Prolonged study of the village with remotely operated drones, long
distance microphones and cameras.
Time: 3d6 x 10 hours. Average, History / Education.
(2) Field Research.
Examination of the totems and other sacred places of the village (Roleplay
it).
Requires Perception and other skill rolls.
(3) Library Research.
Comparing the totem shape with various technical data in order to
discover is original shape and function.
Difficult, Engineering. 3d6x10 hours. If succesfull, step 5 of the
biological project becomes Difficult instead of Impossible.

Bibliography:
Larry Niven's Ringworld RPG (Chaosium, 1984)
The Highest Wisdom; A look at science and scientists in Traveller
by Marcus Rowland (Imagine Issue 18, Sept. 84)
_Mercy Mission_ by Simon Lewis, (White Dwarf Issue 82)







__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2184
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 30 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 2185



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

California Department of Consumer Affairs
Call for NPC's
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180
Re: Realictic space battles / ships
Re: Making a Business Complaint in California
Exciting Christmas & The Great Mouse Massacre
Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97
GURPS Traveller
Re: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?
Re: More info for the Aramis Subsector
Scaling up grapples?
Traveller Art
Re: Santa's Sleigh
Re: Feedback
Re: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?
Re: Baffled
Re:Horrible realization
Realistic space battles / ships
Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 15:14:52 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: California Department of Consumer Affairs

Ok, Fred, Andrew, and anyone else who needs this info:

California Department of Consumer Affairs
(800) 344-9940

This is probably a recording that will point you in the right direction.

Nail 'em.  Good Luck.

Ithklur

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:30:01 -0000
From: "Justin Durkan" <jdurkan@iol.ie>
Subject: Call for NPC's

Hi Folks,

I posted a message a few weeks ago regarding dealing with munchkin players
and a healthy thread enused. Thanks again to all who replied. The whole
discusssion was very helpful and really helped to get the juices flowing. I
now have the beginings of a campaign well under way. It is entitled
"Brothers behind the Claw" and is about a secret society operating within
the Psi Insts. The society is very militant and is based, in part, around
the idea of the Fascist Groups of the earlier part of this centuary. It's
okay people, they're the bad guys. The society is a shallow hierarchy made
up of "Eyes", "Seers", "High Seers" and a "Grand Seer". The "Eyes" are the
field agents, "Seers" are their commanders, "High Seers" are regional
organisers, while the "Grand Seer" is a Duke. There is also the functional
arm made up of seven "Lights".

The society has infiltrated the Imperial government within the Spinward
Marches. This all happens just before The Assassination and that event will
take place as a background. Archduke Norris will be a big player within the
campaign but will not actually communicate with the player party as he will
be rather busy dealing with the rebellion and the machinations of this
secret society (who naturally with take advantage of the chaos).

Early on the players come across a list of names that an agent (a Seer) has
hidden away. This is a hit list. The party have to warn, protect, rescue
etc. the members of this list. What I need now is useful names and
occupations for this list.

I'm thinking military high-ups who think there's something going on but
don't know what; the demoted ploiceman who knows whats going on but can't
prove anything, the football player whose college buddy mentioned something
before dropping out, etc.

The format of the NPC data would be the standard UPP plus a little note
about what drives the guy/gal/git and where they would fit into the plot.

I'm sure that there are many of the TMLers with large collections of NPC's
or even players who would be likely candidates.

Thanks in advance
/Justin Durkan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:56:03 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2180

Scott Ellsworth wrote:

>
>At 12:25 AM 12/28/97 -0500, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>
>Note - the great piracy debate took place a few month ago, and might be
>worth a read for anyone who was not involved at the time.

[snip]


	Just four words:

	Famille Spofulam.

	Mouse Blender.

	That is all I have to say on the Piracy debate, thank you.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:22:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Realictic space battles / ships

wkdugan@ix.netcom.com (Bill Dugan) writes:

> On 29 Dec 1997 15:32:40 GMT, kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu (Isaac Kuo) wrote:
>
> snip
>
>>A potentially more serious problem is the heat absorbed from
>>sunlight (there's a _lot_ more of this than human generated heat in
>>our little neighborhood).  Really, the best way to deal with the
>>heat from sunlight is to not absorb it in the first place.  An
>>elongated shape with an angled mirror facing the sun (shading the
>>rest of the ship) will accomplish this, at the cost of being
>>extremely visible in a narrow cone in the direction the sunlight
>>is reflected.
>
> Rather than trying to be totally undetectable, it might be easier to
> pretend to be some random piece of debris. Cover your ship with a thin
> layer of suitable material, and let it absorb and radiate like an
> asteroid fragment.

The trouble with this is that using *any* power (including normal human
metabolism) means that you have to radiate extra heat. A natural body
is radiating exactly as much energy as it is receiving. But you are
producing *extra* energy, and it has to be radiated as well. 

The smaller your surface area, the bigger the problem. At 1 AU, natural
bodies are radiating (IIRC) 1kW/m^2. So to stay within 10% of this
you'd have to have 10,000 m^2 of surface for every megawatt of power
generated. To stay within 1% (more likely for "stealth") you'd need
100,000. And you'd need 1 m^2 to 10 m^2 per crew member for the heat
*they* produce.

That sort of thing adds up *rapidly*.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:21:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Making a Business Complaint in California

   Let's try that again, sans the funky formatting that I accidentially
picked up when I did a cut and paste directly from the Web site I found the
information... 

Rob Prior writes:

>Could some kind soul please post the postal address of the California
>Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (of whatever the
>California equivalent is)?  I want to be ready to escalate my
>complaints if Imperium Games doesn't explain why they haven't shipped
>me the products I've paid for.

   Once again, the danger of having a librarian on this list with
Internet access is borne out...

   I'm posting the requested information here to save time (I'm figuring
there will be more than a few people who will want it).

California

State Offices
Marjorie Berte, Director
California Department of Consumer Affairs
400 R Street, Suite 3000
Sacramento, CA 95814
916-445-4465
TDD: 916-322-1700
Toll free in CA: 800-952-5200

Office of Attorney General
Public Inquiry Unit
P.O. Box 944255
Sacramento, CA 94244-2550
916-322-3360
TDD: 916-324-5564
Toll free in CA: 800-952-5225

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:50:07 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Exciting Christmas & The Great Mouse Massacre

I did something similar to Roderick's Amazing Exploding Turkey - mine was
the Incredible Flamethrowing Hamburger (this was a few weeks ago and
nothing to do with Christmas). Unwisely picking a burger out of the grill
pan (still under the electric grill) using oven gloves because I'm too lazy
for my own good, I sort of squeezed it & it sort of vented hot fat into the
grill elements. The resulting jet of flame was rather impressive.

(gives you some idea of what you're eating, though, doesn't it?)

There was a guy aboard a British battleship at the turn of the century who
died of eating Christmas pudding. Apparently he grabbed a bit as that
particular mess lined up for the Captain's inspection. With nothing else
for it, he swallowed his prize (which was still in the brandy & flames
stage) just as Mr Captain entered the mess. The unfortunate rating died of
burns to his innards a day or two later.

(so, in the words of Garfield: Never Eat Anything That's On Fire)

About this mouse-blender ... how big are they? Are they portable? A friend
of mine needed a sort of paste made of mouse brains for an experiment one
time (I dunno why). He tells me that the 'spanner and yank' method was too
slow for that preparation - the brains had to be very fresh. Apparently if
you swing the mouse by the tail and smack it in a hard bench, that's about
as quick as you can get for bulk mouse-murder. (A colleague then does the
spoon work, I'm told).


Just thought I'd share that....

MJD.
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:33:00 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97

I think Dan's post pretty much says it al.

Anybody out there from Austin or vcty? I have a couple of Questions:

1) What's the best Szechuan restaurant in town? Northern Italian? I assume
getting good BBQ ribs in Texas is like getting good brats in Milwaukee (a no-
brainer) -- is this true?
2) Ditto for best Friendly Local Game Store (tm) Brand hobby shop. Bear in
mind that I am a lead-pusher for recreation -- anybody down there remember
Uncle Duke?
3) There is no third question yet. 

No 30,

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:38:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: GURPS Traveller

There is now an official SJG's GURPS Traveller Web site.  The address is:

   http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/index.html

   Not a lot of information up yet, but I would imagine that as things
develop, this would be the place to check.  BTW, the list price for the
basic sourcebook is going to be US$17.95 (naturally you would also have to
buy the basic rulebook at around US$30.00 for it to be of use in playing GURPS).

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:57:21 -0600
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?

Kenji wrote:

>
>Roderick wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>        What I want to know is why this isn't covered in FF&S2.  I know the
>>T4 Fifth Prime directive forbids the usual gratituous sex and violence, but
>>it says nothing about bad taste.  I think that the Bad Mexican Food Drive
>>has loads of potential.
>
>In fact, the second edition of FF&S should be a scratch-n-sniff book.
>Wanna know what ozone smells like?  Burning composite laminate?
>Fusion-plus exhaust?  BMFD?  It'll all be there.
>


	Ahhh... scratch and sniff.  Careful: you're dating yourself here :).


>>        Hm...  but why stop at reindeer?  Just bioengineer batwings onto
>>them, plus the above mods, and you could not only get flying pigs, but
>>rocket-propelled flying pigs.
>
>I must admit... I have a fair amount of real-world data on domestic
>reindeer lying around here and there.  I probably could come up with FF&S
>numbers for the fuzzy wittle fings.  You gotta love any animal that thinks
>human urine is the ultimate delicacy.
>


	Amazing.  The depth and breadth of this list never ceases to amaze
me.  Astronomers, military types, larval lawyers, amateur reindeerologists
:).


>You realize, of course, that the Sayat (lacking pliable carnivores on their
>homeworld) have bred special strains of attack reindeer... sort of like a
>cross between Bambi and a Rottweiler.  Even the Solomani will be impressed!
><cackle>
>

	Impressed?  I think they'd start eyeing each other nervously and
begin backing towards the nearest exits :).  Do they have tracking
reindeer?  Lap reindeer?  Weiner and poodle reindeer?




Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:12:05 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: More info for the Aramis Subsector

>Soon I am planning to run the Traveller Adventure and I was wonder if anyone
>has additional info for the Armais Subsector. Extended system and planetary
>info would be most appreicated, though I will gladly take anything else.

I have a few extended system charts randomly generated using Metator (Rob
Prior's Fabulous Macintosh App found at Joe Heck's site;
http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/archive/software/ look for
"Metator").  If you have a Mac, get his program and I'll send you the data
files I have.  If not, I'll send you (and any other requestors) the output
in html of the system data only (which is the only thing that "exports"
successfully) via private email as an attachment, if you send a request to
the address below.  I have files for Nasemin, Junidy, Fenetmen, Rugbird,
and Aramanx.  I will be generating others as needed in the future.

If you are Java 3.0 capable you may want to contact Jo Grant via this list
for the program he is working on (still?) to do many of the same things,
plus allow intersystem navigation in the same app.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:18:16 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Scaling up grapples?

>>I think we need to come up with some rules for pylons or struts for
>>external features like Battle Riders.
>
>I'd say that they'd be like very large external grapples (like the ones for
>small craft). I'd say you could proportionally scale up the stats to deal
>with larger craft.

This is a good idea, but I don't think one can simply scale up the stats
proportionally. Because of the dreaded square-cube rule, larger grapples
will need to be exponentially larger than small grapples. The same is true
of starship hulls, or any load-bearing structure for that matter. This
seems to be handled in hull construction by the Structure Factor in the
Hull table from FF&S. Perhaps increasing the grapple stats by the structure
factor of the hull it is to grapple would work.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:23:15 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Traveller Art

>   My personal preference would probably go toward some really high
>quality, Traveller related Anime-style pics.  There is some stuff out
>there that is truly amazing.

Agreed, there is a lot of high-quality anime-style art out there. However,
I do not think this would be a good style for Traveller to use. Anime is a
separate science fiction genre with its own technology and storylines. A
steriotypical anime storyline would include features like teenaged
motorcyclists and rock singers inside gigantic anthopomorphic robots
attacking fleets of variable-geometry alien spaceships at visual ranges
with guitar riffs and building-sized handguns, who respond with swarms of
zig-zagging contact-detonation missiles. An interesting genre, to be sure,
but not Traveller.

Moreover, there are already real anime-style RPGs on the market with this
kind of art and background. Frankly I think the games appeal to a different
market.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:13:24 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh

Hmmmm, Someone wrote;
>>other reindeer are also representative of specific ship's sub-systems
>>(with their
>>names being mnemonics for function, perhaps).
>
>   Dasher, Dancer, Donner, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, and Blitzen.
>There seem to be an awful lot of 'D's there...someone else want to take
>a crack at it?

Dasher; High Speed Manuver Drive

Dancer; Evasion subsystem

Prancer; "Jump" Drive (oooh, that hurts)

Vixen; Hmm, Crew entertainment?  no no, Santa's not into that stuff,
Perhaps Communications...

Comet; Oort Cloud Refueling.

Cupid; Long Range disabling attack weapon.  (Cupid's Longbow Mk.2?)

Donner; ECM Suite (like to 'don' a different outfit - you know, cloaking.)

Blitzen; Attack Systems, corruption of "Blitz 'em"

And of course Rudolph as sensor suite.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:07:39 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Feedback

     <Boulton: Basically the stuff that *was* in it (and Challange, and the
original JTAS): fiction, new equipment/vehicles, scenarios, planet write-ups,
errata...but for god's sake make sure the editor knows Traveller this time (no
more instant FTL communication thank you very much).> What I'm looking at
doing is at least something similar to the old JTAS (but maybe more theme
oriented, at least for 27/28), but I was wondering if anybody else had any
other ideas. And no, no FTL comm. This will be done by Traveller fans.


    <Boulton: What we were promised - discount, magazine, also .maybe the
Imperial title/land grant idea that was bounced around, or the chance to
playtest future products.> Can you refresh my memory on the Imperial title/
landgrant idea (I vaguely remember it, just not the details)?
     Currently my vague thoughts were, the newsletter, access to con
adventures
on the web site (and maybe the old ones). Some reward for members running
games at cons for new players (I was thinking of the Title/Land grant for that
as a possibility, or membership, or a free product). Maybe access to
players/GMs over the country.


    <Douglas: What if you were offered the editorship?  Seriously.  Do you
think that you could do a quarterly magazine?> This might end up being a
joint deal.....




Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:57:58 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: FF&S2 stats for BMFD?

Roderick wrote:

>        Ahhh... scratch and sniff.  Careful: you're dating yourself here :).

That's sick and wrong... oh.  Chronologically.  Yeah, I suppose so.

>>>        Hm...  but why stop at reindeer?  Just bioengineer batwings onto
>>>them, plus the above mods, and you could not only get flying pigs, but
>>>rocket-propelled flying pigs.
>>
>>I must admit... I have a fair amount of real-world data on domestic
>>reindeer lying around here and there.  I probably could come up with FF&S
>>numbers for the fuzzy wittle fings.  You gotta love any animal that thinks
>>human urine is the ultimate delicacy.
>>
>
>
>        Amazing.  The depth and breadth of this list never ceases to amaze
>me.  Astronomers, military types, larval lawyers, amateur reindeerologists
>:).

Actually, at best I'm only an armchair reindeerologist.

(You really shouldn't go around reinforcing the public's already dim view
of lawyer lifecycles like that, you know.)

>>You realize, of course, that the Sayat (lacking pliable carnivores on their
>>homeworld) have bred special strains of attack reindeer... sort of like a
>>cross between Bambi and a Rottweiler.  Even the Solomani will be impressed!
>><cackle>
>>
>        Impressed?  I think they'd start eyeing each other nervously and
>begin backing towards the nearest exits :).  Do they have tracking
>reindeer?  Lap reindeer?  Weiner and poodle reindeer?

Naturally.  And pointers and retrievers and all that, too.  The most
disturbing ones are those that were bred to chase rats into burrows.  No
antlers on those, of course.

Hm... I might actually try to write this up.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:15:26 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Baffled

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:
>To my eye [Foss art] does fit with Traveller. It is the sytle of art that
was 
>common on the SF books I read when I first started playing Traveller

That's probably a non-US phenomenon; I don't recall Foss artwork being
a significant presence on SF covers here in the USA at the time.  There are
a lot of SF illustrators that, to me, have "Traveller" style, but Foss
isn't one of them.  Personally, if I'd had to pick one artist and use his
off-the-shelf images to illustrate Traveller stuff, I would have called
Frank Kelly Freas first (and the art would be a lot more interesting to look 
at, too!).

My second choice would have been Michael Whelan, and Chris Foss would have
been somewhere underneath Darrel Sweet on my preference list.  I've been
known to avoid buying books simply because they have Darrel Sweet covers.
On the flipside, I own several books that I've purchased just because I
liked the Freas painting on the cover (and to date, I haven't been 
dissapointed with the stuff inside a Freas-illustrated book, either).

>I have tried to recreate the FFS error by importing the text into pagemaker,
>freehand, illustrator, quarkXpress as word, rtf, and plain text and I just
>can't do it. That error still leaves me baffled (I suspect a font conversion
>problem).

I suspect a font conversion problem as well, but I don't know how IG managed
to do it.  At the start of writing for FF&S, we gave IG a "test" Word
document 
with the equations produced in the Microsoft Equation Editor.  IG reported
"no 
problems" converting this file for printing, so we delivered the final
document in the same format (we used the "test" document as a Word template 
and wrote the rest of the book using it).

I don't know if this means they didn't actually do the test the first time,
or they managed to mess something up that worked properly the first time.

As an aside, FF&S was written with the tables and equations integrated
with the text, so that it would be possible to proceed through the design
sequences without having to flip pages.  Putting them all at the end of the
book was done in the final copy, at the request of IG ("to make it easier
to use"), by making two copies of the document, and deleting all the text
out of one, and deleting all the equations and tables out of the other.


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:18:24 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re:Horrible realization

Roderick wrote:

>        Hey.  I have an excuse.  I was busy.  not only did we have the
>Montreal branch of my girlfriend's family over (14 people), but I also
>nearly managed to burn my face off cooking the turkey.

I -- _we_ -- expect nothing less from the progenitor of Famille Spofulam.

There's a Mongolian dish... well, food construct, let's call it... called
"boodog", a sort of haggis.  It used to be boiled or thrown in the fire to
cook; nowadays, people just use blowtorches.  This is another example of
how and why we Solomani are going to kick Vilani butt in the next century.
We're not afraid of food OR technology.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:16:07 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Realistic space battles / ships

> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
> wkdugan@ix.netcom.com (Bill Dugan) writes:
> 
> > On 29 Dec 1997 15:32:40 GMT, kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu (Isaac Kuo) wrote:
> >
> > snip
> >

> >>A potentially more serious problem is the heat absorbed from
> >>sunlight (there's a _lot_ more of this than human generated heat in
> >>our little neighborhood).  Really, the best way to deal with the
> >>heat from sunlight is to not absorb it in the first place.  An
> >>elongated shape with an angled mirror facing the sun (shading the
> >>rest of the ship) will accomplish this, at the cost of being
> >>extremely visible in a narrow cone in the direction the sunlight
> >>is reflected.
> >
> > Rather than trying to be totally undetectable, it might be easier to
> > pretend to be some random piece of debris. Cover your ship with a thin
> > layer of suitable material, and let it absorb and radiate like an
> > asteroid fragment.

Why not start out as an asteroid?  Asteroid hulls are nothing new (c.f.: 
Classic Traveller).
 
> The trouble with this is that using *any* power (including normal human
> metabolism) means that you have to radiate extra heat. A natural body
> is radiating exactly as much energy as it is receiving. But you are
> producing *extra* energy, and it has to be radiated as well.
>
> The smaller your surface area, the bigger the problem. At 1 AU, natural
> bodies are radiating (IIRC) 1kW/m^2. So to stay within 10% of this
> you'd have to have 10,000 m^2 of surface for every megawatt of power
> generated. To stay within 1% (more likely for "stealth") you'd need
> 100,000. And you'd need 1 m^2 to 10 m^2 per crew member for the heat
> *they* produce.
> 
> That sort of thing adds up *rapidly*.

Why not use a contraption like the Spacesuit Option, Heat Absorber (SCS p
14)?  If such a device were scaled up and if we were to include Scale
Efficiency (FF&S + see the note below) we would have the ability to absorb
some serious Mw/turn of heat by pumping it into blocks of ice.  Adding
additional ice capacity would increase the time spans at each level of
reduced detectability, but not increase the amount of heat/turn that could
be absorbed.  The following table was made assuming that the unit described
in SCS was as small as they could be made.

Absorber Systems	
Cumet	Heat/turn
/Mass	Absorbed		Cost
000.005	00000.20 Mw	           3,000 cr.
000.050	00002.42 Mw	         30,000 cr.
000.500	00026.62 Mw	       300,000 cr.
005.000	00292.82 Mw	    3,000,000 cr.
050.000	03221.02 Mw	  30,000,000 cr.
500.000	35431.22 Mw	300,000,000 cr.

Hmmm, I wonder what the Pirates could make of a thing like this?  Let's say
you took a Mercenary Cruiser for example.  T4 p 102 has that as an 800 Td
unsreamlined vessel with a Power Plant Rating of 3.  That means it has a
power output of 4800 Mw.  The only unstreamlined 800 Td hull in the book
has a surface area of 2096 square meters, so it would absorb 2096 / 4 x 1
kW = .524 Mw of heat from sun light (assuming a perfect black body and that
Shadow's figures are correct).  And finally our proposed Pirate Cruiser has
a crew of up to 70 so that's another 70 x .005 Mw = .35 Mw.  That brings us
to a grand total of 4800.874 Mw of energy.  This will require 4800.874 /
3221.02 x 50 = 74.52412589801 cumet of volume.  If we round that up to
74.525, we will be able to hide the heat signatures of an additional 11.262
crew or prisoners, and everyone knows what prisoners can be worth!  Can
anyone say ransom? ;-)
 
The cost to mount such a cloaking device would be 30 x 74.525 / 50 = 
44.715 Mcr. a mere  15.67% of the original cost of the vessel.  OTOH
consider that while running passive sensors, this installation would make
your ship virtually invisible.  Even running at full blast.  And best of
all, you won't have to "uncloak" to fire your weapons.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:25:55 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97

Forwarded your post to a buddy of mine in California.  He may or may not
respond.  If he does, he will know the answer.

Ever had bad brads in Milwaukee?  How about so so brats?  You get the idea.

- ----------
> From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
> To: TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97
> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 10:33 AM
> 
> I think Dan's post pretty much says it al.
> 
> Anybody out there from Austin or vcty? I have a couple of Questions:
> 
> 1) What's the best Szechuan restaurant in town? Northern Italian? I
assume
> getting good BBQ ribs in Texas is like getting good brats in Milwaukee (a
no-
> brainer) -- is this true?
> 2) Ditto for best Friendly Local Game Store (tm) Brand hobby shop. Bear
in
> mind that I am a lead-pusher for recreation -- anybody down there
remember
> Uncle Duke?
> 3) There is no third question yet. 
> 
> No 30,
> 
> Loren Wiseman
> 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2185
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 31 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2186



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Another Imported Adventure
Cylons in TNE
Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?
Re: Another Imported Adventure
Re: Art Portfolio
GURPS Traveller
Re: Realistic space battles / ships
(no subject)
Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance
Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97
Uncle Duke
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97
Re: Santa's Sleigh
Realistic space battles / ships
Re:  Traveller promotion ideas and Team Traveller?
Re:FAQ update

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:37:45 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Another Imported Adventure

"Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca> said:


>Subject: Another Imported Adventure

>

>

>Went home for the holidays and dug up my old Gamma World

>book, Top Secret rules, and Basic + Expert D&D Rules...

>this stuff is like 15 years old...

>

  Speaking of Gamma World, has anyone here looked at (or even
SEEN) the Amazing Engine version, "Metamorphosis Alpha to Omega"?
I never saw this new, and only stumbled across a used one this
week. Something about a ship 20km long gets my attention :)

  Unlike most of the previous editions of TSRs "mutants" game,
this one is formatted to be as complete as possible in one volume
(given the nature of the Amazine Engine line), so it actually has
a fair amount of material on running campaings in the setting. It
also provides enough information for playing the Warden's endgame.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:43:41 EST
From: VargrA8C7A <VargrA8C7A@aol.com>
Subject: Cylons in TNE

  Greetings All,
I'm about to introduce the Cylon Empire into my Traveller TNE game.  After
a fire fight with strange fighters the PCs will crash land on a desert planet.
I'm actually using TSR's Darksun(with modifications of course) for the planet.
Two Cylon fighters will also crash land on the planet and persue the players.
There will be six Cylon Centurions and there's eight PCs. Of which only four
have combat experience.  Four are techs.  There is lots of hidden technology
on the planet, kind of like someone's post of Island of Dread.  Has anyone
ever
made stats for Cylons or their weapons, ships, etc.  If so please post them or
send them to me at VargrA8C7A@aol.com, as it would most appreciated.
                    Thanks,
                           Barker the Vargr Marine
Also I could use the stats for T4 of the same things.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:14:01 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?

Yes, that's four different subjects.  I'm trying to do several
things at once; why shouldn't my email?

(1) Freelance Traveller redesign assistance.

I've temporarily halted work on the posted Freelance Traveller; I
decided that it needs a new look, and possibly a new structure.
The problem I'm having is that I can't decide exactly what I
want; therefore, I'm looking for ideas from a bunch of very
creative and imaginative folks.  Stop looking around and behind
you; I'm talking about _you_.  Many of you have visited FT; what
I'd like now is for some serious constructive criticism - how can
I make the site better?  Please note that I have placed the
following technical restrictions on what I'm willing to
incorporate:

(a) I'd like to get away from the black background.  The problem
with black backgrounds is that it takes light text to be readable
- - and if someone decides to print the page to a color inkjet (the
most common type of printer in home use at present), it's going
to look disgusting at best, unreadable at worst.

(b) Much as I like some of the most recent technical innovations,
such as style sheets and DHTML, I can't in good conscience do
things that depend on them.  I tend to like to make pages that
can be viewed by as wide a range of browsers as possible; but
even if I limit myself to Netscape and Internet Explorer, there
are enough old versions of each to make it impractical to assume
that they all support the latest technologies.  I'm willing to
limit my "market" to NS and IE, but that would have to be NS3 and
IE3 as acceptable minima, not 4.  That doesn't rule CSS or DHTML
out entirely; it just says that I expect to have the page look
acceptable in the older browsers, even if I use the newer
capabilities (which they will ignore).

(c) I would prefer to avoid being heavy on graphics or embedded
files, including Java applets.  My ISP's home page is
chock-a-block with graphics and animations and Java applets; the
damn thing takes an unconscionably long time to load over a 28.8
connection.  The whole world ain't on 56K or better, yet.  Again,
that doesn't mean that I'm unwilling to use them, just that I
don't want to go overboard.  Glitz for the sake of glitz is sort
of against my religion.  Glitz that either increases the
informational content or increases the _professionalism_ of the
look is OK.

=46inally, I want to design a New Look - a new logo, banners,
navigation bars, and so on. I'm at a loss, though.  If I can get
one that I like, I'll do it up as a Frontpage98 Theme and make it
available for download.  That ties in with my Team Traveller
topic, below.  C'mon folks, share your ideas!

(2) FAQ update

I'm mostly rewriting what used to be the Imperium Games FAQ, but
which on Freelance Traveller will be called the Traveller FAQ.
It's being expanded to cover FAQs on _all_ Traveller, not just
IG, hence the name change.  I have some questions that I need
answered; I'd appreciate it if someone could answer these for me.

(a) Who/What is BITS?
(b) Who/What is CORE?
(c) What can you tell me about GURPS:Traveller?
(d) What other companies currently have Traveller licenses, and
what have they published?
(e) Who owns the rights to old Traveller material published by
[insert company other than GDW - DGP, FASA, and Seeker come
immediately to mind]?
(f) What Traveller-related mailing lists are out there, and how
do I join? (I have full info for TML and TravLang; I need the
rest.)
(g) At one point, there were people who acted as official
net-reps for IG, to whom questions would be directed, and from
whom answers would come.  Does this function still exist?  If so,
who are those people, and what part of the job is their
responsibility?
(h) How far in advance are the moderated IRC discussions
scheduled, and how far in advance do we know the topic?

(3) Traveller Promotion Ideas?

In spite of Many Things That We Need Not Name, Traveller is a
good system.  Other than simple word-of-mouth, how can we, the
dedicated core of Traveller enthusiasts, promote Traveller.  I'm
not suggesting that we go out and buy advertising (though if
someone wants to do that, I'm sure that there won't be many
objections), but I am thinking of "deliberate efforts", i.e.,
promotion of Traveller is our goal, and not just a side effect of
our enthusiasm.  This also ties in with "Team Traveller?", below.

(4) Team Traveller?

There's something nagging at the back of my skull that says that
this has been done already, but...

Proponents of many IBM products, such as OS/2 and PL/I, are
organized into "Teams", which act in coordinated manner to spread
the gospel, and to provide assistance to others, with respect to
their "team product".  Microsoft has something similar in their
MVP (Most Valued Professional) designation.  Is there something
similar that we can join or organize for the purpose of Traveller
support and promotion?  Can we increase the identification by
having our Traveller web pages have a consistent look-and-feel?
Should we?  Your thoughts are invited.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:11:51 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Another Imported Adventure

> 
>   Speaking of Gamma World, has anyone here looked at (or even
> SEEN) the Amazing Engine version, "Metamorphosis Alpha to Omega"?
> I never saw this new, and only stumbled across a used one this
> week. Something about a ship 20km long gets my attention :)

I have a brand new copy of that.  I also have a complete photocopy of
the very first edition of that game.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 19:56:22 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Art Portfolio

On 12/29/97 at 10:32 PM,  Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca> said:

>>I'd rather have useable stuff than art in my RPG-books!

>I'd rather have usable art than unusable text in my books. Non-technical
>books in general, and games in particular, have this annoying tendency of
>using graphics as some kind of 'filler' for blank pages. This is endemic
>in T4...

<snip>

It's the difference between "art" and "illustration" that's really at issue
here.  I don't want to start a long winded debate on "What is art?", but
IMO, there is a major difference between artistic graphics and illustrative
graphics.  The same sort of difference you'll find between technical and
creative writers.

Art is meant to *evoke* feelings and set a mood for the viewer.  An
artistic image might, or might not, look like the object it is supposed to
represent.  It might just be the artist's impression, or perception of the
object's "essence" and not look at all like the actual object. 

Illustration, OTOH, has the goal of making things clear.  Illustrations
should be clear, simple, and completely representative.  They should show
as much of the object's form and function as possible.  Simple pen and ink
images are good for this.  So are cut-aways and perspective views. 
Impressionism, expressionism, surrealism have NO place here.

Art on a cover and occasionally inside an RPG is very useful to evoke a
mood.  However, most inside graphics should be mostly *illustrative* in
nature.

And we are probably talking about two completely different people doing the
work here too.  ;->

Ok, ok, there can be accurate illustrations that evoke a mood, but that's
*much* harder to pull off..and why really good graphics artists are worth
their weight in gold.  For Traveller, better to keep the art and the
illustration separate...IMO.

>My players are always asking me for what things look like, and most
>rules give me no help in this regard.  I have also never seen a
>Traveller deck plan that is of any use in visualizing the appearance of
>a ship.

Yes!  You want, and they need illustrations!  Clear visual images of
exactly what the device looks like and how it is used.  Pictures that show
scale in relation to human sized figures.  If IG had put that kind of
graphics in the books we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Am I making sense here?

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 20:38:27 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: GURPS Traveller

On 12/30/97 at 12:38 PM,  "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu> said:

>There is now an official SJG's GURPS Traveller Web site.  The address is:

>   http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/index.html

>   Not a lot of information up yet, but I would imagine that as things
>develop, this would be the place to check.  

I suspect so.

>BTW, the list price for the basic sourcebook is going to be US$17.95
>(naturally you would also have to buy the basic rulebook at around
>US$30.00 for it to be of use in playing GURPS).

Retorical questions..

Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I & II, and
Vehicles? Not to mention Copendium I and II!

Oh yes, will we all be switching to cubic yards, pounds and miles now?


You know, I *almost* like GURPS.  If it wasn't for it's point based *only*
chargen, overdependence on two attributes (IQ and DX), Minimaxer-prone
advantages and disadvantages, and lack of a *real* Task System I could
really get behind it.

So, oh great TML, how can GURPS be fixed?  Can we create a Traveller style
method of Chargen for GURPS?  Can we find a way to add a couple of
attributes (EDU and SOC at least!;-)?  Can we figure out how to tack an
"honest to god" Task System onto GURPS old-fashion Success System?  [The
Advantage/Disadvantage problem is something I figure I can handle on the GM
level. ;->]

Inquiring minds want to know!


Eris,
    who really likes GURPS...really! ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:10:16 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Realistic space battles / ships

What about using absorbic bombs to get rid of heat?

See the book, "The Killing star" by Charles Pellegrino 
					    &
				     George Zebrowski

An excellent book.  There is a team of scientists in the core of a
comet, orbiting the sun just below it's surface, using 'absorbic bombs'
to survive the tremendous heat.

The absorbic bomb is where energy is transformed into matter,
instantaneously.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:09:34 -0500
From: Magnus <magnus@ij.net>
Subject: (no subject)

remove

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 21:00:40 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance

Jeff, I'm going the opposite direction.  I'm going to take your 4 in 1 post
and address it as different parts.  My computer multitasks much better than
my brain..not!  ;->

On 12/30/97 at 11:14 PM,  jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
said:

>(1) Freelance Traveller redesign assistance.

>I've temporarily halted work on the posted Freelance Traveller; I decided
>that it needs a new look, and possibly a new structure. The problem I'm
>having is that I can't decide exactly what I want; therefore, I'm looking
>for ideas from a bunch of very creative and imaginative folks. 

"Well that lets *me* out.  I can go back to plotting the pirate attack on
Beaman's Rift..."

>Stop looking around and behind you; I'm talking about _you_. 

"What? Oh. Ok, but just remember *you* asked for it."

>Many of you have visited FT; what I'd like now is for some serious
>constructive criticism - how can I make the site better?

"Uhh, new articles?"

>Please note that I have placed the following technical restrictions on
>what I'm willing to incorporate:

"Oh, you mean technical stuff."

>(a) I'd like to get away from the black background.  The problem with
>black backgrounds is that it takes light text to be readable - and if
>someone decides to print the page to a color inkjet (the most common type
>of printer in home use at present), it's going to look disgusting at best,
>unreadable at worst.

<Whistles!  Cheers!  Much clapping of hands!> 

Give me a simple plain white or gray background with no patterns or fancy
stuff..so call me an old fogey!  ;-> I want to be able to *read* the stuff. 
BTW, something almost nobody does, but I wish they would is to make the
same info that's on their html pages available as unformatted text files. 
There are a lot of advantages to plain old ASCII text.

>(b) Much as I like some of the most recent technical innovations, such as
>style sheets and DHTML, I can't in good conscience do things that depend
>on them.  I tend to like to make pages that can be viewed by as wide a
>range of browsers as possible; but even if I limit myself to Netscape and
>Internet Explorer, there are enough old versions of each to make it
>impractical to assume that they all support the latest technologies.  

<Now the audience is standing on the chairs pounding their hands together
and stomping their feet!>

I use NS/2 at home and it's still at the 2.02 level and NS 3.0 at work...so
call me an old fogey, but I don't see any reason to move to Communicator or
that M$ abomination!

"What's that?  I'm repeating myself.  Well, son we old fogeys tend to do
that."

>(c) I would prefer to avoid being heavy on graphics or embedded files,
>including Java applets.  My ISP's home page is
>chock-a-block with graphics and animations and Java applets; the damn
>thing takes an unconscionably long time to load over a 28.8 connection. 
>The whole world ain't on 56K or better, yet.  

<The audience is starting to swoon now!  There they go falling down,
overcome with emotion!>

Ok! Ok! I won't repeat how much of an old fogey I am...but I am.

Java applets and graphics have their place, an important one, but there's
too much glitz for glitz sake out and about on the web.  Keep you pages
clean, simple and fast, Fast, FAST!

>Again, that doesn't mean that I'm unwilling to use them, just that I
>don't want to go overboard.  Glitz for the sake of glitz is sort of
>against my religion.  

Amen brother! Elegance is in, glitz is out!

>Glitz that either increases the informational content or increases the
>_professionalism_ of the look is OK.

Then it's not glitz, it's information.


Eris,
    old coot..in training!
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:06:00 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97

In a message dated 97-12-30 00:44:41 EST, you write:

<< >    We're very excited to report that Loren Wiseman, long-time _Traveller_
 >    guru for GDW, is joining the SJ Games staff in January.
 >    
 >    Loren is one of the original Secret Masters of Gaming (it was Loren
 >    who popularized the phrase, "Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow"). He
 >    will be doing a couple of different things for us, including
 >    overseeing the _[1]GURPS Traveller_ line of products, as well as art
 >    directing and some production. >>

YAY!  WOOHOO!!!  Congratulations!  To Loren and all of us!

Ithklur ("Steve Jackson ain't no dummy . . .")

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:41:07 +0800
From: "Michael Bailey" <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Uncle Duke

> Bear in mind that I am a lead-pusher for recreation -- anybody down there
remember
> Uncle Duke?

Yes!!!!! Another one for H.S.T.


When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:51:07 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

>on the planet, kind of like someone's post of Island of Dread.  Has anyone
>ever
>made stats for Cylons or their weapons, ships, etc.  If so please post them or

It shouldn't be to hard to cobble together.  Remember you've got two
different classes of Cylons.  Four are basically drones, whereas two are
more intelligent.    Some semi-decent armor, bigger and stronger than
humans, and Laser rifles.

The ship's though are rougher, they're non-jump capable I'd say, but
Battlestar Galactica was always pretty vague about the ship specs, and
distances traveled.

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:38:56 -0800
From: "Kevin Bingham" <kbingham@metro.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97

Loren,

Beware that the CIA doesn't come knocking at SJ's door, saying that you have
secrets vital to national security and then ship your work off to NASA to be
analyzed. (c;  j/k

Best of luck to you!
Couldn't have happened to a better guy.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:42:15 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh

> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
> 
> Hmmmm, Someone wrote;
> >>other reindeer are also representative of specific ship's sub-systems
> >>(with their
> >>names being mnemonics for function, perhaps).
> >
> >   Dasher, Dancer, Donner, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, and Blitzen.
> >There seem to be an awful lot of 'D's there...someone else want to take
> >a crack at it?
> 
> Dasher; High Speed Manuver Drive
> 
> Dancer; Evasion subsystem
> 
> Prancer; "Jump" Drive (oooh, that hurts)
> 
> Vixen; Hmm, Crew entertainment?  no no, Santa's not into that stuff,
> Perhaps Communications...
> 
> Comet; Oort Cloud Refueling.
> 
> Cupid; Long Range disabling attack weapon.  (Cupid's Longbow Mk.2?)
> 
> Donner; ECM Suite (like to 'don' a different outfit - you know,
cloaking.)
> 
> Blitzen; Attack Systems, corruption of "Blitz 'em"
> 
> And of course Rudolph as sensor suite.

I see a common mistake taking shape here, the problem is in that Dutch and
German are as similar as English and Dutch.  Originally, this name was
Donder.  Donder and Blitzen are paired components in the original.  Donder
and Donner both mean Thunder in their respective original languages.  You
can see how this bit of confusion can slip in.  It seems obvious to me that
Santa's HGT (Holiday Gift Transport) would not need (or have) ECM, but, a
sonic boom suppression system would be quite advantages.  After all you
don't want to wake the little tikes or their parents on Christmas Eve.

BTW, I note that Donner is duplicated in the listing above.  Anyone out
there know the name of the 8th Reindeer?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:31:36 -0800
From: "Kevin Bingham" <kbingham@metro.net>
Subject: Realistic space battles / ships

<snip>
Why not use a contraption like the Spacesuit Option, Heat Absorber (SCS p
14)?  If such a device were scaled up and if we were to include Scale
Efficiency (FF&S + see the note below) we would have the ability to absorb
some serious Mw/turn of heat by pumping it into blocks of ice.  Adding
additional ice capacity would increase the time spans at each level of
reduced detectability, but not increase the amount of heat/turn that could
be absorbed.
<pins>

Just some free association on the idea....

ON ICE...
Why not just use L-Hyd inside the ship? I've always envisioned the tanks to
be like on big thermos bottle (beware of the pressure). Or store unrefined
L-Hyd (water) in the tanks and supercool the water to form ice. Just need to
watch out for the ice expanding once it is frozen. And what if you need that
fuel quickly? You'll need to liquify it quickly. Hmmm, mayhap some sort of
frozen slurry?

ON STEALTH...
I've understood stealth to be a property of a vehicle not reflecting active
sensors (ladar/radar) back to the sensor, done with special paints and
oblique surfaces to do the trick (correct me if and where I am lacking in
this understanding). How can you detect something if no signal is returning?
So sensors get refined & better with higher tech levels, but so does
stealth.
Understandably there still is the problem of IR signature.
Could this be lensed in a certain direction? Gravitically?
Or why couldn't heat be captured and reused as energy at a certain tech
level?

- -May the stars be in your dreams

Kevin

kevin@technologist.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 21:48:04 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re:  Traveller promotion ideas and Team Traveller?

These two go together...

On 12/30/97 at 11:14 PM,  jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
said:

>(3) Traveller Promotion Ideas?

>In spite of Many Things That We Need Not Name, Traveller is a good system. 

Yes I agree, and I'll be good and *not* mention any of those "things that
we need not name" tonight.

>Other than simple word-of-mouth, how can we, the dedicated core of
>Traveller enthusiasts, promote Traveller.  I'm not suggesting that we go
>out and buy advertising (though if someone wants to do that, I'm sure that
>there won't be many objections), but I am thinking of "deliberate efforts", >i.e., promotion of Traveller is our goal, and not just a side effect of our >enthusiasm.  This also ties in with "Team Traveller?", below.

Run games in stores and at conventions.

Say nothing but good things about *all* versions in public (if you can't
say something good keep quiet), and take IG to the woodshed *in*private*
about their quality control.

Write secondary market publishers, asking when their Traveller suppliments
will be coming out.

Pray to your six sided dice that Marc will get T4.1 right, IG won't screw
it up in editing and the printers don't screw it up when it gets to them.

>(4) Team Traveller?

>There's something nagging at the back of my skull that says that this has
>been done already, but...

>Proponents of many IBM products, such as OS/2 and PL/I, are
>organized into "Teams", which act in coordinated manner to spread the
>gospel, and to provide assistance to others, with respect to their "team
>product".  

Team OS/2 and their famous pink shirts! 

>Is there something similar that we can join or organize for the purpose of >Traveller support and promotion?  

No, not that I've heard of, but it's a good idea.  Can we have Black shirts
with Imperial Sunbursts?

>Can we increase the identification by having our Traveller web pages have a
>consistent look-and-feel? Should we?

Could, probably shouldn't. Individualism is important and good. 

OTOH, I think if you have a Traveller web page you should be on the
Traveller Web Ring, and you should promote the ring.  That's a *very*
useful linking mechanism that.  

I think the idea that <somebody> had of an index of who has what Traveller
stuff and where it is on the web was a good idea.  

And why are so few Traveller pages listed on Yahoo?  Is it because we have
to fill out a form and *we* don't?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 21:30:08 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re:FAQ update

On 12/30/97 at 11:14 PM,  jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
said:

>(2) FAQ update

>I'm mostly rewriting what used to be the Imperium Games FAQ, but which on
>Freelance Traveller will be called the Traveller FAQ. It's being expanded
>to cover FAQs on _all_ Traveller, not just IG, hence the name change.  

That's a good idea, Jeff.

>I have some questions that I need answered; I'd appreciate it if someone
>could answer these for me.

>(a) Who/What is BITS?

British <mumble> Traveller <mumble>  

>(b) Who/What is CORE?

The folks that are behind most of the good Traveller suppliments. Oh, you
want names!  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would be Jo Grant, Stuart
(and ?Suz?) Dollar, Joe Walsh and maybe one or two more folks who's names
have slipped my mind...like that's not hard to do. ;->

>(c) What can you tell me about GURPS:Traveller?

Out RSN. Loren is writing it. It's set in an Imperium where Dulinor wakes
up from a night of overindulgence to find Cleon stepping out of the shower
says, "Sire, what a *dream* I had last night!"   No, not really, but I
still think it would be a major hoot if Loran wrote it that way. ;->  And
from what I read on the GURPS list, it'll be a lot more GURPS than
Traveller.

>(d) What other companies currently have Traveller licenses, and what have
>they published?

Don't know, and damn little!  Gold Rush Game *had* a licence and talked
about a suppliment..did they ever publish it?

>(e) Who owns the rights to old Traveller material published by [insert
>company other than GDW - DGP, FASA, and Seeker come immediately to mind]?

I'd guess, DGP, FASA, Seeker, Judges Guild.  Are Seeker and JG still in
business?

>(f) What Traveller-related mailing lists are out there, and how do I join?
>(I have full info for TML and TravLang; I need the rest.)

Trav-tech and TNE-RCES are the only ones I know about. Send a post to:

"TNE-RCES" listproc@tower.ml.org

"Trav-Tech" trav-tech-request@qrc.com

the body of each should be 

HELP
END

>(g) At one point, there were people who acted as official
>net-reps for IG, to whom questions would be directed, and from whom
>answers would come.  Does this function still exist?  If so, who are those
>people, and what part of the job is their
>responsibility?

Stuart and Joe...once upon a time. Today, I don't think there are any
offical net-reps for IG.

>(h) How far in advance are the moderated IRC discussions
>scheduled, and how far in advance do we know the topic?

I don't do IRC! It moves to fast for an old coot like me. ;->  

Eris,
    a bit older everytime I post!
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2186
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 31 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2187



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Piracy and SHAME ON YOU...
Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97
Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?
Cooking Turkey with high explosives
Re: Cylons in TNE
[TML] Starship Mortgages...
[TML] Re: Another Imported Adventure
field mice
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Query
Re: Prison Planet
Re: Re:FAQ update
Re: lead-pushers...
Re: Spaceworthy jokes
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
JTAS Editorship
Anime Art?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:31:46 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Piracy and SHAME ON YOU...

In light of the lack of manners from one specific member of the
"anti-piracy" camp, this will be my last post on the topic.
Unfortunately, I have better things to do with my time than to have
someone treat me with the attitude of "HOW CAN YOU BE SO DENSE".  Pity, I
thought the purpose of the mailing list was to enjoy it...

  In any case:

1) Criminals believe they won't get caught.  Unfortunately, there are a
few that don't get caught, as well as the fact that some crimes take a
while to catch up to the perps...  This is ultimately, a reason why piracy
would exist - the belief that "I/we won't get caught".

2) as with any defensive position having to wait for someone to launch an
attack, the enemy (pirates in this case) will pounce when the circumstance
for mounting a successful chance of piracy will include the factors that
make a successful defense difficult.  Factors involved with launching a
rapid response team to the area of difficulty include:

  A) planetary based ships need time to gather their crew, and launch.
Prelaunch checks need to be carried out prior to the launch.  Ordance must
be loaded, or if loaded, must be upgraded from stand down status to alert
status.

  B) orbital forces positioned in space, if on patrol status will be able
to respond, but only upon recieving the mayday, and will need to
accellerate from a relative zero velocity towards the victim.  On a size 7
world, it would take 1.1 hours for a 4g patrol ship to reach a ship that
is 90 diameters away...   ample enough time for a pirate to do his deed
and get underway.

  C) ships that are in space on patrol are likely to be pointing the wrong
direction, with a vector that needs to be modified.  Even if by distance
the naval ship is only 30 minutes away, it won't help if it needs 20
minutes to turn around and get underway towards the ship being pirated.

  Having said all this, there are countermeasures one can employ versus
sensors.  The common most is powering down and going balistic.  During
submarine warfare, all that needed to happen was for a torpedo to be
launched based on the prediction of the target's speed and heading not
changing in the time the torp was underway.  Likewise, a powered down
intercept could work out rather well in this respect.
  Another counter measure would be the use of Jammers.  A ship inside the
Jammer's umbrella, could make a course change while underway, and then
power down - and exiting the umbrella.  Chances of spotting a ship while
inside a powerful jammer's area of effect are a bit on the low side
(realistically speaking).  One simple concept that would work, is the use
of a small throwaway jammer, a jammer on the pirate ship, and time enough
to use both.  A simple freighter intercepted 90 Planetary diameters away,
is attacked and under jamming.  Merchant crew surrenders and is put on
lifeboats (or just left to drift in vacc suits with a radio transmitter!)
price crew then takes over, and changes course and accellerates at max
speed.  Prior to exiting the strongest part of the area being jammed, they
powerdown.  Pirate ship then takes off at full speed while jamming.  They
head towards a prepositioned throwaway jammer, and activate it upon
entering it.  They in turn change course and powerdown.  The defense
system now has three tasks: pick up the survivors, find the missing
freighter, and find the missing pirate ship.  If the pirates really wanted
to be nasty, they take the merchant crew on board, and then prior to
course change, they launch the crew in vacc suits.  They tell the
planetary patrol what they have done, and broadcast it in the loud so the
public can hear of it.  If the navy doesn't make some effort to rescue the
merchant crew, what will the outcry be?

  As stated, this is my last response on this issue.  Differences of
opinion are healthy on the list.  Bad manners is not.  The rest of this
list has my condolances that you have such people on this list who need
better training on how to interact in polite society...

   Respectfully yours,
     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:02:58 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97

At 03:04 PM 12/30/97 EST, Loren wrote:
>...anybody down there remember
>Uncle Duke?

I'm not from "down there" but Uncle Duke is a regular at the HMGS East
convention, Historicon, running games with all the pomp and cerimony we've
learned to love over the last 25 years...  He still has a fuzzball on his
chin and is, if anything, more mellow than ever!  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:58:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?

Jeff Zeitlin said:
> I'd like now is for some serious constructive criticism - how can
> I make the site better?

I'll put my .02Cr in with Eris - you go!

Go for a #FFFFFF white background. That's probably the biggest mistake I
made in my pages, and I've yet to go through and re-org them to a
different format. WHITE makes the pages look crisp and readable - like a
good paper publication, and FT especially is going for display of 
content (over style).

Pick a minimalistic look - the graphic at the header &/or footer - to
give the site a good "look & feel". Otherwise, pitch the graphics for the
masses. When it comes to a publication like FT, content is king.

That goes on to Eris' point - new articles. I know exactly how hard it is
to get articles, but canvas for them. Ask specific people to write
specific things for FT.

Now I'll go into what I'd like FT to be - it may not fit with what you're
looking for... I'd like to see an online publication, updated on a
regular basis (every two months? monthly? quarterly?) with some good
articles and adventures. House rules are interesting, but I'm usually not
interested. I'm very interested in other people's adventures. It'd also
be nice to see a regular column or two - maybe a column from the
GreaHeads with some new rules/designs, and a column or article
periodically from some of the writers around here (CORE folks?).
Interviews are always interesting reading, and there's a number of folks
around here to interview...

Finally - get a faster server or better access for FT to the Internet. 
The lag times coming out of FT are horrendous!

> (4) Team Traveller?

Team Traveller kinds of ideas are exactly what the game system needs to
increase people's awareness of it as a playable RPG, not just something
from '77. The real benefit there is going to be hitting the Con's and
running games - increasing awareness completely _outside_ of the
Internet. The net folks who are doing traveller now have pretty much
already found the Traveller sites, and probably the TML. The continued
growth of Traveller requires folks doing the street-hitting routine.

IMHO - your milage may vary.

- -- 
 joe                          (573) 884-6766
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:21:21 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Cooking Turkey with high explosives

Roderick wrote:

>I also
>nearly managed to burn my face off cooking the turkey.

My suggestion is not to baste it with your tongue. 

Loren (remind-me-to-give-you-my-recipe-for-C-4-grilled-cheese-sandwiches-
sometime) Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:28:53 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

At 09:11 PM 12/30/97 EST, Barker wrote:
>  <Snip>...
> Has anyone ever made stats for Cylons or their weapons, ships, etc.  If
so please post them or
>send them to me at...

Please post them to the TML!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:26:57 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: [TML] Starship Mortgages...

My home mortgage payment includes, in addition to P&I, insurance and
taxes...  Does the typical starship mortgage payment?  Anybody out there
spend a few fruitful (???) evenings thinking about this?  The easy answer
(and the one I would use) is *Yes*.  I've an Accountant-4 player, however,
and if there's something canonical in print about this, it's better for my
game if I follow it.

Tx & Happy New Year!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:21:09 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Imported Adventure

Apologies for posting this to the list, but I'm the one whose ISP strips
header info...

At 06:53 PM 12/30/97 EST, GypsyComet wrote:
<Snip>...
>  Speaking of Gamma World, has anyone here looked at (or even
>SEEN) the Amazing Engine version, "Metamorphosis Alpha to Omega"?
>I never saw this new, and only stumbled across a used one this
>week. Something about a ship 20km long gets my attention :)
>
>  Unlike most of the previous editions of TSRs "mutants" game,
>this one is formatted to be as complete as possible in one volume
>(given the nature of the Amazine Engine line), so it actually has
>a fair amount of material on running campaings in the setting. It
>also provides enough information for playing the Warden's endgame.
>

I found this to be the case with most of the Amazing Engine games -
relatively complete and generally well done...  Question:  I've read a
number of the AE releases but haven't played the game.  How well's the game
system actually work?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:33:07 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ma.ultranet.com>
Subject: field mice

Kenji Schwarz types:
>Working as I do in biomedical research admin, I know of a simple and
>entertaining device to stop this threat in its tracks:  the mouse
>liquefiers.  It's a sort of souped-up blender that reduces lab mice to,
>well, soup, in a fraction of the time it used to take to do it by hand.
>They cost a fortune, of course, but they're extremely impressive in action.

   Back when my wife was doing medical research, she use to 'harvest' rats
the same way the French used to 'harvest' nobles.  It's quick.  Thus
avoiding the shock toxins a slow painful death causes.  


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
Discord, the Goddess of the Net, was developing a taste for blood sacrifice.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:50:03 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

At 08:38 PM 12/30/97 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)eris@pen.net (Eris
Reddoch) wrote:
>snip<
>
>Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I & II, and
>Vehicles? Not to mention Copendium I and II!

Why not!, GURPS has Robots, Psionics, Martial Arts, and many other very
useful books that Traveller will never see the light of publishing. 

The entire basic system is seamless unlike the current and prior editions
of Traveller. It has only one design system, with useful additions unlike
the 4 plus that T4 currently has.

>Oh yes, will we all be switching to cubic yards, pounds and miles now?

But my spreadsheet can easily convert metric to English and back again.

>You know, I *almost* like GURPS.  If it wasn't for it's point based *only*
>chargen, overdependence on two attributes (IQ and DX), Minimaxer-prone
>advantages and disadvantages, and lack of a *real* Task System I could
>really get behind it.

I prefer a point based character generation system than the current T4 one.
As to the overdependence on two attributes  and Min/Maxing those are GM
issues not system issues. The current T4 does not have a *real* task system
either.

>So, oh great TML, how can GURPS be fixed?  Can we create a Traveller style
>method of Chargen for GURPS?  Can we find a way to add a couple of
>attributes (EDU and SOC at least!;-)?  Can we figure out how to tack an
>"honest to god" Task System onto GURPS old-fashion Success System?  [The
>Advantage/Disadvantage problem is something I figure I can handle on the GM
>level. ;->]

Unlike Traveller, GURPS does not need fixing, just errata for revision.  

>Inquiring minds want to know!

Ahh the Heretic seeks knowledge but is *clueless* where to begin.<G>

First one must go to the web sites that one must make an offering to the
Internet God Glitch! whose origins are shrouded in the mysteries of the
UNIX codes.

Go seek the enlightened web sites of Heretical One, they are out there for
the truly devoted ones who can use search tools.<G> But if you are lazy,
GURPS Imperium is good starting place.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:55:01 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Quoth Eris Reddoch:
> So, oh great TML, how can GURPS be fixed?  Can we create a Traveller style
> method of Chargen for GURPS?

As you've noticed, GURPS is fairly philosophically opposed to this.  Of
course, there's nothing to stop you from rolling a random career and then
designing a GURPS character to fit that history.  Or are you asking for a
completely random generation process all through?  (You could do such: the
outlines for a random sequence are already in the Basic Set, and you'd
just need to add the career tables, etc., converted from CT or descendant).

> Can we find a way to add a couple of attributes (EDU and SOC at least!;-)?

GURPS treats these and many other details as "meta-attributes" -- you can
buy advantages or disadvantages to handle variances.  Social Standing is
fairly well-handled (IMHO) by the existing Status system (you can range
from -4 (serf or slave) to 8 (emperor-scale), which is as near in
resolution to the hexadecimal 0-15 range as makes little difference to me,
and allows for non-noble corporate status as well as grants of title. 
Education is largely subsumed into skills (Area Knowledge, the wider list
of available skills, and some "general knowledge" factored into the IQ
stat), but there are a few disads (Incompetence, etc.) to better simulate
the low end of the scale.  A specific "education" advantage would probably
be widely viewed as "un-GURPS-like."

> Can we figure out how to tack an "honest to god" Task System onto GURPS
> old-fashion Success System?

To vary difficulty, I usually just assess an on-the-fly skill penalty --
"There's not a lot left of the carvings.  Roll Archaeology minus 6 to
interpret them."  (I'm fairly sure the Basic Set specifically suggests
this.)  And, again, if you want varied degrees of success (beyond the
existing Critical vs. Normal Success/Failure), just pay attention to how
much the roll was made by and adjust your descriptions as referee
accordingly.  For all its apparent complexity, GURPS relies a great deal,
I find, on a free-wheeling and story-telling GM. 

> Eris,
>     who really likes GURPS...really! ;->

Glad you think so.  :-)  GURPS _is_ open to min-maxing, as any detailed
system is (cf income tax, government procurement, or computer programming).
The books, SJG itself, and most of the experienced lot on the GURPS-Net
mailing list all repeatedly point out that with freedom comes responsibility:
the referee does have to make sure that the characters created match the
sort of game she and the players want to have, and be willing to ask for
justifications or revisions when PC's don't measure up.

One area which I'm looking forward to in GURPS:Traveller is the ability to
describe aliens using GURPS racial templates, allowing more player
flexibility with better play balance.  I'm happy to have seen my GURPS:
Traveller site mentioned several times in recent weeks here on TML, but
haven't heard any feedback on the racial packages I wrote up for the
species from Aliens Archive.  They _do_ point out some holes in GURPS
(Hresh extra arms are definitely in the realm of diminishing returns, and
shouldn't be so costly!), but I think are interesting overall.  I have a
few more to add, and hope to do so soon.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:46:28 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

>Retorical questions..
>
>Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I & II, and
>Vehicles? Not to mention Copendium I and II!

This might be a Retorical question, but I can't let it pass.  What makes
you _THINK_ that you will need these?  Personally I suspect GURPS Space
won't be that compatible, and I don't see why you would need Martial Arts,
or the Compendiums.  Vehicles might be a nice to have, I don't know, I'm
still trying to get a copy.  Ultra Tech, and a few others I can think of
are nice to haves, but again not needed.

Basically there is NO reason to believe that you will HAVE to have anything
BUT the basic GURPS book, and GURPS Traveller.  That is the beauty of the
GURPS system, you can enhance it with other books, but all you need is the
Basic book.

Take a look at GURPS Lensman for example, it's a Space setting, but it
doen't need or even want GURPS Space.  It tosses the Space Ship
construction and combat from GURPS Space OUT THE WINDOW, and does things
it's own way.

As for EDU and SOC, do you really need atributes for this, isn't this in
reality an advantage or disadvantage?  OK, actually I guess it's a combo of
Attribute/Advantage/Disadvantage.

One thing I'm really hoping for is that they keep our Tech Levels as the
GURPS Tech Levels seem a bit odd when talking about Traveller.

I'd too would like to see the Metric system continued, but unfortunatly I
suspect it will end up with yards, pounds, etc.  This is one thing, that
isn't _really that important_ in the great scheme of things for Traveller,
but could really mess up even the Basic GURPS rules.

Face it, GURPS Traveller IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD!  Give it a chance, it
might end up saving Traveller.  Let's be serious, T4 is keeping it on life
support, that's about it, and they've not paid the electric bill so to
speak, so that life support is shaky at best!  I personally think the only
reason Imperium Games is still around is because a few crazy people such as
myself buy everything they put out, hoping it will get better, but knowing
that it probably won't.

With GURPS Traveller you have a setting that at least some of us think
should have been.  A setting that allows the basic materials to be used for
a Classic, Mega, or TNE game with basically no work and very little extra
needed.  Can T4 make that claim?  I think not!

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:23:21 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Query

>Subject: Coronation- done right.

Hello,
  Neat stuff - and official too! Did you do an equivalent HG
work-up as well?

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:25:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Prison Planet

>I haven't run my group in it yet, but the minute they get convicted of
>something, I'll be hauling it out. If anyone has run it and has any
>tips, I'd be interested in hearing about them!

  Right off, always make sure that there are no cameras in sight
before beating a fellow prisoner to death with a mining implement.
You also may need separate weapon stats for picks and shovels, to
allow specialization by the discerning psychopath.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:36:45 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Re:FAQ update

> On 12/30/97 at 11:14 PM,  jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
said:
> 
> >(e) Who owns the rights to old Traveller material published by [insert
> >company other than GDW - DGP, FASA, and Seeker come immediately to
mind]?

I believe I read somewhere that when GDW folded the rights to ALL materials
developed for the system reverted to the originator of the concept (Marc
Miller).  I can't find a reference for that, but if you have CSC you will
note in the introduction (p. 4) that Greg Porter said he had been collating
"...virtually every item ever published for Traveller,..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:42:38 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: lead-pushers...

>From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: Fw: SJ Games Daily Illuminator for 12/29/97
>...
>2) Ditto for best Friendly Local Game Store (tm) Brand hobby shop. Bear in
>mind that I am a lead-pusher for recreation -- anybody down there remember
>Uncle Duke?

Hello,
  Are you aware of any realistic chances of either re-releases of the old
Grenadier figures (or "old" RAFM figs) or a new Traveller miniatures line?
I'm always looking for more, but was a bit disheartened to have to tell a
fellow customer at a recent sale to try the "Shadowrun" line for people
and GZG's products for resin vehicles.

  It may not be the biggest deal for T4 players, but for newer CT/MT players
the lack of aliens (particularly the canon Major Races) must be a nuisance.
AFAIK, there are only two different castings for most of them, Aslan being
the only non-human exception. I have a bit of a beef with this :)

  Given the overpricing of many lines, it could easily work out that the
old human Adventurers or Imperial Marines boxed sets could make good profits,
allowing for updating the retail to close to current levels.

  BTW, Denizen has some good Zhodani combat armour troop look a likes, although
the cat #'s escape me.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:02:09 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Spaceworthy jokes

Victor Brueggemann <dukedrake@earthlink.net> wrote

[Snip of his  - If you thought the motto of the Imperial Scouts really
was "We come in peace, shoot to kill", you may be a Solomani. - jokes]

I passed these on to a friend who is a former TMLer & he wrote:

If you wear a red fur hat year round, and think violence is fun, you may
be an Ithklur.

If you breath methane and are allergic to jump-space, you may be a
Jagd'il'jigdi.

If you enjoy doing paperwork while wet, you may be a Newt.

- -wil

William F. Hostman              
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:56:28 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

> From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>

> One thing I'm really hoping for is that they keep our Tech Levels as the
> GURPS Tech Levels seem a bit odd when talking about Traveller.

Me too!  (Sorry I just couldn't resist.)  One of the things that I have
always liked about Traveller is the coherent technology system.
 
> I'd too would like to see the Metric system continued, but unfortunatly I
> suspect it will end up with yards, pounds, etc.  This is one thing, that
> isn't _really that important_ in the great scheme of things for
Traveller,
> but could really mess up even the Basic GURPS rules.

From someone involved in the GURPS conversions, I learned that they will go
with the English system.  They think that it is very Travelleresque
(although how they came to this conclusion I'll never know).  The metric
system is much more intuitive, but I guess they feel that consistency with
other GURPS material is more important.  Maybe they are right! 
Inconsistency is the hobgoblin that has ruined more good RPG's than
anything else.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 02:17:10 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)  - whose relationship to the Discordian
Godess has never been explained to my satisfaction - wrote

> "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu> said:
> 
> >There is now an official SJG's GURPS Traveller Web site. 

So is Gurps Traveller going to be based on the historical novel of the
same name about (and written from the first person perspective of)
Robert E Lee's horse of the same name ?
 
> >BTW, the list price for the basic sourcebook is going to be US $17.95

I would rather see it at $19.95 and with a higher page count.

> >(naturally you would also have to buy the basic rulebook at around
> >US$30.00

It is $24.95 for the 256 page Gurps Third Edition Revised [ie version
3.1] pb, and well worth it IMHO.  You may be thinking of the now long OP
Gurps Third Ed Hardcover which was $29.95.

Fair warning - I am a Gurps junkie.  I own 120+ Gurps products.  I boil
them (duplicate copies only of course) down.  I then take the resulting
fluid, out it in a hypodermic needle, and inject it directly into my
bloodstr

Oh, sorry I meant to use the other meaning of Gurps junkie.  I don't
thnk that the secret masters have cleared most of you to know about this
method.  I will refer any cognoscenti here to Gurps Fantasy II pg
100-102 [OP].

(Not to be confused with the forthcoming (when you know where freezes
over) GURPS Junkie which will be based on the works of William S
Burroughs and will be written by Hunter S Thompson :)

> Retorical questions..

The below are my personal opinions and are not based on any advance
knowledge.

> Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I 

I assume you mean Ultra Tech 1 2nd Ed.

> & [Ulta Tech} II, and Vehicles?

I assume you mean Vehicles 2nd Ed.

> Not to mention Compendium I and II!

Need no, want yes.  A true GURPS Traveller referee will also need Gurps
Illuminati to reflect the truth about the illuminated Third Imperium,
its Templar inhabitants, and their secret master Cthul, er Grandfather.

Gurps Aliens, High Tech, Psionics, and Robots are also good.

Other items that might of some use include Gurps Bestiary, Religion,
Horror, Lensmen [for a starkly astonishing 3rd Imperium], The Prisoner
[OP], Space Bestiary [OP], Special Ops [OP], Supers 2nd Ed,
Swashbucklers 2nd Ed, Terradyne [OP], Uplift [OP] and a dozen or so more
: )

> Oh yes, will we all be switching to cubic yards, pounds and miles now?

Some GURPS products have used non English systems in the past (although
none lately) I hope Gurps Traveller will be one of them.
> 
> 
> You know, I *almost* like GURPS.  If it wasn't for it's point based *only*
> chargen, overdependence on two attributes (IQ and DX), Minimaxer-prone
> advantages and disadvantages, and lack of a *real* Task System I could
> really get behind it.
> 
> So, oh great TML, how can GURPS be fixed?  Can we create a Traveller style
> method of Chargen for GURPS?  Can we find a way to add a couple of
> attributes (EDU and SOC at least!;-)?

The chart below is an approximate conversion between GURPS Soc and
Traveller Soc.  Note however that low Soc charecters in Traveller
may/will have Odious Personal Habbits, Social Stigmas, Bad Reputations,
etc in additon to or instead of a simple lowered Social level.

Traveller	Gurps
Soc		Soc

2		-2
3		-2
4		-1
5		-1
6		0
7		0
8		0
9		1
A		1
B		2
C		3
D		4
E		5
F		6
G		7
H		8

(For TNE Soc's of less than or equal to 9 add +1 before converting.)


>  Can we figure out how to tack an
> "honest to god" Task System onto GURPS old-fashion Success System? 

Maybe.

 [The
> Advantage/Disadvantage problem is something I figure I can handle on the GM
> level. ;->]

Advantages & disadvantages are one of my favorite parts of Gurps
charecter generation & are something I have always wanted to see in
Traveller.

> Eris,
>     who really likes GURPS...really! ;->

So what is the difference between someone who "really likes
GURPS...really" and somone who merely "really likes GURPS" or one who
"likes GURPS...really" ?

Is this like the old Tom Lehrer line about the man who, while in
college, "Majored in Animal Husbandry, until they caught him at it." ?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:17:15 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: JTAS Editorship

I'd do it, or sub-edit.

I've been a sub-editor before.

Anyone with anything concrete, please talk direct.

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:31:44 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Anime Art?

No thanks. I don't really get on with the whole Anime thing - giant robots
and all - despite the well-meaning efforts of certain of my deranged
players.

Besides the building-sized handguns(!) etc, I'm fairly sure that the
costumes depicted breach at least one of the Traveller 4 Prime Directives.

And besides, I find it a bit...'teen', don't you?

So: No anime please, we're British.

MJD.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2187
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 31 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2188



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GURPS Traveller
Re:  Traveller promotion ideas and Team Traveller?
Re: Santa's Sleigh
Re: Santa's Sleigh
Re: Sayat's Slay....
Re:  Traveller-digest V1997 #2186
Re: GURPS Traveller
FF&S2 questions
Heretical GURPS Traveller stuff
Re: Traveller Art
Traveller Anime
Re: [T97#2175] New IG Website
Layout of charts and tables
Traveller Anime
RE: Santa's Sleigh
Re: Query
Re: Another Imported Adventure
Re:FAQ update

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:08:03 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

- -> > So, oh great TML, how can GURPS be fixed?  Can we create a Traveller style
- -> > method of Chargen for GURPS?
I see the Gurps Traveller release as just a bacvkground release. Sure 
there will be new rules, to fit Gurps to Trav, but face it... those 
are only for those people who need a new rules system to go with the 
background. Those of us, who already use one or the other form of 
Traveller (be it CT, MT, TNE, T4, AD&T, etc...) will continue to use 
these rules. I will use my mishmash rules as before, unless Gurps 
Trav offers some neat new alternatives that fit my style of play 
better. Those new books, to me, will be a mine, where i can dig out 
background material!

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:23:21 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re:  Traveller promotion ideas and Team Traveller?

- -> No, not that I've heard of, but it's a good idea.  Can we have Black shirts
- -> with Imperial Sunbursts?
Better yet, one with the Shattered Imperial Sunburst (looks cooler)

- -> OTOH, I think if you have a Traveller web page you should be on the
- -> Traveller Web Ring, and you should promote the ring.  That's a *very*
- -> useful linking mechanism that.  
In my experience, the Webring is down more often than up... At least 
i get many, many Server down or not responding when trying to contact 
www.webring.com (or was it .org, i forget!)

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:14:44 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh

- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh


>> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>>
>> Hmmmm, Someone wrote;
>> >>other reindeer are also representative of specific ship's sub-systems
>> >>(with their
>> >>names being mnemonics for function, perhaps).
>> >
>> >   Dasher, Dancer, Donner, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, and Blitzen.
>> >There seem to be an awful lot of 'D's there...someone else want to take
>> >a crack at it?
>>
>> Dasher; High Speed Manuver Drive
>>
>> Dancer; Evasion subsystem
>>
>> Prancer; "Jump" Drive (oooh, that hurts)
>>
>> Vixen; Hmm, Crew entertainment?  no no, Santa's not into that stuff,
>> Perhaps Communications...
>>
>> Comet; Oort Cloud Refueling.
>>
>> Cupid; Long Range disabling attack weapon.  (Cupid's Longbow Mk.2?)
>>
>> Donner; ECM Suite (like to 'don' a different outfit - you know,
>cloaking.)
>>
>> Blitzen; Attack Systems, corruption of "Blitz 'em"
>>
>> And of course Rudolph as sensor suite.
>
>I see a common mistake taking shape here, the problem is in that Dutch and
>German are as similar as English and Dutch.  Originally, this name was
>Donder.  Donder and Blitzen are paired components in the original.  Donder
>and Donner both mean Thunder in their respective original languages.  You
>can see how this bit of confusion can slip in.  It seems obvious to me that
>Santa's HGT (Holiday Gift Transport) would not need (or have) ECM, but, a
>sonic boom suppression system would be quite advantages.  After all you
>don't want to wake the little tikes or their parents on Christmas Eve.
>
>BTW, I note that Donner is duplicated in the listing above.  Anyone out
>there know the name of the 8th Reindeer?
>
>

Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, Blitzen, Rudolph and
Olive.

(Olive the other reindeer...) (all of the other reindeer...)  sing it with
me...  :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:47:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh

Richard A. Flores writes:

> >   Dasher, Dancer, Donner, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, and Blitzen.
> >There seem to be an awful lot of 'D's there...someone else want to take
> >a crack at it?
>
>BTW, I note that Donner is duplicated in the listing above.  Anyone out
>there know the name of the 8th Reindeer?

   Ooops!  you're right.  I thought I got the list right--must have been a
little too much holiday cheer...

   Here's my list.  Unless otherwise noted, listed reindeer primarily
provides basic propulsion:

   Dasher - Controls basic maneuver.  Secretly in love with Vixen, but knows
that she would spurn him.  Troubled by the inclusion of Rudolph, since he
used to handle the navigation chores.  Was moody, angst-ridden, and listened
to too much Nirvana.  Prozac mixed into his feed by Santa has done him wonders.

   Dancer - Controls evasive maneuvers.  A bit nervous since that incident
over the Marne back in '16.  Santa keeps a tight reign on him.

   Prancer - likes to dress up in female reindeer garb, other reindeer don't
like to talk about him too much.  Serves in-flight beverages.

   Vixen - Only female in crew.  Hired under affirmative action mandate.
Pulls own weight, loans reindeer clothes to Prancer on occasion.

   Comet - Cleanest of all the reindeer.  Bells always shined, hooves
trimmed, fur brushed.  Always early to work.  Handles commo when not pulling
sleigh.  Accused by other reindeer of sucking up too much to Santa.

   Cupid - When he's not playing "reindeer games" with the wives of some of
the other reindeer, pulls sleigh and check computer reads outs for Santa.
Once caught browsing the Penthouse Web site.

   Donner (or Donder) - Changed name after war to avoid prosecution on war
crimes charges.  Follows orders well.

   Blitzen - Responsible for ECM/ECCM.  Santa does not travel armed (which
makes Dancer even more nervous).  Once jinxed a Soviet missile back into the
launching aircraft.

   Rudolph - Handles navigation.  Won million dollar anti-discrimination
suit against Santa, Inc. back in '47.  Hired by Santa as part of settlement.

   Happy New Year everyone!

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:18:22 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sayat's Slay....

Oh, sorry about that.  I mistook Santa's Sleigh for that very famous and 
oft banned documentary:  Sayat's Slay...  ;->

Well y'all,  Have a Happy 001!

Greg
The Count
MonteCristo@hotmail.com



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:14:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re:  Traveller-digest V1997 #2186

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
> jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin) asked:
>
> >(c) What can you tell me about GURPS:Traveller?
> Out RSN. Loren is writing it. It's set in an Imperium where Dulinor wakes
> up from a night of overindulgence to find Cleon stepping out of the shower
> says, "Sire, what a *dream* I had last night!"   No, not really, but I
> still think it would be a major hoot if Loran wrote it that way. ;->  And
> from what I read on the GURPS list, it'll be a lot more GURPS than
> Traveller.

Loren Wiseman is (now) a SJ Games employee and will be the product line
manager for GURPS Traveller (this implies that there will be a Traveller
product line from SJ Games, rather than just a single sourcebook).  He is
writing the first book of that product line.

The setting will be an official variant, set in the "Classic" Traveller era
(post-Fifth Frontier War, or somewhere around 1120) in which the rebellion
never happened (that is, Archduke Dulinor never assasinated Emperor Strephon
and his family*).  

* Old-timers may remember that our long-gone TML Historian, Mike Metlay,
  wanted to write this supplement and call it _We Have Always Been As We
  Are_, after the famous quotation from Queen Victoria.

Eris seems to have gotten his characters mixed up a little by the way: 
that'd be Strephon stepping out of the shower.

> >(e) Who owns the rights to old Traveller material published by [insert
> >company other than GDW - DGP, FASA, and Seeker come immediately to mind]?
> 
> I'd guess, DGP, FASA, Seeker, Judges Guild.  Are Seeker and JG still in
> business?

I believe that DGP has folded or been sold, and the copyrights are now owned
by someone else.  FASA still exists, and would own the copyrights to their
material (or the rights may have reverted to the authors, the Keith
brothers).  I believe Seeker, Judges' Guild, and Paranoia Press no longer
exist as such.

> "Trav-Tech" trav-tech-request@qrc.com

> the body of each should be 
> HELP
> END

I'd recommend
  SUBSCRIBE
  END

The HELP command will get you the Majordomo help file, which won't explain
the mailing list very well.

> >(g) At one point, there were people who acted as official
> >net-reps for IG, to whom questions would be directed, and from whom
> >answers would come.

At one point, yes.  I was responsible for answering technical questions
(eg: how does a jump drive work and why can't a ship smaller than 1400 cubic
meters jump), under the direction of Joe.

> > Does this function still exist?

Not that I'm aware of.  Joe opted out of the program, and while I was
willing to continue to answer technical questions, I didn't have the time to
run the entire program.  I believe IG terminated the program at that point,
for lack of someone to run it.

> >If so, who are those people, and what part of the job is their
> >responsibility?

I am willing to (try) to answer technical questions, subject to availability
of my time (remember, I'm doing this on a volunteer basis).  Many other
folks on the TML will happily do the same for most polite questions.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:15:23 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

In a message dated 97-12-31 07:52:23 EST, you write:

<< So is Gurps Traveller going to be based on the historical novel of the
 same name about (and written from the first person perspective of)
 Robert E Lee's horse of the same name ?   >>

When Traveller was first announced in 1977, some one at SPI asked right away
"Is this about American Civil War battles?"

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:27:18 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: FF&S2 questions

I have been going over the power plant design section and have come up with
some questions.

1.    Is fuel for fission reactors stored separately, or is it contained
within the reactor volume?

2.    The minimum size of a fission reactor seems to be inconsistent with
reality.  The Russian Topaz reactor is quite small due to the use of direct
conversion using thermionic diodes.

3.    What are the radiator requirements for chemical power plants?

4.    Photoelectric systems don't make any sense.  The Area column appears
to represent the radiator requirement, but how much collection (or surface
area) does the system take up per MW?  If it turns out that the Area column
represents the collection area per MW then a 1MW array would measure 3m long
x 4m wide x 83.33m thick!  Even TL7 arrays in real life are only a few mm
thick.

5.    It doesn't seem possible to reproduce the thermo electric batteries
that are used on spacecraft such as Gallileo.  Is there any plan to add in
these designs?

Eric F.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:23:02 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Heretical GURPS Traveller stuff

> Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I & II, and
> Vehicles? Not to mention Copendium I and II!

Probably not, but there may be at least one equipment book for GT (this is
speculation, I know nothing for sure on this.) However, those books you
listed are all great reference works, and have info usable in other
settings as well. 

> Oh yes, will we all be switching to cubic yards, pounds and miles now?
 
There exists in Basic Set 3rd Edition, Revised a metric conversion table.
By the way, a displacement ton works out to 18 cubic yards
 
> You know, I *almost* like GURPS.  If it wasn't for it's point based *only*
> chargen, overdependence on two attributes (IQ and DX), Minimaxer-prone
> advantages and disadvantages, and lack of a *real* Task System I could
> really get behind it.

"Minmaxing" is not a problem in my GURPS games, because I have learned the
power of the magic word "NO!". It's amazing how well it works...

No game system is perfect, and a lot of this comes down to a matter of
taste.
 
> So, oh great TML, how can GURPS be fixed?  Can we create a Traveller
style
> method of Chargen for GURPS?  Can we find a way to add a couple of
> attributes (EDU and SOC at least!;-)?  Can we figure out how to tack an
> "honest to god" Task System onto GURPS old-fashion Success System?  [The
> Advantage/Disadvantage problem is something I figure I can handle on the
GM
> level. ;->]

Education is purely a function of how many skill points the character has
and what level certain skills are at. if he has an 18 in Biochem, then he
probably has a Master's in it. SOC is an Advantage called "Status". The
Emperor would be about Status 7 or 8, I believe.

This is SOLELY my opinion, but I absolutely hate random generation of
characters. I wouldn't mind seeing a background generation aide similar to
Fuzion's lifepath, that tells what the character did in his careers, and
maybe some important events, but I really think GURPS Traveller characters
should be built according to the player's wishes (with LOTS of GM input and
use of the Magic Word where appropriate). That's how we did it in the GURPS
Traveller (way unofficial Net version) that I ran, and everyone involved
loved their characters and had a great time. GURPS is not Traveller,
systemwise at least and it does not need to be. YMMV.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:45:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Art

Richard Hough writes:

>Agreed, there is a lot of high-quality anime-style art out there. However,
>I do not think this would be a good style for Traveller to use. Anime is a
>separate science fiction genre with its own technology and storylines. A
>steriotypical anime storyline would include features like teenaged
>motorcyclists and rock singers inside gigantic anthopomorphic robots
>attacking fleets of variable-geometry alien spaceships at visual ranges
>with guitar riffs and building-sized handguns, who respond with swarms of
>zig-zagging contact-detonation missiles. An interesting genre, to be sure,
>but not Traveller.

   And then there is more serious anime as well, some of which I could
easily see as being part of Traveller.  I was commenting on the *look* of
anime at any rate, not so much the "sterotypical storylines" that are pretty
much oriented at the under 21 crowd.  As far as the technology is concerned,
original, Traveller-oriented anime could easly be brought into line with
accepted canon (in whatever version of the game you use).

>Moreover, there are already real anime-style RPGs on the market with this
>kind of art and background. Frankly I think the games appeal to a different
>market.

   From what I've heard, none of them are very good (either they have
mechanical or plot flaws or both).  There is certainly some crossover
potential there if someone is willing to explore it.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:41:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Traveller Anime

"MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> No thanks. I don't really get on with the whole Anime thing - giant robots
> and all - despite the well-meaning efforts of certain of my deranged
> players.

I don't particularly like giant robots, either - so I avoid anime that
features them (I'm currently watching Neon Genesis Evangelion _despite_ the
giant robot mecha, rather than because of them).

On the other hand, there is some anime that I think has "travelleresque"
elements.  Take a look at:

Mighty Space Miners
My Youth in Arcadia
Be Forever Yamato
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
Laputa: Castle in the Sky 
Super Atragon
Wings of Honnemaise 
Crusher Joe
Lensman
Starship Troopers (*)

* There was a Starship Troopers OVA (Original Video Animation) a number
  of years ago that is a _LOT_ closer to what Heinlien wrote than the
  recent US live-action flick.  The same cannot be said for _Lensman_,
  which could best be described as loosely inspired by Doc Smiths' work.

Some of this stuff (Nausicaa, Laputa, Starship Troopers) is hard to impossible
to find in the US, and isn't available subtitled or dubbed.  Most of the rest
can be had relatively easily.

> Besides the building-sized handguns(!) etc, I'm fairly sure that the
> costumes depicted breach at least one of the Traveller 4 Prime Directives.

You're players are into Dirty Pair and the other 'battle bikini babes with
bug guns' stuff, aren't they?

> And besides, I find it a bit...'teen', don't you?

That all depends on what anime you're watching.  Personally, I prefer some
of the 'classics' of the genre, rather than the stuff that these kids who
think they've discovered anime are pushing today (My Youth in Arcadia and
the Yamato stuff is definitely 'classic' at this point).  Much anime
(including three of the titles I listed above) features teen protagonists,
however not all does.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 10:57:15 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [T97#2175] New IG Website

On 12/24/97 5:51 PM, Jeff Zeitlin said:

>>	Traveller Library Data (Traveller main page)
>>		Traveller News Service (TNS reprints, new news, if possible)
>>		Traveller Products (one page per product, includes cover, info, errata
>>link, possible review?)
>
>There is an important issue on reviews: If you are the "official
>voice", are you going to want/be permitted to have negative
>reviews?  Negative reviews (as for Starships) will have the
>effect of discouraging purchase; I could easily understand IG not
>wanting this to occur.  OTOH, if there are only positive reviews,
>the reviewers all risk being viewed as "bought and paid for"
>publicists for IG, and their comments will be discounted.
>
>Certainly, having reviews will be beneficial in that it will
>allow potential purchasers to make _informed_ decisions; on that
>basis, I support the idea of having reviews.  But that first
>issue is pertinent.

I think this issue can neatly be circumvented by not publishing reviews, 
but publishing links to other traveller fan sites and/or review pages.

Maybe Freelance can put up a reviews section . . .  ;-)

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 10:57:22 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Layout of charts and tables

On 12/27/97 1:25 AM, Harold D. Hale said:

>>IMHO the best format
>>layout for charts and tables is in a seperate book, the first time I saw
>>the charts at the back (PE IIRC) I saw it as an attempt to achieve that.
>>Photocopy the charts and see what I mean.
>
>   But by including the charts with the text at appropriate places, you
>avoid the need to flip back and forth *and* the need for a seperate book
>altogether.  To me, while this approach takes a bit more creativity, it
>is worth it because the results are easier to use and speed the learning
>process.

IMHO the best layout is (very) minimal text and lotsa tables in a 
suitably intuitive order for the actual design sequence. Gloss text and 
tech explainations are in a separate chapter.

To me, the ideal design rulebook would have the following outline:

1. Tech summary and explanation chapter
2. Design sequence "checklist"
3. Design tables, in sequence order, with a brief explanation of table 
entries below each.
4. Design "evaluation" chapter.
5. Design examples

I guess my ideal design incorporates both points of view! ;-) The tables 
are kept separate from the "gloss" (how fusion works, what a jumpdrive 
is, etc.), but a short summary is included so that the designer can 
recall if the tonnage is per weapon, per volume, or whatever...

I thought Brilliant Lances' Technical Booklet was pretty good (except for 
the Hull section, where critical calculations were buried in plain 
english in a long paragraph -- a short mathematical formula would have 
been better).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:41:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Traveller Anime

"MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> No thanks. I don't really get on with the whole Anime thing - giant robots
> and all - despite the well-meaning efforts of certain of my deranged
> players.

I don't particularly like giant robots, either - so I avoid anime that
features them (I'm currently watching Neon Genesis Evangelion _despite_ the
giant robot mecha, rather than because of them).

On the other hand, there is some anime that I think has "travelleresque"
elements.  Take a look at:

Mighty Space Miners
My Youth in Arcadia
Be Forever Yamato
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
Laputa: Castle in the Sky 
Super Atragon
Wings of Honnemaise 
Crusher Joe
Lensman
Starship Troopers (*)

* There was a Starship Troopers OVA (Original Video Animation) a number
  of years ago that is a _LOT_ closer to what Heinlien wrote than the
  recent US live-action flick.  The same cannot be said for _Lensman_,
  which could best be described as loosely inspired by Doc Smiths' work.

Some of this stuff (Nausicaa, Laputa, Starship Troopers) is hard to impossible
to find in the US, and isn't available subtitled or dubbed.  Most of the rest
can be had relatively easily.

> Besides the building-sized handguns(!) etc, I'm fairly sure that the
> costumes depicted breach at least one of the Traveller 4 Prime Directives.

You're players are into Dirty Pair and the other 'battle bikini babes with
bug guns' stuff, aren't they?

> And besides, I find it a bit...'teen', don't you?

That all depends on what anime you're watching.  Personally, I prefer some
of the 'classics' of the genre, rather than the stuff that these kids who
think they've discovered anime are pushing today (My Youth in Arcadia and
the Yamato stuff is definitely 'classic' at this point).  Much anime
(including three of the titles I listed above) features teen protagonists,
however not all does.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:19:39 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Santa's Sleigh

On Wednesday, 31 December 1997 09:48, Harold D. Hale
[SMTP:hdhale0@pop.uky.edu] wrote:
> 
>    Donner (or Donder) - Changed name after war to avoid prosecution on
>    war
> crimes charges.  Follows orders well.
 
Also tried to eat the rest of the reindeer, when trapped in a blizzard?


- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:36:59 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Query

At 12:23 AM 12/31/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>Subject: Coronation- done right.
>
>Hello,
>  Neat stuff - and official too! Did you do an equivalent HG
>work-up as well?

Haven't bothered.  It's been ten years since I designed anything with HG.


- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:17:16 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Another Imported Adventure

At 04:37 PM 12/30/97 EST, you wrote:

>  Speaking of Gamma World, has anyone here looked at (or even
>SEEN) the Amazing Engine version, "Metamorphosis Alpha to Omega"?
>I never saw this new, and only stumbled across a used one this
>week. Something about a ship 20km long gets my attention :)

Saw a copy of it on my FLGS' "buy it before we give it to Doug" shelf a few
months back.  sad, really.  They took one of the silliest games in history
and tried to make something coherent out of it.

Leafing through it did lead directly to our "Paranoia in Spaaaaccceeeee"
campaign.  The Computer is running the Wardn.  You REALLY don't want to go
Outside.  Really.

- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:23:55 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re:FAQ update

At 09:30 PM 12/30/97 -0600, you wrote:
>On 12/30/97 at 11:14 PM,  jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
>said:
>
>>(2) FAQ update

>>I have some questions that I need answered; I'd appreciate it if someone
>>could answer these for me.
>
>>(a) Who/What is BITS?
>
>British <mumble> Traveller <mumble> 

British Island Traveller Support 

>>(d) What other companies currently have Traveller licenses, and what have
>>they published?
>
>Don't know, and damn little!  Gold Rush Game *had* a licence and talked
>about a suppliment..did they ever publish it?

BITS/CORE

>>(e) Who owns the rights to old Traveller material published by [insert
>>company other than GDW - DGP, FASA, and Seeker come immediately to mind]?
>
>I'd guess, DGP, FASA, Seeker, Judges Guild.  Are Seeker and JG still in
>business?

I think Seeker got eaten by Chessex.  JG is long gone.

>>(f) What Traveller-related mailing lists are out there, and how do I join?
>>(I have full info for TML and TravLang; I need the rest.)
>
>Trav-tech and TNE-RCES are the only ones I know about. Send a post to:

>"TNE-RCES" listproc@tower.ml.org
>
>"Trav-Tech" trav-tech-request@qrc.com
>
>the body of each should be 
>
>HELP
>END

There's also the ISBA (ships and shipbuilding) 

>>(h) How far in advance are the moderated IRC discussions
>>scheduled, and how far in advance do we know the topic?

We rarely do announced topics anymore.. mostly it's just a get together
Thursday nights on the Undernet  (#Traveller)  show up!

- --
+--------------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry                 dberry@hooked.net   |
|             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/             |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given only to the efficient." |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, founder, German Imperial Army |
+--------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2188
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 31 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2189



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Traveller on Yahoo (was Traveller promotion ideas)
Re: Art Portfolio
Re: Realistic starship combat
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?
Re: Feelance Traveller redesign assistance
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Santa's Sleigh
Re: Sayat's Slay....
Formulas
What's in a name? (was:Re: GURPS Traveller)
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Feedback
Re: Horrible Realization
Re: Horrible Realization
Re: Traveller on Yahoo (was Traveller promotion ideas)
Anime

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:16:13 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Traveller on Yahoo (was Traveller promotion ideas)

Eris Reddoch wrote:

>And why are so few Traveller pages listed on Yahoo?  Is it because we have
>to fill out a form and *we* don't?

Not hardly.

I've submitted my page to Yahoo *at least* two dozen times, but I never get
a response. It appears that they just ignore submissions unless they are
for the higher traffic areas.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:02:23 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Art Portfolio

Eris said:

<<It's the difference between "art" and "illustration" that's really at 
issue here... but IMO, there is a major difference between artistic 
graphics and illustrative graphics...

Art is meant to *evoke* feelings and set a mood for the 
viewer...Illustrations should be clear, simple, and completely 
representative.  They should show as much of the object's form and 
function as possible.  Simple pen and ink images are good for this.  So 
are cut-aways and perspective views....>>

<snip>

<<Am I making sense here?>>

Eris makes perfect sense here and in my opinion has summed up the 
difference nicely.  The line drawings contained in some Traveller books 
give a good sense of form and function, as well as the scale.  I really 
appreciate them.  More of this would be a big help.  Then, those item's 
illustrations can be included in "artwork" for the mood setting.

Greg
The Count
MonteCristo@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:49:01 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Realistic starship combat

(Where did this come from, anyway? I missed the start of the thread.)

>Why not use a contraption like the Spacesuit Option, Heat Absorber (SCS p
>14)?  If such a device were scaled up and if we were to include Scale
>Efficiency (FF&S + see the note below) we would have the ability to absorb
>some serious Mw/turn of heat by pumping it into blocks of ice.

>Cumet   Heat/turn
>/Mass   Absorbed                Cost
>...
>005.000 00292.82 Mw         3,000,000 cr.


I don't have CSC, so I can't comment in detail on these heat absorbers,
but if they're what you imply (dumping heat into ice) they seem *way*
too effective (unless the "turn" is a 5-second combat turn, I suppose.)
5 tonnes of ice certainly won't absorb 300 megawatts for very long -
only a few seconds. 

FFS2 IR masking (and advanced and extreme masking) implicitly includes
a little bit of this sort of thing (big heat sinks) combined with
refrigeration in the hull and carefull arrangement of radiators; the
goal is to cool down almost all of the hull and radiate the waste heat
away in a narrow cone (at moderately unreasonable temperatures.) 
This, plus the Definitve Sensor Rules, are pretty realistic and give 
a good estimate of how far away you can hide. There was even some DSR
errata about pretending to be an asteroid...For almost all traveller
ships, as Shadow points out, internally generated heat completely
dominates over absorbed sunlight, to the point where absorbed
sunlight is neglected in the current draft of FFS2. (If you want to
include it, add 0.01 MW * surface area to all ship's generated power
for calculating signatures.) (It's 0.01 instead of 0.001 because
normal power plants are assumed (optimistically) to only lose 10% of
their power as waste heat.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:51:31 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

At 08:38 PM 12/30/97 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)eris@pen.net (Eris
Reddoch) wrote:
>snip<
>
>Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I & II, and
>Vehicles? Not to mention Copendium I and II!

Why not!, GURPS has Robots, Psionics, Martial Arts, and many other very
useful books that Traveller will never see the light of publishing. 

The entire basic system is seamless unlike the current and prior editions
of Traveller. It has only one design system, with useful additions unlike
the 4 plus that T4 currently has.

>Oh yes, will we all be switching to cubic yards, pounds and miles now?

But my spreadsheet can easily convert metric to English and back again.

>You know, I *almost* like GURPS.  If it wasn't for it's point based *only*
>chargen, overdependence on two attributes (IQ and DX), Minimaxer-prone
>advantages and disadvantages, and lack of a *real* Task System I could
>really get behind it.

I prefer a point based character generation system than the current T4 one.
As to the overdependence on two attributes  and Min/Maxing those are GM
issues not system issues. The current T4 does not have a *real* task system
either.

>So, oh great TML, how can GURPS be fixed?  Can we create a Traveller style
>method of Chargen for GURPS?  Can we find a way to add a couple of
>attributes (EDU and SOC at least!;-)?  Can we figure out how to tack an
>"honest to god" Task System onto GURPS old-fashion Success System?  [The
>Advantage/Disadvantage problem is something I figure I can handle on the GM
>level. ;->]

Unlike Traveller, GURPS does not need fixing, just errata for revision.  

>Inquiring minds want to know!

Ahh the Heretic seeks knowledge but is *clueless* where to begin.<G>

First one must go to the web sites that one must make an offering to the
Internet God Glitch! whose origins are shrouded in the mysteries of the
UNIX codes.

Go seek the enlightened web sites of Heretical One, they are out there for
the truly devoted ones who can use search tools.<G> But if you are lazy,
GURPS Imperium is good starting place.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:27:50 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?

Joseph Heck wrote:

>Go for a #FFFFFF white background. That's probably the biggest mistake I
>made in my pages, and I've yet to go through and re-org them to a
>different format. WHITE makes the pages look crisp and readable - like a
>good paper publication, and FT especially is going for display of
>content (over style).

I agree. I try to observe this maxim as much as possible. Though the front
page of my web site includes a starry background, 31k logo and small
graphical buttons in a lefthand frame, I try to use white backgrounds as
much as possible. They look crisp and professional unlike the default gray
backgrounds that make it look like the author was just lazy.

The white pages also make your site look like a Traveller book. Place small
illustrations where necessary *or* make larger illustrations accessible via
a link rather than forcefeeding visitors your images. That way, if they're
interested, they can click the link to get the illustration by itself. If
not, they don't have to wait umpteen minutes while their 28.8 modem chugs
along trying to eke out the illo. I use this method with the Starport area
of my site. I have several fairly large starship illustrations and deck
plans accessible only via link.

>Now I'll go into what I'd like FT to be - it may not fit with what you're
>looking for... I'd like to see an online publication, updated on a
>regular basis (every two months? monthly? quarterly?) with some good
>articles and adventures. House rules are interesting, but I'm usually not
>interested. I'm very interested in other people's adventures. It'd also
>be nice to see a regular column or two - maybe a column from the
>GreaHeads with some new rules/designs, and a column or article
>periodically from some of the writers around here (CORE folks?).
>Interviews are always interesting reading, and there's a number of folks
>around here to interview...

All Joseph's ideas are excellent. Especially the regular publication
schedule. However, getting submissions is difficult, I'm sure. The problem
is that your audience is web literate and most of them either have their
own web pages or they're planning on making one. Therefore, the chances of
them submitting their material to your site might not be good.

Perhaps you should contact IG and ask if they'll send you all the unused
JTAS submissions. I'll bet if you pumped some of them through an HTML
converter, you might get some great stuff.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:59:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Feelance Traveller redesign assistance

> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 21:00:40 -0600
> From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> 
> >I've temporarily halted work on the posted Freelance Traveller; I decided
> >that it needs a new look, and possibly a new structure. The problem I'm
> >having is that I can't decide exactly what I want; therefore, I'm looking
> >for ideas from a bunch of very creative and imaginative folks. 
> 
> "Well that lets *me* out.  I can go back to plotting the pirate attack on
> Beaman's Rift..."

Ummmmm...did I mention in my last PBEM post that I've taken to wearing
Kevlar underpants around the ship, and using an ACR as a walking stick? :)

> >(a) I'd like to get away from the black background.  The problem with
> >black backgrounds is that it takes light text to be readable - and if
> >someone decides to print the page to a color inkjet (the most common type
> >of printer in home use at present), it's going to look disgusting at best,
> >unreadable at worst.
> 
> <Whistles!  Cheers!  Much clapping of hands!> 
> 
> Give me a simple plain white or gray background with no patterns or fancy
> stuff..so call me an old fogey!  ;-> I want to be able to *read* the stuff. 
> BTW, something almost nobody does, but I wish they would is to make the
> same info that's on their html pages available as unformatted text files. 
> There are a lot of advantages to plain old ASCII text.

I absolutely agree.  However, there is a countervailing effect, that
light-text-on-dark-background sometimes hits just the right 'mood' (check
out print ads if you doubt this).  I faced this dilemma on my THUDDD site,
and finally decided to make the 'front' page (used mostly for statement of
purpose and navigation) light-on-dark, while all the (extremely)
content-heavy competition pages are dark-on-light.  I sacrificed a unified
"look and feel" for the site, but in the end I decided it was the right
approach.

The one remaining big hunk o' text on the front page is the rules...and
I'm planning on moving them onto a separate dark-on-light page of their
own in the near future.

> >(b) Much as I like some of the most recent technical innovations, such as
> >style sheets and DHTML, I can't in good conscience do things that depend
> >on them.  I tend to like to make pages that can be viewed by as wide a
> >range of browsers as possible; but even if I limit myself to Netscape and
> >Internet Explorer, there are enough old versions of each to make it
> >impractical to assume that they all support the latest technologies.  

Of course, the beauty of style sheets is that browsers that don't know
about them ignore them -- so you should seldom need to take backward
compatibility into account.  The price, of course, is that your pages end
up looking *very* bland to SS-unaware browsers, as most of the "prettying
up" stuff is in the SS.

> <Now the audience is standing on the chairs pounding their hands together
> and stomping their feet!>
> 
> I use NS/2 at home and it's still at the 2.02 level and NS 3.0 at work...so
> call me an old fogey, but I don't see any reason to move to Communicator or
> that M$ abomination!

<sneer> NS 2.02?  Why, sonny, when I'm *lazy* I use good ol' Lynx -- and a
backlevel version at that, without that there sissy sort-of table support!
Most times, I just telnet to port 80 and hand-enter the http headers,
parse it by eyeball...now *that* is surfing, young feller!

> >(c) I would prefer to avoid being heavy on graphics or embedded files,
> >including Java applets.  My ISP's home page is
> >chock-a-block with graphics and animations and Java applets; the damn
> >thing takes an unconscionably long time to load over a 28.8 connection. 
> >The whole world ain't on 56K or better, yet.  

At the very least...

(a) Don't use *any* Java just for "gimmick value," and
(b) Put any useful Java apps on their own page with a descriptive link
    leading to them ("Beware of Java!").  That way those of us on slow
    links or with machines that routinely choke on unfamiliar Java can
    avoid the apps.

> Java applets and graphics have their place, an important one, but there's
> too much glitz for glitz sake out and about on the web.  Keep you pages
> clean, simple and fast, Fast, FAST!

Amen, brother.  As a rough guide, 100 K is the absolute outside edge of
what a total page size should be, and that's *if* you've given image
dimensions so all the text can render first.  50 K is a better routine
ceiling.

> >Glitz that either increases the informational content or increases the
> >_professionalism_ of the look is OK.
> 
> Then it's not glitz, it's information.

True on information content, false on 'professionalism'.  A certain amount
of purely decorative material (logos, fancy separator bars, etc.) can add
to the user experience without conveying 'information' per se (beyond a
McLuhanesque 'I am a spiffy site'. :)). 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:17:07 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Tue, 30 Dec 97 20:38:27 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>Retorical questions..

Well, I'll adress them anyway!!!

>Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I & II, and
>Vehicles? Not to mention Copendium I and II!

I depends a bit.  I wrote my GURPS Traveller article with
just Basic and a little out of Space (which I could have
skipped).  One can play with just the article and Basic.
OTOH, Space, Vehicles, and UltraTech are handly if
you like supplements.

>You know, I *almost* like GURPS.  If it wasn't for it's point based *only*
>chargen

Well, you could always have the PCs roll, off the top of
my head, 8+d6 for each stat.  Then you could assign
each skill and advantage to one or more services and
have the players roll (again off the top of my head)
for an attribute increase, advantage, or raising
a few skills a couple of levels.  (Or maybe have
them roll until they gain, say, 10 points in a
chosen catagory per term).

>Can we find a way to add a couple of
>attributes (EDU and SOC at least!;-)?

You can add whatever you want.  Telling people how they can
use systems went out with EGG.  Note: Status (the equivalent
of SOC) does exist in GURPS, it just exists as an advantage.
(you start at Status 0 and buy up or down).  You can easily
add an Education advantage (I did in my GURPS Traveller article)

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:23:36 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:56:28 -0600, "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
> >From someone involved in the GURPS conversions, I learned that they will go
> with the English system.  They think that it is very Travelleresque
> (although how they came to this conclusion I'll never know)

It was based on the fact that CT did use miles some (hence the
planet size codes being what they were) and the fact that it
used such non-metric volume units as tons of displaced hydrogen.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 08:02:59 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Richard Fields <rfields@actrix.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh

In TML 2185 Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net> wrote off handedly,

<snip>
>    Ahhh... scratch and sniff.  Careful: you're dating yourself here :).
>>   Hm...  but why stop at reindeer?  Just bioengineer batwings onto
>>>them, plus the above mods, and you could not only get flying pigs, but
>>>rocket-propelled flying pigs.
<snip>

Isn't easier to tweak the existing genetic structures, reduce the pig's
(or elephant's) overall size but increase and airfoil the ear size and
cartilage structures. Add a modified cellulose digesting/methane producing
bacteria to the gut. Then feed liberally on licorice and hay.
The genetech required is only edit-DNA, you are using med(gene)tech with
theory developed at TL7, prototyped at TL8, and viable at TL9.

Regards
R.Fields
New Zealand, a small group of islands south west of California.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:52:33 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Sayat's Slay....

Greg Smith wrote:

>Oh, sorry about that.  I mistook Santa's Sleigh for that very famous and
>oft banned documentary:  Sayat's Slay...  ;->

Well, they're both bright red, after all. But one shouldn't leap to the
wrong conclusions: Santa's definitely no communist.  Look at all those elfs
in the offshore sweatshops he owns.  Hell, he's one of the leading
union-busting patriarchal petty-bourgeoise pigs, bloated with the
expropriated wealth of the working classes!

Not at all comparable with the Sayat children's fable about packs of little
flying prairie squid with glowing red eyes who, during the the darkest,
coldest night of the year, creep out to mischievously redistribute Junior
Miss Sniper Rifles (tm) and molecular biology textbooks more equally among
the children of Marhach.  That the kids leave out offerings of reindeer
milk and cigarettes is a pure coincidence.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:12:20 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Formulas

Hello Marc,
  First off, I would like to apologize for not responding sooner.  Part of
it had to do with the fact I was stricken with a flu like bug that lodged
in my intestines - causing some blood loss (Hemhorroids) that scared my
healthcare organization (subsequently scaring me!) plus a full month with
diareahh.  Consequently, I have not been "thinking" about programming much.
 Right now, I feel ashamed that I didn't respond to your cheerful
willingness to help with a thank you sooner than this, so, if it is not too
late to redeem myself in your eyes, I can at least rectifiy my ommision of
manners and let you know that I was taught better than that <grin>.
  In any case, I wish to mention as well, that I am very much looking
forward to GURPS TRAVELLER, and hope that it permits people to enjoy the
best of both your world system plus the background of the Imperium, along
with the GURPS world system.  I spoke with a gentleman on the list
privately, regarding the matter of the dice and half dice system, and was
told that you intended to clean up the "statistics" aspect of the dice with
regards to T4 (now to become T4.1), and I hope very much that you enjoy the
process.  If I have been overly critical in the past of the traveller
mechanism, it is with the understanding that what makes me happy doesn't
mean it is "universal" in that it should be how things are <god, I hope I
am not that arrogant!>.

  Ok, off the top of my head, I have the formula that Luminosity is
directly a function of comparison to the SOL's energy output.  If I recall
correctly, I have the formula (100^.2)^(4.85-absolute magnitude of target
star) with 4.85 being the absolute magnitude of the Sol.  Stellar Mass is
(if I recall correctly, since I am not sure where I put my notes, and right
now, the only set I know for sure is at work!) something to the effect of
luminosity^1/3.5.

  What I was hoping to do, is generate a variable eccentricity value for
planets in my random generation program, and then use the formula in WORLD
TAMERS HANDBOOK for calculating the temperature variances on a given planet
based on it's distance from the primary.  This would include the night time
temperature variances along with latitude variances as per the rules in
that book.

  Hmmm, what else can I recall off the top of my head?  Ah yes, in another
gaming suppliment from FGU (name eludes me at this point, but it was a
brown two book set) lists the ability of planets to be a Hydrogen based
atmosphere as being based on the planet's mass plus distance from primary
along with the primary's luminosity.  When I checked the formula for use
against the values listed in 2300 AD, not once did it fail to give me
values where the mass of the planet ect determined the retained molecular
weight as that of a Gas Giant in your tables.  It also gave me a system to
determine when a planet would be a Desert planet due to the fact that the
retained molecular value would not permit water vapor to exist.  Oddly
enough, it seems (I didn't check it as carefully as I did the Hydrogen
part) to agree with what your table in 2300 AD does...

  I finally (like real recently) discovered how to calculate the stellar
radius of stars based upon a ratio formula that takes into account Sol's
luminosity value, target star's luminosity value, plus a few other odds and
ends.  As you might guess, it is my hope that if I ever release the
"universe generator" over the net, that it have a wide range of
applications.  The first of which includes the ever fun "100 diameters"
limit for use with Traveller <grin>.

  A few thoughts from my end...

  One of the things I discovered while doing research for my program, is
that the spectral class M stars are not capable of radiating in the visible
light spectrum.  This precludes having planets in the M class systems with
photosysnthesis based oxyegen production.  I know it's too late to change
this from "canon" Traveller based products <grin>, but I would like to make
my program as "true" as possible to realism as I can generate.

  All in all, I want to take this moment to say to you that I enjoyed
Classical Traveller very much, and to this day, I still retain most of the
basic Classical stuff.  I retain the 3 black books, the High Guard,
Mercenary, Scouts, Merchants, along with some of the JTAS of the early
timeperiod.  I hunted until I could get my hands on STRIKER, and loved it
for what it was - on fine minitures system!  I also own a copy of the
basics for Megatraveller, along with FF&S and TNE.  I have since purchased
T4, Milleu Zero, as well as T4's version of FF&S.  I think two things,
actually 3 things has precluded my gaming group from using the T4 system.
The first off, is that we use GURPS for our main vehicle of choice for
roleplaying.  The second reason, is the way the T4 books came out (I bet
you are really tired of hearing that one, and I commiserate with you on
it).  The third reason is the mechanics of the skill systems were not as
well detailed as the GURPS, and that the progression of difficulty on a
statistical level didn't make sense.  While a novel concept, as a group
that used the T4 system for about 3 months, we discovered that it was
possible for characters with suffiently high enough stats (but not GODLY)
to be able to pull off successful "IMPOSSIBLE" stunts with alarming frequency.
  Those three things were mainly responsible for the T4 system to fall into
disfavor with our group.  However, once we heard that GURPS was licensed to
produce Traveller products, the group has since clamoured for a return
to... THE IMPERIUM (long may it live) <grin>.

  Well, I have bent your ear long enough.  Thanks for listening, and again,
I feel badly I have not written before this.  Take care, and I hope your
New Year is happy one.  My regards to you and your family...

      respectfully,
        Hal Carmer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 20:26 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: What's in a name? (was:Re: GURPS Traveller)

In-Reply-To: <4e93ac4.34aa6f9d@aol.com>

CardSharks,

> So is Gurps Traveller going to be based on the historical novel of the
>  same name about (and written from the first person perspective of)
>  Robert E Lee's horse of the same name ?
>    >> 
>  
> When Traveller was first announced in 1977, some one at SPI asked right away
> "Is this about American Civil War battles?"

Roleplaying guru and CS Lewis fan Andrew Rilstone used to edit a fanzine 
called Aslan, and was forever having to explain that no, it was *not* a 
Traveller 'zine...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 20:26 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

In-Reply-To: <v03110703b0cf705b166b@[207.220.32.141]>

Zane,

> The ship's though are rougher, they're non-jump capable I'd say, but
> Battlestar Galactica was always pretty vague about the ship specs, and
> distances traveled.

Everything was very small (the standard unit of distance was the 
micron...)

BBC2 is repeating BG at the moment. It's even worse than I remembered.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 20:26 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Feedback

In-Reply-To: <71d6a7f2.34a713fe@aol.com>

Kagehira,

> <Boulton: What we were promised - discount, magazine, also .maybe the
> Imperial title/land grant idea that was bounced around, or the chance to
> playtest future products.> Can you refresh my memory on the Imperial title/
> landgrant idea (I vaguely remember it, just not the details)?

The basic idea was that people would be able to buy, or could win in 
competitions, or be granted 'for services to Traveller', Imperial Noble 
titles.

eg
$50 might get you a knighthood
running a game at a con might get you the same

Most titles also come with some land (entire planets or even subsectors for 
higher titles), which become the official property of the player. The owners 
are encouraged to submit write-ups for publication. They can also interact 
with each other, in a kind of enormous PE game, with any important events 
being reported in JTAS.

A coordinator will be required to look after this.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:07:09 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Horrible Realization

Roderick Wrote:

> 	Human reflexes are an amazing thing.  Before I realized what was
> happening, I was standing back up and reopening my eyes, with Suzanne
> looking at me with a horrified expression.  As it happens, I think that
the
> fireball missed most of my face.  I didn't get so much as a single
> first-degree burn, and my eyebrows are mostly intact; I only had the hair
> on the front and temples kinda singed.  If I brush my hair forwards it
> probably won't even show.
> 
> 	Hope your Xmases were as exciting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
> 
Might I suggest a PGMP or FGMP. Not only can you bag the bird, but you can
clean it, dress it, and cook it in one fell swoop...err, shot (no pun
intended). Think of the efficiency this item would bring as a kitchen
aid...and at a safe distance to!

	Have a Happy and "safe" Holiday!

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:07:09 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Horrible Realization

Roderick Wrote:

> 	Human reflexes are an amazing thing.  Before I realized what was
> happening, I was standing back up and reopening my eyes, with Suzanne
> looking at me with a horrified expression.  As it happens, I think that
the
> fireball missed most of my face.  I didn't get so much as a single
> first-degree burn, and my eyebrows are mostly intact; I only had the hair
> on the front and temples kinda singed.  If I brush my hair forwards it
> probably won't even show.
> 
> 	Hope your Xmases were as exciting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>
> 
Might I suggest a PGMP or FGMP. Not only can you bag the bird, but you can
clean it, dress it, and cook it in one fell swoop...err, shot (no pun
intended). Think of the efficiency this item would bring as a kitchen
aid...and at a safe distance to!

	Have a Happy and "safe" Holiday!

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:20:52 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller on Yahoo (was Traveller promotion ideas)

At 10:16 31/12/97 -0700, Chris Griffen wrote:
>I've submitted my page to Yahoo *at least* two dozen times, but I never get
>a response. It appears that they just ignore submissions unless they are
>for the higher traffic areas.
>
	Write an email to them, and they will put it on after a short while.


	See ya...

Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:00:06 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Anime

MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
said, WRT: Anime Art?

> No thanks. I don't really get on with the whole Anime thing 
<deletions>
> So: No anime please, we're British.

Anime is a perfectly good art form, but I have never been able to work up much
of an interest in it (none at all, if you want the truth). GDW used several
artists who had clearly been influenced by anime styles (head too large on
proportion to the body, eyes too big for the face -- to name two), but some of
them improved over time.

Loren

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2189
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 31 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 2190



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Prime Directives?
Re:FAQ update
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Oops!
Re: Traveller Art
The Sire in the Shower!
Re: Layout of charts and tables
Re: Heretical GURPS Traveller stuff
Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?
Re: Traveller on Yahoo
Re: Feedback
Santa's Sleigh
Re: Feedback
Traveller PBM / PBEM
Re: Layout of charts and tables
Re: What's in a name? (was:Re: GURPS Traveller)
Re: Import it into Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:20:15 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Prime Directives?

Newbie here,

Can anyone tell me what are the 4  Prime Directives of Traveller?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 15:44:08 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re:FAQ update

On 12/31/97 at 09:23 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>>(f) What Traveller-related mailing lists are out there, and how do I join?
>>>(I have full info for TML and TravLang; I need the rest.)
>>
>>Trav-tech and TNE-RCES are the only ones I know about. Send a post to:

>>"TNE-RCES" listproc@tower.ml.org
>>
>>"Trav-Tech" trav-tech-request@qrc.com
>>
>>the body of each should be 
>>
>>HELP
>>END

>There's also the ISBA (ships and shipbuilding) 

Darn it! That's right, and I'm on both ISBA lists too. ;->

BTW, I suggested HELP, rather than subscribe, because IMO you should always
get the help (and probably) the info file before actually subscribing. 
That way you have a better idea of whether you *really* wan to join and you
have instructions on how to unsubscribe right off the bat.

Eris,
    happy new year everybody!
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 16:52:07 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

On 12/30/97 at 10:46 PM,  "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com> said:

>>Retorical questions..
>>
>>Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I & II, and
>>Vehicles? Not to mention Copendium I and II!

>This might be a Retorical question, but I can't let it pass.  What makes
>you _THINK_ that you will need these?  

Sheeze, Zane!  Don't get your trousers in a twist, I was only half
serious..if that. 

I've always been of the opinion that you don't need *any* books to run a
rpg, but they can sure be useful.  Ok, I'll answer your objections as
seriously as I can on New Year's Eve. ;->

I think the GURPS Traveller book is going to be much more a setting book
than a supplement..from what I've read, anyway.  The rules, equipment,
vehicles, and technology is going to be as much GURPS as possible.  I could
be wrong, and it doesn't matter either way. 

>Take a look at GURPS Lensman for example, it's a Space setting, but it
>doen't need or even want GURPS Space. 

Can't, it's out of print.  [Sorry, couldn't help myself] ;-> 

Hey, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't expect SJG to port FFS (or even HG) over
to GURPS Traveller or put a new simplified system in the book.  I expect
they'll point the reader to Vehicles, Space and maybe FFS if you want
spaceships, other vehicles or equipment.  Don't you think SJG wants to sell
us all a copy of Space, Vehicles, and a few dozen more of their books? 
You, of course, don't *have* to buy them, but I think SJG really wants you
to desire them.  Not, that there's anything wrong with that!

>As for EDU and SOC, do you really need attributes for this, isn't this in
>reality an advantage or disadvantage?  OK, actually I guess it's a combo
>of Attribute/Advantage/Disadvantage.

I'd dump SOC as an attribute if I was designing any rpg.  Hum, well in a
class oriented society like the Imperium it *does* have its place, just not
as an attribute.  I don't like the way GURPS handles Advantages &
Disadvantages..like the concept, not the implementation, but that's a
different subject.

I disagree about dropping EDU, though.  We probably disagree on what EDU is
measuring.  I use it as the "scholarship" attribute in a group of four
mental attributes (REAsoning, EDUcation, CHArisma, WILl) that match up with
the four physical attributes (STRength, CONstitution, DEXterity, AGiLity). 
Remember, I'm a heretic and I always do things my own way.  ;->

>One thing I'm really hoping for is that they keep our Tech Levels as the
>GURPS Tech Levels seem a bit odd when talking about Traveller.

I don't like the implementation of either TL (surprise! surprise!).  Both
need to have more steps, spreading out the details...so there!

>I'd too would like to see the Metric system continued, but unfortunately I
>suspect it will end up with yards, pounds, etc.  This is one thing, that
>isn't _really that important_ in the great scheme of things for Traveller,
>but could really mess up even the Basic GURPS rules.

You know what?  I don't care very much either way, but I suspect our non-US
members may.  The yard/pound/gallon is great for human scale descriptions
(if you know the scale), but not for designing equipment or vehicles. 
[It's just that measuring a ship in cubic yards *feels* unnatural.] There
are conversions floating around to handle this anyway. One place everybody
is going to have to be careful is the usage of Ton, though, now we'll have
at least *four* different Tons..sigh!

>Face it, GURPS Traveller IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD!  

Sheeze!  There you go again.  I *said* I liked GURPS..really! ;->

I know we're getting close to the millennium, but I don't think any SJG
product, even In Nomine, is going to bring about the end of the world. Nor
the end of Traveller, for that matter.

>Give it a chance, it might end up saving Traveller.  

Ah, a pox on all you doomsayers!  Traveller isn't in danger of
disappearing.  Even if it where completely out of publication, it would
live on as long as we talk about and play games we call Traveller.  I'm not
going to stop that if IG goes out of business or even if SJG gets raided
again and the MIB run off with the only GURPS-Traveller manuscript (or it's
printed and bites big chunks -- as unlikely as *that* is)!  

Are you?  No?  So, lighten up and stop talking about Traveller like it's on
it's death bed.  I expect it to outlive us all.

IMO, YMMV, SOTR, GNMCWYA, and FNORD!

Now, go out and have a happy new year,

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 17:17:36 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

On 12/31/97 at 02:17 AM,  Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> said:

>eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)  - whose relationship to the Discordian Godess
>has never been explained to my satisfaction - wrote

Hee!  Hee!  It's never been explained to my satisfaction either.  I was
named for my great Uncle Eris, one of several male Eris' in the Gibson
family tree, going back at least 200 years.  How it got started, I have no
idea.  I rather suspect it has *nothing* to do with the Mother of Mars and
everything to do with a variant spelling of Eric.  I *do* use my name as an
excuse for my discordant nature..works great. ;->

>So is Gurps Traveller going to be based on the historical novel of the
>same name about (and written from the first person perspective of) Robert
>E Lee's horse of the same name ?

The second most famous horse in American history.  I'm sure Trigger comes
in first. 
 
>> Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I 

>I assume you mean Ultra Tech 1 2nd Ed.

>> & [Ulta Tech} II, and Vehicles?

>I assume you mean Vehicles 2nd Ed.

Now you're being picky! ;->

>> Not to mention Compendium I and II!

>Need no, want yes.  

As I posted earlier!  Desire, crave, sell youngest child for...but not
need. ;->

>A true GURPS Traveller referee will also need Gurps Illuminati to
>reflect the truth about the illuminated Third Imperium, its Templar
>inhabitants, and their secret master Cthul, er Grandfather.

Yeah, but not until the next edition when the Templars, Hivers, and
GrandDad are included.

>Gurps Aliens, High Tech, Psionics, and Robots are also good.

>Other items that might of some use include Gurps Bestiary, Religion,
>Horror, Lensmen [for a starkly astonishing 3rd Imperium], The Prisoner
>[OP], Space Bestiary [OP], Special Ops [OP], Supers 2nd Ed, Swashbucklers
>2nd Ed, Terradyne [OP], Uplift [OP] and a dozen or so more : )

What did I tell you guys?  GURPS is like potato chips, "No one can eat just
one!"...oh, is that where BURPS comes from?

>> Oh yes, will we all be switching to cubic yards, pounds and miles now?

>Some GURPS products have used non English systems in the past (although
>none lately) I hope Gurps Traveller will be one of them.

Seriously, doubt it.  I hear the Imperial system will be used for the
Imperial setting.  

Say, why don't we just pretend that yards were extended by about 9%...now a
yard=meter, 36 inches=meter, and 4800yards=1mile?  A pound was reduced by
10%..now 2pounds=1kg, 16ounces=1kg, and 1ton=1ton. Liquid measures work out
pretty good too.
 
>>  Can we figure out how to tack an
>> "honest to god" Task System onto GURPS old-fashion Success System? 

>Maybe.

That's the big one for me!  So, do tell..how do we do it?

>Advantages & disadvantages are one of my favorite parts of Gurps charecter
>generation & are something I have always wanted to see in Traveller.

The thing I don't like about Ads/Disads is how they affect character points
during chargen.  I simply don't like "balanced characters" as a concept, I
prefer random ones.  That makes me different from your average GURPSian,
but so be it.  I *do* like the ad/disad concept to give character to
characters, though.

>> Eris,
>>     who really likes GURPS...really! ;->

>So what is the difference between someone who "really likes
>GURPS...really" and somone who merely "really likes GURPS" or one who
>"likes GURPS...really" ?

I'll never tell! ;->

>Is this like the old Tom Lehrer line about the man who, while in college,
>"Majored in Animal Husbandry, until they caught him at it." ?

FNORDyesFNORD!

Eris,
    yes it's really my name!
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:31:37 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Oops!

Hello Folks,
  The formulas post was mistakenly sent to this list when it should have
been sent to Mr Miller as a private missive.
  I apologize for having made such a mistake and am embarassed by it.
<DURNED CONFUSING TECHNOLOGY!> <grin>.

  Oh well, until I goof this bad another time...


       Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:07:55 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Traveller Art

Richard Hough wrote:
[snip]
> would include features like teenaged
>motorcyclists and rock singers inside gigantic anthopomorphic robots
>attacking fleets of variable-geometry alien spaceships at visual ranges
>with guitar riffs and building-sized handguns, who respond with swarms of
>zig-zagging contact-detonation missiles.

Ah, the preferred style of Famille Spofulam's court portraitists?


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 17:47:04 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: The Sire in the Shower!

On 12/31/97 at 11:14 AM,  Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said:

>Eris seems to have gotten his characters mixed up a little by the way: 
>that'd be Strephon stepping out of the shower.

Ok! Ok! So shoot me! ;->

You must admit it *would* be interesting if it was Cleon stepping out of
the shower, though. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 17:57:02 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Layout of charts and tables

On 12/31/97 at 10:57 AM,  Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> said:

>To me, the ideal design rulebook would have the following outline:

>1. Tech summary and explanation chapter
>2. Design sequence "checklist"
>3. Design tables, in sequence order, with a brief explanation of table 
>entries below each.
>4. Design "evaluation" chapter.
>5. Design examples

Looks like a winner to me!

>I guess my ideal design incorporates both points of view! ;-) The tables 
>are kept separate from the "gloss" (how fusion works, what a jumpdrive 
>is, etc.), but a short summary is included so that the designer can 
>recall if the tonnage is per weapon, per volume, or whatever...

>I thought Brilliant Lances' Technical Booklet was pretty good (except for 
>the Hull section, where critical calculations were buried in plain 
>english in a long paragraph -- a short mathematical formula would have 
>been better).

This is something I've said over and over. I hate any kind of calculation
to be buried in the middle of text. When I need that calculation I want it
to stand out. Make the descriptions sidebars, and do the design sequences
inline with formula and tables.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 18:07:18 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Heretical GURPS Traveller stuff

On 12/31/97 at 11:23 AM,  "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net> said:

>No game system is perfect, and a lot of this comes down to a matter of
>taste.

Yeah, but, for the games I server, I insist on being the cook, you know
season to taste! ;->
 
>Education is purely a function of how many skill points the character has
>and what level certain skills are at. if he has an 18 in Biochem, then he
>probably has a Master's in it. SOC is an Advantage called "Status". The
>Emperor would be about Status 7 or 8, I believe.

That's Education, but only ONE way of looking at an EDU stat.  I've already
posted my thinking on SOC and EDU, so I won't repeat myself.

>This is SOLELY my opinion, but I absolutely hate random generation of
>characters. 

And I really like the basic ideas behind the way Traveller generates
characters, call it semi-random.  

>I wouldn't mind seeing a background generation aide similar to
>Fuzion's lifepath, that tells what the character did in his careers, and
>maybe some important events, but I really think GURPS Traveller characters
>should be built according to the player's wishes (with LOTS of GM input
>and use of the Magic Word where appropriate). That's how we did it in the
>GURPS Traveller (way unofficial Net version) that I ran, and everyone
>involved loved their characters and had a great time. 

Not that they might not have "loved their characters and had a great time"
if their characters had been generated right out of CT, right? ;->  

I never said point-based design, the GURPS way, was wrong, bad, or evil. I
just said I would prefer there to be more than *one* way to generate the
characters, and that one of those ways was more similar to the Advanced CT
method.

>GURPS is not Traveller, systemwise at least and it does not need to be. YMMV.

Allen, Traveller isn't Traveller..unless you specify the version..for most
of us. So, how could GURPS be. ;->  You fellows don't seriously expect *me*
to play any game as written do you?  That would be..<shudder>..unnatural!


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:44:22 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?

At 11:14 PM 12/30/97 GMT, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>(1) Freelance Traveller redesign assistance.

I can summarize all of my feelings with one organizational suggestion.

Your main page should have pretty basic HTML, preferably without frames, as
I find few people can do a frames-based page that comes across
successfully.  If Lynx can handle it well, then you have that section
architectured well.

Place all the DHTML, SCC, Java, Frames, and so on on a different page, in a
different tree.

If you are generating the HTML dynamically, then it shouldn't be too hard
to keep the two in sync.  If you are doing it by hand, this might be a
problem.

In either event, I strongly encourage all authors to note that there are
people who find IE4 and NS4 so terribly feature bloated that we use the old
versions by choice, and that we often want the goodies on your pages.
Also, I am quite capable of setting font choices in my browser, and if you
choose to use frames to force how I will see your page, then the font
choices I make for maximum reading comprehension will become
counterproductive.

(I like my monitor at a very high resolution with large font sizes, as I
have poor eyesight, but I like crisp graphics.  Programs where I can view
at 200%, or can change the default font, often work better.  Most browsers
are very good at this, unless frames are used to artificially limit the
size of some graphical elements.)

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:51:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller on Yahoo

> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:16:13 -0700
> From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
> 
> Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> >And why are so few Traveller pages listed on Yahoo?  Is it because we have
> >to fill out a form and *we* don't?
> 
> Not hardly.
> 
> I've submitted my page to Yahoo *at least* two dozen times, but I never get
> a response. It appears that they just ignore submissions unless they are
> for the higher traffic areas.

Inspired by Eris's question, I submitted THUDDD's site to Yahoo this
morning.  I'll let the list know what comes of it...

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:15:54 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Feedback

> eg
> $50 might get you a knighthood
> running a game at a con might get you the same
> 
> Most titles also come with some land (entire planets or even subsectors for 
> higher titles), which become the official property of the player. The owners 
> are encouraged to submit write-ups for publication. They can also interact 
> with each other, in a kind of enormous PE game, with any important events 
> being reported in JTAS.
> 
> A coordinator will be required to look after this.

Hey that sounds pretty cool.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:41:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Santa's Sleigh

On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Traveller-digest wrote:

> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:42:15 -0600
> From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
> Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh
> 
> > From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
> > 
> > Hmmmm, Someone wrote;
> > >>other reindeer are also representative of specific ship's sub-systems
> > >>(with their
> > >>names being mnemonics for function, perhaps).
> > >
> > >   Dasher, Dancer, Donner, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, and Blitzen.
> > >There seem to be an awful lot of 'D's there...someone else want to take
> > >a crack at it?
[snip]
> 
> BTW, I note that Donner is duplicated in the listing above.  Anyone out
> there know the name of the 8th Reindeer?

   Rudolph?


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:13:04 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Feedback

At 08:26 PM 12/31/97 GMT0, you wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <71d6a7f2.34a713fe@aol.com>

>The basic idea was that people would be able to buy, or could win in 
>competitions, or be granted 'for services to Traveller', Imperial Noble 
>titles.
>
>eg
>$50 might get you a knighthood

Bill Clinton is the Emperor?????
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:20:12 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Traveller PBM / PBEM

Press Release
January 1, 1998

Juggernaut Press Acquires Traveller Play-by-Mail License

Development Begun on Traveller PBM: Emperors of the Flag

Juggernaut Press and SweetPea Entertainment have concluded a letter of intent
regarding the exclusive play-by-mail license for Traveller, Marc Millers
classic science-fiction role-playing game.
According to Bob McLain, owner of Juggernaut Press, work has begun on the
first Traveller PBM game, Emperors of the Flag, a strategic-level play-by-mail
game set in the Civil War era of the rich Traveller universe. The game is
expected to enter beta test in late summer 1998. The 15-20 players in each
computer-run game will vie for imperial power and notoriety using space and
ground forces, a network of characters, and intense politics. Among the main
features:
 a custom set-up process, almost a game in itself, where players will make
tough choices designing their own positions through the allocation of scarce
resources
 a starship construction system based on blueprints which allow players to
design unique ships or purchase existing models from a common registry
 a universe populated with useful, dangerous, and even strange characters,
each with unique talents and flaws, who can be hired or captured by players
 a non-linear path to victory giving equal opportunity for players who prefer
to pursue goals of conquest, economic growth, discovery, or adventure
 a combat system with wide scope for players to control both the strategic
and tactical aspects of battle in space and on the ground, and incorporating a
huge number of unit types
Traveller PBM will be available by post and by email. Turn reports will be
laser printed (or, in the case of email play, sent in .pdf format) and will
include narrative and statistical results, custom maps, and charts.
Juggernaut Press has established a mailing list where veteran PBM and
Traveller players can lend their expertise to the development of the game and
keep an eye on its progress. To join the list, send email to <traveller-list-
request@tightbeam.com> with the single word subscribe in the body of the
email.



For more information, contact:
Juggernaut Press
PO Box 288
Hawley, PA 18428
(717) 226-5179
info@gamesbymail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:29:24 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Layout of charts and tables

In a message dated 97-12-31 14:09:09 EST, you write:

<<IMHO the best layout is (very) minimal text and lotsa tables in a 
 suitably intuitive order for the actual design sequence. Gloss text and 
 tech explainations are in a separate chapter.  >>

I echo your sentiments. Most people who have seen the draft T4.1 character
generation material have had no difficulty understanding it, even though the
material is ALL charts with no accompanying text.

The problem is this this: the current method for writing role-playing material
(Traveller, others) is to start at the beginning and follow a stream of
consciousness through to the end, much like writing a novel. That includes
ship design, which starts with the hull and then proceeds to the drives,
weaponry, and accomodations., etc.

As a player, I read the material once, and then turn to the charts when I need
to know answers. If I need detailed answers, I may reread the text.

What I want as a player is to be able to turn to the charts and understand
them and what is required of me. Read the T4.0 charts for space combat and
tell me you understand how to do the process. What does A P J mean (for one
example)?

Similarly, space combat pre-supposes the player knows how ships are built. And
ship building pre-supposes the player knows what equipment and weapons do.

The ideal format is a set of charts that walks the player through the process,
defining or explaining any items that need explaining. If combat ranges are
involved, the chart should be included, even if the data is already provided
elsewhere.

What this involves is the WRITER laying out the charts in final format, as
charts in two or three column format, and then playing with them to ensure
that they work. THEN, the WRITER needs to create the proper forms for
recording the material, and checklists that carry the player through the
process.

Conclusion. Charts should be separate. Some tables may need to be also in the
text to explain or elaborate on the text, but also in the chart set.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:34:42 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: What's in a name? (was:Re: GURPS Traveller)

In a message dated 97-12-31 18:47:20 EST, you write:

<< Roleplaying guru and CS Lewis fan Andrew Rilstone used to edit a fanzine 
 called Aslan, and was forever having to explain that no, it was *not* a 
 Traveller 'zine...
  >>

Why was that?
BTW, one of my favorite free traders was the "Dawn Treader." None of my
players got it.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:22:31 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Import it into Traveller

VargrA8C7A wrote:

>   About using other games' adventures in Traveller.
> I have used stuff from GDW's 2300 AD game.  Their modules are
> very compatible with Traveller.  I also liked the Kafers(spider-like humanoid
> race)
> and am using them in my campaign.

I use modules from other games as well--Space Opera, Gamma World, T2300.

I'm using the Kafers in my campaign as well.  The big K's are being used by the
Zhodani in a prelude to the FFW.  I just had this huge encounter with the K's,
where the PC's are deputized by the local Marine detachment (4 guys, a doc, and a
commander) to investigate "unknown aliens" attacking a scientific research
station deep outsystem.

It was a blast (pardon the pun), and the PC's have had their first taste of this
game's Alien/Predator/Terminator type bad guys.

They couldn't believe what it took to take out one of these guys.  And, at the
end of the game, when they found out that the Kafers were "uplifted" from TL 0 to
their current TL by use of Zhodani psionic techiniques, everybody was agast.

They found out that, before the Zhodani found them, the Kafers were in a cave-man
like state (given their Int problems).  The Zhos used psionics to communicate
with them, gave them technology, taught them how to use it, and now they are a
Gem'Hadar like force used by the Zhodani Consulate.

Better yet, the Imperium has never heard of them.  They come from somewhere
outside the Spinward Marches towards Zhodani space.

It was an encouter (actually several encounters) that we all had great fun with.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2190
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
